talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 5, 2021 20:25:52 GMT
I only started playing the ME games for the first time this year. But even though I never played them at the time I remember the hate ME3 got for it's ending. I also know that in response the developer created an extended cut. What is the extended cut? Was it for the ending? Or is it as I suspect the Citadel DLC? Also I know most fans don't like any of the 3 final endings either, but how bad was the original ending? I know I can look it up but I want to hear it from the fans.
|
|
inherit
1319
0
Nov 25, 2024 22:48:43 GMT
7,414
RedCaesar97
1,966
Aug 28, 2016 19:33:39 GMT
August 2016
redcaesar97
Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
|
Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 6, 2021 15:30:23 GMT
The Extended Cut starts with the final beam run and ends until the credits.
The Extended Cut: 1. Updated the final beam run to add dialogue/interaction with Shepard and squadmates, Shepard calling the Normandy and the Normandy picking up squadmates. Originally, you just ran until the cutscene where Harbinger shoots you. This caused a lot of confusion where squadmates that were with you on the beam run suddenly appeared on an escaping Normandy.
2. Added dialogue to the Catalyst/Starbrat. The Catalyst now includes options that explain how each of the three possible endings work. Before it just told you the options with some paragon/renegade dialog but no in-universe explanation to how they work.
3. Added the Refuse ending.
4. Added extra dialogue, slideshow clips and cinematics to differentiate the endings more.
5. Some cinematics were updated. For example, Joker no longer frantically looks behind him when the Normandy is escaping the relay explosion. Originally, The Illusive Man was shown shooting the Destroy tube and Anderson was shown using the Control tube (this was highlighted by proponents of the Indoctrination Theory). I believe these roles were switched in the Extended Cut so Anderson is now Destroy and TIM is now Control; but they may have also been switched in a later patch.
- - -
As for my personal thoughts, I am more lukewarm on both endings than some other people. I did not hate the original ending; I think it is a good ending, but not a good ending to the Mass Effect Trilogy. I think the Extended Cut fixed some issues with the original ending, while it also made some things worse or less to my liking.
Ultimately, I am in agreement with themikefest that the game should finish with the "Hackett ending". End the game with the conversation between Anderson and Shepard and then Shepard staring out into space as he bleeds. Cut to the relay firing, show the energy being blasted out by the relay system (but do not show the relay being broken), show the galaxy map with the energy bouncing through all the relays. End with the close-up of Hackett talking about how it was a narrow victory (or whatever; it has been awhile since I got that ending).
|
|
inherit
12084
0
Nov 25, 2024 10:39:50 GMT
6,789
lordmoral
At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
2,074
Aug 22, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
August 2021
lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Lord34145
|
Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 15:13:17 GMT
Let us just say that when the game returned you to the Point of No Return you got a message telling you to buy more DLC to keep experiencing Shepard story, that lead people to flare as they suspected that the true ending was being sold on top of ME3 regular release, there have been games that have done that, after they were left dumb f--- with what they just experienced.
@redceasar97 also summed what else happened, people also have issues with thing in ME3 other than the endings but its Bioware, we must appreciate all their art.
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 9, 2021 19:16:10 GMT
Okay, well now I understand. Like I stated before I remember there was much controversy surrounding ME3, but I never researched it. To an extent the extended cut sounds better I guess than the original ending. I have mixed feelings when it comes to ME3. I like the Genophage and Rannoch story arcs, and I really like Javik, and to an extent I like the Destroy ending (just don't like that EDI and the Geth after making peace are collateral damage), but some other things I am not a fan of.
