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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 3, 2023 3:38:47 GMT
We may encounter them as NPCs, which is why they have featured in both comics and TN to give a sense of familiarity, but I doubt any will be actual companions. They could be... gameplay leak spoilers the characters that fill the 3rd companion slot, joining us on missions for their respective factions. The leaker said that there's 2 companion slots and then a third being the character the player is currently helping.
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Post by DragonEffect on Mar 3, 2023 4:12:41 GMT
Why would Varric die? It's more likely he'll return to the Inquisition's HQ with info on Solas and, in DA4, may or may not have an important role, such as serve as a liaison between the Inq. and the new heroes. Or as a spy, reporting on the heroes' activities to the Inquisition.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 3, 2023 5:38:38 GMT
Why would Varric die? It's more likely he'll return to the Inquisition's HQ with info on Solas and, in DA4, may or may not have an important role, such as serve as a liaison between the Inq. and the new heroes. Or as a spy, reporting on the heroes' activities to the Inquisition. My thoughts are this: The story begins with Charter soliciting Varric to go on the mission with Harding to find Solas. She states that Harding is good, but soft. Charter is afraid that Harding will hesitate with Solas in her sights. That's why Varric has to go. To see things through to the end.
With that being said, what if this is not the story of meeting companions, but rather how Harding gets hardened? If this is where she draws her motivation to see the mission through? What would motivate her? Varric's untimely death. With Varric dead, that also puts Harding as the lead agent tracking Solas. She would then be the DA:D protagonist's handler and supervisor, rather than Varric. Varric's death would not only be an emotional body-blow to Harding, but us, the player, as well. It would give DA:D a visceral hook right off the bat. If that's the case, then The Missing would fit very well as a prequel, in my opinion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2023 8:32:03 GMT
That again makes me wonder if this was something personal to The Talons and not an actual contracted job. You would think so. Apart from the fact that if they had been commissioned to do the job by an outside party, it seems unlikely they would be left with discretion over the outcome because how exactly does that person measure success, who exactly would be hiring them anyway? The previous contract had been successfully carried out by Lucanis, which sent a clear enough message to surviving Venatori to keep their heads down. If they were planning an actual coup within Tevinter, I think there would be enough Magisters in opposition to them that the Archon could risk using his official spy network, the Sicarri. Also, there is the group led by the Viper who have the Venatori in their sights and seem to be happy to do their own dirty work. There is also the Lucerni in opposition and well able to conduct their own assassinations. Last but not least, there is the Black Divine, whom we know from Dorian is quite happy openly to remove political enemies, so unless he is a secret member of the Venatori, which could make all the other groups wary of moving against them, there doesn't really seem to be need to involve the Crows. However, someone did use them against the Wigmaker, so I suppose they could have hired them a second time. What I find more puzzling is the presence of two senior Talons outside their own country when Antiva is under direct attack from the Antaam and getting involved in removing individuals who might at least be assumed to be opposed to the Qun. Even if it is a case of the Crows needing funds, each Talon should have an entire House of assassins of varying ranks to call upon to carry out the contract. So, it would seem it had to be something specific to involve the Talons personally that involved more than just acquiring more funds for their war chest.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2023 8:47:10 GMT
I have that feeling too. He's got that "retiring in one week" sense of doom. The story begins with Charter soliciting Varric to go on the mission with Harding to find Solas. She states that Harding is good, but soft. Charter is afraid that Harding will hesitate with Solas in her sights. That's why Varric has to go. To see things through to the end. With that being said, what if this is not the story of meeting companions, but rather how Harding gets hardened? If this is where she draws her motivation to see the mission through? What would motivate her? Varric's untimely death. With Varric dead, that also puts Harding as the lead agent tracking Solas. She would then be the DA:D protagonist's handler and supervisor, rather than Varric. Varric's death would not only be an emotional body-blow to Harding, but us, the player, as well. It would give DA:D a visceral hook right off the bat. Since in the original story line with the Exalted March DLC Varric ought to be long dead, this is a possibility. The main objection I have to this theory is why did they revamp his appearance in that case? To throw us off the scent? To be honest, with Varric being overhauled but Harding remaining pretty much the same, I do wonder if she is going to be the sacrificial lamb. Varric is now so popular with much of the fan base that they might fear killing him off so early would be counter productive. However, killing off Harding, who is a familiar, popular character but not as much as Varric, would give established players enough of an emotional investment and set up Varric as a much more ruthless, edgy character as well.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 3, 2023 8:55:09 GMT
