bladefist
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Post by bladefist on Sept 2, 2021 23:18:19 GMT
MEA didn't age at all, Bioware killed it.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 3, 2021 1:07:55 GMT
I think she is xenophobic/bigoted even if she isn't outright racist. That's not why I dislike her though, I dislike her because she isn't smart and doesn't see the bigger picture. For example in ME2 she is so clouded by her hatred of Cerberus that she refuses to acknowledge the threat of the collectors (the same people who abducted the colonists she was supposed to protect and the same group who almost abducted her if not for Shepards rescue). Instead of being grateful she comes across as very judgemental, even insulting in the way she addresses shepard 'I would never turn my back on the alliance' I remember Garrus being in my party and after the 3rd time of her saying 'how can I trust you Shepard'. Garrus intervenes and says she is letting her emotions cloud her judgement and that Shepard is not aligned with Cerberus but merely trying to rescue human colonies that are being attacked. This stupidity spills over in the 3rd game where she again tries to link the Cerberus attack on Mars to Shepard (more than once). If you can't trust someone then stop following them! The biggest issue for me though was how easily she was used by Udina (the man she said she hated and insinuated she would never trust). She didn't hesitate to point her gun at Shepard (the guy who literally saved her in all 3 games and specifically against Cerberus in the last game). These weren't Ashley things. These were Virmire Survivor things. If you take what you know of Ash in ME1 and assume that her behavior in ME2 and ME3 is linked, then you'd be wrong. Kaidan is exactly the same. It's bad writing.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 3, 2021 1:10:36 GMT
MEA didn't age at all, Bioware killed it. Dead accurate. ME1 spawned two more games. It also had two DLC, even if they weren't extensive. MEA got nothing and I think it hurt the game even more for having one DLC become a novel and other major subplots completely abandoned. It's hard to believe anyone could trust BioWare to do right by anything Andromeda-related.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Sept 3, 2021 4:28:02 GMT
I think she is xenophobic/bigoted even if she isn't outright racist. That's not why I dislike her though, I dislike her because she isn't smart and doesn't see the bigger picture. For example in ME2 she is so clouded by her hatred of Cerberus that she refuses to acknowledge the threat of the collectors (the same people who abducted the colonists she was supposed to protect and the same group who almost abducted her if not for Shepards rescue). Instead of being grateful she comes across as very judgemental, even insulting in the way she addresses shepard 'I would never turn my back on the alliance' I remember Garrus being in my party and after the 3rd time of her saying 'how can I trust you Shepard'. Garrus intervenes and says she is letting her emotions cloud her judgement and that Shepard is not aligned with Cerberus but merely trying to rescue human colonies that are being attacked. This stupidity spills over in the 3rd game where she again tries to link the Cerberus attack on Mars to Shepard (more than once). If you can't trust someone then stop following them! The biggest issue for me though was how easily she was used by Udina (the man she said she hated and insinuated she would never trust). She didn't hesitate to point her gun at Shepard (the guy who literally saved her in all 3 games and specifically against Cerberus in the last game). These weren't Ashley things. These were Virmire Survivor things. If you take what you know of Ash in ME1 and assume that her behavior in ME2 and ME3 is linked, then you'd be wrong. Kaidan is exactly the same. It's bad writing.Right, thats what I said in a followup response, essentially you have reworded what I said 🙂. She is a very limited character if you simply judge her on ME1 and throw away what she became in ME2/3.
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 3, 2021 16:38:41 GMT
She did to me. Eventually my opinion changed. I was just trying to express a POV. I'm sure you know lots of people hate her because they call her racist. I don't think racism is anywhere near as prevalent in ME1 as the writer of the article seems to think. Sure, we've got an anti-alien group and Cerberus (which is presented as bad). "You humans are all racist." I don't think the writer really thought through how close to the First Contact War the game is set. I think she is xenophobic/bigoted even if she isn't outright racist. That's not why I dislike her though, I dislike her because she isn't smart and doesn't see the bigger picture. For example in ME2 she is so clouded by her hatred of Cerberus that she refuses to acknowledge the threat of the collectors (the same people who abducted the colonists she was supposed to protect and the same group who almost abducted her if not for Shepards rescue). Instead of being grateful she comes across as very judgemental, even insulting in the way she addresses shepard 'I would never turn my back on the alliance' I remember Garrus being in my party and after the 3rd time of her saying 'how can I trust you Shepard'. Garrus intervenes and says she is letting her emotions cloud her judgement and that Shepard is not aligned with Cerberus but merely trying to rescue human colonies that are being attacked. This stupidity spills over in the 3rd game where she again tries to link the Cerberus attack on Mars to Shepard (more than once). If you can't trust someone then stop following them! The biggest issue for me though was how easily she was used by Udina (the man she said she hated and insinuated she would never trust). She didn't hesitate to point her gun at Shepard (the guy who literally saved her in all 3 games and specifically against Cerberus in the last game). I was so tempted to kill her even though I was doing a paragon run, ended up choosing the renegade option to get her to back down then refused to have her on my ship I do agree that Ash is not supposed to be the smartest or most intellectual person in the roster of characters. I don't think she's supposed to be particularly dumb or anything but ultimately, she is one of the grunts (as in ground soldiers, no pun intended ).
