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Post by Heimdall on Jun 4, 2022 13:21:24 GMT
So it’s been years since the Keep got any kind of substantive update and it is an old site.
So do you think BioWare will update the existing site to include DAD content (and a DAI summary video), overhaul the whole thing with a sleek modern website, or possibly ignore the site in favor of an offline tool included with DAD itself?
Alternatively they could ignore it entirely and forgo decision carryover except by setting a few variables in the early hours of the game (I doubt this)
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 4, 2022 13:46:44 GMT
I think the best way would be an optional 'story so far' checklist you click at the start of the game itself.
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 4, 2022 14:20:03 GMT
I suspect they'll just update the keep though personally I'd prefer an offline system that would work with both Inquisition and Dreadwolf so both games can be adjusted and updated with our choices as we go. Admittedly they can't do what they did with the ME trilogy as all the trilogy games used the same engine so it's obvious another method is reqiured but an offline vresoin of the keepthat works wit hboth Inquisition and Dreadwolf would be nice. I'll admitthough I doub tthey'd do it as it would likely mean going back and patching Inquisition to enable the game to do that because atm it's only programmed to take info off the Keep
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 4, 2022 14:34:19 GMT
I really like the Keep myself. They put a tremendous amount of work into it, and I think it'd be a shame if they didn't keep it (and continue to update it). We need something, and... it already exists. If they want to give it a little freshening up for the new game - sure. If, at some point in the distant future they no longer wanted to host it, then I'd hope we'd get an offline version. That could be a simple checklist app.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 16:33:48 GMT
I would say update the Keep and add some choices like flirting with Harding or not and most important are Dorian and The Iron Bull together or not. That´s hard work to trigger their relationship and pretty time consuming.
By the way what´s the alternative? Do you guys and gals really want a Genesis comic with that litte choices for Dreadwolf? I guess not.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 4, 2022 17:14:05 GMT
Yeah, they need to add something for flirting with Harding, especially since it's referenced in Trespasser. Also 'did Sera get together with Dagna?' They could either add a 'were Iron Bull and Dorian fucking?' tile as well, or treat it as the default state if both of them are alive and neither was romance by the player.
They could of course ignore that relationship completely, but that seems unlikely given that Patrick Weekes is one of the original Adoribull shippers. I don't expect huge amounts of reactivity, but I do think that we'll get a chance to interrogate Dorian about his love life at some point and he'll have options for 'yes, the rumours are true, I'm with the Inquisitor' and 'yes, the rumours are true, I'm with that qunari mercenary captain' as well as brushing you off if neither thing happened.
IIRC those are the only things that change what happens in Trespasser that don't already have a tile in the Keep and can't be inferred from other tiles. Maryden's love life has several different states, but all of them are dependent on decisions that are already in there.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 4, 2022 17:14:06 GMT
I would say update the Keep and add some choices like flirting with Harding or not and most important are Dorian and The Iron Bull together or not. That´s hard work to trigger their relationship and pretty time consuming. By the way what´s the alternative? Do you guys and gals really want a Genesis comic with that litte choices for Dreadwolf? I guess not. I kind of like the idea of an offline option because it means I will always be able to replay with various world states instead of being reliant on a service that will go down someday. So something like the Keep but downloadable with the game would be nice.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 4, 2022 17:15:46 GMT
