wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 9, 2021 18:47:30 GMT
Your new character would have no reason not to trust her. After reading Shepard's biography, my character wouldn't want anything to do with the asari. My Shepard never liked and never trusted the asari. Legendary? Ha. This is the same character who thought it would be a good idea to steal armor from a dead corpse to be put on display like it's some kind of prize. The same character who claims Shepard is a friend by not informing anyone the body is in the hands of Cerberus. This is the same character who decides to blame others for what happened on Thessia instead of her own species fro waiting to the last minute to onform anyione about something that could help. Nothing legendary about her. She's just some character forced on the Normandy that my Shepard had no care about. In an Anderson role? And what role did he have? What was her canon role in the trilogy? If you remove her saying the word Ilos, she had no role. If Bioware let Shepard use the cipher to it's potential, the asari would never have been needed especially in ME3. Maybe there isn’t a reliable shepherd biography to read. Anderson clearly is meant to be older mentor in the trilogy whether we like it or not (I don’t particularly)she very clearly has a canon role in me1 and me3 and in becoming the shadowbroker inbetween. In say 500 years the shadowbroker(maybe former) who was also a figure in the reaper war is likely to be a figure of some intrigue.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 18:56:32 GMT
Anderson clearly is meant to be older mentor in the trilogy whether we like it or not (I don’t particularly)she very clearly has a canon role in me1 and me3 and in becoming the shadowbroker inbetween. In say 500 years the shadowbroker(maybe former) who was also a figure in the reaper war is likely to be a figure of some intrigue. How would a Shadowbroker even work, in a post ME3 endings universe?
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2021 19:01:46 GMT
I do think you can criticize a person, but it depends on how you do it. I don't think it's wrong to call out people. For example, the hypocrisy displayed by many of Bioware's staff. Either on the personal, or the professional level. Especially when they shove the personal into the professional. That'd be sort on the edge, but it'd still depend on how you'd structure the criticism, regardless if right or wrong. But I'm more referring to straigh out insults.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2021 19:05:09 GMT
I think Liara's involvment, in terms of making it sense, would depend heavily from the kind of plot she'll be involved to. I don't think SB business really works, expecially post-ME3: even if the game is set 500 in the future in a sort of restructured MW, I don't think she'd resume her old job.
If what she's involved with is related to the relay systems, it could make sense that she's involved with, I guess.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 19:05:41 GMT
I don't think it's wrong to call out people. For example, the hypocrisy displayed by many of Bioware's staff. Either on the personal, or the professional level. Especially when they shove the personal into the professional. That'd be sort on the edge, but it'd still depend on how you'd structure the criticism, regardless if right or wrong. But I'm more referring to straigh out insults. What would you call that behaviour? Circumstantially ambivalent? Conveniently readjusted? A lie is a lie, a double standard is a double standard, hypocrisy is hypocrisy. You hold people accountable. It's called integrity. And these "professionals" don't have it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 19:08:48 GMT
I think Liara's involvment, in terms of making it sense, would depend heavily from the kind of plot she'll be involved to. I don't think SB business really works, expecially post-ME3: even if the game is set 500 in the future in a sort of restructured MW, I don't think she'd resume her old job. If what she's involved with is related to the relay systems, it could make sense that she's involved with, I guess. She's not a Relay expert. She knows nothing about them. She knows how to read Prothean. And we did that game twice already. It's called ME1 and ME3. I know, let's have every odd ME game be Protheans. That way Liara can always come back. So back for ME5,7,9,11 and so on. Isn't that great? Aren't you excited now? ME future so bright, I need sunglasses.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2021 19:12:26 GMT
That'd be sort on the edge, but it'd still depend on how you'd structure the criticism, regardless if right or wrong. But I'm more referring to straigh out insults. What would you call that behaviour? Circumstantially ambivalent? Conveniently readjusted? A lie is a lie, a double standard is a double standard, hypocrisy is hypocrisy. You hold people accountable. It's called integrity. And these "professionals" don't have it. I'm referring to the way you'd construct the full sentence, not the 'hypocrite' bit. For example, saying 'You're a fu****g hypocrite', would not be a good way to say that. I wasn't referring to the word itself, although admittedly, people tend to get insulted by it the vast majority of times. I'm not going to debate in regards of their integrity or what not, as I'm not fully sure if you're referring to the posts and opinions wrote after the endings, or something more recent as I think the discussion in the DA twitter thread went, or something else entirely.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 9, 2021 19:16:27 GMT
