Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Jan 6, 2022 1:58:55 GMT
You dev’s out there, or at least those that know something about the dev process, (not just the self-proclaimed experts with zero actual experience), riddle me how game dev isn’t something that seems to be tailor made for telecommuting.
Online team meetings, then individuals working a -duh- computer, then transferring their work to wherever it needs to be transferred seems to me to be a no brainer.
Every time I hear reasoning for the Biower delays and lack of output (the lost decade) being the COVID quarantine, I wonder why.
Especially if, like other seemingly well informed posters here have pointed out, Biower is just now getting around to hiring full teams.
Couldn't they have hired full teams, say 2 years ago, and telecommuted most, if not all, of the dev?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 6, 2022 20:21:12 GMT
You dev’s out there, or at least those that know something about the dev process, (not just the self-proclaimed experts with zero actual experience), riddle me how game dev isn’t something that seems to be tailor made for telecommuting. Online team meetings, then individuals working a -duh- computer, then transferring their work to wherever it needs to be transferred seems to me to be a no brainer. Every time I hear reasoning for the Biower delays and lack of output (the lost decade) being the COVID quarantine, I wonder why. Especially if, like other seemingly well informed posters here have pointed out, Biower is just now getting around to hiring full teams. Couldn't they have hired full teams, say 2 years ago, and telecommuted most, if not all, of the dev? Idon't think the meetings or the telecommunication is the issue I think the industry just is not tailored for this. Yes people could do all this software and development right from the comfort of their own homes but that also assumes that the infrastructure was there to do that in the first place. And gaming companies operate out of offices like seemingly *any* software development firm or other businesses. While I am comfortable working from home on my own stuff most people don't seem to be, they like working from *over there* and living *over here*. So they had to first get a lot of equipment and resources set up in their individual home spaces before they could even continue development in this case. Things like software, maybe getting specific computers out to people that could run software, setting up recording studios in the home, e-mailing and communicating with people which is probably harder to do then in person, maybe even mo cap facilities. Plus some people just aren't comfortable with zoom meetings or computer meetings (to say nothing of any technical delays) and they really need a face to face connection. Sure this doesen't 'excuse' everything that happened before Covid but then that has been well documented and its not like BioWare has not been releasing content this entire time, just not DA content.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jan 7, 2022 9:26:19 GMT
You dev’s out there, or at least those that know something about the dev process, (not just the self-proclaimed experts with zero actual experience), riddle me how game dev isn’t something that seems to be tailor made for telecommuting. Online team meetings, then individuals working a -duh- computer, then transferring their work to wherever it needs to be transferred seems to me to be a no brainer. Every time I hear reasoning for the Biower delays and lack of output (the lost decade) being the COVID quarantine, I wonder why. Especially if, like other seemingly well informed posters here have pointed out, Biower is just now getting around to hiring full teams. Couldn't they have hired full teams, say 2 years ago, and telecommuted most, if not all, of the dev? Sr Software Engineer here. Most people use computers as aids in their jobs nowadays. Software development isn't unique in this regard, so they don't have significant benefits when it comes to telecommuting. Still, it could be argued that they are relatively less impacted than most other jobs, sure. Thing is, game development isn't just coding. There's a whole set of fields that play together. Consider animations. They need to bring in people in person to do the mo-caps. That's already a lot of coordination, upper management approvals, etc that needs to be handled. Now add on to that the amount of people there were affected by COVID. Family members or friends that have been hospitalized or died. Meetings and events that had to be postponed. People taking more time off for mental health recovery. At my job, we're basically relying on contractors at this point. COVID has affected everyone. I miss the office...
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 7, 2022 10:35:34 GMT
We haven't even seen gameplay or an actual title... and it expects to release a few days potentially after EA Play? Maybe it's just a placeholder.
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Post by ergates on Jan 7, 2022 13:19:06 GMT
Personally I'd be shocked it it was released in 2022. We may get to see some screen shots, and more info toward the end of the year, perhaps even a trailer - but I'd not expect a completed game until mid 2023. At a guess I'd say May 2023 would be a decent bet.
