Carcharoth
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Carcharoth42
PSN: Fenrisulfr42
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Post by Carcharoth on Nov 5, 2022 2:25:01 GMT
Showing the Andromeda galaxy could be nothing other than a visual metaphor for leaving it and returning to the Milky Way as a setting, and have no greater importance than that. It's really not that hard. We don't know what Meridian can do. It might be a relay or be able to tap into the relays. It could possibly cross galaxies. That sounds a little too much like another "space magic" crucible to me, but sure. It could. Or they could have sent plans to build relays with the arks. There's a lot of potential solutions to the travel thing. That's not the point I'm trying to make though. People take anything the devs show, hang their hopes on it, and then end up angry and disappointed if it didn't end up in the game the way they expected, if at all. I'm just saying that we shouldn't make assumptions based on a few tweets and a vague video until they release more concrete info on the setting. Intentionally showing the galaxy could mean it's half the plot, it could end up as a single discussion with Liara, or it could be just a metaphor for leaving that setting and returning to mass effect's roots. Unless there's a dev here that wants to spoil some plot points, we won't know for certain until much later.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 5, 2022 2:48:20 GMT
I would like them to "split" the franchise one set in MWG that can be the nightmare of fanservice with no real story or direction to go in and one set in Andromeda where the franchise could move forward and tell new, exciting, and better stories in. The Milky Way will be the dream for those that want a real story with direction while Andromeda has a duck trying to move forward with very little quack.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 5, 2022 3:02:11 GMT
It's really not that hard. We don't know what Meridian can do. It might be a relay or be able to tap into the relays. It could possibly cross galaxies. Not to mention part of the Initiative’s mission was to create a way to connect the two galaxies. There are definitely ways BioWare can make it work. Granted that’s bad news for anyone expecting Shepard and Co since they’d all be dead for half a millennium even in Destroy. So they build a relay. How do they know it will connect with any in the Milky Way? Did they have the top secret, double hush hush, pinky swear codes for each relay when they left? If red is chosen, those so-called codes are useless since the relays suffered damage. The codes would likely be different after the relay's are repaired/rebuilt. If both galaxies are to be connected for the next game, I would be curious what space magic explanation will be used.
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Antibaar
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Post by Antibaar on Nov 5, 2022 5:47:02 GMT
Not to mention part of the Initiative’s mission was to create a way to connect the two galaxies. There are definitely ways BioWare can make it work. Granted that’s bad news for anyone expecting Shepard and Co since they’d all be dead for half a millennium even in Destroy. So they build a relay. How do they know it will connect with any in the Milky Way? Did they have the top secret, double hush hush, pinky swear codes for each relay when they left? If red is chosen, those so-called codes are useless since the relays suffered damage. The codes would likely be different after the relay's are repaired/rebuilt. If both galaxies are to be connected for the next game, I would be curious what space magic explanation will be used. . It is posible the Jardaans traveled in mw, had must be an undiscovered mass relay that connects mw and andromeda, or nexus itself is a mass relay.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 5, 2022 6:38:32 GMT
So they build a relay. How do they know it will connect with any in the Milky Way? Did they have the top secret, double hush hush, pinky swear codes for each relay when they left? If red is chosen, those so-called codes are useless since the relays suffered damage. The codes would likely be different after the relay's are repaired/rebuilt. If both galaxies are to be connected for the next game, I would be curious what space magic explanation will be used. . It is posible the Jardaans traveled in mw, had must be an undiscovered mass relay that connects mw and andromeda, or nexus itself is a mass relay. Or we simply build our own. Aethyta in ME2 suggested it was possible, we had the Conduit to examine as well, plus the Mysterious Benefactor clearly has more knowledge than most of the galaxy since they helped develop the ODSY Drive.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 5, 2022 11:45:41 GMT
