LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 29, 2021 11:24:18 GMT
I just wish we'd had been given unique specializations as compared to the companions, like in DAO and DA2. In DAO specs were not unique though - companions had the same since they teach you. Others, like Blood Magic, Duelist - might be called "unique" since no other companion had them. Only in the end you still can give your companions the same specs. Or you meant something else? In DA2 they were unique indeed. Mind Templar (as Carver has it) and Force Mage (Beth). But others? That was really great. Companions were unique, Hawke was unique. DA2 wins in terms of "unique". The question is - how Hawke could learn them. And DAO (sort of) and DAI included that part, but not in the best way. That's kinda what I meant, yeah... I know all of the companions had a certain specialization, but you could still be unique if you grabbed one none of the others had (which is what I tend to do) for example, you can have Champion and Reaver as a Warrior (or Templar for the former if you decide to kick out Alistair for Loghain later on), Duelist and Ranger as a Rogue and Arcane Warrior & Blood Mage as a Mage, in Awakening you also have one unique specialization for each of the classes (Guardian, Shadow and Battlemage respectively)
According to the wikia, all of the companions in DA2 have a mix of certain specializations...for example Fenris' specialization borrows from Spirit Warrior and Berserker, Anders borrows from Reaver and Spirit Healer etc. as to how Hawke learns them, some of the specializations give clues as to how Hawke could've learned them. For example, the Shadow (rogue specialization) says the following: my current Hawke is a rogue who joined Athenril in the prologue, so in my head canon one of the smugglers in Athenril's gang taught her how to be a Shadow. Similarly for a Force Mage I head canon that Malcolm (Hawke's dad) used to be one as well, and taught his child(eren) how to be one, as for Duelist...well, Isabela taught them of course. As for templar...depending on what side you pick for Carver, he was either taught legally how to be a Templar upon joining the order, or a former Templar taught him when he joined the Grey Wardens (in a similar fashion as to how Alistair can teach us in DAO). A Templar Hawke might be a bit more difficult, but according to the in-game description for the specialization Kirkwall has it's share of Templar deserters who might teach someone for a price. (I personally always cheat in Carver and Bethany's specializations so they have access to them during Act 1 as well)
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Post by Sonya on Aug 29, 2021 11:44:42 GMT
According to the wikia, all of the companions in DA2 have a mix of certain specializations...for example Fenris' specialization borrows from Spirit Warrior and Berserker, Anders borrows from Reaver and Spirit Healer etc. Yes, that was interesting to notice. Fenris was the first in my PT to notice that: three Hawke - warrior specs are included - Spirit Pulse (FF though as the Templar has) + magic resist - Reaver as has more speed after enemy dies - Bers as has more STA regen after killing an enemy Anders is A Spirit Healer and A Blood mage. -- What I find indeed unique among companions specs is Merrill. She is a Blood Mage, though a Dalish Blood mage which works differently. Setting up tactics for her to make everything work is a bit tricky. But after that she is a real beast. as to how Hawke learns them, some of the specializations give clues as to how Hawke could've learned them. Those are good explanations. Too bad they remain "clues" and just given to us.
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legbamel
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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XBL Gamertag: Legbamel
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Post by legbamel on Aug 29, 2021 11:59:02 GMT
It would have been better in DAI if they had used Skyhold as the sole location of things to find, encouraging you to explore every nook and cranny. A sort of scavenger hunt would have been fun and much quicker than trying to figure out where in Thedas that particular item dropped, maybe.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 30, 2021 0:26:27 GMT
Fetching items wasn't a great idea. I'm personally more in favor of the Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm plan: I get to take the specialization on a test drive and see if that's what I want. That is a great idea.
