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Post by dayze on Dec 7, 2022 5:17:49 GMT
What if it's the old gods dreaming that creates the fade?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 10:14:28 GMT
The same correspondence is present in this mural. The Evanuris are color-coded and Elgar'nan is gold. Any ideas about this? I notice in the bottom picture that for every gold/silver disc there is a corresponding dark one. Now this was painted to represent ancient times, I think, so before any of the Old Gods were slain. I wonder if the theory is correct that the Old Gods aided in creating the Veil and sealing the Black City, with each one corresponding for an Evanuris to counter their power, so it is not possible for them to break out until all the Old Gods are dead. I go back and forth on whether the Old Gods are an aspect of the Evanuris/Creators because Solas maintained he banished the latter forever. Shutting an aspect of them in the Deep Roads was only a temporary banishment at best and able to be by-passed without destroying the Veil entirely. I'm more inclined now to feel that the Old Gods equal the Forgotten Ones. There are seven of them to counter the seven Evanuris. They were said to be allies of Fen'Harel and he persuaded them to return to the Abyss in order to defeat the Creators. Maybe they did think this was only temporary and he did trick them into becoming imprisoned too. The Abyss can equal the Void but also the lower levels of the Deep Road. Since the ancient elves believed the Forgotten Ones lived in the Void and Andruil was able to hunt them there, that points to either the lower Deep Roads or some part of the Fade, the uttermost depths, where it is dangerous for ordinary People to venture. This could account for why Andruil needed the Armour of the Void to allow her to enter. It is also known as the Banal'han, place of nothing and origin of the Blight. The Blight is also called the Darkness. If the Void is an alternative Fade, then Falon'Din was also said to be able to walk there without fear but that could equally apply to the darkest depths of the Deep Roads. The latest trailer shows the Black City changing on the creation of the Veil. It seems as though part of its purpose was to contain the corruption away from the rest of creation. This would fit with Solas saying that he needed to stop the Evanuris from destroying the whole world. Were those imprisoned/maintaining the prison already tainted, or did the corruption spread to them, possible when the seal was broken by Corypheus? Was the Golden City only a reflection of another physical place where the true origins of the Blight lay? It retained an illusion of gold until its secret was discovered. Who urged Corypheus and Co to break into the city and why? If it was Dumat, had he worked out this was the only way to free himself? Did he want to release the Blight or was he not aware of its presence in the city? Maybe he promised Corypheus a golden city because he genuinely believed that is what he would find. Why did all the Old Gods fall silent after the Black City was discovered? Dumat is the God of Silence, so I suppose that would not be unusual but did he really have the power to silence the other gods? However, if it was the act of breaking in that caused the Old Gods to become corrupted, then they would be driven to madness by it and no longer answer except by their song. That song that calls to corrupted creatures would suggest the Old God/Arch-demon wanted to be found.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 10:33:06 GMT
So judging from this trailer, I'd say I'm correct in thinking June and Sylaise are evil, with the caveat that the trailer drops the big, "depending upon which story you believe." I'd enjoy it if Solas is lying to an extent (about all of them rather than some,) and had some hand in a lot of the dark deeds that took place. Either you believe Solas and all the gods, bar his precious Mythal, were corrupted and evil, or you allow for the fact that they may well all have been absolute monarchs but some may have had redeeming qualities. We know least about June. The Temple of Mythal codex suggested that the Dalish myths may be lacking, which is hardly a surprise, but the ancient codex concerning Sylaise also says that June was renowned for his craft, so the Dalish got that bit right. The word craft does have plenty of scope for its meaning. Some myths also say that he "created himself", which would fit with a spirit creating a body for itself. As we have discussed on the Smooples thread, it seems likely that June was either a Spirit of Creation, who is driven by a constant desire to make things, or he may even have not been an elf at all but a magically gifted dwarf, who could equally have changed his shape to look like the other gods, hence "creating himself". I've pointed out that if there is any connection between him and Urthemiel, the Architect of Beauty, that would account for Flemeth/Mythal's interest in saving him, since he may have been one of those dwarves she originally liberated from the Titans. Still, I think the more probably explanation is that he was a spirit. As with all spirits that have a particular sphere of interest, it may be that he was driven to create things in an obsessive way, even at the expense of those around him. Also, not all creations have to be positive. Could he have created the ultimate weapon that the other Evanuris coveted and Solas feared they would use? Could he have been responsible for creating the Blight? Or the idol, even though Solas subsequently claimed it? Nevertheless, as a Spirit of Creation, he would likely be opposed to destruction of the world, unless he felt something better could be created as a result. To my mind, he is the one "god" who is probably closest to how the Dalish remember him but more neutral in outlook rather than benign. He didn't create things specifically to help them but just because he liked creating things, that the elves found a use for. There was never a morality guiding his creative process, so it was always simply a case of "would it be possible to create this", not "should I create this?" So, it might have been easy for the other gods to manipulate him into creating something dangerous, maybe even the weapon that killed Mythal. What was the favour he did for Sylaise?