However, I wouldn't use her interactions with Shepard in ME2 as evidence for that. As was said before, this can and must really be chalked up ot bad writing. Why? Because Kaidan in ME1 and 3 is clearly portrayed as a very intelligent and thoughtful man (a bit too much so, if you ask me ). Yet, he has almost the exact same reaction as Ash on Horizon. The entire Horizon dialogue is just lazily and badly written. Shepard's responses (no matter which ones you choose) are not much better than A/K's part. IMO, despite some options that sound fairly convincing on the dialogue wheel, the actual lines Shepard gets to say and how s/he gets to say them are not getting their point across at all.
So yea, kinda agree with you on Ash being more the "average Jane" kinda girl but the ME2 dialogue is a whole different matter.
EDIT: Ok, I just saw that this was already brought up multiple times in the mean time. Now I feel redundant.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Sept 3, 2021 19:26:28 GMT
I think she is xenophobic/bigoted even if she isn't outright racist. That's not why I dislike her though, I dislike her because she isn't smart and doesn't see the bigger picture. For example in ME2 she is so clouded by her hatred of Cerberus that she refuses to acknowledge the threat of the collectors (the same people who abducted the colonists she was supposed to protect and the same group who almost abducted her if not for Shepards rescue). Instead of being grateful she comes across as very judgemental, even insulting in the way she addresses shepard 'I would never turn my back on the alliance' I remember Garrus being in my party and after the 3rd time of her saying 'how can I trust you Shepard'. Garrus intervenes and says she is letting her emotions cloud her judgement and that Shepard is not aligned with Cerberus but merely trying to rescue human colonies that are being attacked. This stupidity spills over in the 3rd game where she again tries to link the Cerberus attack on Mars to Shepard (more than once). If you can't trust someone then stop following them! The biggest issue for me though was how easily she was used by Udina (the man she said she hated and insinuated she would never trust). She didn't hesitate to point her gun at Shepard (the guy who literally saved her in all 3 games and specifically against Cerberus in the last game). I was so tempted to kill her even though I was doing a paragon run, ended up choosing the renegade option to get her to back down then refused to have her on my ship I do agree that Ash is not supposed to be the smartest or most intellectual person in the roster of characters. I don't think she's supposed to be particularly dumb or anything but ultimately, she is one of the grunts (as in ground soldiers, no pun intended ).
However, I wouldn't use her interactions with Shepard in ME2 as evidence for that. As was said before, this can and must really be chalked up ot bad writing. Why? Because Kaidan in ME1 and 3 is clearly portrayed as a very intelligent and thoughtful man (a bit too much so, if you ask me ). Yet, he has almost the exact same reaction as Ash on Horizon. The entire Horizon dialogue is just lazily and badly written. Shepard's responses (no matter which ones you choose) are not much better than A/K's part. IMO, despite soe options that sound fairly convincing on the dialogue wheel, the actually lines Shepard gets to say and how s/he gets to say them are not getting their point across at all.
So yea, kinda agree with you on Ash being more the "average Jane" kinda girl but the ME2 dialogue is whole different matter.
EDIT: Ok, I just saw that this was already brought up multiple times in the mean time. Now I feel redundant. Echo 🤣 no worries. I'm glad were all in agreement that its bad writing
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 3, 2021 20:08:54 GMT
IMO, despite soe options that sound fairly convincing on the dialogue wheel, the actually lines Shepard gets to say and how s/he gets to say them are not getting their point across at all. That's very clear. If the dialogue matched the chosen lines then it would have made much more sense. Imagine is Shepard outright said, "I hate these guys and everything they stand for. The problem is that the Alliance ignores me and the Council said it's outside of their jurisdiction. Should I ignore the Collectors? Or should I make a temporary alliance with Cerberus? I'd feel a lot safer having to work with them if you had my back." Lengthy, yes, but it could be reworded to get the point across. If we still couldn't get A/K, have them say "I understand. I'll do what I can to help you from my side. Equally stupid is that A/K was given no information by the time ME3 rolled around. Anderson, who had contact with Shepard, really couldn't have told A/K that Shepard is not and was never a traitor? He wouldn't have to give details but that should have been sufficient to put the mind of A/K at ease and avoid the stuff on Mars and, especially, when the new human Spectre was trying to protect the Council. Bad bad bad writing.
