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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2022 1:59:19 GMT
Umm... all of the entries about FTL travel state that it works by reducing mass. Again, provide a wiki link. I want to see it for myself. masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/FTLFTL drives are devices which allow ships to travel at FTL speeds through space. FTL drive cores work by exposing element zero to electric currents, creating mass effect fields. It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible. With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise without bending space-time and causing time dilation.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 17, 2022 2:02:07 GMT
The fighters were fighting. Prove it. Show a scene where there's debris seen around the Nexus. I didn't see any when I went back to the Nexus. Only people like you have to come up with some headcanon crap to explain why your precious Initiative didn't have any defenses in place when an enemy shows up taking the Hyperion. The kett did it with ease. So much for that fighter crap you mentioned. The pilots must have been playing video games pretending they were flying a fighter against the bad guys. Why would a civilian carrier put defenses on their vessel? How many have gone to another galaxy? The Initiative built fancy ships with all the crap yet pay little attention to providing any safety and security for those ships? Didn't those ships have a fighter escort in the Milky Way until they got to darkspace? Why wasn't the fighters on the Hyperion deployed to be used as an escort when it entered Andromeda?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 17, 2022 2:08:16 GMT
Again, provide a wiki link. I want to see it for myself. masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/FTLFTL drives are devices which allow ships to travel at FTL speeds through space. FTL drive cores work by exposing element zero to electric currents, creating mass effect fields. It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible. With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise without bending space-time and causing time dilation. Finally, thanks. It says nothing about land based vehicles like the Mako being able to sustain a mass effect field for very long. Nor does it say that the Mako can use it's drive core the same way as a starship.
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Post by Spectr61 on Feb 17, 2022 17:32:54 GMT
You know, regardless of whether we go back to the Milky Way or stay in Andromeda I would very much like to have the theme of aliens as 'alien' at the forefront of the world building. Granted, this is likely an impossible ask seeing as how BioWare would much rather have aliens that are 'easy to cosplay as' or spend their time #makingJalBi but it would be really nice to see something that wasn't just a human in a rubber costume, or a mindless sudoku puzzle. Seriously BioWare, hire this guy if you can't get Chris Le'Toile back. His name is Callum Stephen Diggle and the aliens he created for this setting are far more compelling than the entirety of what they gave us for Andromeda, and most of the Milky Way too. Here, Here! Get L'Etoile back! Though I doubt it. Barring that, how about the the ME is set in whichever galaxy has the best hair?
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Post by themikefest on Feb 17, 2022 17:56:34 GMT
Barring that, how about the the ME is set in whichever galaxy has the best hair? Kai Leng has the best hairstyle. So that means the Milky Way will be host to ME4
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Post by Spectr61 on Feb 17, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
The Hairs have it then!
Bring on the Milky Way!
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 17, 2022 23:09:45 GMT
Nope, not at all the same argument, because 1, the tempest does not have a stealth drive, it has no weapons, it's not testing a new CIC design. It represents nothing other than an unarmed ship that can't hide its presence. The ship provides no tactical benefit whatsoever, which was not the case with Normandy. exploration vessels need weapons for self defense, end of story. There is no defending this point unless you're just willfully being an idiotic fanboy. Every manned exploration vessel in history had weapons to defend themselves, because people aren't as stupid as the AI is written to be. The Tempest does have a stealth drive. From the wiki: Owing to both the Citadel Council's restrictions on civilian vessels bearing military-grade weaponry, and the Initiative's own emphasis on peaceful exploration, the Tempest completely lacks any external armaments such as torpedo launchers or mass accelerator cannons. Heavy armour and a main gun were traded in the design phase for a vessel that is small, stealthy and fast, capable of both interstellar exploration and subtle infiltration in equal measure. With an IES stealth system derived from the technology first employed by the SSV Normandy, the Tempest can remain hidden from most forms of detection, while its superior speed and maneuverability make it easily able to evade any pursuing vessels should its presence be discovered. Well then, Bioware themselves clearly forgot that fact, because they never use it once, in the entire game, when it would have been useful multiple times.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 17, 2022 23:12:31 GMT
Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. *shrugs* Making the Arks into dreadnoughts would have failed any rational cost-benefit analysis. There's a window of, what, a couple of decades where a handful of dreadnaughts can be competitive with a new interstellar power. After that, you'll be at their mercy even if you brought dreadnaughts, and if that situation didn't come up at all, you've put yourselves decades behind in terms of papulation and economic growth, which is another way to lost to hostile alien civilizations. And you don't send unarmed colonists into uncharted lands either. I'm sorry, but that's basic logic. Not once in history was unarmed civilians told to go settle a place and just pray the natives would be receptive.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2022 1:27:02 GMT
