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Post by themikefest on Nov 2, 2016 23:27:35 GMT
Was it Mac Walters that wrote the ending on a napkin? If so, I say he's the best writer. Its very hard to write on napkin vs paper. So I give him high marks for that.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 2, 2016 23:30:04 GMT
As I noted in my post:
"Because backtracking through the conversation, I haven't seen Arcian aim a rude comment towards you besides the implied exasperation in the "Jesus Christ" in the above comment." ... and you expanded the "Jesus Christ" business... so... Jesus Christ Christmas Cakes... get off my back too... please.
Okay, see, the Jesus Christ line was not one of the lines that I used as an example of you coming across as hostile to other people's opinions. These were those lines: "stop being his apologist." and "... Listen, you can love him to bits and be defensive as all get out for him"
These were the lines. Jesus Christ wasn't. Jesus Christ was fine.
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Post by straykat on Nov 3, 2016 3:52:35 GMT
They all have hits and misses. Lukas K might be my favorite DA writer (Sera, Aveline, the Arishok story arc... and I believe a lot of Sarcastic Hawke), but then he wrote Jacob and ME1 Kaidan as well. I don't know how he can be exciting in one game and then make these straight shooters in Mass Effect. Aveline, I suppose, was a straight shooter too, but she had so much drama surrounding her that it made her exciting too.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 3, 2016 4:06:22 GMT
They all have hits and misses. Lukas K might be my favorite DA writer (Sera, Aveline, the Arishok story arc... and I believe a lot of Sarcastic Hawke), but then he wrote Jacob and ME1 Kaidan as well. I don't know how he can be exciting in one game and then make these straight shooters in Mass Effect. Aveline, I suppose, was a straight shooter too, but she had so much drama surrounding her that it made her exciting too. That shows his versatility. Jacob and Kaidan aren't popular because of being "dry" or "boring", but I've always really liked them for being reliable, believable soldiers. Sera is a narrow-minded character who inspires strong reactions because she is so amazingly well written (and acted), and thoroughly believable. Same for his other work.
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Post by straykat on Nov 3, 2016 4:12:30 GMT
They all have hits and misses. Lukas K might be my favorite DA writer (Sera, Aveline, the Arishok story arc... and I believe a lot of Sarcastic Hawke), but then he wrote Jacob and ME1 Kaidan as well. I don't know how he can be exciting in one game and then make these straight shooters in Mass Effect. Aveline, I suppose, was a straight shooter too, but she had so much drama surrounding her that it made her exciting too. That shows his versatility. Jacob and Kaidan aren't popular because of being "dry" or "boring", but I've always really liked them for being reliable, believable soldiers. Sera is a narrow-minded character who inspires strong reactions because she is so amazingly well written (and acted), and thoroughly believable. Same for his other work. What I was going to add is maybe they could have benefited from more drama.. like Aveline did. She's constantly playing off Hawke, Varric, and Isabela... and just controlling the chaos of Kirkwall. Miranda's a fairly straight shooter in ME2, but her being a Loyalist and playing off Jack makes it much better.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 3, 2016 4:19:29 GMT
I liked them drama-free, but I'm in the minority. I think you're correct that it would've helped them quite a bit. People like me would've still liked them all the same, and everyone else would've found them less boring. I'm sure he's learned from the clear feedback regarding those characters.
I felt like DAI saw a marked improvement in many facets of the character writing. The story needed work, still, but the characters continue to get better and better. I hope MEA demonstrates similar evolution.
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Post by straykat on Nov 3, 2016 4:24:22 GMT
I liked them drama-free, but I'm in the minority. I think you're correct that it would've helped them quite a bit. People like me would've still liked them all the same, and everyone else would've found them less boring. I'm sure he's learned from the clear feedback regarding those characters. I felt like DAI saw a marked improvement in many facets of the character writing. The story needed work, still, but the characters continue to get better and better. I hope MEA demonstrates similar evolution. I'm not a big fan of DAI myself.. But I do like Sera, as I said. Which is fitting, since she kind of thinks the Inquisition is a joke I think if Lukas was allowed to write the main story, it'd have more intrigue.. somehow. I mean, that's why I like DA2 Act2/Arishok. That was mostly him apparently.. along with the Petrice stuff. The whole idea of the Inquisition struck me as both a political and a rogue-ish concept pre-release, but it turned out to fairly straight high fantasy... that derailed itself into Elfy territory too much imo.
