cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 7, 2021 17:16:21 GMT
Well wow this is an amazing mod. I don´t need Pinnacle Station but i appreciated the efford.
And please read Mgamerz´s blog about this mod creation.
Edit for video:
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cuthbertbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Nov 7, 2021 20:48:09 GMT
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 3:09:44 GMT
So it was never about Bioware not having the source code but rather on EA and Bioware not wanting to spend time licensing a content made from a third party and not spending 6 months making the content from the ground up, this is how much care they will pay attention into ME: N.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 8, 2021 12:49:19 GMT
So it was never about Bioware not having the source code but rather on EA and Bioware not wanting to spend time licensing a content made from a third party and not spending 6 months making the content from the ground up, this is how much care they will pay attention into ME: N. I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 8, 2021 13:14:06 GMT
So it was never about Bioware not having the source code but rather on EA and Bioware not wanting to spend time licensing a content made from a third party and not spending 6 months making the content from the ground up, this is how much care they will pay attention into ME: N. I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do. Yeah that and because it was probably one of the least popular DLC's given it has no links to the main story is likely why they didn't bother. A tleast in the case of Bring Down the Sk yyou do at least run into Balak again during ME3 even if it is just a small scene so tha tone can be worth doing. At least more so than Pinnacle. I have access t oPinnacl eanyway through the originals and I hardl yever played it ther so I'm no ttha tbothered by the mod. But it's one of the reasons why I've kept my copies of the origina lgames s oif I wantt oenjoy the games in their original format again I still can.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2021 16:34:49 GMT
I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do. So the answer is "they lied". Publicly. It has nothing to do with the source code, it has everything to do with money. And they didn't want to spend the money and give the full experience to everyone. This is what Bioware is today.
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 16:58:38 GMT
So it was never about Bioware not having the source code but rather on EA and Bioware not wanting to spend time licensing a content made from a third party and not spending 6 months making the content from the ground up, this is how much care they will pay attention into ME: N. I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do. So what I said, they lied to us and media as well more gamers defend them, they will continue to pull excuses like these because regular gamers are complacent.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 8, 2021 18:41:18 GMT
I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do. So what I said, they lied to us and media as well more gamers defend them, they will continue to pull excuses like these because regular gamers are complacent. Not sure how they lied to us, what they said was it would take them six months to recreate Pinnacle Station since the source code was lost. Lets see the Legendary Edition was released on May 14th and its now November 11th. So maybe its gamers that decide to take everything that is being said and twist it for their agenda is the problem here.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 8, 2021 18:46:16 GMT
I think that there were limitations on what EA and BioWare could have done with Pinnacle Station due to their outsourced its creation. With the amount of other content in the Legendary Edition this one DLC probably had limitations to what they could do. So the answer is "they lied". Publicly. It has nothing to do with the source code, it has everything to do with money. And they didn't want to spend the money and give the full experience to everyone. This is what Bioware is today. The claim was they didn't have the source code and would take them six months to recreate the DLC. So if they delayed the release until November what would you complain about? That they delayed the game for the worst DLC?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2021 18:47:40 GMT
So what I said, they lied to us and media as well more gamers defend them, they will continue to pull excuses like these because regular gamers are complacent. Not sure how they lied to us, what they said was it would take them six months to recreate Pinnacle Station since the source code was lost. Lets see the Legendary Edition was released on May 14th and its now November 11th. So maybe its gamers that decide to take everything that is being said and twist it for their agenda is the problem here. The difference is modders working part time on this thing, over a period of several months, while creating their own tools first, to make a working copy, vs a studio that already has the specialized tools that they've already developed and working on it, with a vastly larger amount of people on it because it's their job and not a hobby. Also, mod work limits its accessibility to PC only, vs the rest of the LE community.
It proves that it's doable and in a shorter amount of time, with the already available staff. It's just that Bioware didn't want to work on it. Its about the money, it's always about the money and doing the least amount of work possible.