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 3, 2021 20:20:39 GMT
IMO, despite soe options that sound fairly convincing on the dialogue wheel, the actually lines Shepard gets to say and how s/he gets to say them are not getting their point across at all. That's very clear. If the dialogue matched the chosen lines then it would have made much more sense. Imagine is Shepard outright said, "I hate these guys and everything they stand for. The problem is that the Alliance ignores me and the Council said it's outside of their jurisdiction. Should I ignore the Collectors? Or should I make a temporary alliance with Cerberus? I'd feel a lot safer having to work with them if you had my back." Lengthy, yes, but it could be reworded to get the point across. If we still couldn't get A/K, have them say "I understand. I'll do what I can to help you from my side. Equally stupid is that A/K was given no information by the time ME3 rolled around. Anderson, who had contact with Shepard, really couldn't have told A/K that Shepard is not and was never a traitor? He wouldn't have to give details but that only should have been sufficient to out the mind of A/K at ease and avoid the stuff on Mars and, especially, when the new human Spectre was trying to protect the Council. Bad bad bad writing. Exactly! From what was on the wheel, I was fully expecting Shepard to say exactly what you wrote in the paragon option and maybe add that the Normandy is fully under her/his autonomous command, which is a condition for continued cooperation. The funny thing is, Shepard can say basically exactly that to Tali when you recruit her (and I think something similar also to Garrus).
But well, I think even the writers themselves admitted that they messed that one up. It happens.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2021 0:30:52 GMT
IMO, despite soe options that sound fairly convincing on the dialogue wheel, the actually lines Shepard gets to say and how s/he gets to say them are not getting their point across at all. That's very clear. If the dialogue matched the chosen lines then it would have made much more sense. Imagine is Shepard outright said, "I hate these guys and everything they stand for. The problem is that the Alliance ignores me and the Council said it's outside of their jurisdiction. Should I ignore the Collectors? Or should I make a temporary alliance with Cerberus? I'd feel a lot safer having to work with them if you had my back." Lengthy, yes, but it could be reworded to get the point across. If we still couldn't get A/K, have them say "I understand. I'll do what I can to help you from my side. Equally stupid is that A/K was given no information by the time ME3 rolled around. Anderson, who had contact with Shepard, really couldn't have told A/K that Shepard is not and was never a traitor? He wouldn't have to give details but that should have been sufficient to put the mind of A/K at ease and avoid the stuff on Mars and, especially, when the new human Spectre was trying to protect the Council. Bad bad bad writing. Imagine if Shepard gave a more in-your-face response? There is 3 times in the trilogy where A/K and Shepard have bad writing moments. The first one will be Dumb vs Dumber Part One On Horizon, A/K turn stupid when hearing the word Cerberus ignoring the fact that colonists have been taken by the collectors who are not Cerberus. Shepard responds with a lame excuse at best. Shepard: WHAT? CALL ME A TRAITOR? (Shepard smacks A/K with an uppercut to the head knocking A/K to the ground, then slams his/her knee into A/K's sterum) Listen up you piece of crap. You want to talk about traitors? Lets take a look at the circus of clowns you call Alliance. I was at the sight where the SR1 remains are. I gathered dogtags from the fallen. I found my helmet at the sight. Obviously someone found my body. What did your circus find? ****. Because they made no attempt to locating the crash site. And according to king clown Anderscum, they thought I was dead without making any effort to confirm my death. I'm working with, note the word with, not for, Cerberus to stop the collectors. They have given me resources and a ship. Would your circus have done that? One last thing. That king clown Anderscum also told me it was up to me to find a way to stop the reapers. He never cared, the rest of the circus of clowns never cared. As far as I'm concerned, **** off. Now, go back and tell that to your precious circus of clowns. On Mars, there's another bad writing scenario. This is known as Dumb vs Dumber Part 2 Once inside the building, A/K get all huffy-puffy asking why Cerberus is there. At best, Shepard can have a....harsh, if one wants to call it that, response. Shepard: Not this crap again. Listen up dumba**. I've been locked up for 6 months doing nothing. Why didn't you come by to see me? You get a promotion, for whatever reason, without me knowing until a short time ago. You can ask meathead here that I had no contact with Cerberus or anyone in the last 6 months. And you know what? Your circus of clowns didn't do anything to finding a way to stop the reapers. Even the king clown Anderscum said for me to find a way to help them stop the reapers after he told me it's up to me to find a way to stop the reapers when I was dealing with the collectors. As a suggestions. Think before you say