So they build a relay. How do they know it will connect with any in the Milky Way? Did they have the top secret, double hush hush, pinky swear codes for each relay when they left? If red is chosen, those so-called codes are useless since the relays suffered damage. The codes would likely be different after the relay's are repaired/rebuilt. If both galaxies are to be connected for the next game, I would be curious what space magic explanation will be used. . It is posible the Jardaans traveled in mw, had must be an undiscovered mass relay that connects mw and andromeda, or nexus itself is a mass relay. The Jardaans end up being like the reapers? Not leaving anything behind for anyone to know an unknown species was in their galaxy. If the Jardaan were in the Milky Way, found an undiscovered relay, came back to Andromeda to build their own to connect with MW, does that mean there is a hidden relay somewhere in the cluster? What does the Nexus have to do with anything? If it turns out to be a relay, is Bioware copying the trilogy by having a space station be a relay? If so, can MEA and any sequels be called ME trilogy 2.0? Even if the station turns out to be a relay, how do they know it will work with a relay in the Milky Way? If red is chosen, the relays are damaged. There's no guarantee any relay in the Milky Way will be operational. At least a relay outside of the active ones from the trilogy. . . It is posible the Jardaans traveled in mw, had must be an undiscovered mass relay that connects mw and andromeda, or nexus itself is a mass relay. Or we simply build our own. Aethyta in ME2 suggested it was possible, we had the Conduit to examine as well, plus the Mysterious Benefactor clearly has more knowledge than most of the galaxy since they helped develop the ODSY Drive. Ah yes, the mysterious benefactor. If this so-called benefactor has this so-called knowledge, why didn't he/she/they/it inform anyone about it instead of waiting to help a woman who can't manage her finances? Like I've said before. I don't agree with connecting both galaxies. It will likely end up being some space magic explanation
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 5, 2022 11:55:39 GMT
The game being set hundreds of years later is likely to key the pulling threads together into a single story.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 5, 2022 12:58:20 GMT
I'd find it rather awful if they trivialized the 2.5 million light year distance between the galaxies to a relay jump - space feels small enough in the ME franchise as it is. It's not like you could tell the difference from looking out of a spaceship's window, and the quality of story and characters is completely independent of its location. Both galaxies are almost completely unexplored with more than enough unknown space to serve as settings for new stories.
Given how many years later this is going to be released I'd prefer a new protagonist and a new story in the Milky Way - might as well go with the original if most of the people we met in Andromeda were imports from there anyway and there's no need to drag years old story baggage along.
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Post by ClarkKent on Nov 5, 2022 13:21:19 GMT
I'd find it rather awful if they trivialized the 2.5 million light year distance between the galaxies to a relay jump - space feels small enough in the ME franchise as it is. It's not like you could tell the difference from looking out of a spaceship's window, and the quality of story and characters is completely independent of its location. Both galaxies are almost completely unexplored with more than enough unknown space to serve as settings for new stories. Given how many years later this is going to be released I'd prefer a new protagonist and a new story in the Milky Way - might as well go with the original if most of the people we met in Andromeda were imports from there anyway and there's no need to drag years old story baggage along. It's strange because Mass Effect's sibling franchise Dragon Age gets a lot wrong but is genuinely quite successful at expanding the lore and setting in interesting ways. By comparison, the Mass Effect writers almost seem to have a contempt for their own setting in a way.
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Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 0:19:44 GMT
I think it's pretty clear that both the trilogy and Andromeda will be followed up. Yeah, it heavily implied we will have Andromeda and Milky Way connect, very likely by newly constructed Mass Relays.
Hopefully we will continue as Ryder, but new protagonist that will work with Ryder is acceptable compromise.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 7, 2022 1:09:47 GMT
To be honest, expecting BioWare to ignore the fourth game seems hugely naive...
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 7, 2022 5:01:51 GMT
My guess is that trans-galactic travel will be possible with this... Mike said it's -not- a relay, so I'm guessing it's a ship - eg. a "Mass Runner". Given its size, it could carry a huge crew and numerous smaller vessels.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 7, 2022 9:11:52 GMT
My guess is that trans-galactic travel will be possible with this... Mike said it's -not- a relay, so I'm guessing it's a ship - eg. a "Mass Runner". Given its size, it could carry a huge crew and numerous smaller vessels. Isnt that just some art from 5 years back?
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 9:41:22 GMT
My guess is that trans-galactic travel will be possible with this... Mike said it's -not- a relay, so I'm guessing it's a ship - eg. a "Mass Runner". Given its size, it could carry a huge crew and numerous smaller vessels. Isnt that just some art from 5 years back? Nope, this artwork came out after N7 Day of 2020. Here's a link to PC Gamer talking about leaked images back on 17th November 2020.
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Post by ClarkKent on Nov 7, 2022 10:29:55 GMT
To be honest, expecting BioWare to ignore the fourth game seems hugely naive... Not when the fourth game was set in a literal different galaxy. And didn't the fourth game ignore the last three games?
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Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 10:53:25 GMT
To be honest, expecting BioWare to ignore the fourth game seems hugely naive... Not when the fourth game was set in a literal different galaxy. And didn't the fourth game ignore the last three games? No???
