The ending and the crunch to extend it (Kotaku)

Welp, as we already knew, Casey forced the most illogical aspects.

I feel the discussion around the Mass Effect ending(s) often overlooks one critical thing:

The marketing for the game and how the entire trilogy was sold to the audience.



The entire pitch of the series was a sci fi choose your own adventure story. A lot of emphasis was put on "Your Story, Your Sheperd, Your Ending". Even during the discussions from the developers about Mass Effect and ending the series, that same thing was said. A lot of about how this was Your Adventure, Your Story, and would be Your Ending. A few mentions of how its not going to be simply A, B, or C... and the initial ending ended up being precisely that, A, B, or C. "Choose your own Instagram filter for the cutscene".



I'm all about honesty in these things. A large part of the discussion I saw was about how this wasn't what they had promised (see above). Making a vegan burger is just fine. You do you, man. But just tell me its a vegan burger. Taking said vegan burger and selling it to me as a cheeseburger with cow meat and dairy cheese is not okay, and wondering why I would complain about you doing so is... very odd.

THis honestly just reinforces to me that many of the devs are still oblivious to the issue and still act like their above it. 

What were they, a few Readiness points?

(I mean I was pleased to save the Queen and have the babies turn up for Crucible construction...)

I read that article, it is actually in response to this video and basically states that while some of the criticism was understandable some people went too far and for me it is unfortunate that is the main topic afterwards, the article states that gamers asking for a chance forced the developers to go from crunch to more crunch and I personally don't see it like that the company shouldn't have abused it's employees and EA should have given Bioware space specially since the game was gonna sell even if delayed. The video:



It generated a split response in the comments: some are sorry for the developers but acknowledge that the moment the company charged for the game the excuse of it being art wasn't gonna fly and as we have learned through the years, that wasn't the original vision of the ending as there were multiple, others are 100% with the developers and others are just split. It seems the company hasn't learned as one of the commenters alleges that Bioware knows the Legendary Edition is full of problems but is content to letting modders fix them for free, to which I responded to him that wasn't cool to do and he agreed given that console players will likely be left with the game issues (as always, take this with a grain of salt):
"No, I'm not in charge of the tools we use, so I only saw correspondence as a third wheel, and the BioWare reps stopped appearing in our chats when the project was closed at around July this year. But some of the tool developers still talk to them privately. So I did get to see the shock on their "face" when they realized 3-hit melees were accidentally missing in Legendary Edition Mass Effect 3. A feature that will never be added back at least on consoles. It was clear that the reason he couldn't push to get it fixed is because their QA department only had room to address "critical" bugs, i.e. actual game crashes and other serious problems. Unfortunately an ugly save glitch is still stuck in the PlayStation ports where random plot flags and values are truncated in rare instances of saving. That will never be fixed.

The initial correspondence was allegedly by accident, because someone said they worked with modders but we had not heard a word. We contacted them because of that, and they owned up to it by actually collaborating directly after that point. We now have details like all their entire "StoryManager" plot table, which means we know what every single plot flag in the trilogy means, which means we have much more clarity about plot-branching issues and how to fix them, and the ability to create story-driven mods that depend on official choices you make in the core game.

But the bottom line is: The reason we are even able to release mods today for Legendary Edition is because the toolset developers worked directly with BioWare to know how the game works under the hood. If BioWare hadn't done that, there wouldn't even be a sprawling mod community for Legendary Edition in 2021."

I think that Bioware can use whatever measures they want, but it isn't going to work on people. General disposition toward Bioware is negative and people simply don't believe in them anymore. And they can like their endings, think that it is "unfair" to have to work to fix a bad product, but customer support has a price. You can't choose to sell a bad product to other people. You can sell it at a loss, as Anthem proved, but that's not solid business practice. If people don't like your company and don't like your games, then it is likely that, at some point, whether you believe it or not, you did something wrong that upset a lot of people and has made the public weary of trusting you. People don't wake up and just hate on things, for no real reason.

