AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Nov 13, 2021 21:58:48 GMT
Honestly, that just says more than the paragraphs of texts I would need to write, for the millionth time. They promised they wouldn't do the exact thing that they ended up doing. THey promised people everything would matter, and to hold onto our saves after ME3 was over (for some reason). They sold people impossible dreams, and instead of just being realistic about what they can achieve, they doubled down and tripled down constantly up until release, then they blamed the fans for being too dumb to understand their genius writing. That's really all there is to it man, distilled down into as few words as I can. On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 13, 2021 22:47:07 GMT
The ending is still a train wreck but the original ending was truly atrocious. A choose your suicide palette swap coupled with a stupid garden of eden sequence. The extended cut provided some of the basic fixes though it refuses to address the fundamental problems. Epilogue slides added, what a crazy expectation at the end of a trilogy. It’s still a very sticking plaster over a gaping sore. Teleporting squaddies, let’s create an even stupider sequence of the Normandy landing in the beam run etc.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Nov 13, 2021 23:27:59 GMT
Honestly, that just says more than the paragraphs of texts I would need to write, for the millionth time. They promised they wouldn't do the exact thing that they ended up doing. THey promised people everything would matter, and to hold onto our saves after ME3 was over (for some reason). They sold people impossible dreams, and instead of just being realistic about what they can achieve, they doubled down and tripled down constantly up until release, then they blamed the fans for being too dumb to understand their genius writing. That's really all there is to it man, distilled down into as few words as I can. On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. Especially since shooting Glowjob triggers it too. Talk about a passive-aggressive response to player feedback!
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Post by Iakus on Nov 13, 2021 23:29:02 GMT
The ending is still a train wreck but the original ending was truly atrocious. A choose your suicide palette swap coupled with a stupid garden of eden sequence. The extended cut provided some of the basic fixes though it refuses to address the fundamental problems. Epilogue slides added, what a crazy expectation at the end of a trilogy. It’s still a very sticking plaster over a gaping sore. Teleporting squaddies, let’s create an even stupider sequence of the Normandy landing in the beam run etc. It's the same turd sandwich endings, but with sprinkles added.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Nov 14, 2021 2:07:40 GMT
On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot.
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AngryFrozenWater
N5
Sir Nose D'VoidOfFunk
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by AngryFrozenWater on Nov 14, 2021 2:33:58 GMT
On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot. The answer is obvious: Defeating the Starchild should not be the same as continuing the cycles. That was the last thing people wanted. So yes, that is a middle finger to the fans.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 14, 2021 12:21:44 GMT
The ending is still a train wreck but the original ending was truly atrocious. A choose your suicide palette swap coupled with a stupid garden of eden sequence. The extended cut provided some of the basic fixes though it refuses to address the fundamental problems. Epilogue slides added, what a crazy expectation at the end of a trilogy. It’s still a very sticking plaster over a gaping sore. Teleporting squaddies, let’s create an even stupider sequence of the Normandy landing in the beam run etc. It's the same turd sandwich endings, but with sprinkles added. Yeah it was what can we do while still refusing to acknowledge that it was a turd.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 14, 2021 13:26:36 GMT
On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot. I've never chosen refuse. Have no reason to not make a choice. Shepard. For a moment Shepard talks big, but then stands there like a dumba** doing nothing except watching the reapers destroy the fleets. Thing changes it's voice to sound like Harbinger. SO BE IT!!! It's a thing. Why would it be upset about that? Instead it comes across as a little kid crying because mommy didn't put any whip cream on top of their cake. The dialogue from the female voice telling the story to the child. The female says they fought a great war so we wouldn't have to. Child replies with, Is that why we have peace?. If what she says is true, the crucible was used before the reapers entered the galaxy. So someone finds this time capsule, listens to it, then decides to bring it to his/her leaders who decide hey, lets build this thing that will stop these reaper things. When on the Citadel talking with thing, was there more than one organic? If there was more than one, which decided to be the one to take one for the team to choose the blue green? I would be surprised if one of them laughed at the nonsense thing was saying about the green. In the case of red, they likely would fire at the tube from a distance instead of having someone get up and close to it. Did thing tell them about the organic who could have ended the war, but chose not to? I wouldn't be surprised if they would think our cycle was filled with a bunch of dumba**es for not doing anything. Then there's Liara. If the story is being told from what t'soni says in the capsule, then how does she know, with great detail, what happened after Shepard went up the beam especially if she's killed by Harbinger? Why is she telling Shepard's story? She wasn't around for the whole trilogy especially in ME2. One thing I'm curious about with refuse is Shepard. Did Shepard end up dying on the Citadel or did someone come by to rescue him/her, then Shepard is healed to fight the reapers to the end? I don't agree with folks saying it was flipping the bird at fans. If there's any bird flipping going on it was towards the ME2 characters for the way they were handled in ME3.