|
|
inherit
12084
0
Nov 25, 2024 10:39:50 GMT
6,789
lordmoral
At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
2,074
Aug 22, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
August 2021
lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Lord34145
|
Post by lordmoral on Nov 9, 2021 19:44:44 GMT
Okay, well now I understand. Like I stated before I remember there was much controversy surrounding ME3, but I never researched it. To an extent the extended cut sounds better I guess than the original ending. I have mixed feelings when it comes to ME3. I like the Genophage and Rannoch story arcs, and I really like Javik, and to an extent I like the Destroy ending (just don't like that EDI and the Geth after making peace are collateral damage), but some other things I am not a fan of. Oh and we had to pay $15 for Javik which, unlike Kasumi, actually was involved in the entire story. People who bought the CE were set as they got the character in a code to download but we still had to download him.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,975 Likes: 21,013
inherit
2309
0
21,013
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,975
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 9, 2021 19:45:36 GMT
Okay, well now I understand. Like I stated before I remember there was much controversy surrounding ME3, but I never researched it. To an extent the extended cut sounds better I guess than the original ending. I have mixed feelings when it comes to ME3. I like the Genophage and Rannoch story arcs, and I really like Javik, and to an extent I like the Destroy ending (just don't like that EDI and the Geth after making peace are collateral damage), but some other things I am not a fan of. TH eextended cut is definitely better I don' tthink it necessarily fixed everybody's idssues or gave everyone wha tthe ywanted but it certainl ydid enough in my book to make ME 3 fun and playable despite how weak the endings are. I've never had any problems with ME3 or it's endings but I will admit they were nev ergrea tand I kind of expected a kind of Shepard sacrifices themselves to save the galaxy type of ending to the trilogy so the fac tthat's what we got was neve rreally a problem for me. Granted at ttheend of the day io tcould have been better but at theend of the day I suspect Biowaer were jus tglad that the story they wanted to tell was done.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,299
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Nov 9, 2021 20:52:46 GMT
The ending was so bad that I decided to take my anger out on doing another playthrough about 15 minutes after finishing the first playthrough. I don't recall what my reaction was the first time I played ME3. The only thing is when the guy said one more story, I thought Bioware is bringing Shepard back for another game. When I completed my first playthrough, I had no idea about the green. I did not have enough ems for it. Looking back I'm glad. Why? After my first playthrough, I looked on youtube at some of the gameplay. That's when I saw the green ending. When reading the comments, a few mentioned they had no intention of choosing it. They wanted the red. What happened is they move Shepard too far forward causing the cutscene to take over. Had I enough ems, that might have happen to me. So my ps3 and ps4 is green and blue clean. So they don't need to see a doctor. I also learned that I had to play multiplayer to get the breath scene. I did. It wasn't bad, but I had no interest in playing it anymore than I had to. To get the breath scene, the player had to prevent TIM from shooting Anderson. Doing that, and having ems at 4000 would gave the player the breath scene. If TIM shoots Anderson, the player would need 5000 ems. So what Bioware is telling the player is Anderson is worth, at that time, 1000 war assets. Too bad there wasn't 4 Andersons in the game, right? Along comes cut. It lowers the requirement for the breath scene to 3100. If the player chooses to let TIM shoot Anderson, the player would need 3200 ems for the breath. So Anderson goes from being worth 1000 war assets to 100 war assets. I want to add that if a player were to head to Earth with 2900 ems, he/she will still get the breath scene. That's because preventing TIM from shooting Anderson will give the player 200 war assets. The cut add's more dialogue with thing. Some of that dialogue was....why? The one line with thing saying you do not know them, and there's not enough time to explain appears to be, at least to me, Bioware admitting they had no idea about explaining the crucible. They added another ending, refuse. When listening to thing, it says it cannot make a choice, yet if you choose refuse, it somehow shuts off the crucible or at least the power from the Citadel giving power to the crucible. The other thing is after talking it will raise the platforms for either/both blue and red. So it has more control than it leads on. Things voice changes to sound like Harbinger. Is it upset Shepard didn't make a choice? Being a thing, why would it show any emotion? After making the choice, the relays are seen exploding regardless of ems. Joker is seen in panic mode. The SR2 never leaves the planet. I won't go into detail about the numbers. I'll let this post explain it. NOTE. The post is referring to the cut. I never went into detail with the original endings. Of course there was no memorial scene with the original endings. All it did was show the SR2 on the unknown planet, then cut to the credits. With the cut showing the SR2 leaving the unknown planet under it's own power, it makes me wonder what was the purpose of the unknown planet?