I found a modder who has agreed to let me cite him but states that he wants to remain anonymous, I will see what else comes up from all this that has been stirred up (this isn't the same modder as the one cited above):

"Afterwards, Bioware called the toolset developers into a private server and had them sign NDA contracts...for some reason. There was an exchange of information, toolset code (etc.) and Bioware was also given an extensive list of bugs that should be fixed in the remaster. The majority of that list was ignored. Some modders also made pleas to have certain major bugs fixed, but it fell on deaf ears.


The LE isn't worth fixing, and a lot of its issues cannot be resolved. The missing 3-melee chain is the least of its problems. Missing shadows, and a vast array of broken lighting, textures, cubemaps, as well as things like AI bugs, story bugs, missing pieces of content (etc.) are all problems that will remain unresolved because modding tools can't handle that."

Yeah, how dare I ask for an experience I paid to be as stable as possibly more so when the developers go through a lot of crunch imposed by their bosses as they leave most of the work for the last minutes? How bad I am for even suggesting that Bioware should inform of the issues the games has but won't fix them as they are not economically sound.

This is something an user with the HERO Rank (NOT AN OFFICIAL BIOWARE EMPLOYEE) from Answers HQ answered me when I posted those two quotes and can be found in the Thread "New Patch" at page 28 please, don't harass anyone as this is only a game and we can send a larger message with our wallets, we don't need to be designated as toxic nor do we have a need for those disruptive elements:

answers.ea.com/t5/Mass-Effect-Legendary-Edition/New-patch/td-p/10441504/page/28

"Why should anyone be "ill willed" against Modders that signed a NDA?

No company in the world would ever share sensitive data with people outside their employee base without letting them sign a NDA.

The Modders that signed this NDA are the creators of the toolset, and therefore the most respected people inside the ME modding community.

There is no new patch coming, it would be here a long time ago if Bioware would have planed anything above what they already did.
[...]

The game works just fine on consoles as well."

This is what the same modderator told another user:

"I've said it before, Bioware could have made more out of the MELE in my opinion too, but I strongly disagree with the notion that the Mele is a inferior version.
For me the changes in Mass Effect 1 alone make it a worthy buy.

And despite what some people here think, there are a tone of Bug fixes in the MELE.
It is true that many Bugs are not fixed, there are reasons why the got not fixed, to risky, to expensive and so on.

That a new version of a game is introducing new bugs is just not not preventable, Bioware did fixed the worst of them, the bugs that prevented a lot of folks from playing.

*importantFurthermore, looking at this forum, where all problems of a game are reported, often gives a wrong impression of the state of the game.
Not all of these problems occur for all people nor do all people perceive problems in the same way.

It is also true that it is not our job to fix it, but most of us have fun doing it. And that is because Bioware gave us this amazing new world we all learned to love."


I love the LE but just because it makes the game easier to be modded by the PC crowd in order to create patches and additional things doesn't make it a 10/10 game, it is a 8/10 game on PC and a 5 or 6/10 on console oh my, I insulted the artistic integrity of the Bioware to so far not to use this opportunity to fix old bugs and not include many new bugs and glitches and how dare I as a lowly peasant not part of the PC Master race which can fix issues of games (these modders are the next video game developers) after the company doesn't want to give a message of things that can't be fixed and that they strive to be better.

Yep

Do not contact the modderator I am quoting, do not give Bioware the excuse to label us as toxic just, express with your wallet and if said fellow PC player and modder wants to get involved in the discussion then we will constructively talk, there is no need to start a fire campaign over a gaming company.
SofaJockey did you ever resolved the issues that were preventing you to get the Insanity Trophies? I have seen you on the Answers HQ but I see you must have given up. This is page 12 of the "Paramour/Insanity Trophy not Unlocking:"

answers.ea.com/t5/Mass-Effect-Legendary-Edition/Insanity-Paramour-2-amp-3-still-haven-t-unlocked-after-recent/td-p/10410676/page/12