the characters that fill the 3rd companion slot, joining us on missions for their respective factions. The leaker said that there's 2 companion slots and then a third being the character the player is currently helping. I agree that this could be a possibility along the lines of Morrigan in DAI or Valta in the Descent. If it turns out we are not able to control our companions, then their inclusion will not make much difference to the overall party as we would simply select the other companions to ensure they didn't duplicate the skills of the compulsory person but everyone would be pretty much doing their own thing when it comes to the actual fighting. Hopefully, though, it might be a case of beginning with them as the contact and then, having completed that specific mission, them introducing another person to us who would represent their organisation going forward.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 3, 2023 12:50:36 GMT
I have that feeling too. He's got that "retiring in one week" sense of doom. The story begins with Charter soliciting Varric to go on the mission with Harding to find Solas. She states that Harding is good, but soft. Charter is afraid that Harding will hesitate with Solas in her sights. That's why Varric has to go. To see things through to the end. With that being said, what if this is not the story of meeting companions, but rather how Harding gets hardened? If this is where she draws her motivation to see the mission through? What would motivate her? Varric's untimely death. With Varric dead, that also puts Harding as the lead agent tracking Solas. She would then be the DA:D protagonist's handler and supervisor, rather than Varric. Varric's death would not only be an emotional body-blow to Harding, but us, the player, as well. It would give DA:D a visceral hook right off the bat. Since in the original story line with the Exalted March DLC Varric ought to be long dead, this is a possibility. The main objection I have to this theory is why did they revamp his appearance in that case? To throw us off the scent? To be honest, with Varric being overhauled but Harding remaining pretty much the same, I do wonder if she is going to be the sacrificial lamb. Varric is now so popular with much of the fan base that they might fear killing him off so early would be counter productive. However, killing off Harding, who is a familiar, popular character but not as much as Varric, would give established players enough of an emotional investment and set up Varric as a much more ruthless, edgy character as well. Varric has already taken that journey in Inquisition. He certainly wasn't the same guy we met in DA2. He went through some stuff and, depending on player choices, might have even lost Hawke. He isn't going to take it again.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 4, 2023 2:29:18 GMT
I can't see how they can have Solas kill off any of our friends, particularly off screen like this comic is, and uphold any option about "redeem/save him from himself". Him killing a mutual friend, especially Varric who he actually got on with quite well, is a point of no return kind of move. It'd be very strange to me to have that happen before Dreadwolf even starts.
If its intended as player motivation, the player needs to see it. You can't assume they read ancillary material. And its not gonna have the same impact if a player just learns "We found Solas in the deep roads Varric and I; and he killed him." from Harding in some dialogue vs actually seeing it happen. This isn't Wynne, who was already a game removed from us by the time of Asunder. Varric is a two time recurring and recent coompanion, not to mention is involved in the Dreadwolf marketing.
It'd be stupid to kill him off off screen. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it shouldn't.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 4, 2023 2:39:54 GMT
I don't think it necessarily has to happen in the comics, or if it does, it can be recreated in the opening cinematic. The comics just have to lead up to it. It also doesn't necessarily have to be an intentional slaying. Varric could get caught in a blast meant for someone else, or caught in the crossfire between Solas and a third party. But, like many fine heroes before, Varric is due for a death; a good one that will piss off players and make them want to end Solas.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 4, 2023 2:50:12 GMT
I don't think it necessarily has to happen in the comics, or if it does, it can be recreated in the opening cinematic. The comics just have to lead up to it. It also doesn't necessarily have to be an intentional slaying. Varric could get caught in a blast meant for someone else, or caught in the crossfire between Solas and a third party. But, like many fine heroes before, Varric is due for a death; a good one that will piss off players and make them want to end Solas. I mean cliche as hell potentially but I can see Varric sacrificing himself for the new hero in an attempt to make the new hero care about the hunt for Solas, whether it is done by his hand or not. Of course this could work either for him or Harding.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 4, 2023 3:41:01 GMT
I think there is zero chance of Varric dying in this comic. Brian Bloom has done too much voice over reading for the Dreadwolf promo stuff to make me think he's not going to be in the game in some capacity. Varric dying in the early hours of the game, on the other hand, seems quite likely, given that's what they were planning to do with him all the way back in Exalted March before it got canned. I just hope they manage to do enough to get new players attached to him before they pull the trigger - I know several people who only played DAI and found the Fade choice and its aftermath equal parts baffling and annoying because they didn't know any of the characters involved.