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 18:57:35 GMT
So what I said, they lied to us and media as well more gamers defend them, they will continue to pull excuses like these because regular gamers are complacent. Not sure how they lied to us, what they said was it would take them six months to recreate Pinnacle Station since the source code was lost. Lets see the Legendary Edition was released on May 14th and its now November 11th. So maybe its gamers that decide to take everything that is being said and twist it for their agenda is the problem here. It took modders, who had less tools (but a vital secret weapon) compared to three studios who worked on the LE, 3 months as the Pinnacle Station DLC MOD was being worked on since September 2021: "This project started on September 18th, 2021, after I came back from a complete modding hiatus after working pretty much nonstop on modding from March until the end of July." www.me3tweaks.com/blog/modding/porting-pinnacle-station-forward-11-years/
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2021 18:58:22 GMT
Not sure how they lied to us, what they said was it would take them six months to recreate Pinnacle Station since the source code was lost. Lets see the Legendary Edition was released on May 14th and its now November 11th. So maybe its gamers that decide to take everything that is being said and twist it for their agenda is the problem here. It took modders, who had less tools (but a vital secret weapon) compared to three studios who worked on the LE, 3 months as the Pinnacle Station DLC MOD was being worked on since September 2021: "This project started on September 18th, 2021, after I came back from a complete modding hiatus after working pretty much nonstop on modding from March until the end of July." www.me3tweaks.com/blog/modding/porting-pinnacle-station-forward-11-years/ That's less than 60 days.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 8, 2021 19:00:14 GMT
So what I said, they lied to us and media as well more gamers defend them, they will continue to pull excuses like these because regular gamers are complacent. Not sure how they lied to us, what they said was it would take them six months to recreate Pinnacle Station since the source code was lost. Lets see the Legendary Edition was released on May 14th and its now November 11th. So maybe its gamers that decide to take everything that is being said and twist it for their agenda is the problem here. Or more likely it's the loyal Bio fans that are the problem... 🤔
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 19:04:35 GMT
Or more likely it's the loyal Bio fans that are the problem... 🤔 And we can bet who will Bioware listen to only.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2021 19:06:59 GMT
But won't you think of the poor corporation? It is impossible for them to do a job that 5 dudes did in a basement, without proper tools, in just 50 days.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Nov 8, 2021 19:07:28 GMT
Or more likely it's the loyal Bio fans that are the problem... 🤔 And we can bet who will Bioware listen to only. And if Bio made a video with the title "this is what we think of our fans". Which turns out to be 3 hours of the Devs taking a dump, the loyal Bio fans would call it a work of art.
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 8, 2021 19:21:12 GMT
3 studios for the LE (4 if you count the ones who made Pinnacle Station originally) and a big publisher vs Modders who had to develop their own tools to port from ME1 to ME3 and now to the LE.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2021 19:25:45 GMT
3 studios for the LE (4 if you count the ones who made Pinnacle Station originally) and a big publisher vs Modders who had to develop their own tools to port from ME1 to ME3 and now to the LE. I'm really tired of Bioware's lying.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 9, 2021 7:05:25 GMT
Going to try again.
Just because a group of modders can take an approach to release Pinnacle Station in a way that BioWare said they couldn't doesn't make BioWare liars. As an example there could be a policy at EA that under no circumstances is code to be used outside of being the source code if not available they have to make it themselves. There could be multiple reasons that EA follows a policy like that or some other that means that the methods that this modding group used would be approaches that BioWare themselves could not take. EA might have even tried an approach like that in the past, but something went wrong and it became a bigger hassle then remaking it from the ground up so a policy was created.
Just because one person says that they are limited to a specific approach doesn't mean there are other approaches out there. It just means those other approaches might not be available to them for one reason or another.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 10:45:55 GMT
Just because a group of modders can take an approach to release Pinnacle Station in a way that BioWare said they couldn't doesn't make BioWare liars Yes, it does. They didn't want to do the work, they didn't want to put the money. That's the deal. They lied to you and you are saying that it is okay for them to lie to you, because they're Bioware. They're liars. What's worse, some of them are liars and hypocrites.