You can call them hypocrites if you like, most people and the devs themselves probably won’t care a jot if it helps them create a successful game to relaunch the franchise after the andromeda iceberg. It won't be, though. The moment the public finds out that Bioware led them along and no Shepard and co. are in sight, just more of Josh Whedon's sloppy seconds, but with Liara, this is going to be a shitshow. And what is the point of moving away from Ryder and co., just to make Ryder and co. #2? What's the purpose? At least give the Ryder fans what they want. And you are right, it doesn't matter if I call them hypocrites now. When Bioware gets called out by the fans and then Bioware tries to turn it around, then everyone will. Because they are absolutely thrilled to ride on the coattails of the good PR of people thinking Shepard and co. is back and not saying out right, right now, that they aren't and being honest about it. But when the time to be honest inevitably comes, they are hoping that nobody will care. But they will. The purpose is to do a much better job this time round. It certainly makes far more sense to create new character than to try and re-engineer/rewrite the Ryder flop world into something people would re-engage with. Time will tell if BioWare still have talent and bravery to deliver a good mass effect story. not sure who this public is that expects shephard. The public will have very little interest until an actual story comes out, speculation images are for hardcore fans and I don’t see many arguing sheps coming back.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2021 19:17:05 GMT
I think Liara's involvment, in terms of making it sense, would depend heavily from the kind of plot she'll be involved to. I don't think SB business really works, expecially post-ME3: even if the game is set 500 in the future in a sort of restructured MW, I don't think she'd resume her old job. If what she's involved with is related to the relay systems, it could make sense that she's involved with, I guess. She's not a Relay expert. She knows nothing about them. She knows how to read Prothean. And we did that game twice already. It's called ME1 and ME3. I know, let's have every odd ME game be Protheans. That way Liara can always come back. So back for ME5,7,9,11 and so on. Isn't that great? Aren't you excited now? ME future so bright, I need sunglasses.
Assuming we're in a post-Destroy scenario, even if Shepard was the sole decision maker on that, she was part of the team that was responsible to stop the Reaper threat, and in turn, destroy the relay systems: she might very well want to find a way to make that work again; or if this is about an ancient, forgotten relay, it could be that she's curious on it. She might also be one of the most influential people in the galaxy (in secret, she was already was before), so she could lead or influence other to explore/repair the system. The fact that it might make sense (and I underline the might, as it could very well not, and she could simply be used to market the game. Case in point, Wrex's possible presence there, instead of Grunt) doesn't mean I like it or that I necessarily want Liara there. I could end up believing her presence makes sense there, but also not liking it. Both things could be true.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 9, 2021 19:20:27 GMT
Also, please talk for what you want, not THE fans. You are just one, not a Legion. Same as anyone else here. Everyone with a different opinion. I'm representing the people that have a similar opinion as me. There are more than one person that can agree with me. We have 11 votes so far. As one of those 11, you are definitely not having a similar opinion as me. Speak only for yourself.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 9, 2021 19:25:13 GMT
I think Liara's involvment, in terms of making it sense, would depend heavily from the kind of plot she'll be involved to. I don't think SB business really works, expecially post-ME3: even if the game is set 500 in the future in a sort of restructured MW, I don't think she'd resume her old job. If what she's involved with is related to the relay systems, it could make sense that she's involved with, I guess. I think liara would very much resume her old job in some form. I don’t really see her standing by letting anyone have that control. While she hasn’t the skills regarding relays any being that’s got 500+ years to learn and contacts it’s a possibility
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 9, 2021 19:27:31 GMT
I would greatly prefer a new protagonist. Shepard's story is over, plus I really really don't want them to touch him again and make it all worse.
Ryder just wasn't my type of character. It felt awkward watching someone trying to be a marvel superhero without any of the charisma. But if they are going for the same style of writing again, they might just stick with Ryder as well.
