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Post by greywardenc on Oct 10, 2021 20:01:40 GMT
Based on my article of the same name, I want to know what other info has been gathered from the community as to what Dragon Age 4 will include. I know that most of what we're going on is concept art, and would love to hear how the art is being interpreted. Also, what do YOU want to see in the upcoming game? I want to see Par Vollen.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 11, 2021 16:18:36 GMT
That link goes right back to this page. I just want the next game to be well written and have likable characters and lots of dialougue
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 15, 2021 18:48:31 GMT
I'm reading it will be 'current gen' only. That's exciting...
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 15, 2021 19:22:55 GMT
I'm reading it will be 'current gen' only. That's exciting... I don't really view it as exciting. Any other deicision would seem brainless.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 15, 2021 20:08:46 GMT
I'm reading it will be 'current gen' only. That's exciting... I don't really view it as exciting. Any other deicision would seem brainless. Only thing I am excited for that reason is that they can go all in and design it *just* for the PS5. Maybe more attention to detail and haptics.
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ergates
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 751 Likes: 1,327
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Post by ergates on Oct 19, 2021 10:35:16 GMT
After it was announced that all the multiplayer and 'live service' bollocks were to be removed completely my feelings about the forthcoming game went from 'mostly indifferent' to 'mildly interested'.
I'm pretty sure that the original plan, following the cancellation of 'Joplin', (which was based on the very interesting concept of a heist-based games set in Tevinter) was to pretty-much make a clone of Anthem set in Thedas which would basically have been an online looter shooter featuring horde mode battles. Thank God that's no longer the case!
There's still plenty of scope to completely mess up the game, so many things that could go wrong. They could decide to stick with the semi-open world format and make another game stuffed to the brim with tedious fetch quests and collectibles. They could completely mess up the combat (as they did with Inquisition) and make a game with completely flat, boring mechanics, limited scope for strategy and tactics. They could completely screw up the story, fill it with senseless retcons, plot holes, abandon existing canon... all kinds of nasty things. They could create a game in which choices don't matter and players are simply railroaded into doing things their characters wouldn't want to do.... the list for potential disasters is endless, and we all know that this version of Bioware is not the same Bioware who made Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins - thus the potential for screw-ups rises exponentially as more of the old crew leave the company, and the more they focus upon 'broadening the game's appeal', rather than on 'making a great RPG'.
In short, despite the welcome removal of online and live service elements, we might still potentially end up with a shallow, dumbed down looter shooter designed to appeal mostly to the Call of Duty/Assassin's Creed crowd.
... but....
Assuming they actually get it right, what I'd expect to see (to satisfy my wish for a deep, story/character-focused RPG) is:
- Ditch the open world thing entirely in favour of a tight, semi-linear story-orientated experience.
- For the love of God, bring back the customisable tactics. Have spell and talent trees with rich, interesting spells and abilities to select from. Inquisition's spell and talents were (to me at least) just something to click when levelling up, few of them were very interesting, whereas DA:O and DA:2's spells and talents were fascinating, to the extent that I couldn't wait to level up and get a chance to try them out after carefully planning my build.
- For mercy's sake, ditch the eight-spell restriction on the hotbar! That utterly, utterly sucked. In many ways I think it was the worst part of Inquisition, and actually came close to ruining the game entirely for me.
- Bring back healing magic! Spirit Healing is a canonical part of Thedas' lore. Removing it entirely was ridiculous, and it's replacement (potion spam) was not only dumb, but severely limited my ability to explore the world. What's the point in having a vast, explorable world when I have only eight potions to share between four characters, and so we have to constantly go back to base to stock up - it was like a case of constant 'two steps forward, three steps back'. OK it was better in the late game when I had the tools to properly mitigate damage, but even so...
- Keep the deep crafting system, that was one thing I actually liked.
- Try to make plot elements and quest make both literal and mechanical sense whenever possible. OK, you can't always do this, sometimes videogame mechanics need to trump 'real life' mechanics, but not always. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is a classic example. A fascinating idea trashed by the fact that it's outcome relied upon finding a bunch of stupid Halla statues and rushing through plot areas at breakneck speed thanks to a damnable timer based upon the baffling concept of 'approval' if you stay away from the main ballroom for too long. It made zero sense. Instead it could have been based entirely upon how cleverly your character reacted to the plot, the questions you asked, the manner in which you resolved situations, your willingness to investigate... In short they took a potentially very interesting scenario and ruined it by making it 'videogamey', rather than RPG-focused.