*shrugs* Making the Arks into dreadnoughts would have failed any rational cost-benefit analysis. There's a window of, what, a couple of decades where a handful of dreadnaughts can be competitive with a new interstellar power. After that, you'll be at their mercy even if you brought dreadnaughts, and if that situation didn't come up at all, you've put yourselves decades behind in terms of papulation and economic growth, which is another way to lost to hostile alien civilizations. And you don't send unarmed colonists into uncharted lands either. I'm sorry, but that's basic logic. Not once in history was unarmed civilians told to go settle a place and just pray the natives would be receptive. Except once again, they weren’t unarmed. They had squadrons of fighters, cannons that were for settlements but probably could be used for defense, and of course loads of info try weapons. They were better equipped than most colonist vessels. For example the Mayflower only had 12 cannons plus muskets.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2022 1:28:41 GMT
The Tempest does have a stealth drive. From the wiki: Owing to both the Citadel Council's restrictions on civilian vessels bearing military-grade weaponry, and the Initiative's own emphasis on peaceful exploration, the Tempest completely lacks any external armaments such as torpedo launchers or mass accelerator cannons. Heavy armour and a main gun were traded in the design phase for a vessel that is small, stealthy and fast, capable of both interstellar exploration and subtle infiltration in equal measure. With an IES stealth system derived from the technology first employed by the SSV Normandy, the Tempest can remain hidden from most forms of detection, while its superior speed and maneuverability make it easily able to evade any pursuing vessels should its presence be discovered. Well then, Bioware themselves clearly forgot that fact, because they never use it once, in the entire game, when it would have been useful multiple times. They used it a few times. For example when docking with the Salarian Ark with the Archon’s ship right there, or used it along with other tech when going into what they thought was Meridian.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 18, 2022 8:14:31 GMT
Having a bunch of fighters is not the same thing as having actual ship to ship weapons. It's like being a ship without cannons sending out boats with musketeers against a ship that does have cannons.
The Tempest may have a stealth drive and may be super fast, but the crew seems to be constantly forgetting to use it. Like in that super silly scene when the Archon "ambushes" the Tempest... "Collision with unknown object imminent, hit the brakes!" Erm. Engage stealth and, you know, go around it? You're in space, you can go in any direction, plus the minimal correction necessary to avoid a ship in space should be much easier to make than a full stop from FTL (!).
How do you ambush a ship in space anyway when it moves at FTL speed? How do you know where it's going to be at any given time until it drops out of FTL speed?
But hey, it's the AI, the guys who didn't bring any backup power generation as simple as solar panels to power their cryo pods and desperately needed "feet on the ground" without doing any checks on the planet from orbit. Andromeda's writing works best when you don't think about it too much.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 18, 2022 11:57:27 GMT
The Tempest does have a stealth drive. From the wiki: Owing to both the Citadel Council's restrictions on civilian vessels bearing military-grade weaponry, and the Initiative's own emphasis on peaceful exploration, the Tempest completely lacks any external armaments such as torpedo launchers or mass accelerator cannons. Heavy armour and a main gun were traded in the design phase for a vessel that is small, stealthy and fast, capable of both interstellar exploration and subtle infiltration in equal measure. With an IES stealth system derived from the technology first employed by the SSV Normandy, the Tempest can remain hidden from most forms of detection, while its superior speed and maneuverability make it easily able to evade any pursuing vessels should its presence be discovered. Well then, Bioware themselves clearly forgot that fact, because they never use it once, in the entire game, when it would have been useful multiple times. Acrtually I do remembre Ryder saying keep us stealthed Kallo no sense in picking a fight when the ship entres the Tafeno system where the Archon's ship is.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 18, 2022 17:34:29 GMT
Having a bunch of fighters is not the same thing as having actual ship to ship weapons. It's like being a ship without cannons sending out boats with musketeers against a ship that does have cannons. This is exactly correct. Saying Fighters is adequate defense from foreign powers who have the ability to use battleships is just ridiculous. This isn't a universe where 1 X-Wing can make a 1 in a million shot and blow up the Super Doom Ship with literal magic. And for all these supposed fighters I keep hearing about, I never see them. Not even during Liams mission where soldiers from Eos show up to "help", in shuttles with no weapons...even if you picked a military outpost. YOu know, during that extremely important mission when the entire AI is at risk due to Liams stupidity? Guess the fate of the AI isn't important enough for fighters. We gotta settle for unarmed shuttles full of soldiers whose only contribution is altering shipboard systems, which SAM could easily have done, because SAM does everything the fuck else in any other situation because SAM is a writing crutch.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 18, 2022 18:21:35 GMT
masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/FTLFTL drives are devices which allow ships to travel at FTL speeds through space. FTL drive cores work by exposing element zero to electric currents, creating mass effect fields. It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible. With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise without bending space-time and causing time dilation. Finally, thanks. It says nothing about land based vehicles like the Mako being able to sustain a mass effect field for very long. Nor does it say that the Mako can use it's drive core the same way as a starship. Not sure about the exact context of your discussion but in the case of the MAKO, the codex is quite specific as to what the eezo core of the vehicle can and can't do (and it can't do that much actually):
EDIT: Oh, I see the context now. On that point, I'd agree with the others. It's pretty plausible - in universe - that the Mako does not need any internal tech to use the Mass Relays (like the conduit). There is no evidence that normal ships need any specific equipment to go through normal relays. In fact, given that Grissom survived the very first attempt of humans to do it, probably in a ship without any special equipment at the time, corroborates that relays "just work".