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pdomi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by pdomi on Nov 3, 2016 10:07:47 GMT
Lukas also wrote "In Your Heart Shall Burn", one of the most (or few) really exciting quests in DAI.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 3, 2016 11:01:59 GMT
I believe it's a collaborative effort. The best script is nothing if the rest can make anything good of it. Just like movies.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 3, 2016 12:48:29 GMT
Chris L'Etoile definitely.
Out of all the writers that worked on Mass Effect, the vast majority of his contributions were focused on shoring up the science fiction side of the game; seeing as how this was marketed as a sci-fi action RPG and all. Bringing all the codex entries in line with science, or at least consistent pseudo-science, writing for and fleshing out the 'alien' aliens of the setting like the Rachni, Elcor, Hanar and Geth, etc.
His version of Ashley in ME 1 was much more nuanced than most people give it credit (IMO). And his work on EDI and Legion/Geth in ME 2 was miles ahead of every other mainstream depiction of artificial intelligences. It's really disappointing that after he left those two synthetics were turned into just another Johnny 5 or Commander Data.
The writing team working on the games does require a collaborative effort, but sometimes I can't help but feel that the wrong writers were put in charge. I mean Mac can write decent characters, but I personally don't think that he should have been the one directing the overall flow of the narrative, especially when it came to dealing with the more 'alien' elements. If your response to previously nuanced ,non-human portions of the setting is to green light the ignoring of them, making them just like us, or using them as cheap throw away jokes then I don't think you should be the one in charge.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 3, 2016 12:55:29 GMT
I make a distinction between the best writer in terms of competence, the writers whose preferred themes I like or not, and the best worldbuilder.
If I could choose roles for a new game, I would like to play in an SF world made by Chris l'Etoile, with characters and plots by David Gaider (exemplified by Morrigan) and Lukas Kristjanson (exemplified by DA2's Arishok plotline). In terms of competence, Patrick Weekes equals those but I don't like his preference for emotion over substance (or drama over details).
There may be other good writers I don't know because they never had the opportunity to shine because of being cursed with low word counts.
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xassantex
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: xassantex
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Post by xassantex on Nov 3, 2016 15:21:15 GMT
How do you guys know who wrote what? I don't mean that in a challenging way, I really want to know. I don't have a clue who wrote what, except that PW wrote Solas and Trespasser and Lukas Kristjanson wrote Sera. Don't even ask me how I knew that, I don't even remember. haha, i was just thinking that as scrolled down the page , going " huh? Who??? "
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 3, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Chris L'Etoile definitely. Out of all the writers that worked on Mass Effect, the vast majority of his contributions were focused on shoring up the science fiction side of the game; seeing as how this was marketed as a sci-fi action RPG and all. Bringing all the codex entries in line with science, or at least consistent pseudo-science, writing for and fleshing out the 'alien' aliens of the setting like the Rachni, Elcor, Hanar and Geth, etc. His version of Ashley in ME 1 was much more nuanced than most people give it credit (IMO). And his work on EDI and Legion/Geth in ME 2 was miles ahead of every other mainstream depiction of artificial intelligences. It's really disappointing that after he left those two synthetics were turned into just another Johnny 5 or Commander Data. The writing team working on the games does require a collaborative effort, but sometimes I can't help but feel that the wrong writers were put in charge. I mean Mac can write decent characters, but I personally don't think that he should have been the one directing the overall flow of the narrative, especially when it came to dealing with the more 'alien' elements. If your response to previously nuanced ,non-human portions of the setting is to green light the ignoring of them, making them just like us, or using them as cheap throw away jokes then I don't think you should be the one in charge. I make a distinction between the best writer in terms of competence, the writers whose preferred themes I like or not, and the best worldbuilder. If I could choose roles for a new game, I would like to play in an SF world made by Chris l'Etoile, with characters and plots by David Gaider (exemplified by Morrigan) and Lukas Kristjanson (exemplified by DA2's Arishok plotline). In terms of competence, Patrick Weekes equals those but I don't like his preference for emotion over substance (or drama over details). There may be other good writers I don't know because they never had the opportunity to shine because of being cursed with low word counts. Two excellent posts. These are the thoughts, and more, that were spinning about my tired, (prescription) drug-addled mind yesterday, but I failed to put them into words. Well said.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 3, 2016 17:43:05 GMT
How do you guys know who wrote what? I don't mean that in a challenging way, I really want to know. I don't have a clue who wrote what, except that PW wrote Solas and Trespasser and Lukas Kristjanson wrote Sera. Don't even ask me how I knew that, I don't even remember. haha, i was just thinking that as scrolled down the page , going " huh? Who??? " How do I know? I just recall information from various sources. If you follow a franchise as a hardcore fan for a while, you pick up a lot of stuff.