There are plenty of tie-ins and references to the trilogy.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 7, 2022 12:07:12 GMT
And didn't the fourth game ignore the last three games? Here is the fourth game specifically addressing the arrival of the reapers.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 7, 2022 12:35:41 GMT
My guess is that trans-galactic travel will be possible with this... Mike said it's -not- a relay, so I'm guessing it's a ship - eg. a "Mass Runner". Given its size, it could carry a huge crew and numerous smaller vessels. Is that the same Gamble who said on his twit account we take players choice seriously? It turned out he was wrong. Until something is confirmed, I will take what Gamble says as a grain of salt. Looking at the image, it has Cerberus colors. Is Cerberus going to have a role in the next game? I know my Shepard would like to have Cerberus rebuilt to return to their glory days of ME2. If it's a ship, how long did it take to build? Was it built in the Milky Way?
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Post by ClarkKent on Nov 7, 2022 12:43:50 GMT
So the next Mass Effect game can be set entirely in the Milky Way but perhaps have a few passing references to the initiative and maybe a monologue by Peebee? Okay, sounds good to me
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Post by lavigne on Nov 7, 2022 14:08:56 GMT
Realistically, I doubt that MEA will be totally absent/ignored, but I’d be amazed if it’s the primary focus of the new game. BW are in the last chance saloon with ME, another failure and I can’t see them getting another go. That being the case I expect BW to run to safe ground, which will be predominantly returning to the MW with a secondary tie to Andromeda in some form.
The danger here is that they’ll try to compromise for people who DID like MEA and those that DIDN’T, and could end up frustrating everyone.
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 14:34:48 GMT
Realistically, I doubt that MEA will be totally absent/ignored, but I’d be amazed if it’s the primary focus of the new game. BW are in the last chance saloon with ME, another failure and I can’t see them getting another go. That being the case I expect BW to run to safe ground, which will be predominantly returning to the MW with a secondary tie to Andromeda in some form. The danger here is that they’ll try to compromise for people who DID like MEA and those that DIDN’T, and could end up frustrating everyone. You don't just abandon last installment just because people made fun of facial animations.
Main criticism of MEA were based on technical performance and open world side quests( from being boring to lack of cinematics). People who complained about story and characters mainly complained about it wasn't Shepard or Shepard 2.0, as well characters not having trilogy amount of character development within single game. BioWare is not bringing back Shepard, they are not gonna do Shepard 2.0 and new game will still have same issue of new characters not living up to trilogy characters standards, as it's impossible to do that within single game.
No, going back to Milky Way exclusively is NOT safe move and it is very unwise. All the while you'd piss off Andromeda fans, not only abandoning their Ryder(s), characters and all the mysteries build upon but not concluded. That's angering one part of fanbase, only to appeal to other part that may be impossible to please anyway, with what they demand story and characters wise.
Besides MEA still sold well, managed to keep healthy active playerbase( hell it's MP is still quite active) and reason for lack of DLCs wasn't due to backlash, but due to BW Montreal merger to EA Motive was decided before the game was release, while BW Edmonton had to abandon original DAD project to save Anthem. They had nobody to develop MEA DLCs, which would have definitely repair MEA reputation after initial overblown backlash.
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 15:36:51 GMT
Oh just an interesting tidbit, a summary of who could show up in NME if it's set 6 centuries after the Reaper War. Caveats are Grunt can die in ME2 in Suicide Mission or ME3 if you don't do his mission or if you didn't do his LM in ME2. Liara can also die in ME3 in low war assets ending either killed by Harbinger or Normandy crashing on an unknown planet but nobody exits out of it.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 7, 2022 15:40:29 GMT
Honestly I feel that if we are really going to have a setting that now encompasses two entire galaxies, both of which were less than 1% explored, that the scale and scope of the things have reached a point where Dragonball Z has more realism in it's characters' power levels than Mass Effect will have with have with the size of the universe in general. I mean, if the next installment is going to deal with the creation of a trans-galactic relay and/or having people in locations over 2 million light years apart from each other interacting in a major way I feel that the concept of space travel has become moot to the point where we should just go back to having everything happen on a single planet. At least that way we won't have to try and reconcile the actual size of the universe with a setting where crossing the inter-galactic void is less of a chore than running down the street to buy groceries. Some might call that nitpicking, and maybe it is on my part, but if we are trivializing everything about the scale of the universe then how do you instill in your audience a fear for the characters/setting? 'Oh no, the Nu-Reapers are attacking' Okay, so why not just fly off to HD1? Why not just leave the universe entirely and cruise off to the multi-verse?