But I hope for a new protagonist who is different from both of them. I mean, if we're all bored of the Milky Way with over 90% of it still unexplored and needed a new galaxy, we certainly need a new protagonist too, no?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 19:34:06 GMT
I'm referring to the way you'd construct the full sentence, not the 'hypocrite' bit. For example, saying 'You're a fu****g hypocrite', would not be a good way to say that. I wasn't referring to the word itself, although admittedly, people tend to get insulted by it the vast majority of times. I'm not going to debate in regards of their integrity or what not, as I'm not fully sure if you're referring to the posts and opinions wrote after the endings, or something more recent as I think the discussion in the DA twitter thread went, or something else entirely. I don't think there's a "polite" way to call someone a hypocrite. But I'd try to be subtle about it. The purpose is to do a much better job this time round. But they won't. This isn't even up for discussion. It's not going to turn around now. Nobody expects that, nobody believes that and the insecurities of their staff, especially the senior ones, is signing through. It certainly makes far more sense to create new character than to try and re-engineer/rewrite the Ryder flop world into something people would re-engage with. Time will tell if BioWare still have talent and bravery to deliver a good mass effect story. It will be entirely forgettable. You won't remember what you did, or what it was about, the day after. not sure who this public is that expects shephard Check the comment section of Bioware's youtube and twitter posts, of the Will Continue teaser trailer. Fucking full of them. The public will have very little interest until an actual story comes out, speculation images are for hardcore fans and I don’t see many arguing sheps coming back. Because people doesn't care about images that show nothing. I tried. Not even interested to speculate if that Krogan is Wrex. They'll talk when they see Shepard in a video. The only thing this tells you, is that people have a very short field of interest in Mass Effect. And once it deviates from that, it's good bye, さらばだ. Assuming we're in a post-Destroy scenario, even if Shepard was the sole decision maker on that, she was part of the team that was responsible to stop the Reaper threat, and in turn, destroy the relay systems: she might very well want to find a way to make that work again; or if this is about an ancient, forgotten relay, it could be that she's curious on it. If it's hundreds of years later, it wouldn't matter. If the relay network isn't back up, there would be eezo drives far more advanced than before, that what time they'd lose from cluster to cluster travel, they would make up in in-cluster travel. It would be irrelevant. So even guilt trip would be irrelevant. You know when that would matter? The day after ME3. She might also be one of the most influential people in the galaxy (in secret, she was already was before), so she could lead or influence other to explore/repair the system. If she can retain her position as Shadow Broker with no possible means of travel for, what is likely, decades, sure. Otherwise, the Shadowbroker is a thing of the past. Obsolete, like the Relays and the Citadel. The fact that it might make sense (and I underline the might, as it could very well not, and she could simply be used to market the game. Case in point, Wrex's possible presence there, instead of Grunt) doesn't mean I like it or that I necessarily want Liara there. I could end up believing her presence makes sense there, but also not liking it. Both things could be true The only reason is trying to capitalize on popularity and misleading the fanbase, into believing something is happening, when it isn't.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 19:37:03 GMT
I'm representing the people that have a similar opinion as me. There are more than one person that can agree with me. We have 11 votes so far. As one of those 11, you are definitely not having a similar opinion as me. Speak only for yourself. As I said, if they don't go for Shepard, at least go for Ryder. Which isn't your view, specifically, but it is a way to say "don't do a new crew".