- Side quests and missions with actual meaning that properly tie into the main plot, and have actual consequences. "I left my socks in a tower, go fetch them"... "thanks for my socks, here's some gold coins". I don't mind this kind of thing now and again. If a major quest sends me to this tower then fair enough, having an NPC get me to look out for something as an optional fetch quest is fine, but making an entire game around this kind of thing just doesn't cut it.
Want to know what the best kinds of side quests are? Ones that take you by surprise, and turn into something much bigger than you initially expected. Mass Effect 1 did this beautifully with the whole Cerberus chain that started as a simple 'find missing colonists', and then blossomed out into a full-on side plot about a rogue black ops organisation with multiple missions.
Imagine the guy asking you to find his socks in a tower, only for the same guy to be revealed as a major lore character - the socks were simply an excuse to enter the tower, there's a note embedded in one of the socks, which leads to a revelation that Sock Guy is actually a Grand Poobah, who is plotting to overthrow a powerful Magister, leading to you infiltrating the Magister's home.....etc. etc. etc.... all of which impacts the main story in a meaningful way as the Magister you chose to assassinate was actually a potential ally against the game's Big Bad, who could have aided you with vital information and resources... etc. etc....
Those kind of 'unexpected, surprise' sub-quests are brilliant when they occur. You could actually miss them entirely if not paying attention, but it rewards those who are prepared to explore, investigate and put the work in.
And I've rambled long enough.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
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https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Oct 19, 2021 11:55:48 GMT
After it was announced that all the multiplayer and 'live service' bollocks were to be removed completely my feelings about the forthcoming game went from 'mostly indifferent' to 'mildly interested'. I'm pretty sure that the original plan, following the cancellation of 'Joplin', (which was based on the very interesting concept of a heist-based games set in Tevinter) was to pretty-much make a clone of Anthem set in Thedas which would basically have been an online looter shooter featuring horde mode battles. Thank God that's no longer the case! There's still plenty of scope to completely mess up the game, so many things that could go wrong. They could decide to stick with the semi-open world format and make another game stuffed to the brim with tedious fetch quests and collectibles. They could completely mess up the combat (as they did with Inquisition) and make a game with completely flat, boring mechanics, limited scope for strategy and tactics. They could completely screw up the story, fill it with senseless retcons, plot holes, abandon existing canon... all kinds of nasty things. They could create a game in which choices don't matter and players are simply railroaded into doing things their characters wouldn't want to do.... the list for potential disasters is endless, and we all know that this version of Bioware is not the same Bioware who made Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect and Dragon Age Origins - thus the potential for screw-ups rises exponentially as more of the old crew leave the company, and the more they focus upon 'broadening the game's appeal', rather than on 'making a great RPG'. In short, despite the welcome removal of online and live service elements, we might still potentially end up with a shallow, dumbed down looter shooter designed to appeal mostly to the Call of Duty/Assassin's Creed crowd. ... but.... Assuming they actually get it right, what I'd expect to see (to satisfy my wish for a deep, story/character-focused RPG) is: - Ditch the open world thing entirely in favour of a tight, semi-linear story-orientated experience. - For the love of God, bring back the customisable tactics. Have spell and talent trees with rich, interesting spells and abilities to select from. Inquisition's spell and talents were (to me at least) just something to click when levelling up, few of them were very interesting, whereas DA:O and DA:2's spells and talents were fascinating, to the extent that I couldn't wait to level up and get a chance to try them out after carefully planning my build. - For mercy's sake, ditch the eight-spell restriction on the hotbar! That utterly, utterly sucked. In many ways I think it was the worst part of Inquisition, and actually came close to ruining the game entirely for me. - Bring back healing magic! Spirit Healing is a canonical part of Thedas' lore. Removing it entirely was ridiculous, and it's replacement (potion spam) was not only dumb, but severely limited my ability to explore the world. What's the point in having a vast, explorable world when I have only eight potions to share between four characters, and so we have to constantly go back to base to stock up - it was like a case of constant 'two steps forward, three steps back'. OK it was better in the late game when I had the tools to properly mitigate damage, but even so... - Keep the deep crafting system, that was one thing I actually liked. - Try to make plot elements and quest make both literal and mechanical sense whenever possible. OK, you can't always do this, sometimes videogame mechanics need to trump 'real life' mechanics, but not always. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is a classic example. A fascinating idea trashed by the fact that it's outcome relied upon finding a bunch of stupid Halla statues and rushing through plot areas at breakneck speed thanks to a damnable timer based upon the baffling concept of 'approval' if you stay away from the main ballroom for too long. It made zero sense. Instead it could have been based entirely upon how cleverly your character reacted to the plot, the questions you asked, the manner in which you resolved situations, your willingness to investigate... In short they took a potentially very interesting scenario and ruined it by making it 'videogamey', rather than RPG-focused. - Side quests and missions with actual meaning that properly tie into the main plot, and have actual consequences. " I left my socks in a tower, go fetch them"... "thanks for my socks, here's some gold coins". I don't mind this kind of thing now and again. If a major quest sends me to this tower then fair enough, having an NPC get me to look out for something as an optional fetch quest is fine, but making an entire game around this kind of thing just doesn't cut it. Want to know what the best kinds of side quests are? Ones that take you by surprise, and turn into something much bigger than you initially expected. Mass Effect 1 did this beautifully with the whole Cerberus chain that started as a simple 'find missing colonists', and then blossomed out into a full-on side plot about a rogue black ops organisation with multiple missions. Imagine the guy asking you to find his socks in a tower, only for the same guy to be revealed as a major lore character - the socks were simply an excuse to enter the tower, there's a note embedded in one of the socks, which leads to a revelation that Sock Guy is actually a Grand Poobah, who is plotting to overthrow a powerful Magister, leading to you infiltrating the Magister's home.....etc. etc. etc.... all of which impacts the main story in a meaningful way as the Magister you chose to assassinate was actually a potential ally against the game's Big Bad, who could have aided you with vital information and resources... etc. etc.... Those kind of 'unexpected, surprise' sub-quests are brilliant when they occur. You could actually miss them entirely if not paying attention, but it rewards those who are prepared to explore, investigate and put the work in. And I've rambled long enough. You absolutely nailed it.
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andydandymandy
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 302 Likes: 704
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Post by andydandymandy on Nov 16, 2021 3:47:09 GMT
Based on my article of the same name, I want to know what other info has been gathered from the community as to what Dragon Age 4 will include. I know that most of what we're going on is concept art, and would love to hear how the art is being interpreted. Also, what do YOU want to see in the upcoming game? I want to see Par Vollen. Is this your article?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 16, 2021 13:28:56 GMT
I'm reading it will be 'current gen' only. That's exciting... Wait would that be xbox one or xbox X series and xbox S series.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2021 14:08:55 GMT
I'm reading it will be 'current gen' only. That's exciting... Wait would that be xbox one or xbox X series and xbox S series. Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Nov 16, 2021 14:15:44 GMT
"Ditch the open world thing entirely in favour of a tight, semi-linear story-orientated experience."
I dont think this will happen anymore with most of larger games.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Nov 16, 2021 14:18:40 GMT
Open worlds dilute potential.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 16, 2021 17:22:01 GMT
Open worlds dilute potential. Or expand on it a la the Witcher 3.
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Beerfish
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 16, 2021 19:29:42 GMT
"After it was announced that all the multiplayer "
Exact opposite for me, with no mp it goes from a day one or pre order to wait an see some reviews. I'll undoubtably get it but my enthusiasm for it being a well worth it long term buy is much lessened.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Nov 17, 2021 0:54:36 GMT
The Witcher 3's the exception that proves the rule because it is the only recognised example. And I preferred The Witcher 2.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 17, 2021 0:58:41 GMT
The Witcher 3's the exception that proves the rule because it is the only recognised example. And I preferred The Witcher 2. GTA, Elder Scrolls, Red Dead Redemption 2, and If it really does well: Halo Infinite. There's a ton of Open World games that are really good or have the potential to be really good. Though I do prefer Witcher 2 as well.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Nov 17, 2021 1:01:22 GMT
I do not rate any of the aforementioned, and Halo Infinite's got something not quite that large in scale apparently, I will not be happy if it's a massive empty world like the others you mentioned.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 17, 2021 2:00:59 GMT
Lol, they're hardly empty open worlds especially GTA and Elder Scrolls. Halo got something interesting combining open world with its roots though. Could end up in a class of its own.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 17, 2021 2:27:10 GMT
Maybe Elder Scrolls Skyrim or even DAI (to an extent, IF ONE CONSIDERS IT OPEN WORLD) counts but the technology and standards of the industry have gotten to the point where 'open world' games have as much fidelity as any 'closed world' or level based game and can still give rich experiences. Though as usual the term 'open world game' has been pounded down into a meaningless, distinctless, grey pulp. And there is always going to be benefits and potential obstacles about any gaming genre or gameplay loop.