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 9, 2021 22:12:19 GMT
Okay, well now I understand. Like I stated before I remember there was much controversy surrounding ME3, but I never researched it. To an extent the extended cut sounds better I guess than the original ending. I have mixed feelings when it comes to ME3. I like the Genophage and Rannoch story arcs, and I really like Javik, and to an extent I like the Destroy ending (just don't like that EDI and the Geth after making peace are collateral damage), but some other things I am not a fan of. TH eextended cut is definitely better I don' tthink it necessarily fixed everybody's idssues or gave everyone wha tthe ywanted but it certainl ydid enough in my book to make ME 3 fun and playable despite how weak the endings are. I've never had any problems with ME3 or it's endings but I will admit they were nev ergrea tand I kind of expected a kind of Shepard sacrifices themselves to save the galaxy type of ending to the trilogy so the fac tthat's what we got was neve rreally a problem for me. Granted at ttheend of the day io tcould have been better but at theend of the day I suspect Biowaer were jus tglad that the story they wanted to tell was done. Don't misunderstand me I still had fun playing the game, and talking to companions. The first ending I got was the infamous Synthetic one. In that ending Shepard sacrifices themselves. That did not surprise me because there were so many hints in the game that something like that was going to happen. Would have been better if the Citadel dlc took place after the Reapers.
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 9, 2021 22:15:54 GMT
Okay, well now I understand. Like I stated before I remember there was much controversy surrounding ME3, but I never researched it. To an extent the extended cut sounds better I guess than the original ending. I have mixed feelings when it comes to ME3. I like the Genophage and Rannoch story arcs, and I really like Javik, and to an extent I like the Destroy ending (just don't like that EDI and the Geth after making peace are collateral damage), but some other things I am not a fan of. Oh and we had to pay $15 for Javik which, unlike Kasumi, actually was involved in the entire story. People who bought the CE were set as they got the character in a code to download but we still had to download him. Yes, I've read this before. I find the fact that such an important companion was a first day dlc insane. Kasumi just sat in the dark mostly to herself after her LM in ME2. But Javik had so much to say. I especially like to bring him to Thessia where he comments on Asari history.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,975 Likes: 21,013
inherit
2309
0
21,013
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,975
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 9, 2021 22:17:37 GMT
TH eextended cut is definitely better I don' tthink it necessarily fixed everybody's idssues or gave everyone wha tthe ywanted but it certainl ydid enough in my book to make ME 3 fun and playable despite how weak the endings are. I've never had any problems with ME3 or it's endings but I will admit they were nev ergrea tand I kind of expected a kind of Shepard sacrifices themselves to save the galaxy type of ending to the trilogy so the fac tthat's what we got was neve rreally a problem for me. Granted at ttheend of the day io tcould have been better but at theend of the day I suspect Biowaer were jus tglad that the story they wanted to tell was done. Don't misunderstand me I still had fun playing the game, and talking to companions. The first ending I got was the infamous Synthetic one. In that ending Shepard sacrifices themselves. That did not surprise me because there were so many hints in the game that something like that was going to happen. Would have been better if the Citadel dlc took place after the Reapers. Maybe yeah it might but I can understand why they went theway they did though .They wanted t ocompletely break away from Shep perhaps even from ME altogethe rwhic hwas why in the end after ME3 was done they may have not been expecting to make another one as in Andromeda but it iswhat it is.
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 9, 2021 22:24:33 GMT
Oh I know what you mean. They wanted to close that chapter of the Mass Effect series, and then introduce a new protagonist and crew (Andromeda). I understand their motive.
|
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,275
AnDromedary
4,446
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Nov 10, 2021 19:11:05 GMT
I actually think in some ways the original ending worked better than the extended cut in that it implied very bleak concequences that IMO fit better with the very bleak choices that you had to make. Was it still bad? Oh yes it was. I remember, I was mainly confused after seeing it for the first time. It didn't help that I accidentally triggered the Synthesis ending because I just wanted to explore the area after talking to the Catalyst but hit the invisible trigger and Shepard just flung himself into the green beam. It certainly added to my perception that I had now fully lost control of the character but ironically that kinda fit because I felt completely disconnected from Shepard ever since he woke up after the beam run (the very weird dialogue choices and lines with TIM and Star Kid did their part there).