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Black Magic Ritual
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Samus Aran, your heart is fine <3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Aug 30, 2021 13:50:41 GMT
I liked it best when they were weaved into the narrative like DAO i.e. the Blood Magic with the demon or the reavers with Kolgrim and the cultists. Going and collecting stuff to get it in DAI just made it feel a bit lackluster in comparison.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 30, 2021 15:54:21 GMT
I liked how in the Might and Magic games you basically had the same thing, as promotion quests. Like a Knight would become a Cavalier, a Paladin would become a Crusader etc. And then, you'd get a second promotion quest. They were fun quests.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 30, 2021 18:17:35 GMT
I liked it best when they were weaved into the narrative like DAO i.e. the Blood Magic with the demon or the reavers with Kolgrim and the cultists. These two specs are well-presented, look logical and would like to add Duelist to this list since other specs are either manuals or teachers in the camp. But there is one downside in DAO with Blood Magic - I have to play a mage to learn that art (not talking about manual in DAA since it is not weaved into narrative). Such restriction was a really bad idea.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 30, 2021 18:26:38 GMT
But there is one downside in DAO with Blood Magic - I have to play a mage to learn that art Surely that does make it more realistic. I mean Wynne would never willingly learn blood magic and Morrigan might have been warned off it by Flemeth, so it makes sense that you have to learn it for yourself from a demon. Then by DAA you are experienced enough that perhaps you can just work it out from a book. As for having to be a mage, why would a demon want to do a deal with a non-mage? What use would you have for it? I've already explained why neither of the mages in your party would voluntarily turn to blood magic but might if the idea was sold to them by a fellow mage who was capable of teaching them.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 30, 2021 18:46:50 GMT
Surely that does make it more realistic. I mean Wynne would never willingly learn blood magic and Morrigan might have been warned off it by Flemeth, so it makes sense that you have to learn it for yourself from a demon. Then by DAA you are experienced enough that perhaps you can just work it out from a book. As for having to be a mage, why would a demon want to do a deal with a non-mage? What use would you have for it? I've already explained why neither of the mages in your party would voluntarily turn to blood magic but might if the idea was sold to them by a fellow mage who was capable of teaching them. Do not deny, it is realistic. What I am talking about: it is inconvenient for me as a player who is not interested in playing a mage but might try doing it at some point using Blood Magic. I have to wait and wait that plot quest playing already annoying for me class - a mage. Realistic? Of course. Inconvenient way to get it (as some DAI ingredients)? Yes. -- How else to learn that art? There might be some other options (not manual, but weaved into the plot), but it is what it is in DAO.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 30, 2021 18:59:45 GMT
How else to learn that art? There might be some other options (not manual, but weaved into the plot), but it is what it is in DAO. Well they could have had you find a tome whilst you were snooping around in the Circle Tower. You find a codex in Irving's Room saying that he removed the books on blood magic from the library to there, so they could have let one of them actually be the instruction manual on blood magic. That would have effectively weaved it into the plot. Then if you had no use for it, you could have sold it on but you would have had the option to open up the blood mage specialism without being a mage, through the simple expedient of giving it to the relevant companion. I still prefer the way it was done in DAO to DAI.
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Aug 31, 2021 8:21:12 GMT
Well...
A major problem is needing a guide to properly play the game.
DAO explained or hinted at how to obtain certain specializations either through companions or through key plot characters.
DA2 just plain gave specializations for free without explaining why but the truth is that related quests were planned but canned due to rushed development.
DAI has certain enemies spawn on certain areas with the itens you need but never tells you about it. There are three Venatori Rifters on the Exalted Plains, three piles of Nevarran Skulls on the Storm Coast and three Pure Wisps on the Fallow Mire. The wiki guide gives an exact location but how the devs were supposed to tell us about them in game remains a mistery.
I believe that specializations should have quests which tie them into the story which is also why in my ideal DA4 they are given to you after major plot decisions.
Plotwise in DA4 we are being sought by the former Inquisition because we exceed in a field of sorts and that should mean we get at least one specialization from the start.
There should be between four to six specializations for each class to choose from but limited to a total of three for the main character and two for all companions.
We should choose one specialization per act of the game while our companions start with one specialization but unlock a second depending on choices made on their loyalty missions.
This is a decent way to tie your character uniqueness to the plot instead of doing resource farming.
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Post by adonniel on Aug 31, 2021 15:02:29 GMT
In general, I like the idea of doing a quest to obtain a specialization. However, in Inquisition the quality of those quests was one of the worst types of quests you can get. I always loathed quests that require you to kill random mobs in the middle of random nowhere to maybe have a random chance of obtaining a required item that may or may not drop. This is a complete waste of time. No grinding on random mobs quests please. Even the shard collections are better because at least you see them pinged on a map and you can travel to a specific location where you're guaranteed to get one.
In most of my Inq runs I didn't even do spec because it was too annoying. It's called waste time - filler quests and games should avoid them.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 31, 2021 17:29:23 GMT
Most of what I'm seeing here is people not like the fetch quest aspect of these quests, along with the item rng involved and lack of presentation.
I didnt dislike the idea of having trainers and quests for specialization. It makes sense. How would you learn this shit on your own without proper guidance? There needs to be better interactivity and quest development to make these types of quests shine IMO. For example, if Templar training involved some notable minigames to get you to learn how to dispel magic, or imbibe lyrium "safely", I think those could have served as better means of grounding you in your specialization.
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 8, 2021 20:18:48 GMT
I think some of the main quests in Origins had the right *starting* idea, when you unlocked Specializations in choices you already had. For example, you got Champion by rallying the defense of Redcliffe, Blood Mage from Connor's Desire Demon, and Reaver by besting a gauntlet of foes and drinking dragon blood.