(I mean, I would actually prefer that they let Varric retire, but it's hardly up to me.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2023 5:51:43 GMT
If they do kill off Varric, I just hope they give us a variety of options to react about it instead of just forcing us to feel a certain way.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 4, 2023 8:22:07 GMT
Varric has already taken that journey in Inquisition. He certainly wasn't the same guy we met in DA2. He went through some stuff and, depending on player choices, might have even lost Hawke. He isn't going to take it again. He didn't strike me as that different but then I never leave Hawke in the Fade as it made zero sense to me (actually leaving anyone made zero sense since in the time it took us to decide we could have been out of there). When we encounter Varric in Trespasser he seems the same guy he had always been, not even taking the responsibility of being Viscount seriously and leaving most of the tedious day to day running to Bran, and likely Hawke as well once they returned from Weisshaupt in the epilogue. Hence him feeling able to ditch his duties once again in the comic. From what I recall from Knight Errant, he wasn't that different when seen there either. Now it would seem they are setting up him and Harding as the ruthless (stop at any costs) versus the merciful (save Solas from himself) outlook. This isn't entirely out of character with the Varric we knew in DA2. Remember he thought supporting the illegal annulment by Meredith (protecting our way of life) preferential to stopping an injustice and defending innocent mages, like Bethany (letting dangerous people run amok), even though in the 2020 trailer he admits that Meredith was a tyrant (and had been from the beginning of Act 3). So, "protecting our way of life" even if it means sacrificing innocents (and Solas certainly isn't that) is very much in character for him. However, what could change if he saw Harding cut down might be his veneer of genial bonhomie. So, instead of having him forcing his "friendship" on us, he drops the facade and is just brutally frank and determined to destroy the betrayer. Mind you, that clearly wouldn't be at the very beginning, unless that recent cinematic is the lead into the game because he sounds like the familiar old Varric there, giving both sides of the argument whilst he remains sitting on the fence.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 4, 2023 12:23:31 GMT
Varric has already taken that journey in Inquisition. He certainly wasn't the same guy we met in DA2. He went through some stuff and, depending on player choices, might have even lost Hawke. He isn't going to take it again. He didn't strike me as that different but then I never leave Hawke in the Fade as it made zero sense to me (actually leaving anyone made zero sense since in the time it took us to decide we could have been out of there). It made no sense in practical terms, but I thought it was thematically fitting to leave Hawke in the Fade for two reasons: 1. Hawke is a tragic hero, so it seems natural that s/he wouldn't get a happy ending. 2. Both in DA2 and DAI, we have dialogue where Varric says that a good story is one that ends with the hero's death. And since Varric is the narrator of Hawke's life, it is fitting that his friend's fate is just like the ending to one of his books. Or at least, it makes for a cool reference.