Anyway, the EC didn't really address the problems I had with the ending in the first place. It certainly made things more "clear" but it also forced very happy endings onto very bleak choices, where all the negatives of each choice were completely swept under the rug. So it may be a little more satisfying to the average player but to me, it still feels very wrong.
|
|
inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
|
Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 10, 2021 19:20:17 GMT
The ending was so bad that I decided to take my anger out on doing another playthrough about 15 minutes after finishing the first playthrough. I don't recall what my reaction was the first time I played ME3. The only thing is when the guy said one more story, I thought Bioware is bringing Shepard back for another game. When I completed my first playthrough, I had no idea about the green. I did not have enough ems for it. Looking back I'm glad. Why? After my first playthrough, I looked on youtube at some of the gameplay. That's when I saw the green ending. When reading the comments, a few mentioned they had no intention of choosing it. They wanted the red. What happened is they move Shepard too far forward causing the cutscene to take over. Had I enough ems, that might have happen to me. So my ps3 and ps4 is green and blue clean. So they don't need to see a doctor. I also learned that I had to play multiplayer to get the breath scene. I did. It wasn't bad, but I had no interest in playing it anymore than I had to. To get the breath scene, the player had to prevent TIM from shooting Anderson. Doing that, and having ems at 4000 would gave the player the breath scene. If TIM shoots Anderson, the player would need 5000 ems. So what Bioware is telling the player is Anderson is worth, at that time, 1000 war assets. Too bad there wasn't 4 Andersons in the game, right? Along comes cut. It lowers the requirement for the breath scene to 3100. If the player chooses to let TIM shoot Anderson, the player would need 3200 ems for the breath. So Anderson goes from being worth 1000 war assets to 100 war assets. I want to add that if a player were to head to Earth with 2900 ems, he/she will still get the breath scene. That's because preventing TIM from shooting Anderson will give the player 200 war assets. The cut add's more dialogue with thing. Some of that dialogue was....why? The one line with thing saying you do not know them, and there's not enough time to explain appears to be, at least to me, Bioware admitting they had no idea about explaining the crucible. They added another ending, refuse. When listening to thing, it says it cannot make a choice, yet if you choose refuse, it somehow shuts off the crucible or at least the power from the Citadel giving power to the crucible. The other thing is after talking it will raise the platforms for either/both blue and red. So it has more control than it leads on. Things voice changes to sound like Harbinger. Is it upset Shepard didn't make a choice? Being a thing, why would it show any emotion? After making the choice, the relays are seen exploding regardless of ems. Joker is seen in panic mode. The SR2 never leaves the planet. I won't go into detail about the numbers. I'll let this post explain it. NOTE. The post is referring to the cut. I never went into detail with the original endings. Of course there was no memorial scene with the original endings. All it did was show the SR2 on the unknown planet, then cut to the credits. With the cut showing the SR2 leaving the unknown planet under it's own power, it makes me wonder what was the purpose of the unknown planet? The first time I beat ME3 was two days after the game came out and with very very little sleep. I meant to hit destroy but instead got control and when it finished I went online to see if I did something wrong and got emotional when I realized that it was the ending.
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Nov 25, 2024 20:19:45 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on Nov 10, 2021 19:35:21 GMT
Honestly, that just says more than the paragraphs of texts I would need to write, for the millionth time. They promised they wouldn't do the exact thing that they ended up doing. THey promised people everything would matter, and to hold onto our saves after ME3 was over (for some reason). They sold people impossible dreams, and instead of just being realistic about what they can achieve, they doubled down and tripled down constantly up until release, then they blamed the fans for being too dumb to understand their genius writing. That's really all there is to it man, distilled down into as few words as I can.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,299
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Nov 10, 2021 20:02:38 GMT
For those interested, here's some quotes from Bioware employees about ME3 before it was released. Stuff about the ending
|
|
talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 4,068 Likes: 11,464
inherit
3580
0
11,464
talyn82
4,068
Feb 15, 2017 19:01:44 GMT
February 2017
talyn82
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Talyn82
Talyn82
|
Post by talyn82 on Nov 10, 2021 22:09:10 GMT
For those interested, here's some quotes from Bioware employees about ME3 before it was released. Stuff about the ending This reminds me of the old saying "The internet never forgets." These devs thought if they deleted their comments or denied them that they would be lost in the currents of time. But this site you linked proves no matter how old and if deleted or buried the internet never forgets.