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,987 Likes: 4,357
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Post by Croatsky on Nov 7, 2022 15:53:04 GMT
Honestly I feel that if we are really going to have a setting that now encompasses two entire galaxies, both of which were less than 1% explored, that the scale and scope of the things have reached a point where Dragonball Z has more realism in it's characters' power levels than Mass Effect will have with have with the size of the universe in general. I mean, if the next installment is going to deal with the creation of a trans-galactic relay and/or having people in locations over 2 million light years apart from each other interacting in a major way I feel that the concept of space travel has become moot to the point where we should just go back to having everything happen on a single planet. At least that way we won't have to try and reconcile the actual size of the universe with a setting where crossing the inter-galactic void is less of a chore than running down the street to buy groceries. Some might call that nitpicking, and maybe it is on my part, but if we are trivializing everything about the scale of the universe then how do you instill in your audience a fear for the characters/setting? 'Oh no, the Nu-Reapers are attacking' Okay, so why not just fly off to HD1? Why not just leave the universe entirely and cruise off to the multi-verse? A few reasons.
1. Only like around 120k people left Milky Way on Andromeda Initiative arks, leaving 100s of billions to trillions behind.
2. Reapers control Mass Relay technology and while possible we have yet to see anyone build new Mass Relay. Afterall current Mass Relays bring you anywhere you need, so it doesn't appear economical. Discoveries in Andromeda and whatever contingency plans were made with AI project, will change that incentive.
3. Reapers depended a lot on surprise attack, Prothean scientists from Ilos created opportunity for AI to get time and funding to build arks.
4. Even if flying to Andromeda was made so casual and with ease, not only would Reapers likely follow to other galaxy using same means to eliminate threat, but most people would still not be able to flee or even want to. Most people want to defend their homes after all.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 7, 2022 16:21:48 GMT
Honestly I feel that if we are really going to have a setting that now encompasses two entire galaxies, both of which were less than 1% explored, that the scale and scope of the things have reached a point where Dragonball Z has more realism in it's characters' power levels than Mass Effect will have with have with the size of the universe in general. I mean, if the next installment is going to deal with the creation of a trans-galactic relay and/or having people in locations over 2 million light years apart from each other interacting in a major way I feel that the concept of space travel has become moot to the point where we should just go back to having everything happen on a single planet. At least that way we won't have to try and reconcile the actual size of the universe with a setting where crossing the inter-galactic void is less of a chore than running down the street to buy groceries. Some might call that nitpicking, and maybe it is on my part, but if we are trivializing everything about the scale of the universe then how do you instill in your audience a fear for the characters/setting? 'Oh no, the Nu-Reapers are attacking' Okay, so why not just fly off to HD1? Why not just leave the universe entirely and cruise off to the multi-verse? A few reasons.
1. Only like around 120k people left Milky Way on Andromeda Initiative arks, leaving 100s of billions to trillions behind.
2. Reapers control Mass Relay technology and while possible we have yet to see anyone build new Mass Relay. Afterall current Mass Relays bring you anywhere you need, so it doesn't appear economical. Discoveries in Andromeda and whatever contingency plans were made with AI project, will change that incentive.
3. Reapers depended a lot on surprise attack, Prothean scientists from Ilos created opportunity for AI to get time and funding to build arks.
4. Even if flying to Andromeda was made so casual and with ease, not only would Reapers likely follow to other galaxy using same means to eliminate threat, but most people would still not be able to flee or even want to. Most people want to defend their homes after all.
But that was the whole (secret) point of the Andromeda Initiative was it not? To flee Reapers and ensure the survival of the major Milky Way species? So if the main point of the AI, or a similar project, is to have a lifeboat then what's to stop people from just doing that again if things ever get bad? ME:A already broke one of the fundamental rules of the setting with their magical ODYSSEY drives that never need to be discharged. And speculation is high on the latest installment having the races of the Milky Way or AI building a Relay to cross galactic darkspace. So if FTL range is no longer an issue, and building a Mass Relay is now trivial then why couldn't you just perpetually have a life raft out there seeding the universe with protagonists? The Reapers, or their replacement villains, can't be everywhere in the universe at once so they will never be able to catch everyone, and the only reason why the Milky Way races fought to stop them in ME 1 -3 was because they had nowhere else to go. Shepard could just as easily been pushing for an escape plan if the setting would have allowed for it; and right up until ME:A suddenly said that it was possible. That's the main problem. Now that there is no restrictions on your protagonists in terms of distance, the entire universe trivialized to little more than a long roadtrip in terms of scale, you will now always be faced with the question of "Why don't you just run?" Why not pull a Rick & Morty and just flip the villain the bird while you fly off somewhere else in the infinity of space to start over?
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