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Post by Solas on Mar 4, 2023 13:27:38 GMT
in my post I did say that it's maybe setup for varric dying in DAD, not in the comics.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 4, 2023 15:35:35 GMT
It made no sense in practical terms, but I thought it was thematically fitting to leave Hawke in the Fade Then you are making the decision as a player outside of the world looking in, rather than the Herald on the ground. I was assuming they had read Varric's story of Hawke so knew the background. Also, done a bit of research on the Grey Wardens with people who knew them, like Leliana. There was absolutely no reason Hawke should feel responsible for Corypheus; that was clearly down to the Wardens who had failed to deal with the problem correctly down the years and then blackmailed Hawke's father into getting involved. Plus, if Hawke did feel responsible for Corypheus, they could do far more against him by staying alive than throwing their life away in the Fade. Stroud had been around for many years, so likely near their Calling anyway and even one of the other two possible Wardens wouldn't likely live beyond middle age. Also, any Warden was potentially still at risk from Corypheus even if they had resisted him thus far. Hawke still had plenty more to give to the world at large and, as it turned out, could eventually help in rebuilding Kirkwall. So Hawke lived. I would note that the only reason for keeping the Warden representative instead of Hawke was the idea of them rebuilding the Grey Wardens in then south but this was then negated when they instantly left for Weisshaupt. Mind you, I thought it logical to send the Wardens out of Orlais for their own safety but expressly told Leliana not to use what we knew against the Order. Yet in the epilogue they had everyone turn against the Wardens in the south if you took the sensible option. By contrast, if you keep the Wardens in the Inquisition, risking the fact that Corypheus was still a danger, nothing bad happens and everyone thinks they are great at the end, so I thought that whole business with the Wardens was rigged against logical thinking.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 4, 2023 15:45:18 GMT
It made no sense in practical terms, but I thought it was thematically fitting to leave Hawke in the Fade Then you are making the decision as a player outside of the world looking in, rather than the Herald on the ground. I was assuming they had read Varric's story of Hawke so knew the background. Also, done a bit of research on the Grey Wardens with people who knew them, like Leliana. There was absolutely no reason Hawke should feel responsible for Corypheus; that was clearly down to the Wardens who had failed to deal with the problem correctly down the years and then blackmailed Hawke's father into getting involved. Plus, if Hawke did feel responsible for Corypheus, they could do far more against him by staying alive than throwing their life away in the Fade. Stroud had been around for many years, so likely near their Calling anyway and even one of the other two possible Wardens wouldn't likely live beyond middle age. Also, any Warden was potentially still at risk from Corypheus even if they had resisted him thus far. Hawke still had plenty more to give to the world at large and, as it turned out, could eventually help in rebuilding Kirkwall. So Hawke lived. I would note that the only reason for keeping the Warden representative instead of Hawke was the idea of them rebuilding the Grey Wardens in then south but this was then negated when they instantly left for Weisshaupt. Mind you, I thought it logical to send the Wardens out of Orlais for their own safety but expressly told Leliana not to use what we knew against the Order. Yet in the epilogue they had everyone turn against the Wardens in the south if you took the sensible option. By contrast, if you keep the Wardens in the Inquisition, risking the fact that Corypheus was still a danger, nothing bad happens and everyone thinks they are great at the end, so I thought that whole business with the Wardens was rigged against logical thinking. That's the thing. I never thought the Inquisitor was literally making the decision regarding who lives and dies. I took it as a peculiar moment where the player is given the choice and the game translates that by having the Herald utter the character's name. Not to mention that Varric likely would be upset at the Inquisitor if s/he really was the person who sentenced his best friend to death. He already chewed out Cassandra just for the idea of putting Hawke at risk by bringing him/her to the Conclave.
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Post by DragonEffect on Mar 5, 2023 1:25:50 GMT
If an LI gets killed or seriously injured by Solas - or on Solas' orders -, it'll have a higher impact on the Player and their decision to stop him (rather than help him, as the Inquisitor might opt for) than Varric's death. Players who have never played DA before have no clue as to who Varric is. Therefore, they lack the emotional connection with him to care for the character's fate, which makes his death futile and a poor reason reason to influence the Player's decisions. Also, not everyone is a fan of Varric. Some people just don't mind him and would not care if he eventually died in DA4 (if he'll even be in the game).
Another good reason to influence the Player's decision regarding Solas is if a major event affects something or someone dear to them or with which they have a strong connection to. The best exmaple I can think of are the human HoF's parents in DA:Origins. It's hard not to care for Bryce and Eleanor Cousland. They are so fond of our PC that we believe we truly are their son/daughter. The dialog feels so personal and the family scenes are just so endearing. Bioware did a good job creating a family atmosphere in the Cousland household. Which is why it's hard to witness what happens next and even harder to leave them behind. It's safe to assume many Players played their PC as someone who mourned their death as they went on their mission as a Grey Warden. Such tragedy likely even fuelled many Players' desire for revenge on Howe and even (indirectly) on Loghain.