|
|
Guardian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 566 Likes: 941
inherit
2219
0
941
Guardian
566
Nov 30, 2016 22:10:34 GMT
November 2016
guardian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Guardian on Nov 10, 2021 22:43:48 GMT
But...but....the artistic interpretation! How did you not get what the true meaning was? *sarcasm*
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 10, 2021 22:49:46 GMT
Since I forgot the link from the last time I posted it, here are some of the pre-release promises and the in-game impact, that I reposted for the umpteenth time on imgur (sorry imgur)
|
|
inherit
12084
0
Nov 25, 2024 10:39:50 GMT
6,789
lordmoral
At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
2,074
Aug 22, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
August 2021
lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Lord34145
|
Post by lordmoral on Nov 10, 2021 23:11:45 GMT
"Listen to fan feedback" (laughs as I remember what they did to the Virmire Survivor and used them badly on a confrontational role, which had done right wouldn't be so cringe, and assasinated Ashley Williams (I seem to recall there was a Bioware employee who hated her Christian views and the fact she was a white woman and who was fired) leading to most of here content post Citadel being bugged until it is being rescued by modders): Here is one such example showing her meeting with her sister (Project Variety MOD from a PC gamer on the Original ME3):
|
|
inherit
265
0
Nov 15, 2024 18:18:41 GMT
12,048
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,945
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Nov 11, 2021 11:22:32 GMT
Choosing the green ending felt like discarding Shepard in a trash can.
|
|
inherit
1129
0
Nov 25, 2024 23:55:29 GMT
2,052
traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
|
Post by traks on Nov 11, 2021 13:25:58 GMT
I joined the old BSN because of my experience with the ending. Had to talk with other fans about it... It's a long time ago, but that ending sequence was so strange. I remember being on the beam run when I didn't have any powers or my weapons to fight "Marauder shields", I thought I had done something wrong. Then after getting by the Marauder, of course I was a little confused that there was no fighting anymore on the Citadel. Although that in itself - not having one final boss fight - wasn't THAT bad, because the series had high points with conversations with Vigil or Sovereign, the presentation once the starchild showed up was off. First of all that it heaved us up to the secret room with the platform, then the "we kill all organics every 50k years, so they won't be killed by the synthetics they created"-nonsense and then the decision. For the first time in the whole series we didn't make a major decision with the dialogue wheel. Think about it: didn't you expect to go to a console and then to be able to make your decision using the wheel leading to your Shep pushing the button for your preferred choice? That we didn't have to push a button lead to me accidentally choosing control, because of course I had no clue that I had to go right for destroy on that first playthrough. And as if that wasn't enough after that it was basically simply game over. Understandable because the story was told through Shepard's eyes, so if Shep dies, of course the game has to end. But there should've been at least a text based epilogue telling you just a bit of what your decision meant for the galaxy. Basically just a little balance of what you accomplished would've been fine for me: x,y sacrificed, Reaper threat cleared forever, giving the galactic community the opportunity to build their own future... bla, bla, bla. Nothing too fancy, just a little résumé. So when the game just stopped, I felt a little empty. That's why I had to talk with other fans of the series about it... BTW: one of the best things to come out of that was this vid.
|
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,275
AnDromedary
4,446
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Nov 11, 2021 16:13:10 GMT
BTW: one of the best things to come out of that was this vid. Aw man, that vid reminds me of koobismo's fantastic Marauder Shields comics. It started as a little parody things but there were some genuinely nice stories in there and even though I am usually not big on comics, I really liked his art style. IMO, this is what the official ME comics should have looked like rather than the fairly generic art they came with.
I think they even made audio versions of some of the comics, with voice actors who came crazy close to the originals (especially the Liara one). Should also be in the gallery somewhere. Good stuff.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,290 Likes: 50,647
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,647
Iakus
21,290
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Nov 11, 2021 16:57:46 GMT
ME3's ending was a radioactive dumpster fire.
Post EC, it's a slightly longer radioactive dumpster fire where they try to explain why it isn't THAT radioactive.
Oh, and if you don't accept the endings, they added a "rocks fall, everyone dies" ending to troll you.
Then they made a big deal on how they love their fans and listen so attentively to them...