I would say update the Keep and add some choices like flirting with Harding or not and most important are Dorian and The Iron Bull together or not. That´s hard work to trigger their relationship and pretty time consuming. By the way what´s the alternative? Do you guys and gals really want a Genesis comic with that litte choices for Dreadwolf? I guess not. I think an offlin eversion o fth ekeep w ecan download would do I think. Keeping the keep on servers tha tnered to b emaintained s people can keep using i tcould ge texpensive ove rtim eespecially if Bioware or EA god forbid decided to call time on the series. I'm not saying it will happen yet but it could and possibly will happen someday. Creating an offline keep would allow thos eof us who enjoy it t okeep playing the series taking our saves with us as we go much like we have done with the ME trilogy. I think those of us who bough these games and all their DLC's would appreciate the option of continuing to play these great games even if Bioware and EA decide they no longer wish to make them. They have after all done something similar by releasing the Legendary Edition in that it's not just a remaster but also they took out all the MP elements and and galactic readiness stuff so we can play the whole ME trilogy and DLC's completely offline pretty much so in tha tsense Bioware and EA no longer have to touch it anymore. It's moer that we would still need an option for transferring our saves from DAO and DA2 into Inquisition and Dreadwolf tha twould work in the long term. Unless Biowaer and EA are happy to maintain the servers the Keep is being kept on for ever and a day which I guess they won't be then it's likely at some point we will need an alternative. I personally feel the sooner one is put in place the better.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 4, 2022 17:20:54 GMT
really enjoy the Keep, so would love to see it's continued usage
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 4, 2022 17:36:42 GMT
really enjoy the Keep, so would love to see it's continued usage Yeah I'm not asying it's bad as i tdoes give us a way for if we'rew doing a complete series run a means in which t oimpor tour worldstates into Inquisition given we cant just stick our DA2 saves in But longer trem do they wqant to keep maintaining it and what happens when they stop. I experienced a period where the Keep was down and I had to put my playthrough on hold untli it was back up again so I could put my worldstate into Inquisition which was annoying as I wanted to just go in and play on from where I left off in DA2. S oI think long term there does need to be a offline version of the keep or an alternative way to carry our saves through each game as we play
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Post by Xunne13 on Jun 4, 2022 18:32:41 GMT
Whatever they do, I want the level of detail the keep has. So a little comic at the beginning of the game or a handful of reminder questions from a companion isn't enough for me. Online, offline, I don't mind, but there are too many player choices for anything less.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 18:42:17 GMT
Whatever they do, I want the level of detail the keep has. So a little comic at the beginning of the game or a handful of reminder questions from a companion isn't enough for me. Online, offline, I don't mind, but there are too many player choices for anything less. Exatly Genesis 1 is pretty bad because it left so much out what have consequences in ME 2. Genesis was also pretty useless because its only feature the barebones.
"Mass Effect: Genesis 2 allows players to make six choices from Mass Effect and six choices from Mass Effect 2. Mass Effect
Who became Shepard's love interest? Should the Rachni Queen on Noveria be freed or destroyed? What is the fate of Urdnot Wrex on Virmire? Who is sacrificed on Virmire, Ashley Williams or Kaidan Alenko? What happens to the Citadel Council during the Battle of the Citadel? Who does Shepard endorse to represent humanity on the Council, David Anderson or Donnel Udina?
Mass Effect 2
How many squadmates did Shepard recruit, all of them or only some? Did Shepard resolve or ignore the conflicts between some squadmates? Did Shepard stay true to friends from Mass Effect, or move on? Did Shepard immediately go through the Omega 4 Relay to rescue the crew, or improve the Normandy SR-2's weapons and armor first? Did Shepard start a new romance? Did Shepard choose to spare or destroy the Collector Base?"
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 18:56:20 GMT
Also 'did Sera get together with Dagna?' Isn´t this the default if Sera isn´t romanced and of course both of them are recruited? The only thing what is here has Dagna been recruited for the Inquisition or not?
I also miss more Awakening choices and i know its a bit pointless but has Hawke been declared Basalit-An or not?
Also why is there a choice if Hawke give Ketojan to the Qunari or not? He dies regardless also the Arvaarad and his fellow Qunari.
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Post by Felya87 on Jun 4, 2022 19:09:52 GMT
I like the Keep a lot. I'd prefer for it to be updated and kept, but I would love an offline version to use directly in game, something to be selected before starting the game, an option in the main menù, or at least a rapid access without needing to pick up pc or phone to get the world state I want to play.
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Post by Spectr61 on Jun 4, 2022 19:24:45 GMT
Keep the Keep.
Just update it...