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 14, 2021 14:02:57 GMT
I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot. I've never chosen refuse. Have no reason to not make a choice. Shepard. For a moment Shepard talks big, but then stands there like a dumba** doing nothing except watching the reapers destroy the fleets. Thing changes it's voice to sound like Harbinger. SO BE IT!!! It's a thing. Why would it be upset about that? Instead it comes across as a little kid crying because mommy didn't put any whip cream on top of their cake. The dialogue from the female voice telling the story to the child. The female says they fought a great war so we wouldn't have to. Child replies with, Is that why we have peace?. If what she says is true, the crucible was used before the reapers entered the galaxy. So someone finds this time capsule, listens to it, then decides to bring it to his/her leaders who decide hey, lets build this thing that will stop these reaper things. When on the Citadel talking with thing, was there more than one organic? If there was more than one, which decided to be the one to take one for the team to choose the blue green? I would be surprised if one of them laughed at the nonsense thing was saying about the green. In the case of red, they likely would fire at the tube from a distance instead of having someone get up and close to it. Did thing tell them about the organic who could have ended the war, but chose not to? I wouldn't be surprised if they would think our cycle was filled with a bunch of dumba**es for not doing anything. Then there's Liara. If the story is being told from what t'soni says in the capsule, then how does she know, with great detail, what happened after Shepard went up the beam especially if she's killed by Harbinger? Why is she telling Shepard's story? She wasn't around for the whole trilogy especially in ME2. One thing I'm curious about with refuse is Shepard. Did Shepard end up dying on the Citadel or did someone come by to rescue him/her, then Shepard is healed to fight the reapers to the end? I don't agree with folks saying it was flipping the bird at fans. If there's any bird flipping going on it was towards the ME2 characters for the way they were handled in ME3. Let's not get started with the Virmire Survivor when we are talking about how Bioware handled the ME2 cast into 3. Bioware could have made Shepard grow a brain cell when we ran into the Derelict ship just sleeping there and have him alert Anderson of a Cerberus lab (that seemed to get the Alliance and the Council attention more quickly than the Reaper menace) and to bring tow ships with an escorting Cruiser or two. Being close to Horizon the VS would have been tasked to accompany the detail. I bet that if the ship was moved to outside the Brown Star surrounding it would have made it easier to study it using probes and mechs (as we know what happened to the Batarians and Cerberus personal investigating their Reaper corpses) on a place under Citadel control now, even if Shepard had to destroy the core when he was in there the ships removing the beast from inside the sphere of influence of the winds would make the beast easier to recover. Then you have a chat over comms with the VS and Anderson. At the end of the Suicide Mission have Shepard head over to the Citadel to get an update on the ship and give a mission report to the Council before heading off to continue his mission up until Arrival.....