In retrospect, I think it would have made more sense if we unlocked Templar from Gregoir, since "The Broken Circle" involved saving and/or killing mages. Or if Master Ignacio gave us tips on being better Assassins. Hell, even though the Wood Elf Ranger is a tired cliche, I think it would'be been better to learn Ranger from the Dalish or Werewolves, rather than just a book.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 8, 2021 20:33:28 GMT
I think some of the main quests in Origins had the right *starting* idea, when you unlocked Specializations in choices you already had. For example, you got Champion by rallying the defense of Redcliffe, Blood Mage from Connor's Desire Demon, and Reaver by besting a gauntlet of foes and drinking dragon blood. In retrospect, I think it would have made more sense if we unlocked Templar from Gregoir, since "The Broken Circle" involved saving and/or killing mages. Or if Master Ignacio gave us tips on being better Assassins. Hell, even though the Wood Elf Ranger is a tired cliche, I think it would'be been better to learn Ranger from the Dalish or Werewolves, rather than just a book. We also got Arcane Warrior from that spirit vile thing in the Brecillian Forest which wasn't really tied to anything.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 9, 2021 2:34:59 GMT
I liked DA2's basic idea: Giving your companions a unique spin on things made them more individual. But I want a minor quest. Not a fetch quest. A small dungeon to plunder.
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ergates
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by ergates on Oct 19, 2021 11:13:12 GMT
The way I see it trainers are there to train, not to say:
'Go out and find umpteen nug spleens from around the world, and oh yeah... most nugs don't have them, only certain, super-rare, randomly encountered nugs have spleens... get back to me and you'll know all about rift magic. Right, off you go...."
It reminds me of one of those teachers who couldn't be bothered to draw up a lesson plan, and just just creates a load of make-work for the students to kill time until the lesson period is over.
So my solution would be to keep trainers, but have them actually train you in a meaningful manner - i.e. when learning archery you begin with target dummies, and move on to actually using a bow in combat. That kind of thing.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 19, 2021 11:29:20 GMT
Some dudes arrived, offering career opportunities. There was little info given. I remember having to reload when my pick is not what I wanted. I usually dont bother, but that is too big an impact to leave up to chance.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 19, 2021 11:46:08 GMT
I dont remember specialisations in DAO. Only in DAI. DA2 I didnt play that far.
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Post by Vall on Oct 30, 2021 13:33:53 GMT
Given the specialisations are in many cases character defining (especially ones like AW/KE, Reaver, or Blood Mage), I think we should pick them in character creation (or at the lastest at like lvl 3), with companions having their own unique/mixed ones, and then have it be a point of reactivity in the main story. I always use mods in DAI, or console commands in DA2 and DAO to add specialisations early because it just makes sense to me that you would've started on the path, instead of just randomly picking it up and becoming proficient in them in the middle of everything else.
You could then have you could then have specialisation quests that are specifically tied to what the specialisation is good at, and maybe unlocking some special skill within the tree (maybe specialisation within specialisation?), and furthering the connection between it and the character you're playing. It should also probably be tied to the main story somehow.
Maybe Arcane Warrior goes searching for some ancient elven blade said to bind to the user, allowing them to better blend their martial and magical arts, and in the process meets spirits who put them through a trial that tests their martial and arcane prowess to make sure they are worthy. And maybe they get a unique path through a quest because an elven keeper recognises the blade you're wielding. Or an Assassin takes on a contract to kill someone main story, and gets into some conflict with Crows or w/e.
Maybe if we wanted to keep the dual specialisation aspect of DAO/DA2, we could possibly have a quest later in the game, where we get stuck in the main plot and need to get more powerful for some reason, that would lead you to seek out lesser version of another specialisation, that would allow you to get a section of their powers, but only that since you've not been using them for long. Perhaps in the vein of Warden Blood powers in DAO, some of the powers could change based on your primary specialisation, like going from Necromancer to Blood Mage would allow you to cause explosion of blood from your raised minions, while Arcane Warrior would get access to blood enhanced melee attacks, and both would get access to using their health pool instead of mana.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2021 8:05:08 GMT
Maybe Arcane Warrior goes searching for some ancient elven blade said to bind to the user, allowing them to better blend their martial and magical arts, and in the process meets spirits who put them through a trial that tests their martial and arcane prowess to make sure they are worthy. And maybe they get a unique path through a quest because an elven keeper recognises the blade you're wielding. Or an Assassin takes on a contract to kill someone main story, and gets into some conflict with Crows or w/e. The only problem I have with this idea is being forced along a path that is out of character for you. I usually take the assassin spec as a rogue because the skills are useful and to my mind are valid beyond just being a killer for hire. For example, if I have to kill people, I want to do it as quickly and accurately as possible in order to minimise suffering. In DAI it seemed entirely appropriate that my Dalish rogue was being trained by a Dalish assassin. We were told they are notorious but not for the same reason as the Crows. Their skills were formed to hunt down enemies of the Dalish and exact revenge but I imagine would also be very useful defending their people from threats. As I said to Dorian, when he mentioned about my specialisation, the skills would be useful without having to have the hired killer mindset. However, when it came to the War Table mission associated with the Spec, it was about killing an unwanted husband so his wife could have both wealth and the lover of her choice. Like Cullen, I objected to the idea of the Inquisitor getting involved in something so sordid, so I declined to take it any further. Nevertheless, if you were an assassin because you were a member of the Tevinter Sicarri, as opposed to being a Crow, then I could see some interesting side quests developing as a result. Not only might you be in opposition to the Crows but we are told that the Sicarri are often kept loyal by taking their family hostage. So that could result in either attempting to rescue your family or, if you couldn't give a damn about them, an alternative route to securing your freedom from the organisation, assuming that your loyalty was forced, or improving your standing if it wasn't. Still, the Sicarri are not exclusively assassins but even have mages among their number (as do the Crows), so such side quests would really go more with being a member of a particular organisation rather than a certain specialisation. So I'd rather have side quests associated with being a member of a faction, race or other form of association rather than tied to a specialisation.