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 4, 2022 19:57:53 GMT
I would say update the Keep and add some choices like flirting with Harding or not and most important are Dorian and The Iron Bull together or not. That´s hard work to trigger their relationship and pretty time consuming. Yeah, they need to add something for flirting with Harding, especially since it's referenced in Trespasser. Also 'did Sera get together with Dagna?' They could either add a 'were Iron Bull and Dorian fucking?' tile as well, or treat it as the default state if both of them are alive and neither was romance by the player. I think this is likely what they will do since PW was so invested in this romance. It is by far the easiest way to flag it going forward. However, it is hardly likely to be that important other than Dorian perhaps referencing it in dialogue with the new PC. The same is true of Sera and Dagna, which will be even less relevant unless either of them is to appear in the game. I think the flags were more important to the epilogue to Trespasser than anything else. Since they gave 3 screens devoted to the Dorian/Bull romance and only one to the Dorian/Inquisitor, I think that was sufficiently covered there. As for Harding flirting with the Inquisitor, I don't think they would see it as an official romance and unless either of them feature in the game, why bother updating the Keep? Would people really want to be denied the opportunity to romance Harding because they had an understated, chaste relationship in DAI? I would favour using the Keep because our major choices in each game have been recorded there. Those that weren't were obviously not considered relevant to the narrative going forward. I question some of the minor decisions that were included, such as whether or not we chose to save Crestwood and the Temple of Solassan, but perhaps the latter will have some bearing on the plot going forward. My main problem will be how they chose to interpret my choices. With DA2 I said that I didn't support Anders' action, because it showed an exploding Chantry and I thought it referred only to that decision, but on investigating the resulting dialogue it would seem that indicating I did not support Anders meant I didn't support any of his drive to free mages, which was not true in the case of the majority of my Hawkes. This explained why the dialogue I got, didn't seem chime with their character. When I changed the Keep to show I supported Anders, I got far more appropriate dialogue that reflected their sentiments about mage freedom. So I ignored the misleading picture and altered my other Hawkes accordingly. I would imagine the decisions from DAI are going to be more relevant to the plot, if at all, than those from earlier games but I would still prefer the Keep to just ticking a few boxes at the beginning of DAD.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 4, 2022 20:44:03 GMT
I think this is likely what they will do since PW was so invested in this romance. It is by far the easiest way to flag it going forward. However, it is hardly likely to be that important other than Dorian perhaps referencing it in dialogue with the new PC. Sorry i know this sounds strange but the Keep should honor if we get Dorian and Bull together or not because of we invested so much time in it. Get them together without mods or on consoles even without the banter bug it took ages. So yeah this is worthy of a tile. No but they want that event to be honored. Even a failed flirt. I am well aware that we only talking about 2-3 dialogues but its worth it. Also why should Tallis have one and not Harding? Those are ones you questioned? Ok.. But to be honest those can atleast be mentioned in some way or other but i wonder why saving Saemus, killing Ginnis, blackmailing Ser Thrask saving Ketojan are in the Keep.
But most important why on earth is there a tile for Danzig? No player i know of have ever let this guy alive. But who knows maybe Bioware is making for this one player outwhere a "cool" Danzig cameo?
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Post by Iddy on Jun 4, 2022 22:05:08 GMT
Whatever they do, I want the level of detail the keep has. So a little comic at the beginning of the game or a handful of reminder questions from a companion isn't enough for me. Online, offline, I don't mind, but there are too many player choices for anything less. Honestly, I'm shocked at the mere suggestion of replacing it with a little checklist box with no consideration to the story or your character. It is best to keep it, update it or replace it with something similar if necessary.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 5, 2022 8:19:37 GMT
Update. No need to reinvent the wheel.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 5, 2022 10:29:00 GMT
really enjoy the Keep, so would love to see it's continued usage Yeah I'm not asying it's bad as i tdoes give us a way for if we'rew doing a complete series run a means in which t oimpor tour worldstates into Inquisition given we cant just stick our DA2 saves in But longer trem do they wqant to keep maintaining it and what happens when they stop. I experienced a period where the Keep was down and I had to put my playthrough on hold untli it was back up again so I could put my worldstate into Inquisition which was annoying as I wanted to just go in and play on from where I left off in DA2. S oI think long term there does need to be a offline version of the keep or an alternative way to carry our saves through each game as we play
Yeah I see what you're getting at & a downloadable version would be a great boon, as would an offline version, as like you say, what happens when it gets switched off or when DA ends
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 5, 2022 13:01:59 GMT