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 14, 2021 15:21:54 GMT
On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot. Because it's Shepard allowing genocide to continue without any certainty that the next cycle could defeat the Reapers. It's the whole "gnawing your arm off to escape a trap", except this is on a galaxy-wide scale where Shepard gnaws off the galaxy to [maybe] escape the Reaper trap.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 14, 2021 16:24:26 GMT
On top of that: When gamers asked for a way to defeat Starchild, BW added the refuse option to the EC, only as a middle finger to their fans to let the cycles continue. I guess I should finally ask: why do people dislike the Refuse ending? I actually like the refuse ending, so I guess I just do no quite understand some of the dislike towards it. I have not quite seen anyone explain why it is a 'bad' ending, unlike the other endings which have been discussed a lot. Because it means the entire trilogy was for nothing. You aren't finding your own way, you aren't defeating the Reapers, you're bending to their demands. They are ALLOWING you to "win" but on their terms, not yours. And this is aside rom the sheer idiocy of each ending. Kill the Reapers through...percusive maintenence? shooting a pipe then walking into the explosion? WTF is that!? Oh, and you genocide all AI in the galaxy whether or not it had anything to do with the Reapers. Because reasons. Grabbling a set of electrodes to commit suicide while making an AI based on Shepard to control the Reapers? Yeah, how'd that work out for the Leviathans? What's the definition of insanity again? Then there's Green Space Jesus ending. Let me count the ways this ending is an absolute violation of every living thing in the galaxy! And this was intended to be the "best" outcome! I lose all respect for Bioware writers with this alone.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 19, 2021 23:40:31 GMT
The ending is still a train wreck but the original ending was truly atrocious. A choose your suicide palette swap coupled with a stupid garden of eden sequence. The extended cut provided some of the basic fixes though it refuses to address the fundamental problems. Epilogue slides added, what a crazy expectation at the end of a trilogy. It’s still a very sticking plaster over a gaping sore. Teleporting squaddies, let’s create an even stupider sequence of the Normandy landing in the beam run etc. What irratated me is that they did absloutely nothing with the breath scene. Yes I know it means shepard lives but give me something! Even if they just did what MEHEM did where it shows him looking at the memorial wall at the end that would have been something. The only time a breath scene like that is close to okay is when that is the ending of something and you plan on a sequel. In other words you don't do it at the end of the trilogy when you have no plan of having us learn more. Oh and it is okay in some horror movies when showing that the monster is still alive.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on May 2, 2022 22:09:03 GMT
Think about what those letters mean to all of us here.
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Post by lordmoral on Jul 14, 2022 19:15:08 GMT
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Post by lordmoral on Jul 14, 2022 19:15:52 GMT
Apperantly there was another way ME3 would have ended.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jul 14, 2022 21:14:50 GMT
“Basically, it involved luring the Reapers through the Mass Relays then detonating the entire network to wipe them out, but also destroying/damaging the relays, and isolating every galactic community from the others."This is the sort of ending I actually expected. Especially given how the relay network was in fact a reaper trap designed to make the galaxy reliant on Reaper technology and keep them complacent, unwilling to look for alternatives. And a galaxy that has spent years, decades, perhaps centuries isolated from each other, developing in who-knows-what kinds of ways, could have been a really cool reset of the Milky way (rather than fleeing to Andromeda like a plague of locusts that have already destroyed one field)
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 14, 2022 21:42:52 GMT
“Basically, it involved luring the Reapers through the Mass Relays then detonating the entire network to wipe them out, but also destroying/damaging the relays, and isolating every galactic community from the others."This is the sort of ending I actually expected. Especially given how the relay network was in fact a reaper trap designed to make the galaxy reliant on Reaper technology and keep them complacent, unwilling to look for alternatives. And a galaxy that has spent years, decades, perhaps centuries isolated from each other, developing in who-knows-what kinds of ways, could have been a really cool reset of the Milky way (rather than fleeing to Andromeda like a plague of locusts that have already destroyed one field) Would have been a cool idea, but you know, gotta defend Hudson's ego ... Sorry, that "artistic vision".
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Post by lordmoral on Jul 15, 2022 1:43:02 GMT
“Basically, it involved luring the Reapers through the Mass Relays then detonating the entire network to wipe them out, but also destroying/damaging the relays, and isolating every galactic community from the others."This is the sort of ending I actually expected. Especially given how the relay network was in fact a reaper trap designed to make the galaxy reliant on Reaper technology and keep them complacent, unwilling to look for alternatives. And a galaxy that has spent years, decades, perhaps centuries isolated from each other, developing in who-knows-what kinds of ways, could have been a really cool reset of the Milky way (rather than fleeing to Andromeda like a plague of locusts that have already destroyed one field) The biggest WTF came when the Destroy Ending did just that, it was just a matter of using player saves to determine how fast the galaxy rebuilt and how it would do so which will likely be the plot of the next game. MEA was good, but needed better direction and care.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 15, 2022 16:07:37 GMT
Ultimately, I am in agreement with themikefest that the game should finish with the "Hackett ending". End the game with the conversation between Anderson and Shepard and then Shepard staring out into space as he bleeds. Cut to the relay firing, show the energy being blasted out by the relay system (but do not show the relay being broken), show the galaxy map with the energy bouncing through all the relays. End with the close-up of Hackett talking about how it was a narrow victory (or whatever; it has been awhile since I got that ending). You've literally described the current version of MEHEM, which is Audemus' Happy Ending Mod. (AHEM) Shep/Anderson conversation, Crucible hooks up with the Citadel, beam fires and Reapers and Reaplets all fall down or disintegrated. As it should be.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 15, 2022 16:16:55 GMT
Not a surprise. We were told to keep our saves. There's no way that was entirely about whether or not your barely mentioned Shepard in MEA was male or female. BioWare intended for players to use those saves for a sequel.