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Post by Vall on Oct 31, 2021 11:04:24 GMT
Maybe Arcane Warrior goes searching for some ancient elven blade said to bind to the user, allowing them to better blend their martial and magical arts, and in the process meets spirits who put them through a trial that tests their martial and arcane prowess to make sure they are worthy. And maybe they get a unique path through a quest because an elven keeper recognises the blade you're wielding. Or an Assassin takes on a contract to kill someone main story, and gets into some conflict with Crows or w/e. The only problem I have with this idea is being forced along a path that is out of character for you. I usually take the assassin spec as a rogue because the skills are useful and to my mind are valid beyond just being a killer for hire. For example, if I have to kill people, I want to do it as quickly and accurately as possible in order to minimise suffering. In DAI it seemed entirely appropriate that my Dalish rogue was being trained by a Dalish assassin. We were told they are notorious but not for the same reason as the Crows. Oh, yeah, I just threw out first idea that came to my head for non-arcane warrior spec (I was mostly interested Arcane Warriors who have very specific lore ), if they were actually doing this, the quests shouldn't be specific to one organisation. I think ideally they should be related to where you're in the story, so maybe if we're thinking about assassin, maybe the quest could appear as an alternate solution to dealing with some enemy leader. Where normally they would appear leading an assault on you, you could nip it in the bud early by murdering them in their base. Should probably have a few resolutions too, like in my original example, you could just go and take it by force, which would have repercussions on whatever reactivity there is related to the blade you sought. The assassin could maybe 'persuade' (read: threaten) the enemy leader to instead join you, or sabotage the enemy. And the skill unlock I've mentioned in my previous post could be tied to this as well, there could be a passive stat boost that works with whatever decision you made, like maybe just killing will get you bonus damage from stealth/invisibility, while intimidating them into helping you would let first attack from stealth crowd control an enemy for a moment. Or alternatively, axe the idea of power reward completely, so you can deny the quest if the idea doesn't appeal to the character (and have the story react to that too). I'm basically thinking mini-version of origins, just not at the beginning of the game. Specifics of these ideas might not be great, but I do think, that with the right scenario and choices, it could be made where the risk of clashing with roleplay could be minimal. Never nonexistent though, as is always the case with video games.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 31, 2021 13:22:15 GMT
Yeah i thought the specialisation missions were very poor. I'd prefer the DA2 approach of just unlocking them.
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Norstaera
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Stealth Swooper
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
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Post by Norstaera on Nov 9, 2021 15:40:15 GMT
I didn't mind the quests, too much, in DAI. I think the idea of bringing in advisors/trainers was fine. However, maybe it would have been better if they were temporary companions for a training mission. We could try out the specialty and they could comment/advise/instruct.
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Pon.ee
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: TheFinalPon
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Post by Pon.ee on Nov 12, 2021 20:04:27 GMT
I'm pf mixed opinions, I loved in DAO how specialisations were tied to the story and you could only unlock certain ones if you did certain things. Some of them I missed entirely which while I didn't mind I know it could really annoy people. But I also really like aspects of what they did in DAI. Was I total fan of going out and collecting things to get my specialisation? Not really. Did I really enjoy the idea that I got to make my own creepy Mortalitasi skull and summon the spirit of a previous necromancer to whisper secrets in the my ear to teach me? Personally thought that was awesome!
Really wish they'd have taken it further though! C'mon Bioware I want my spooky new best friend sat on my desk in my room, I want the same spooky ghost whispers coming from it when I get close as when I walked into that hut of Tranquil skulls in Redcliffe.
Will be interesting to see what they do in DA4, I just hope there we get some more new ones.
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