A powerful motivation like that gets the Player invested in the story. If Bioware does kill Varric, some people might just shrug and not understand how they're supposed to be swayed by their fate. Others might even secretly think 'good riddance'. If their LI dies, though, it's a whole different story.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 5, 2023 4:39:58 GMT
If an LI gets killed or seriously injured by Solas - or on Solas' orders -, it'll have a higher impact on the Player and their decision to stop him (rather than help him, as the Inquisitor might opt for) than Varric's death. Not all PCs are going to have a love interest, though. Let alone be invested in one near the beginning of the game when they're presumably going to want the player to get interested in stopping him.
I agree that it's a good idea to have the player character suffer some kind of loss because of Solas that sets them on their path, but I think it would be better if it was a friend or family member. I definitely feel the loss of Cousland's family and Tamlen when I play those origins to this day.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 5, 2023 8:18:40 GMT
It's safe to assume many Players played their PC as someone who mourned their death as they went on their mission as a Grey Warden. Such tragedy likely even fuelled many Players' desire for revenge on Howe and even (indirectly) on Loghain. I agree they did that really well and in addition to mourning my parents, my sister-in-lore and my nephew, I spent the entire game wondering what had become of my brother, Fergus. I also played it that it was this which decided me against making Alistair King but opted for a marriage with Anora myself. He was the senior surviving Warden, so should have assumed responsibility for continuing our mission, yet spent the entire aftermath moping about Duncan, when I had lost my entire family but still kept it together and stepped up to the role of leadership. He never once asked how I was feeling or acknowledged my concern about Fergus. Then at the final gathering, there was Fergus. I can honestly say I felt genuine surprise (that the writers had remembered) and joy at seeing him. Contrast that with our family in DA2 where we barely got to know our sibling before they killed them off. It should have been an emotional moment but left me rather flat. I agree with you that this would be the effect of killing off Varric at the beginning of DAD when it comes to new players. It would be a case of being told they should feel something rather than it being a genuine reaction. I actually think that if they do end up killing him off, it would be much later in the story. They were definitely hinting in the 2020 BtS video that there would be some major decision in game that could result in the death of someone significant to the player, so it might well be one of these either/or situations like we have experienced in previous games, like the Virmire survivor in Mass Effect or Hawke/Warden character in DAI. The ME decision was always more difficult because the choice was between two companions who had been with your throughout the game, one of whom could even be your LI.
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Mar 6, 2023 19:41:47 GMT
If Solas ends up killing Varric, I'm more than happy to finally join the #FryTheEgg-movement.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 7, 2023 0:47:35 GMT
If Solas ends up killing Varric, I'm more than happy to finally join the #FryTheEgg-movement. I prefer my Egg scrambled thank you very much.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 13, 2023 3:29:40 GMT
okay so who wants to find the fourth cover
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 13, 2023 10:38:39 GMT
okay so who wants to find the fourth cover I think they are deliberately keeping that one under wraps until nearer to release. Likely it will be very revealing, of how they have envisaged Minrathous if nothing else.
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necrowaif
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Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 14, 2023 22:40:32 GMT
Hey, this is just a random thought that popped in my head regarding Issue #2.
OK, so Varric and Harding find the petrified statue of Lady Crysanthus. She was apparently turned to stone a while ago, long enough for someone to drape a sheet over her and for the room to collect a fair bit of dust. She's right in front of a wall of evidence that points Varric and Harding to an artifact sought by the Venatori, the Crucious Stone.
Suddenly, an odd-looking mage - who, I'll note, is apparently a force mage just like Solas - bursts into the room claiming to be her husband and attacks Varric and company. During that fight, he also manages to light on fire the wall of evidence.
Does that strike anyone else as a bit ... odd? And considering they were led to the mansion by an invitation Solas apparently left behind in his Deep Roads lair ... well, it makes me wonder if this is all a set-up.
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