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
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Post by legbamel on Jan 7, 2022 20:36:12 GMT
You dev’s out there, or at least those that know something about the dev process, (not just the self-proclaimed experts with zero actual experience), riddle me how game dev isn’t something that seems to be tailor made for telecommuting. Online team meetings, then individuals working a -duh- computer, then transferring their work to wherever it needs to be transferred seems to me to be a no brainer. Every time I hear reasoning for the Biower delays and lack of output (the lost decade) being the COVID quarantine, I wonder why. Especially if, like other seemingly well informed posters here have pointed out, Biower is just now getting around to hiring full teams. Couldn't they have hired full teams, say 2 years ago, and telecommuted most, if not all, of the dev? It's silly to assume that people have machines at home equal to their office computers (for folks who do the heavy graphics lifting) or that security concerns about file transfers don't matter. Then there are brainstorming sessions and other meetings that bring a team (or teams!) together that just don't happen when you're relegated to on-line meetings.
Interacting with my co-workers, bouncing ideas off of them and fielding questions and ideas from them, doesn't happen when I'm working from home. Even when we're in an on-line session, I find myself filtering what had been on my mind down to what I think they will considering important or useful. When we're all in the office, I'm more likely to stick my head out of my office the second something comes up and ask for opinions and my team pops in constantly to do the same. I get interrupted a lot more but we communicate and collaborate far more effectively. I can only imagine how much more crucial that is for a creative team and for the collaboration between teams that implement various pieces of the exponentially more complex game as a whole.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2022 0:23:05 GMT
Personally I'd be shocked it it was released in 2022. We may get to see some screen shots, and more info toward the end of the year, perhaps even a trailer - but I'd not expect a completed game until mid 2023. At a guess I'd say May 2023 would be a decent bet. That would be the best time for it to release tbh.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 8, 2022 9:16:23 GMT
Personally I'd be shocked it it was released in 2022. We may get to see some screen shots, and more info toward the end of the year, perhaps even a trailer - but I'd not expect a completed game until mid 2023. At a guess I'd say May 2023 would be a decent bet. The timescale of promotion starting in 2022 followed by release in 2023 was actually given in the shareholders report by EA I seem to recall, although they were talking in terms of fiscal years, which means fiscal 2022 would be the period up to April 2022 and then fiscal 2023 any time from then until April 2023. So if they kept to that projected timescale, then it is likely there will be some sort of major marketing release before too long in 2022, followed by the actual game release in spring 2023. Since I believe that original projection was pre-Covid, there is a likelihood that the timescale may have slipped somewhat and thus a mid to late 2023 (actual year) does seem a reasonable guess.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jan 8, 2022 14:22:59 GMT
I do hope they don't extend the marketing period too long. Every time they do that they get dragged incessantly before the game's even out.
At least I'm relatively disconnected from game-rage nowadays, though I would like DLC this time around lol
*cries in Andromeda*
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Post by smilesja on Jan 8, 2022 15:50:32 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2022 18:26:30 GMT
I do hope they don't extend the marketing period too long. Every time they do that they get dragged incessantly before the game's even out. At least I'm relatively disconnected from game-rage nowadays, though I would like DLC this time around lol *cries in Andromeda* don't release a trial this time around either.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 8, 2022 19:43:38 GMT
Personally I'd be shocked it it was released in 2022. We may get to see some screen shots, and more info toward the end of the year, perhaps even a trailer - but I'd not expect a completed game until mid 2023. At a guess I'd say May 2023 would be a decent bet. The timescale of promotion starting in 2022 followed by release in 2023 was actually given in the shareholders report by EA I seem to recall, although they were talking in terms of fiscal years, which means fiscal 2022 would be the period up to April 2022 and then fiscal 2023 any time from then until April 2023. So if they kept to that projected timescale, then it is likely there will be some sort of major marketing release before too long in 2022, followed by the actual game release in spring 2023. Since I believe that original projection was pre-Covid, there is a likelihood that the timescale may have slipped somewhat and thus a mid to late 2023 (actual year) does seem a reasonable guess. That pre-Covid investors conference call placed the launch date sometime after April 2022. But as BW likes to release their games in either the first or last quarter of the calendar year, that would have meant Fall 2022. But...... with Covid and the various internal shake-ups, who knows when it'll actually launch. Sometime in 2023 is the going rumor right now, but whether that'll be in the first quarter or last quarter (or pushed into 2024)...?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2022 20:19:57 GMT