If there is an issue with the conduit, it's that for some reason it doesn't produce any drift as you'd expect (given that it send the MAKO almost all the way to the other side if the galaxy and is therefore one of the longest single relay jumps in the Milky Way, just look at how far Ilos is from the Citadel on the star map). In the beginning of ME1, Nihlus says that 15000 "k" is good. Assuming he meant kilometers, it would be a miracle that the MAKO landed right next to the conduit receiver on the presidium (and since it also worked for the prothean scientists who went through it, the conduit is 2 for 2).
Two possible explanations for this: 1. Somehow the protheans not only replicated but even improved on the reaper's relay tech. Seems implausible to me, after all, the conduit is just a prototype. 2. Maybe drift is somehow correlated with the mass of the object transported and the MAKO, being a very small vehicle, compared to, say, the Normandy barely produces any.
The most likely thing here though it's just one more instance where cutscenes (and to some extent the plot) ignore the codex, as they often do. After all, whenever we see ships arriving through relays, we never see drift (see the Normandy's arrival on Ilos or the arrival of the fleets at Earth in ME3).
... ok, that escalated quickly, I am sorry.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 18, 2022 18:42:43 GMT
Having a bunch of fighters is not the same thing as having actual ship to ship weapons. It's like being a ship without cannons sending out boats with musketeers against a ship that does have cannons. This is exactly correct. Saying Fighters is adequate defense from foreign powers who have the ability to use battleships is just ridiculous. This isn't a universe where 1 X-Wing can make a 1 in a million shot and blow up the Super Doom Ship with literal magic. And for all these supposed fighters I keep hearing about, I never see them. Not even during Liams mission where soldiers from Eos show up to "help", in shuttles with no weapons...even if you picked a military outpost. YOu know, during that extremely important mission when the entire AI is at risk due to Liams stupidity? Guess the fate of the AI isn't important enough for fighters. We gotta settle for unarmed shuttles full of soldiers whose only contribution is altering shipboard systems, which SAM could easily have done, because SAM does everything the fuck else in any other situation because SAM is a writing crutch. Hmmm, I do remember the colonists fighting off the enemy during the mission.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 18, 2022 19:39:42 GMT
This is exactly correct. Saying Fighters is adequate defense from foreign powers who have the ability to use battleships is just ridiculous. This isn't a universe where 1 X-Wing can make a 1 in a million shot and blow up the Super Doom Ship with literal magic. And for all these supposed fighters I keep hearing about, I never see them. Not even during Liams mission where soldiers from Eos show up to "help", in shuttles with no weapons...even if you picked a military outpost. YOu know, during that extremely important mission when the entire AI is at risk due to Liams stupidity? Guess the fate of the AI isn't important enough for fighters. We gotta settle for unarmed shuttles full of soldiers whose only contribution is altering shipboard systems, which SAM could easily have done, because SAM does everything the fuck else in any other situation because SAM is a writing crutch. Hmmm, I do remember the colonists fighting off the enemy during the mission. Then my game must have been horribly bugged, because all I got was a bunch of "soldiers" in shuttles, telling me they can't really do anything except hack systems.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2022 19:41:04 GMT
Having a bunch of fighters is not the same thing as having actual ship to ship weapons. It's like being a ship without cannons sending out boats with musketeers against a ship that does have cannons. This is exactly correct. Saying Fighters is adequate defense from foreign powers who have the ability to use battleships is just ridiculous. This isn't a universe where 1 X-Wing can make a 1 in a million shot and blow up the Super Doom Ship with literal magic. And for all these supposed fighters I keep hearing about, I never see them. Not even during Liams mission where soldiers from Eos show up to "help", in shuttles with no weapons...even if you picked a military outpost. YOu know, during that extremely important mission when the entire AI is at risk due to Liams stupidity? Guess the fate of the AI isn't important enough for fighters. We gotta settle for unarmed shuttles full of soldiers whose only contribution is altering shipboard systems, which SAM could easily have done, because SAM does everything the fuck else in any other situation because SAM is a writing crutch. *looks at real life naval battles where fighters made battleships useless such as Midway* Oh yeah, fighters have never been good at defending ships and bases. Also we see them, such as during the final battle in Meridian.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 18, 2022 20:27:52 GMT