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 14, 2021 15:33:07 GMT
Yeah, it was so hard to make this work - if you're a dev. If you're a modder, no problem.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 16:28:56 GMT
Link to explanation from Mgamerz as to why the modders could resurrect the DLC, but not BioWare.
The tl;dr excerpt from the link (italics are mine):
"How was this ported?
BioWare lost the source code, which meant they are unable to recreate the DLC using their tools that rely on that code. The Legendary Explorer toolkit, which has been developed over the decade since the third game came out, is designed to edit "cooked" editions of the game, i.e. without source code, so in some regards it was easier for modders to port it than Bioware (who would have had to rebuild the source code from scratch).
Nevertheless it has taken Mgamerz and the team months of work to complete."
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 14, 2021 16:42:27 GMT
Link to explanation from Mgamerz as to why the modders could resurrect the DLC, but not BioWare.
The tl;dr excerpt from the link (italics are mine):
"How was this ported?
BioWare lost the source code, which meant they are unable to recreate the DLC using their tools that rely on that code. The Legendary Explorer toolkit, which has been developed over the decade since the third game came out, is designed to edit "cooked" editions of the game, i.e. without source code, so in some regards it was easier for modders to port it than Bioware (who would have had to rebuild the source code from scratch).
Nevertheless it has taken Mgamerz and the team months of work to complete."
Indeed, I think I have that same link and clearly the modders cut corners Bioware couldn't have, but the initial Bioware excuse was that it couldn't be done, then that it would've taken 6 months of work to include, now they are really quiet on the work modders did themselves. Modders have said that Bioware has turned a deaf ear to a lot of their feedback on how to make realistic changes for the game as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 17:20:18 GMT
To recreate source code from scratch … I think it is realistic to say it could have taken quite some time. I don't consider what the modders did to "cut corners" … instead, modders are using tools to modify the "cooked" … i.e. game version of the code, while the tools BioWare has are designed to modify "source code." The tools are different, the code you can modify with one set of tools is different than the code you can modify with other sets of tools.
I'm not sure how BioWare turning a deaf ear to feedback (my paraphrasing what you said) has anything to do with the Pinnacle DLC. The source code was lost a long time ago. PlayStation never got the Pinnacle Station DLC because of that. Prior to MELE coming out, BioWare tried to track down the source code … all leads turned out to be dead ends. BioWare made the decision to cut Pinnacle Station from MELE rather than try to recreate the DLC from scratch, which they assessed wasn't worth the time and cost. Given the low regard many held for the Pinnacle Station DLC, that is a realistic assessment on BioWare's part for a project that is a remaster, not a remake.
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Post by lordmoral on Nov 14, 2021 17:27:27 GMT
Given the low regard many held for the Pinnacle Station DLC, that is a realistic assessment on BioWare's part for a project that is a remaster, not a remake. Ironically it drove more attention now to it than it ever did on PC and Xbox 360but, that is what usually what happens. To recreate source code from scratch … I think it is realistic to say it could have taken quite some time. I don't consider what the modders did to "cut corners" … instead, modders are using tools to modify the "cooked" … i.e. game version of the code, while the tools BioWare has are designed to modify "source code." Modders also didn't had to pay the company who originally developed Pinnacle Station, so that is a big corner cut in the licensing department although, should Bioware and EA be required to pay something to those involved? Edit: not in the modding community, but to the company who originally made the DLC? I'm not sure how BioWare turning a deaf ear to feedback (my paraphrasing what you said) has anything to do with the Pinnacle DLC. In this I agree with you, Bioware turned a deaf ear to feedback on a lot of things for the LE both pre and post launch, but this was another separate issue for them.
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