The timescale of promotion starting in 2022 followed by release in 2023 was actually given in the shareholders report by EA I seem to recall, although they were talking in terms of fiscal years, which means fiscal 2022 would be the period up to April 2022 and then fiscal 2023 any time from then until April 2023. So if they kept to that projected timescale, then it is likely there will be some sort of major marketing release before too long in 2022, followed by the actual game release in spring 2023. Since I believe that original projection was pre-Covid, there is a likelihood that the timescale may have slipped somewhat and thus a mid to late 2023 (actual year) does seem a reasonable guess. That pre-Covid investors conference call placed the launch date sometime after April 2022. But as BW likes to release their games in either the first or last quarter of the calendar year, that would have meant Fall 2022. But...... with Covid and the various internal shake-ups, who knows when it'll actually launch. Sometime in 2023 is the going rumor right now, but whether that'll be in the first quarter or last quarter (or pushed into 2024)...? Ugh. Wonder what the chances are that EA'll just cut their losses at some point.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 8, 2022 20:30:40 GMT
That pre-Covid investors conference call placed the launch date sometime after April 2022. But as BW likes to release their games in either the first or last quarter of the calendar year, that would have meant Fall 2022. But...... with Covid and the various internal shake-ups, who knows when it'll actually launch. Sometime in 2023 is the going rumor right now, but whether that'll be in the first quarter or last quarter (or pushed into 2024)...? Ugh. Wonder what the chances are that EA'll just cut their losses at some point. Pretty unlikely given the success if DAI, EA would want Bioware to get up on the right foot after two controversial releases. So I would say they would have Bioware take their time with their "untainted" franchise.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2022 20:34:33 GMT
Ugh. Wonder what the chances are that EA'll just cut their losses at some point. Pretty unlikely given the success if DAI, EA would want Bioware to get up on the right foot after two controversial releases. So I would say they would have Bioware take their time with their "untainted" franchise. Yeah I know just kind of easy to vaciliate between extreme pessism and optomism at this point. This wait is problematic.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 8, 2022 20:41:20 GMT
That pre-Covid investors conference call placed the launch date sometime after April 2022. But as BW likes to release their games in either the first or last quarter of the calendar year, that would have meant Fall 2022. But...... with Covid and the various internal shake-ups, who knows when it'll actually launch. Sometime in 2023 is the going rumor right now, but whether that'll be in the first quarter or last quarter (or pushed into 2024)...? Ugh. Wonder what the chances are that EA'll just cut their losses at some point. Any publisher will eventually reach that point, the question is how close is BioWare to that point. Personally any game has the danger of reaching that point, but I think BioWare is in safe waters right now. The major delays seem to be in response to the gaming marketplace and might have been caught at a point where not a lot of money was lost and not just the developer failing to deliver like Visceral.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 8, 2022 20:45:36 GMT
That pre-Covid investors conference call placed the launch date sometime after April 2022. But as BW likes to release their games in either the first or last quarter of the calendar year, that would have meant Fall 2022. But...... with Covid and the various internal shake-ups, who knows when it'll actually launch. Sometime in 2023 is the going rumor right now, but whether that'll be in the first quarter or last quarter (or pushed into 2024)...? Ugh. Wonder what the chances are that EA'll just cut their losses at some point. I feel confident DA4 will make it out. Not to say they couldn't cut it now, but I figure if they were going to, they would've done it already (eg. instead of going ahead with the reboot(s)). DA:I's success has undoubtedly helped. I just hope they can build on that and get a real knock-out "win" with DA4.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 8, 2022 20:49:57 GMT
I too think the issue for me right now is if the game gets pushed back till 2024 is not waitingon the game as much, that's not the concern, just a little anxious to start hearing news and marketing on the game to and start hearing about it. For if it comes out in 2024...we might not hear news till 2024 and that will be excruciating.