*looks at real life naval battles where fighters made battleships useless such as Midway* Oh yeah, fighters have never been good at defending ships and bases. Also we see them, such as during the final battle in Meridian. Never saw any fighters defending the Nexus when the kett showed up to take the Hyperion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2022 20:44:44 GMT
*looks at real life naval battles where fighters made battleships useless such as Midway* Oh yeah, fighters have never been good at defending ships and bases. Also we see them, such as during the final battle in Meridian. Never saw any fighters defending the Nexus when the kett showed up to take the Hyperion. Never saw outside a couple hallways of the Hyperion during that scene, so you wouldn’t have.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 18, 2022 21:30:05 GMT
Never saw any fighters defending the Nexus when the kett showed up to take the Hyperion. Never saw outside a couple hallways of the Hyperion during that scene, so you wouldn’t have. You're right. That's because there were none defending the Nexus. Since there is no debris seen in the surrounding area around the Nexus, the kett ran into no Initiative fighter.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 19, 2022 0:47:23 GMT
Never saw outside a couple hallways of the Hyperion during that scene, so you wouldn’t have. You're right. That's because there were none defending the Nexus. Since there is no debris seen in the surrounding area around the Nexus, the kett ran into no Initiative fighter. Everything disagrees with you. As for the lack of debris, the next time we see the Nexus is weeks after the battle so there’s lots of explanations from the debris was cleared, it fell into the gas giant the Nexus is orbiting, the Nexus moved, the devs didn’t have time to put that in like the changes to the planets we see, etc.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 19, 2022 1:36:11 GMT
Everything disagrees with you. Do tell. Is it weeks? Is there anything supporting that? Interesting there is no mention about the kett taking the Hyperion and/or the fighters defending the Nexus after Meridian is in the hands of the Initiative. Is that the same excuse you will use to explain why maintenance personnel don't have a scanner at the beginning of the game? Is that the same excuse you will use to explain why the Hyperion didn't deploy fighters to escort the ship when it entered Andromeda? Is that the same excuse why they didn't open the sibling's pod in the same area as the Ryder you chose to play? Is that the same excuse you will use to explain why Ryder didn't scan the robot before bringing it back on the ship? Is that the same excuse you will use why the Nexus didn't have a pathfinder on it? Is that the same excuse you will use to explain why Garson made no attempt to investigate the benefactor before accepting all that dough?
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Post by ClarkKent on Feb 19, 2022 8:40:14 GMT
Why, exactly? neither the Angara, or the AI have warships, at all. The AI is an idiotic organization that deliberately chose to show up in foreign lands with NO WEAPONS. None of the AI's ground vehicles even have weapons. What could these groups do to stop a fully focused Kett attack exactly? The Kett could sit in orbit, with their warships, and just bomb planets into submission. For gods sake the one time at the end of the game Ryder magically summons the Forerunner ships, THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING SHOOT! This is the most ridiculous, lopsided set up I've ever seen in fiction. It's like a bunch of brain dead fanatical pacificts wrote this crap. Ryder can't be everywhere, and your team is clearly the only ones capable of defeating any Kett at all given the missions we're given the whole game. THe only reason the Kett haven't already won is pure narrative bullshitery. Essentially i take the view that by the end of the trilogy Bioware was very uncomfortable with the militaristic setting they'd created(hence their perfect ending is space jesus) Andromeda is a bad extension of this. Hopefully this trend isn't continued in ME4. More than that I think, with Andromeda, Bioware wanted to avoid at all costs any uncomfortable parallels with colonialism that go hand in hand with themes of 'exploring and settling new worlds'.
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Post by jamiecotc on Feb 19, 2022 17:58:58 GMT
BioWare has a habit of overcorrecting. I suspect the next game will link the two galaxies somehow, but what happened in ME:A will become not much more than a footnote. Either way, we have a long wait ahead to find out.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 19, 2022 18:08:16 GMT
BioWare has a habit of overcorrecting. I suspect the next game will link the two galaxies somehow, but what happened in ME:A will become not much more than a footnote. Either way, we have a long wait ahead to find out. Or everyone in Andromeda died.
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