|
|
inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
|
Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 11, 2021 17:18:40 GMT
I joined the old BSN because of my experience with the ending. Had to talk with other fans about it... It's a long time ago, but that ending sequence was so strange. I remember being on the beam run when I didn't have any powers or my weapons to fight "Marauder shields", I thought I had done something wrong. Then after getting by the Marauder, of course I was a little confused that there was no fighting anymore on the Citadel. Although that in itself - not having one final boss fight - wasn't THAT bad, because the series had high points with conversations with Vigil or Sovereign, the presentation once the starchild showed up was off. First of all that it heaved us up to the secret room with the platform, then the "we kill all organics every 50k years, so they won't be killed by the synthetics they created"-nonsense and then the decision. For the first time in the whole series we didn't make a major decision with the dialogue wheel. Think about it: didn't you expect to go to a console and then to be able to make your decision using the wheel leading to your Shep pushing the button for your preferred choice? That we didn't have to push a button lead to me accidentally choosing control, because of course I had no clue that I had to go right for destroy on that first playthrough. And as if that wasn't enough after that it was basically simply game over. Understandable because the story was told through Shepard's eyes, so if Shep dies, of course the game has to end. But there should've been at least a text based epilogue telling you just a bit of what your decision meant for the galaxy. Basically just a little balance of what you accomplished would've been fine for me: x,y sacrificed, Reaper threat cleared forever, giving the galactic community the opportunity to build their own future... bla, bla, bla. Nothing too fancy, just a little résumé. So when the game just stopped, I felt a little empty. That's why I had to talk with other fans of the series about it... BTW: one of the best things to come out of that was this vid. I joined the old BSN for the same reason.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,633
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 13, 2021 16:45:37 GMT
Personally I always seperated the actual business decisions from the creative ones. Yeah, it stunk having to pay 15 upfront at launch, making it a 75 usd title to have a "complete" version. Sure... it's shitty, but honestly, Javik was not integral to the main plot, I know he used to be and SHOULD have been, but hey, they made it work without it and succesfully turned him into an add-on, and frankly with how hard ME3 jumps shark about upending the entire Mass Effect setting, just because "this is the last chapter of the trilogy", I really felt the inclusion of a LIVING prothean was too much, so I'm really happy it became optional. I played Legendary Edition WITHOUT him, or Leviathan DLC because I think those pieces of content drag down the overall space mystery and intrigue of the story-line.
It's way more spectacular to find that Prothean VI on Thessia when you still haven't ever met a prothean before, and your henchmen going "I want answers!" just like you do. With Javik around, that scene has some unique dialogue to him, who is basically addressing the cut version of himself (the VI's role in that scene WAS originally Javik. He was the "Catalyst" red herring in early development.)
And like... yeah, I seperate all that kind of stuff from what the launch experience was, because I do think ME3 is a complete game by itself without any of the DLC, that stupid popup about DLC at the end be damned. I never feel personally offended by developers telling me they're trying to run a business, it really has nothing to do with what the actual problems of the story/writing was and I feel that people are always conflating those things with the actual narrative/content critique.
It's as a complete story that ME3 fell short for me. Others have already explained what Extended Cut added and changed; to me it was just enough that I no longer reject the ending outright but I still don't love it.
The key change for me is regarding the intent of the Catalyst, or seemingly the intent. Whereas in the original cut it just starts spewling at you with a complete blanket statement about organics and synthetics along with Shepard nodding along to this "truth" that it felt like the writers were assuming that "this must be the central conflict of the whole story, that we are finally resolving, that players have been waiting to see concluded", the Extended Cut version of the Catalyst dialogue adds enough scrutiny and leading-questions from Shepard that a different intent cropped up in my head at least.
Originally, it feels like a scene, like I said, that tries to hit the nail on the head on "What the truth has been all along!" and you just go... "what? Since when was our "created" such a big problem that it poses a full genocide?" You'd ask yourself if that was really the main message of 'Mass Effect', becuase it felt like this ending dialogue came out of a COMPLETELY different storyline. Mass Effect's version of Organics vs Synthetics was just a subservient subplot to the larger central conflict of Uniting diverse but conflicted species versus the genocide and bigotry of the Reapers. We want to unite everyone REGARDLESS of how different we are, learning to accept and co-exist through paragon choices or becoming closer to Cerberus or the Reapers by being Renegade and accepting death as long as "one" group survives, held up to the mirror of the Reapers who try to amalgate and destroy/harvest everything that has grown like crops, so it can all be the same, in Reaper form.