something. Otherwise I will use my needle and thread to sew your mouth shut. To the final writing of bad, Dumb vs Dumber Part 3 The coup. The whole mission was crap. The standoff between A/K and Shepard was, yeah, sure, whatever. I understand A/K pointing their weapon at Shepard at the beginning, but after a couple of seconds it wasn't necessary. At the same time, I would have Shepard lower their weapon right away since there was no threat. Udina mentioning Shepard is working with Cerberus should have set off alarm bells in their head. Shepard: If I were working with Cerberus, then why are both squadmates with me? On Mars they attacked for no reason. I have been gathering resources to help build a device to stop the reapers. And unless you're Clint Eastwood, you are outgunned. Shoot me, one of the squadmates would shoot you. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Post by talyn82 on Sept 5, 2021 5:17:58 GMT
That's very clear. If the dialogue matched the chosen lines then it would have made much more sense. Imagine is Shepard outright said, "I hate these guys and everything they stand for. The problem is that the Alliance ignores me and the Council said it's outside of their jurisdiction. Should I ignore the Collectors? Or should I make a temporary alliance with Cerberus? I'd feel a lot safer having to work with them if you had my back." Lengthy, yes, but it could be reworded to get the point across. If we still couldn't get A/K, have them say "I understand. I'll do what I can to help you from my side. Equally stupid is that A/K was given no information by the time ME3 rolled around. Anderson, who had contact with Shepard, really couldn't have told A/K that Shepard is not and was never a traitor? He wouldn't have to give details but that should have been sufficient to put the mind of A/K at ease and avoid the stuff on Mars and, especially, when the new human Spectre was trying to protect the Council. Bad bad bad writing. Imagine if Shepard gave a more in-your-face response? There is 3 times in the trilogy where A/K and Shepard have bad writing moments. The first one will be Dumb vs Dumber Part One On Horizon, A/K turn stupid when hearing the word Cerberus ignoring the fact that colonists have been taken by the collectors who are not Cerberus. Shepard responds with a lame excuse at best. Shepard: WHAT? CALL ME A TRAITOR? (Shepard smacks A/K with an uppercut to the head knocking A/K to the ground, then slams his/her knee into A/K's sterum) Listen up you piece of crap. You want to talk about traitors? Lets take a look at the circus of clowns you call Alliance. I was at the sight where the SR1 remains are. I gathered dogtags from the fallen. I found my helmet at the sight. Obviously someone found my body. What did your circus find? ****. Because they made no attempt to locating the crash site. And according to king clown Anderscum, they thought I was dead without making any effort to confirm my death. I'm working with, note the word with, not for, Cerberus to stop the collectors. They have given me resources and a ship. Would your circus have done that? One last thing. That king clown Anderscum also told me it was up to me to find a way to stop the reapers. He never cared, the rest of the circus of clowns never cared. As far as I'm concerned, **** off. Now, go back and tell that to your precious circus of clowns. On Mars, there's another bad writing scenario. This is known as Dumb vs Dumber Part 2 Once inside the building, A/K get all huffy-puffy asking why Cerberus is there. At best, Shepard can have a....harsh, if one wants to call it that, response. Shepard: Not this crap again. Listen up dumba**. I've been locked up for 6 months doing nothing. Why didn't you come by to see me? You get a promotion, for whatever reason, without me knowing until a short time ago. You can ask meathead here that I had no contact with Cerberus or anyone in the last 6 months. And you know what? Your circus of clowns didn't do anything to finding a way to stop the reapers. Even the king clown Anderscum said for me to find a way to help them stop the reapers after he told me it's up to me to find a way to stop the reapers when I was dealing with the collectors. As a suggestions. Think before you say something. Otherwise I will use my needle and thread to sew your mouth shut. To the final writing of bad, Dumb vs Dumber Part 3 The coup. The whole mission was crap. The standoff between A/K and Shepard was, yeah, sure, whatever. I understand A/K pointing their weapon at Shepard at the beginning, but after a couple of seconds it wasn't necessary. At the same time, I would have Shepard lower their weapon right away since there was no threat. Udina mentioning Shepard is working with Cerberus should have set off alarm bells in their head. Shepard: If I were working with Cerberus, then why are both squadmates with me? On Mars they attacked for no reason. I have been gathering resources to help build a device to stop the reapers. And unless you're Clint Eastwood, you are outgunned. Shoot me, one of the squadmates would shoot you. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Damn, that was beautiful. I read all that with BroShep's voice in my head. Wish BioWare had the balls to do something like this. If Shepard can smack around the reporter on the Citadel, why can't he smack around A/K?