But apparently it is our fault as well, I remember in the original release of ME2 on 360 when I was able to acquire the Paramour 2 with Tali post Collectors Base but, in the ME2LE the screen turns black when she agrees to the romance but the game still recognizes that it happens, when I suggested that it could be something with the code lines a modderator jumped in shock and asked me what lead me to believe it has anything to do with code lines and then in another comment that the trophies/achievements work just fine on PC and PS unlike Xbox which is where the issue is focused (months later I ran that Bioware knows there are all sort of issues with the save flags and the like but won't be bothered to fix it, see my previous quotes) prompting another user to point out that well, just follow the link (I am draconiam in the site):

"Achievements not unlocking is not proof for a wide-spreading programming problem



This achievements work flawless on the PC and on the PS as well afaik, so this is in no way a global problem, it is a problem on the Xbox version.



Scripting is programming, this games work flawless on all platforms plus/minus some bugs, this alone rules out a "script problem running in the entire LE."



A bug, or software bug, is by definition an error in a computer program (like a video game) that causes the program to produce an incorrect or unexpected result or to react in an unintended way.
(And sometimes it is hard to determine if an error in the game is a bug, or an issue caused by problems on the player's computer/console.)



And this is exactly what this is, not some kind of global problem with the programming, but a simple bug.
-----------------

draconiam wrote:
should be actually helpful if more people (specially PC modders) can get to the game code and see if there is something broken with the script tracker and hence that is where Bioware should concentrate on.

-----------------

Modders don't look at the code.


Nobody looks at the code besides the developers, simply because you would need to decompile the exe to get to the code

And even then, what you would get is not even close to the code that Bioware has.

Modders use elements that are already used in game, textures, meshes, dialogue, sequences and change them so that they work inside the already existing framework of the game engine.

So, with all due respect, you shouldn't speculate about a "script problem running in the entire LE." when you don't even understand the terms, which you clearly don't."

That whole "modders don't look at the code turned out fine considering the modders who I quoted actually told me that Bioware gave them a lot of tools that allows them to look at the StoryManager plot tables and more (the bellow quote is from the first modder contacted:

"....We contacted them because of that, and they owned up to it by actually collaborating directly after that point. We now have details like all their entire "StoryManager" plot table, which means we know what every single plot flag in the trilogy means, which means we have much more clarity about plot-branching issues and how to fix them, and the ability to create story-driven mods that depend on official choices you make in the core game.

But the bottom line is: The reason we are even able to release mods today for Legendary Edition is because the toolset developers worked directly with BioWare to know how the game works under the hood. If BioWare hadn't done that, there wouldn't even be a sprawling mod community for Legendary Edition in 2021."

I don't know, it's hard to get a decent conversation in Mass Effect without having it being labeled as an "apologist" or a hater. I mean years ago, liking ME: A was equivalent being a paid shill or a "biodrone" so of course I'm going to defend the games I like. 

How would that work?

It doesn't really matter how.
Firstly, because they're not going to do it and secondly, because it doesn't matter anymore. Nobody is going to wait to 2026-7 for that. Imagine trying to win people back with a cutscene that plays for 2 minutes, after rejecting them for 15 years. That's a youtube video for them. They're not buying the game for that.

These are all fair and valid points; my hope is not the same as what I perceive as reality. Do I expect them to fix it? Oh hell no; if they haven't by now, they're not going to ever. And yes, I doubt anyone will wait around until 2026-27 (and that depends on how well DA4 does, really), to find out. All I know is, there's not going to be an easy answer if they really want to try. And they probably don't, because they lack the introspection to realize they messed it up. And also, the same team that made ME1 isn't the same one working on it now (as in people have left, etc.) so it's not what it once was.



Also correct; the discussion may have gotten heated sometimes there, and some of the threads were just....flamebait, but most was at least civil. I say most, because I know a few threads that were, "You agree with this mentality 100%, or don't bother coming in here". And people did respect that for the most part.

The bolded part is the most important part you make here - swallow the pride and move ahead. I don't see the most fanatical on either side doing this, but it's a good start.