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Post by n7double07 on Dec 7, 2022 12:22:57 GMT
So judging from this trailer, I'd say I'm correct in thinking June and Sylaise are evil, with the caveat that the trailer drops the big, "depending upon which story you believe." I'd enjoy it if Solas is lying to an extent (about all of them rather than some,) and had some hand in a lot of the dark deeds that took place. Either you believe Solas and all the gods, bar his precious Mythal, were corrupted and evil, or you allow for the fact that they may well all have been absolute monarchs but some may have had redeeming qualities. We know least about June. The Temple of Mythal codex suggested that the Dalish myths may be lacking, which is hardly a surprise, but the ancient codex concerning Sylaise also says that June was renowned for his craft, so the Dalish got that bit right. The word craft does have plenty of scope for its meaning. Some myths also say that he "created himself", which would fit with a spirit creating a body for itself. As we have discussed on the Smooples thread, it seems likely that June was either a Spirit of Creation, who is driven by a constant desire to make things, or he may even have not been an elf at all but a magically gifted dwarf, who could equally have changed his shape to look like the other gods, hence "creating himself". I've pointed out that if there is any connection between him and Urthemiel, the Architect of Beauty, that would account for Flemeth/Mythal's interest in saving him, since he may have been one of those dwarves she originally liberated from the Titans. Still, I think the more probably explanation is that he was a spirit. As with all spirits that have a particular sphere of interest, it may be that he was driven to create things in an obsessive way, even at the expense of those around him. Also, not all creations have to be positive. Could he have created the ultimate weapon that the other Evanuris coveted and Solas feared they would use? Could he have been responsible for creating the Blight? Or the idol, even though Solas subsequently claimed it? Nevertheless, as a Spirit of Creation, he would likely be opposed to destruction of the world, unless he felt something better could be created as a result. To my mind, he is the one "god" who is probably closest to how the Dalish remember him but more neutral in outlook rather than benign. He didn't create things specifically to help them but just because he liked creating things, that the elves found a use for. There was never a morality guiding his creative process, so it was always simply a case of "would it be possible to create this", not "should I create this?" So, it might have been easy for the other gods to manipulate him into creating something dangerous, maybe even the weapon that killed Mythal. What was the favour he did for Sylaise? I'm sure they had some redeeming qualities; they were just people, after all. But it seems as if the bad far outweighed the good -- likely an effect that took place over time as well. They started out as respected elders according to Solas, initially somewhat benevolent, maybe. As their magical prowess increased, they slowly (or not so slowly) descended into megalomania.
I like your ideas about June. I think he's just an elf, though. He might have started out as a spirit of creation.I highly doubt he's a Dwarf; the chances of a Dwarf becoming a part of the Evanuris seem vanishingly small.
I assumed that he was responsible for making weapons and torture devices. I hope he created plot-central items, too.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2022 13:19:40 GMT
I assumed that he was responsible for making weapons and torture devices. I hope he created plot-central items, too. I think he may have been the one to come up with the idea of prismatic weapons. He may also be the one who came up with the magic behind that bow we see in the 2020 trailer. He could also be the one who first created or suggested a use for the foci/orbs. Just because the Solas claimed the orb he gave to Corypheus doesn't mean he necessarily made it. Then there is that peculiar artifact, the Anvil of the Void, that Caradin used. Did he actually come up with the idea for that or did he just use knowledge he discovered in the Deep Roads? There were golems in the Ancient Thaig, so their first creation must pre-date Caradin. As we know from talking with Caradin, whilst initially he used volunteers, the process still worked with forced conscripts. That was a pretty horrific process. In Caradin's case the dwarves were desperate for something to help with the Blight, but even he eventually realised how immoral it was. So, could June have originally come up with the idea? Then he used the dwarves "liberated" by Mythal as his subjects. Also, what about the sarcophagus that Danarius used on Fenris? Again, I don't think he came up with the idea but either constructed it from ancient writings or merely discovered the artifact in an old ruin. I seem to recall the process involved using the sword of an arcane warrior (DAO style rather than DAI) but definitely lyrium that created tattoos that looked suspiciously elvish. So, plenty of items that we have encountered that might have their origins with June and are decidedly dodgy when it comes to the morality of their creation. However, compared with the mad professor, Ghilan'nain, pretty much a normal day at the office.
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