Sorry i know this sounds strange but the Keep should honor if we get Dorian and Bull together or not because of we invested so much time in it. Get them together without mods or on consoles even without the banter bug it took ages. So yeah this is worthy of a tile. So they give a special tile simply because you managed to navigate the dodgy banter prompt? That was the problem really; the rather too random nature of the banter, together with the fact that you had to have them in the party together, which is odd because you would think they would get together regardless if they were attracted in that way. Now, to be honest, I wasn't keen on their romance. There was something about it that didn't sit right with me, particularly if Bull was still Hissrad. That smacked of manipulation on his part, when you consider where Dorian originated from and that Qarinus/Ventus had always been a strategic location that the Qun aimed to conquer first in any attack on Tevinter. Dorian seemed very naive about that, as evidenced by his reaction when Bull turns on you. (I've only ever seen this on You Tube since the only run where I sacrificed the Chargers I disliked my Inquisitor so much I couldn't finish it.) So if anything I ought to be in favour of a tile acknowledging whether or not they got together because I did my best to avoid it. I just think that it isn't important enough to make a tile for it and if they decide to reference by default, then so be it. The tiles are, after all, to reference the history of your PC, not to detail the relationships of every other person in your inner Circle. What about Sera and Dagna or Josephine and Blackwall? The latter would also seem dependent on banter or some such and whilst I have never encountered it, I know others have, so it is there.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jun 5, 2022 13:07:34 GMT
Update the Keep, imo. So far it's worked well for Inquisition, so I don't see why they can't continue to use it going forward 'course that also means updating the "story so far" narrated by Varric
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 5, 2022 13:20:17 GMT
No but they want that event to be honored. Even a failed flirt. I am well aware that we only talking about 2-3 dialogues but its worth it. Also why should Tallis have one and not Harding? I imagine the answer to this is that Tallis was a companion rather than a major NPC, although I agree it did seem rather a trivial detail to be included. I mean even if we were to encounter Tallis in the next game, is she really going to say "Oh you know, I once flirted with the Champion of Kirkwall"? Well, may be she would but it would lower her in my estimation if she did. What interest would it be to my new PC? Am I meant to be impressed? As for Harding, I recall flirting with her even though I was in a relationship. It seemed harmless enough, unless there is a more serious flirt you get if you are not romancing someone. I also flirted with Dorian as a female Lavellan, until the penny dropped after our meeting with his father. Even then, you can either gently chide him for leading you on or agree to carry on flirting as if nothing had happened, just with the knowledge that it is never going to lead to anything more. I also flirted with Averline in DA2 and I don't think that has a special tile. So I don't really consider flirting as something that warrants a special tile. In Harding's case, there isn't any other reference to her in the Keep because she wasn't a companion or an advisor and wasn't a full romance, so it would seem a bit strange to acknowledge a few flirts in the Keep. As with the Dorian/Bull romance, they did this sufficiently in Trespasser for those who are invested in it. Why would they acknowledge a "failed" flirt? If they did that for Harding, then why not for a female Lavellan with Dorian? What about all the other heart icons with Cassandra, Cullen, etc, that amount to flirting but did not lead to an actual romance? You have to draw a line somewhere.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 5, 2022 13:22:41 GMT
I like The Keep and just want them to keep it updated.
I am all for trying to export The Keep to an offline version that is baked into the character creator even if it means if the risk of bad import variables and mistakes that might not get fixed. For that could be a one time deal that they develop an interpreter that takes the online version and just uses that in the game, it might not be possible though. I don't see a save import like they did in the past happening again there were a lot of bugs and issues that way.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 5, 2022 13:28:09 GMT
So they give a special tile simply because you managed to navigate the dodgy banter prompt? That was the problem really; the rather too random nature of the banter, together with the fact that you had to have them in the party together, which is odd because you would think they would get together regardless if they were attracted in that way. Yes because of the player accomplishments in bringing those guys together there should be a tile. Also i prefer if this relationship is still special and if the player don´t want or didn´t get the both as a couple well there should be an option. I disagree (strongly i may add ) with all the already pointless tiles this one could have some effect in some of Dorian´s dialogues. Nothing more nothing less. With the existence of infamous Danzig tile you really have no good argument against it here. Why not? If it could be "important" like in their case what´s the big harm in having one extra tile for their relationship. Again why? If Sera isn´t romanced and also recruited by the Inquisitior she dates Dagna. For what do you need a tile? Maybe there should be a Dagna recruited or not tile because i have no idea if Sera romance Dagna even if she isn´t recruited. Unlike Sera & Dagna or Dorian & Bull this isn´t relevant anymore. So tell me why should Bioware mention this? Also unlike Dorian plus a small Bull cameo i don´t think that we will Blackwall or Josephine again. Maybe Josephine if Antiva is a place to visit in Dreadwolf.
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