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 9, 2021 20:07:34 GMT
The purpose is to do a much better job this time round. But they won't. This isn't even up for discussion. It's not going to turn around now. Nobody expects that, nobody believes that and the insecurities of their staff, especially the senior ones, is signing through. It certainly makes far more sense to create new character than to try and re-engineer/rewrite the Ryder flop world into something people would re-engage with. Time will tell if BioWare still have talent and bravery to deliver a good mass effect story. It will be entirely forgettable. You won't remember what you did, or what it was about, the day after. It is of course up for discussion whether it'll be better. Your opinion on the matter does not equate to fact. While faith in Bioware aint what it was i'm relieved i'm not as jaded as you appear to be.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 9, 2021 20:13:17 GMT
Maybe there isn’t a reliable shepherd biography to read. My Shepard surviving ME3 there is. His role is similar to being the court jester. In ME1, sure, with her saying the word Ilos. ME2 didn't need her. Just have Cerberus be the ones to find Shepard. T'soni didn't need to become the broker. In ME3, instead of locking up Shepard, have him/her use the cipher to see if the Mars archives have any clues about stopping the reapers. Shepard finds the plans for the device. No t'soni needed.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 9, 2021 20:25:41 GMT
Sex sells my friend and money is king. There will be attractive characters in the next ME game. Even comic books which have become ultra woke have half naked women with impossible figures in them. Meanwhile the half naked women with impossible figures in Marvel comics Yeah. No. That's She-Hulk, by the way, not Hulk. Okay that is painful and stupid. I read she hulk and there was a good reason she didn't look like that in the older ones. Fair enough. However there are still a ton of hot video game women who are scantly clad or get bum shots.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 9, 2021 20:27:29 GMT
But they won't. This isn't even up for discussion. It's not going to turn around now. Nobody expects that, nobody believes that and the insecurities of their staff, especially the senior ones, is signing through. It will be entirely forgettable. You won't remember what you did, or what it was about, the day after. It is of course up for discussion whether it'll be better. Your opinion on the matter does not equate to fact. While faith in Bioware aint what it was i'm relieved i'm not as jaded as you appear to be.
I don't understand why people who are absolutely sure that the next bioware game will suck are still talking about it and coming here.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Nov 9, 2021 20:41:56 GMT
Why? She is the shadow broker, which is independently an important role in the MW galaxy. Also long lived, so a natural bridge character. Because she's retired. Bioware sent her off. Mac Walters told people that none of the trilogy characters are coming back, but the moment the shit hits the fan, they bring Liara back. And setting the game at a specific time period, so that the human squad members are conveniently dead, is insulting and hypocritical. Because you obviously never sent them off, that was never the intention, you just don't want to do what the fans want, but also need to do something to get interest back. or you're fucked, so you're bringing Liara back, for the second time, the second fucking time, now front and center. Hypocrisy at its finest. Not just the human characters. Even wrex would likely be dead in another five hundred years. He was already pushing a thousand at the end of ME3 and it says in the codex that krogan live for a thousand years. So it is likely that everyone except grunt and Liara would be dead in five hundred years post ME3. I don't see the big deal in bringing her back. They intended to switch to andromeda after ME3 but the game was full of bugs and was not well received so they may switch back to the milky way. If she comes back it will likely be like leliana is in DAI at most. She is also one of the few people that is guranteed alive at the end of ME3. It's basically her and Vega. Everybody else can die. So she is uniquely suited to being a bridge character. Yes they said that cast was retired but again they never planned to come back to the milky way.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 9, 2021 20:57:20 GMT
She is also one of the few people that is guranteed alive at the end of ME3. It's basically her and Vega. Everybody else can die. So she is uniquely suited to being a bridge character. That's incorrect. She can die as well as Vega. Yes ems has to be low enough, but she still dies.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 9, 2021 22:23:44 GMT
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 9, 2021 23:20:40 GMT
It is of course up for discussion whether it'll be better. Your opinion on the matter does not equate to fact. While faith in Bioware aint what it was i'm relieved i'm not as jaded as you appear to be. All they've done is show signs of deterioration. I've already told you that they are crunching again, then you have John Epler's post about his insecurity and self-reassurance. They are not in a good path, they know it and they are panicking. These are not the conditions they need to be working under, to produce anything good. I wouldn't expect Anthem, but at the same time, I would expect Anthem, if that makes any sense. Not just the human characters. Even wrex would likely be dead in another five hundred years. He was already pushing a thousand at the end of ME3 and it says in the codex that krogan live for a thousand years. So it is likely that everyone except grunt and Liara would be dead in five hundred years post ME3. I don't see the big deal in bringing her back. They intended to switch to andromeda after ME3 but the game was full of bugs and was not well received so they may switch back to the milky way. If she comes back it will likely be like leliana is in DAI at most. She is also one of the few people that is guranteed alive at the end of ME3. It's basically her and Vega. Everybody else can die. So she is uniquely suited to being a bridge character. Yes they said that cast was retired but again they never planned to come back to the milky way. I understand what you mean, but she already bridged the trilogy with Andromeda. There is no need to bring her back and no reason to un-retire her, unless it has something to do with the past. And if Liara's past is involved, then it concerns Shepard as well, because everything Liara does, revolves around Shepard. And if that's the case, neither story is done. Also, the fact that Andromeda did not stand on its own is further confirmation of what they can or cannot do. If Bioware thinks that Andromeda fans should only be fed some scraps of Liara's sloppy seconds, it's an issue with the franchise and something Bioware needs to address in a satisfying manner. But it also needs to be a title that sells more than five copies. And you need fans, good PR and faith, which Bioware has none at the moment. That's incorrect. She can die as well as Vega. Yes ems has to be low enough, but she still dies. This alone very much confirms that a canon will be set, regardless of what some people feel like. And frankly, it is one that the franchise needs, if it is to move forward from the ME3 endings. The franchise cannot survive otherwise, at this point. I know. Do you know how many years of roasting Marvel's She-Hulk it took to get that? I saw it a few weeks ago. But you can bet, it took a lot of roasting, half a decade of it, to actually get a result. And 90% of the time, it doesn't work. Because we're sexist, misogynist and, what was the other one? Perpetuators of rape culture, that's the one. My favourite, actually. It's like an esteemed title. Like Usurper of the Throne of Malice, or some shit.