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Post by Spectr61 on Sept 13, 2021 0:42:17 GMT
Big, gigantic azz and udders are just that, gigantically off-putting. Only for those with mommy issues...... Listen, as a person that has seen that video with JLo and ... Izzy Aglaea? Agalea? Whatever. Big tits and a big ass do mesmerize people. Not just men, people, in general. Jack is fairly flat and lacking in curves, as 13 year old me. But Jack is sexy, first and foremost, because of how she carries herself. She doesn't have to have a pornstar body to haunt people's fantasies. Although it doesn't hurt. Hey — There are lots of skinny porn stars! I wouldn’t know personally of course, but I’ve been told……
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Post by ergates on Oct 18, 2021 12:43:11 GMT
What ME1 did wrong:
It's combat was dated in 2007.
The Mako sucks.
The morality system limits role play.
The dialogue is horrible.
The story is awful.
Saren sucks as a villain.
The uncharted planets are repetitive, boring and lifeless.
The side quests are just useless and annoying side quests (that pay off in a joke side quest in ME3 if Conrad lives).
The inventory system sucks.
The weapons and armor mods are useless pieces of crap with no real benefits.
The heating system sucks. I can't work out whether or not this is one of those 'edge lord' kind of posts - people who get a kick out of slating a popular thing most people love... or it's a serious opinion post.
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Post by obbie1984 on Oct 18, 2021 15:07:45 GMT
I get the feeling MEA will feel more dated in 2027 than ME1 did when it was 10 years old. Though there are a lot of dated aspects in ME1, it still does far more right than MEA did right with better technology and hardware. The only positive of MEA is Cora to me. Its nice to have a kind, calm, and professional love interest that is mostly drama free.
I also agree with Ash/Kaidan stuff. They had a lot of bad writing throughout. Most of it just existed for contrived drama. It's weird they wrote them like this but characters like Garrus and Liara are so amiable. This continues into ME3. At the very least, Kaidan is improved as a character into ME3 where as Ash felt useless all around.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 18:50:26 GMT
Seeing this thread just makes me sad, that there are fans out there who hate ME1 and Love MEA is fine, but comparing a fourteen year old game to a four year old game and declaring the former aged worse than the latter is hardly the basis for a good-faith argument. Even when just accounting for basic factors like budgets, technological developments and market trends such a comparison would be completely meaningless.
Honestly, it would be commendable if MEA's most zealous defenders would just accept that the critical and popular reception of ME1 (or all the trilogy, for that matter) was measurably higher than the reception to Andromeda. Again, offering select critique and praise of any game is well accepted and necessary in a healthy fan community. As is giving opinions that are contrary to popular perception, yet what I don't comprehend is insinuating that said perceptions do not exist at all, or that the perceptions are still up for debate when they clearly aren't.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 18, 2021 19:19:33 GMT
Seeing this thread just makes me sad, that there are fans out there who hate ME1 and Love MEA is fine, but comparing a fourteen year old game to a four year old game and declaring the former aged worse than the latter is hardly the basis for a good-faith argument. Even when just accounting for basic factors like budgets, technological developments and market trends such a comparison would be completely meaningless. Honestly, it would be commendable if MEA's most zealous defenders would just accept that the critical and popular reception of ME1 (or all the trilogy, for that matter) was measurably higher than the reception to Andromeda. Again, offering select critique and praise of any game is well accepted and necessary in a healthy fan community. As is giving opinions that are contrary to popular perception, yet what I don't comprehend is insinuating that said perceptions do not exist at all, or that the perceptions are still up for debate when they clearly aren't. I think most players do. The article to me screamed "This is about BioWare click me... click me." I have a very low opinion on places like The Escapist because they seem to make articles to create some buzz so people will go there and click on the articles and comment about it. Its one of the biggest reasons why I stopped visiting it years ago and then shortly after they relaunched.
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kotoreffect3
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jan 12, 2022 5:16:21 GMT
ME1 had complete quest lines, a squad the player could customize and actually issue orders to in combat via the power wheel. It also had DLC support and successfully setup two sequels. ME1 wins.
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