The initial dialogue with the Catalyst frustrated the shit out of me because Shepard already knew most of the initial statements it made like "No, we harvest only advanced life, leaving the younger species alone" and "We preserve life in Reaper form", all redundant but perhaps necessary repetition to people who still didn't grasp the distinction between full genocide versus selective genocide. And it was a really short conversation before you just had to choose between Destroy/Control/Synthesis so the lack of information and the lack of discussion about how and why the Catalyst's idea of "conflict" applied to the story I just came from, was lacking context. Our version of Synthetics versus Organics before this end scene, can be described like a character in a story, in and of itself. It goes from antagonistic and untrusting of Organic life, the odd AI rebellious software we encountered in ME1's side-content: The VI on Luna (EDI), the extortion self-destruct guy we traced on the Citadel, and Vigil who killed the remaining prothean scientists due to technical contingency lingo posing, and of course the Geth, to their conclusions in ME3 in which conflict is resolved both with EDI attaining a genuine relationship with a human pilot and the Geth and Quarians settling their 300-year-old conflict that flirted with genocide... without genocide. They form peace.
THEN we got to the ending with the Catalyst, claiming that organics/synthetics can't get along ever, and because they can't the Reapers serve their purpose by not allowing organics to exist once they're capable of developing AI, and if the Reapers shouldn't exist, then we should pick between Destroy/Control/Synthesis to decide how to alternatively resolve their problem... the problem which by any indication of ME3's STORYLINE is not actually legitimate anymore, because the Rannoch outcome and EDI is a kind of poetic confirmation that Organics/Synthetics CAN co-exist, as long as we give each other understanding and space for our differences.
That's why the endings are frustrating to pick between because we don't truly need to, we only do because Shepard never challenges the Catalysts's logic, and since we never do that, we only know that we have the choice between either dying by refusing to choose, or choosing in compliance with what the Reapers think defines organic and synthetic life. They're probably wrong and we don't get to have that discussion with them, to reiterate the REAL message of the story.
That's the problem the ending originally had. It's also the problem it still has, and a problem exacerbated by Javik's DLC and Leviathan DLC in which the writers seemingly attempted to fix the lack of context for "Organics vs Synthetics" being the main issue of the plot by presenting it more clearly earlier in the story. Javik having some conversation about the cyclical nature of synthetic rebellion and the Leviathan literally explaining the origin of the Catalyst and Reapers being based on THEIR issues with synthetic life. But all of this did nothing for me, because it's the same issue with the Catalyst where the narrative tells you that there is a cyclical problem from ages past that will happen again in the future... but we never experience anything close to it, it doesn't seem apparent and it isn't explored within the main critical path of ME3's own story, so it feels like a completely non-essential subject becomes the whole point of the entire Trilogy's story in the span of 10 minutes at the finale of the story, in a way that simply wasn't built up properly.
So why do I think Extended Cut fixed it to some degree?
I just think that by simply adding a bit more dialogue in which Shepard asks leading questions like "...But you were created." and pointing out the circular irony of the Catalyst, it comes across more as if to say that the Reapers themselves are indeed the result of a synthetic singularity, and since organics are proven to have made the Reapers, then regardless of whether we think our future "created" will result in "genocide", we can at least say "The creation of the Reapers prove that this can go very, very, very wrong if we take no precautions."
The Reapers are themselves the synthetic conflict they describe, and they may not commit full genocide, but the fact that they have controlled essentially all life in the entire galaxy for billions of years alone proves that perhaps there's reason to choose Synthesis, and further justifies that Destroy might as well kill all synthetic life, because the Reapers represent synthetic life too. It's an all-or-nothing ending choice, and at least I got a feeling of self-awareness of this convoluted context in the Extended Cut.
But you also see the problem here. To fully understand the ending you have to pile on pages and pages of commentary because the messaging here just isn't obvious. We can't take something everyone already felt from ME3's story like the Genophage situation in which clearly the krogan expansions could pose a problem and have 3 endings based on that where people would have legitimate arguments for and against why enforcing, let's say, control on all species' populations, or taking away all technology for all species to avoid uplifting or nuclear wars, would be more intellectual as a debate. That would be more grounded in a conflict already established and something that COULD become a problem in the future, asking you to form your own opinion on the outcome of events that already happened in Shepard's experience.
Instead, we get this out-of-context "Synthetics are so dangerous" ending that is seemingly contradicted by the same story we just came from. The ending feels like it belongs to a different movie, and so it's only really the circular awareness shown in Extended Cut that makes it halfway decent, but it's just not even close to being the kind of satisfying Lord of the Rings style "no further questions" ending that a dramatic trilogy like this deserved. This was a space-opera, not a Stanley Kubrick film.
|
|