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Guardian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 328 Likes: 510
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November 2016
guardian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Guardian on Nov 9, 2021 23:54:16 GMT
not sure who this public is that expects shephard Check the comment section of Bioware's youtube and twitter posts, of the Will Continue teaser trailer. Fucking full of them. He's right. As I've already said - outside of this forum, you go ask any "normie" (person just coming into the series from MELE), they are expecting Shepard and Co. to return. When you go to places like this, where we are, and have been since the beginning, we know that it's a snowball's chance in Hell the OG cast returning. I only have one friend that started the ME journey shortly after ME 1 came out, and he's not a normie. He saw the trailer, and while questions what it means, he's already told me - Shepard returns or we riot. This is what they've created with that trailer. I'd say they're looking at making another ME 3 ending debacle all over again, but at a much bigger magnitude. You can say that's not fair all you want; but the truth is, this is how it's perceived by those who are just coming into the franchise. I have three friends now that after completing MELE for the first time ever, two are utterly convinced Shepard is coming back. I had explained to them the entire situation and everything that happened, and it did nothing to persuade them. The third is cautiously optimistic. Cautiously optimistic! So yeah, I understand why you can question who those people feel that "Shepard is 100% back!" from the trailer might be, but they're out there. And they're out there in greater number than a lot of us realize.
But, until BioWare comes out and says one way or the other (which, they won't, until it's far, far too late), they're just going to be given more blame by fans they gained from MELE. While personally I have no opinion yet regarding a new cast and crew, there's no way honestly they could go back to Ryder and Co. They have become just as radioactive as the ME 3 ending is.
Yes, you can argue that the story is done, since the point was to find Humanity a home in Andromeda, and that's been accomplished. If you want to say, "My Ryder's story isn't done yet!", that's fine too. But you have to accept the same from those that say their Shepard's story isn't done yet, either. Whether or not this new crew will be any good or not is irrelevant at the moment (but...if it's anything like Andromeda's writing...then I wouldn't hold my breath).
As much as I'd like a better end for Shepard and Co., I accept that we're never going to get that. And unfortunately, a new crew is the only way they can go. I could be wrong, and the new crew could be decent, and pull it off. But right now, I'm just going to be guarded and patient, reading and listening to information. I will not get this game on day one. I will wait a week or two, perhaps a month, and listen to many reviews before deciding.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
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Apr 25, 2024 21:14:42 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Nov 9, 2021 23:56:53 GMT
If the option was Andromeda cast or all new I'll take all new every time. They'd have to work at it be worse than Andromeda.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
inherit
9886
0
Apr 25, 2024 21:14:42 GMT
3,483
ahglock
2,867
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Nov 10, 2021 0:12:00 GMT
Where might one read about this supposed new cast? A good question. On the N7 day blog, Mike Gamble talks about how they can't wait to introduce us to the new characters we are going to love. Let me dig up the link and quote.
It's not a tradition. At this point, it's the exception.
That doesn't say the old characters wont be there, it just as easily can mean a additive level of characters. ME1 to ME2, they kept most the ME1 characters but added a bunch of new ones.
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