But I do tend to find games like DAI, Witcher 3, Assassins Creed Odyssey, and Ghost Recon Breakpoint to be better then Dragon Age Origins or Marvel's Avengers...which is very much a level based game.
But the main draw to open world games is the freedom in choices that is offered within the narrative and how to approach each individual encounter. The trick is of course still giving the player this freedom while at the same time figuring out how to give it structure in order to tell a cohesive story with a deep thematic meaning. And well...this is possible. DAI did so by giving them seperate closed levels for story beats that could tightly be contained (why I find calling DAI open world to be silly) and still other companies are able to craft they world and narrative to tunnel the player into an encounter when needed, or tel a light story if the narrative calls for it using other means to tell its story or other draws to entertain the player.
Edit: For further emphasis on this, basterdation of the term maybe but then I did also like ME A more then ME 3s level based approach.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
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BlueMarsalis79
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Nov 17, 2021 3:05:03 GMT
I really just can't stand any of them just my feelings on the matter.
TES and Bethesda's RPGs I find particularly without any merit to me.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 17, 2021 3:18:00 GMT
I really just can't stand any of them just my feelings on the matter. TES and Bethesda's RPGs I find particularly without any merit to me. well that Is Bethesda for you. But Bethesda has its very own specific brand of open world games all to their own and given the company's...other qualities...they aren't really my cup of tea either. Too much focus on pure exploration for one thing.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 486 Likes: 721
inherit
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0
721
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Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
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fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Nov 17, 2021 3:32:49 GMT
I enjoyed quite a bit of Inquisition, but then it kept on going, and a lot of the stuff from prior entries I loved's just... gone completely, like having access to every feat, amongst others.
So I definitely think it can work for Dragon Age, just not quite nailed it yet, but I really hope it will.
I want nothing more than to launch a complete Dragon Age 4 in 2024, and say, yes it's the best one yet.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 17, 2021 12:49:39 GMT
I really just can't stand any of them just my feelings on the matter. TES and Bethesda's RPGs I find particularly without any merit to me. well that Is Bethesda for you. But Bethesda has its very own specific brand of open world games all to their own and given the company's...other qualities...they aren't really my cup of tea either. Too much focus on pure exploration for one thing. Bethesda can claim to be the first RPG to do it but they rarely have a great story and the lack of a voiced protag hurts the game in my opinion. The fact that their rereleasing skyrim for the second time in a decade though really irratates me though. And for the record I have been playing elder scrolls games since morrowind but never the MMO's. So I am a fan of them.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 17, 2021 12:55:12 GMT
The Witcher 3's the exception that proves the rule because it is the only recognised example. And I preferred The Witcher 2. GTA, Elder Scrolls, Red Dead Redemption 2, and If it really does well: Halo Infinite. There's a ton of Open World games that are really good or have the potential to be really good. Though I do prefer Witcher 2 as well. I was never a fan of the GTA games and the like. I thought assasins creed oddysey did a good job of it though. The witcher two was an awesome game that I think was better then TW3 but not by a bunch and I can respect what TW3 accomplished. They made an open world game that had alot of choices and different outcomes and did it with a great story. I don't think all open world games suck and even if DA4 is open world I will still be preordering it but I would prefer they didn't do open world.
Basically I am not saying that just because it is open world doesn't mean it is gonna suck. I hate the constant "Bioware sucks" and "DA4 will suck" despite knowing very little about it. Don't want to be lumped in with the doom sayers.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 17, 2021 13:02:53 GMT
Wait would that be xbox one or xbox X series and xbox S series. Xbox Series X/S and PlayStation 5 Since the game won't be out till next year at the earliest I am actually glad they are not releasing for old gen. I might be able to buy an xbox S by then.
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