Though the other hand they have intimated that we'll hear *something* about them for DA 4 this year so unless Hanako was right and the press release was it then that should help allay these fears and we will hear news this year and it will be out next year *crosses fingers and toes*.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 8, 2022 21:07:35 GMT
I too think the issue for me right now is if the game gets pushed back till 2024 is not waitingon the game as much, that's not the concern, just a little anxious to start hearing news and marketing on the game to and start hearing about it. For if it comes out in 2024...we might not hear news till 2024 and that will be excruciating. Though the other hand they have intimated that we'll hear *something* about them for DA 4 this year so unless Hanako was right and the press release was it then that should help allay these fears and we will hear news this year and it will be out next year *crosses fingers and toes*. I get that, though personally I hope they wait until closer to launch (whenever that may be) before they really kick off their marketing campaign. At least for showing off gameplay. I don't really want a repeat of DA:I's run-up, where they showed off too much of the game and too early (with features that never made it in)...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2022 21:10:26 GMT
I too think the issue for me right now is if the game gets pushed back till 2024 is not waitingon the game as much, that's not the concern, just a little anxious to start hearing news and marketing on the game to and start hearing about it. For if it comes out in 2024...we might not hear news till 2024 and that will be excruciating. Though the other hand they have intimated that we'll hear *something* about them for DA 4 this year so unless Hanako was right and the press release was it then that should help allay these fears and we will hear news this year and it will be out next year *crosses fingers and toes*. I get that, though personally I hope they wait until closer to launch (whenever that may be) before they really kick off their marketing campaign. At least for showing off gameplay. I don't really want a repeat of DA:I's run-up, where they showed off too much of the game and too early (with features that never made it in)... That was far more preferable than how they handled MEA's and Anthem's marketing.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 8, 2022 21:16:27 GMT
I get that, though personally I hope they wait until closer to launch (whenever that may be) before they really kick off their marketing campaign. At least for showing off gameplay. I don't really want a repeat of DA:I's run-up, where they showed off too much of the game and too early (with features that never made it in)... That was far more preferable than how they handled MEA's and Anthem's marketing. While I agree. My guess is that marketing feels that hurt the release of Inquisition with people online complaining about how "BioWare lied" or commentary to that sentiment. Even if in the videos its mentioned at the start or during the video that its still in development it seems a vocal group of people have deemed that as a guarantee anything they see is to be in the game. Of course then you have places chasing for clicks making articles about how BioWare let down their fans and it just goes in a circle.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 8, 2022 21:40:17 GMT
That was far more preferable than how they handled MEA's and Anthem's marketing. While I agree. My guess is that marketing feels that hurt the release of Inquisition with people online complaining about how "BioWare lied" or commentary to that sentiment. Even if in the videos its mentioned at the start or during the video that its still in development it seems a vocal group of people have deemed that as a guarantee anything they see is to be in the game. Of course then you have places chasing for clicks making articles about how BioWare let down their fans and it just goes in a circle. I am definitely not in the "Bioware lied" camp, but - as much as I loved Inquisition (and I did - 5 completed PTs, 700+ hours) - it was still a "disappointment" based on my expectations. Expectations that were formed by the marketing. Were my expectations reasonable? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But that's actually kind of irrelevant after the fact. I enjoyed the DAI build-up and dissection of every little thing, but in hindsight, it was exhausting. I could've unplugged and walked away from the speculation at any time, so that was on me, but I would far rather know nothing about the game (save maybe the odd screenshot and the names of companions - that type of thing) until 3-6 months out from release. i.e. The game is feature complete and they're bug stomping prior to release. Anything much more than that and we (or at least, I) risk disappointment. Again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 8, 2022 22:59:12 GMT
That was far more preferable than how they handled MEA's and Anthem's marketing. While I agree. My guess is that marketing feels that hurt the release of Inquisition with people online complaining about how "BioWare lied" or commentary to that sentiment. Even if in the videos its mentioned at the start or during the video that its still in development it seems a vocal group of people have deemed that as a guarantee anything they see is to be in the game. Of course then you have places chasing for clicks making articles about how BioWare let down their fans and it just goes in a circle. People also said that a lot with MEA and Anthem, so keeping things close to the best like that didn’t solve that problem but just made more. It even made that claim of BioWare lying worse as I recall.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 8, 2022 23:24:23 GMT
While I agree. My guess is that marketing feels that hurt the release of Inquisition with people online complaining about how "BioWare lied" or commentary to that sentiment. Even if in the videos its mentioned at the start or during the video that its still in development it seems a vocal group of people have deemed that as a guarantee anything they see is to be in the game. Of course then you have places chasing for clicks making articles about how BioWare let down their fans and it just goes in a circle. I am definitely not in the "Bioware lied" camp, but - as much as I loved Inquisition (and I did - 5 completed PTs, 700+ hours) - it was still a "disappointment" based on my expectations. Expectations that were formed by the marketing. Were my expectations reasonable? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But that's actually kind of irrelevant after the fact. I enjoyed the DAI build-up and dissection of every little thing, but in hindsight, it was exhausting. I could've unplugged and walked away from the speculation at any time, so that was on me, but I would far rather know nothing about the game (save maybe the odd screenshot and the names of companions - that type of thing) until 3-6 months out from release. i.e. The game is feature complete and they're bug stomping prior to release. Anything much more than that and we (or at least, I) risk disappointment. Again. Nor aim I, that is only because Bioware is not saying a farting thing as to what is going on (I don't Tweet) and I don't expect much but something would be nice Me myself I'm giving up on them.
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