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Beerfish
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 3, 2016 17:47:40 GMT
If you write long enough you will have hits and misses for fans. I really like Aveline and Sera and some other stuff Lukas did i am not as much of a fan of the Arishok story line DA2 however. For me Dave Gaider started out has being very good in his earlier work but had a few serious hickups along the way towards the end.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 18:45:07 GMT
... and you expanded the "Jesus Christ" business... so... Jesus Christ Christmas Cakes... get off my back too... please.
Okay, see, the Jesus Christ line was not one of the lines that I used as an example of you coming across as hostile to other people's opinions. These were those lines: "stop being his apologist." and "... Listen, you can love him to bits and be defensive as all get out for him"
These were the lines. Jesus Christ wasn't. Jesus Christ was fine. "Jesus Christ" are the lines I'm interpreting as you and Arcian being "hostile" towards me. I'm being defensive. My saying to Arcian that he/she is being an apologist for L'Etoile is not, IMO, my being "hostile" towards Arcian. When a person steps in and explains away another's transgressions... that's being an apologist. You were being an apologist for Arcian by stepping in and excusing his/her swearing at me... and you exacerbated the whole thing by expanding on that swearing at me. To smooth things over (since I'm not being hostile)... I will, hereby, apologize to Arcian. You and Arcian, however, owe me an apology for swearing at me.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 3, 2016 18:50:47 GMT
Okay, see, the Jesus Christ line was not one of the lines that I used as an example of you coming across as hostile to other people's opinions. These were those lines: "stop being his apologist." and "... Listen, you can love him to bits and be defensive as all get out for him"
These were the lines. Jesus Christ wasn't. Jesus Christ was fine. "Jesus Christ" are the lines I'm interpreting as you and Arcian being "hostile" towards me. I'm being defensive. My saying to Arcian that he/she is being an apologist for L'Etoile is not, IMO, my being "hostile" towards Arcian. When a person steps in and explains away another's transgressions... that's being an apologist. You were being an apologist for Arcian by stepping in and excusing his/her swearing at me... and you exacerbated the whole thing by expanding on that swearing at me. To smooth things over (since I'm not being hostile)... I will, hereby, apologize to Arcian. You and Arcian, however, owe me an apology for swearing at me. I take it you are a very by-the-definition kind of person?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 23:37:18 GMT
"Jesus Christ" are the lines I'm interpreting as you and Arcian being "hostile" towards me. I'm being defensive. My saying to Arcian that he/she is being an apologist for L'Etoile is not, IMO, my being "hostile" towards Arcian. When a person steps in and explains away another's transgressions... that's being an apologist. You were being an apologist for Arcian by stepping in and excusing his/her swearing at me... and you exacerbated the whole thing by expanding on that swearing at me. To smooth things over (since I'm not being hostile)... I will, hereby, apologize to Arcian. You and Arcian, however, owe me an apology for swearing at me. I take it you are a very by-the-definition kind of person? Should it matter to you? Why ask?
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Post by shechinah on Nov 3, 2016 23:53:29 GMT
I take it you are a very by-the-definition kind of person? Should it matter to you? Why ask? Lots of things matter to me in the sense that I find them curious which is also why I asked.
Examples include the following: why do so many cultures place significance on eye contact? why are bottles sometimes shaped the way they are? why do giraffes have spots and horns? why am I so fascinated by voices? why do people sometimes have laughing fits? why do people sometimes have trouble making a fist right after waking up?
I'm also curious as to why Jesus Christ is defined as a swear word. This is especially since Jesus Christ is not considered a swear word in my country. if anything, it is considered an alternative to swear words and expletives.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 2:39:25 GMT
Should it matter to you? Why ask? Lots of things matter to me in the sense that I find them curious which is also why I asked.