Most of my old saves don't work because too many non-existent mods were used in them. I think I only have three saves this time but that's okay. I'll use them. But maybe I should give all four endings a shot. Just in case I want to see how it could come into play with ME4.
Incidentally, Drew's concern about what to do with destroyed relays isn't all that difficult. We already had a one-way Conduit on the Citadel created by the Protheans. There's no way they couldn't use that, and likely the Citadel itself, to rebuild the network. It would take time, of course, but so what?
Despite what I said above, I'd be fine if they scrapped the chosen endings entirely (but kept our other choices intact, like the fate of quarians, geth, krogan and rachni) and launch ME4 assuming the pitched ending that never made it into the game. There'd be no conflict over which ending was right because all of them would be wrong. Hell, they could even start this thing off with Grandpa telling a story to Grandson at the beginning, saying this is either another story or the real story.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 15, 2022 16:20:45 GMT
And a galaxy that has spent years, decades, perhaps centuries isolated from each other, developing in who-knows-what kinds of ways, could have been a really cool reset of the Milky way (rather than fleeing to Andromeda like a plague of locusts that have already destroyed one field) That ending would also leave us with other options. I made one suggestion that the Citadel and Conduit would both still exist and so they could reverse-engineer the relays - with Aethyta gloating and directing things. However, if they're destroyed then it's more work. And we'll have members of every race in the galaxy living on Earth, trying to figure out how to feed quarians and turians. There's a lot of potential here and I hope BioWare has the guts to discard the mess of endings we have now and replace it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 15, 2022 16:22:39 GMT
The biggest WTF came when the Destroy Ending did just that, it was just a matter of using player saves to determine how fast the galaxy rebuilt and how it would do so which will likely be the plot of the next game. Given that we've heard the galaxy isn't in such good shape in ME4, we'd either have low EMS ending (which would kill Shepard and the crew) or this new ending which does impact the galaxy negatively (except the obvious positive of no more Reapers) but still leave the Normandy crew intact. And I guess EDI and the geth.
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At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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Post by lordmoral on Jul 15, 2022 16:47:54 GMT
The biggest WTF came when the Destroy Ending did just that, it was just a matter of using player saves to determine how fast the galaxy rebuilt and how it would do so which will likely be the plot of the next game. Given that we've heard the galaxy isn't in such good shape in ME4, we'd either have low EMS ending (which would kill Shepard and the crew) or this new ending which does impact the galaxy negatively (except the obvious positive of no more Reapers) but still leave the Normandy crew intact. And I guess EDI and the geth. Pretty much, unless the teaser was done using a Low EMS ending and players will be able to get a slightly better version. But I suspect they might redo the ending on the first phase to aling it with the new game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 15, 2022 19:45:23 GMT
Given that we've heard the galaxy isn't in such good shape in ME4, we'd either have low EMS ending (which would kill Shepard and the crew) or this new ending which does impact the galaxy negatively (except the obvious positive of no more Reapers) but still leave the Normandy crew intact. And I guess EDI and the geth. Pretty much, unless the teaser was done using a Low EMS ending and players will be able to get a slightly better version. But I suspect they might redo the ending on the first phase to aling it with the new game. They pretty much have to. They screwed up with the ending, especially going in knowing that there was going to be a fourth game but leaving things so that it wasn't possible to continue. This is a good workaround.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 15, 2022 22:03:25 GMT
Given that we've heard the galaxy isn't in such good shape in ME4, we'd either have low EMS ending (which would kill Shepard and the crew) or this new ending which does impact the galaxy negatively (except the obvious positive of no more Reapers) but still leave the Normandy crew intact. And I guess EDI and the geth. Pretty much, unless the teaser was done using a Low EMS ending and players will be able to get a slightly better version. But I suspect they might redo the ending on the first phase to aling it with the new game. I'm pretty sure Liara (and all the other companions) die in a Low-EMS ending. Low EMS Destroy at least. I wish I could be confident they'll tinker with the endings somehow, but at this point, I think they're sticking to them. Out of sheer pride if nothing else.
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