Examples include the following: why do so many cultures place significance on eye contact? why are bottles sometimes shaped the way they are? why do giraffes have spots and horns? why am I so fascinated by voices? why do people sometimes have laughing fits? why do people sometimes have trouble making a fist right after waking up?
I'm also curious as to why Jesus Christ is defined as a swear word. This is especially since Jesus Christ is not considered a swear word in my country. if anything, it is considered an alternative to swear words and expletives.
I still don't see where whether or not I'm a "by-the-definition" sort of person is relevant to that. At any rate, this is straying way off topic... so I'm going to end it here.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 4, 2016 8:15:57 GMT
I still don't see where whether or not I'm a "by-the-definition" sort of person is relevant to that. At any rate, this is straying way off topic... so I'm going to end it here. Okay but you did not ask why it was relevant: you asked why it should matter to me and why I asked.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 12:47:09 GMT
I still don't see where whether or not I'm a "by-the-definition" sort of person is relevant to that. At any rate, this is straying way off topic... so I'm going to end it here. Okay but you did not ask why it was relevant: you asked why it should matter to me and why I asked. I'll bite - Why is it relevant, then?
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Arcian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
Prime Posts: 2473
Prime Likes: 2168
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Post by Arcian on Nov 4, 2016 14:20:03 GMT
Okay, see, the Jesus Christ line was not one of the lines that I used as an example of you coming across as hostile to other people's opinions. These were those lines: "stop being his apologist." and "... Listen, you can love him to bits and be defensive as all get out for him"
These were the lines. Jesus Christ wasn't. Jesus Christ was fine. "Jesus Christ" are the lines I'm interpreting as you and Arcian being "hostile" towards me. I'm being defensive. My saying to Arcian that he/she is being an apologist for L'Etoile is not, IMO, my being "hostile" towards Arcian. I did you a favor by saying "Jesus Christ" in place of "Are you fucking serious?" in response to your absurd assertion that Chris L'Etoile overstepped his boundaries by deciding, as was within his rights as writer employed by BioWare, to downplay a certain plot device requested by the company leadership. They were obviously okay with him downplaying it since they left his changes in the final iteration of the game, so what grounds do you have for second-guessing him? When a person steps in and explains away another's transgressions... A person answering questions about a franchise he's worked on counts as transgressions? To smooth things over (since I'm not being hostile)... I will, hereby, apologize to Arcian. I don't recall having ever asked for your apology, and I certainly don't want it if you're not going to mean it. You and Arcian, however, owe me an apology for swearing at me. Uh, no, I am not going to apologize for invoking the name of a mythological character as an expression of exasperation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 14:24:34 GMT
"Jesus Christ" are the lines I'm interpreting as you and Arcian being "hostile" towards me. I'm being defensive. My saying to Arcian that he/she is being an apologist for L'Etoile is not, IMO, my being "hostile" towards Arcian. I did you a favor by saying "Jesus Christ" in place of "Are you fucking serious?" in response to your absurd assertion that Chris L'Etoile overstepped his boundaries by deciding, as was within his rights as writer employed by BioWare, to downplay a certain plot device requested by the company leadership. They were obviously okay with him downplaying it since they left his changes in the final iteration of the game, so what grounds do you have for second-guessing him? When a person steps in and explains away another's transgressions... A person answering questions about a franchise he's worked on counts as transgressions? To smooth things over (since I'm not being hostile)... I will, hereby, apologize to Arcian. I don't recall having ever asked for your apology, and I certainly don't want it if you're not going to mean it. You and Arcian, however, owe me an apology for swearing at me. Uh, no, I am not going to apologize for invoking the name of a mythological character as an expression of exasperation. I apologized even though I was not intentionally being hostile... So who's now being hostile, I wonder?
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
Posts: 1,303 Likes: 2,754
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Post by Mihura on Nov 4, 2016 15:12:40 GMT
Sylvia Feketekuty and Sheryl Chee. I am bias because I did love Liara in ME 2, Isabela in DA 2 and also Josephine in DA:I.
Also what is the team for ME:A? I am curious and did not read anything about this, outside the lead writer.
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