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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 1, 2023 8:30:02 GMT
So the best way to smooth over timeline hiccups is to assume that IF it went to the Black Emporium, it did so after Knight Errant but before Trespasser's codex entry. Not sure what that does for Absolution, though, so it may be better to assume that she wasn't moved to the Emporium and that the reference is no longer valid, or the Emporium was displaying a fake. I think it had to be a fake because of what happens in Tevinter Nights. The statue from which the idol was taken sounds a lot like the lump of rock in Absolution, because the Carta dwarf says he was relieved it no longer looked like a person. So, it was correct that the statue was moved out of the Gallows but it was simply placed in some less public place, which would fit with the setting in Absolution.
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Post by fairdragon on Jan 10, 2023 12:08:10 GMT
I was actually excited to hear Meredith's voice. I was like omg she's gonna use the circulum to make a body and then maybe the crimson knight trying to annul Tevinter will be a boss fight Then i thought of the teaser mural and was like wow thats what it meant. Then i realised Corypheus was also on the mural and... not so excited about the idea of him coming back. If so then hopefully we only meet him in the fade - fading and defeated, maybe we finish him off, maybe we get to have the conversation that the Inquisitor never got to have with him and ask him questions about ancient Tevinter and the old gods. Only writer pets get to return more than once and Corypheus is nobody's favorite. That isn't what i read. I musst see if i can find it again. One dev. talk about corypheus and his background. The person said how great this character is. I don't think they don't like Corypheus. I think they see much potential in him.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 11, 2023 8:39:36 GMT
One dev. talk about corypheus and his background. The person said how great this character is. I don't think they don't like Corypheus. I think they see much potential in him. The problem with Corypheus was that they never really developed him as a character but just dropped some snippets about his past life that made me want to know more. The testimony of his slave in the Fade was one of these since their narrative as to his motivation for going to the Golden City seemed to differ from everything we had previously been told, including the state of the Old God religion before the 1st Blight. Even the Chantry say it only started to wane because of the attack by Dumat and the silence of the other gods, yet the slave's recollection would seem to contradict this. Also, the narrative in Jaws of Hakkon about the priesthood of Razikale also had me wondering about where it fitted in the timeline of the 1st Blight (before, during or after). Something that both Meredith and Corypheus had in common was them placing personal information that gave more insight into their character on only one path and that being one that on the whole people were less likely to choose. It always seemed odd to me that Meredith only tells you about her sister if you support her, when that seemed something that would have been a good argument by her in order to persuade you to her point of view. Then we only get the memories of Corypheus on the Templar path. This also gave a different perspective to the ToM, because on the Templar path it was clear that accessing the Well of Sorrows was always his intent, whereas on the mage path this is something we only discover on getting there. I think Corypheus would have worked better as the main antagonist if they had dispensed with the two different paths and instead constructed one comprehensive narrative that was open to all with the Temple of Dumat always featuring his memories and discovering Erasthenes, Calpernia always intended to be the vessel and perhaps a second confrontation with him at some point where we could investigate further about what happened with the Black City. If they brought him back in the future to allow this and perhaps even get some insight into the source of the Blight from him, then I would be okay with that. However, if he returned only to rant further and then attack us, then I'd rather they left him as we did.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Jan 11, 2023 19:43:40 GMT
Why Meredith being "alive" would mean that Corypheus would be alive? To my understanding Inquisitor killed him by sending him to the fade shortly after killing his dragon. As it's supposedly stated that killing his dragon would at least temporarily negate his ability to resurrect himself in body of grey warden and possibly other tained creature it's quite unlikely that he is alive. Possibly as fade counts as sort of "another dimension" it's possible in it Corypheus would have no one with taint to posses and simply would die even with his ability on (but that's speculation on my part). Add to that he already got away once and was brought back in previous game and in Inquistion we sought how to finally put him down, so chances they will bring him back are even lower as they would be microwaving the same meal (villain) for the second time (ie appearances in three different game where we had to deal with him).
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 12, 2023 8:50:55 GMT
Why Meredith being "alive" would mean that Corypheus would be alive? This speculation was caused by the fact that both appear in the 2020 trailer. Naturally it was assumed at the time that Solas was depicting characters in his mural that had played a part in events that led to the present but were no longer part of the story. However, if Meredith (who was always assumed definitely dead at the end of DA2) could be still existing in some form then why not Corypheus as well? To my understanding Inquisitor killed him by sending him to the fade shortly after killing his dragon. That whole action always seemed a bit odd considering I thought the whole idea of killing the dragon was to allow us to kill him permanently in the Waking World, not send him to the Fade where his death was somewhat ambiguous. In fact, I originally thought we had killed him by opening up a portal to the Fade inside of him (which I assumed was pretty lethal). Then I read in WoT2 that Inquisition mages had been scouring the Fade for traces of him, so apparently he wasn't destroyed on the spot and everyone (except the player) was aware of that fact. WoT2 only assumed his destruction because he couldn't be located and that he had entered the Fade in a state of doubt which apparently would make him vulnerable to the denizens there. However, given the shifting nature of the Fade, the fact one group of mages couldn't locate him was hardly conclusive that Corypheus had ceased to exist. So, it would seem they did leave themselves a loophole should they wish to bring him back. If they do bring back either of these former antagonists in game, one wonders what relevance they have to Solas, since he chose to illustrate them. Personally, I think it highly unlikely Meredith will return in game but will be saved for the Netflix series. As for Corypheus, he seems an unnecessary complication to the narrative when we have the much more formidable Dread Wolf to deal with. However, if our new hero ends up entering the Fade to confront the Dread Wolf in its domain, I suppose it is possible we may encounter Corypheus (or a spirit facsimile of him) there.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Jan 12, 2023 11:05:13 GMT
Why Meredith being "alive" would mean that Corypheus would be alive? This speculation was caused by the fact that both appear in the 2020 trailer. Naturally it was assumed at the time that Solas was depicting characters in his mural that had played a part in events that led to the present but were no longer part of the story. However, if Meredith (who was always assumed definitely dead at the end of DA2) could be still existing in some form then why not Corypheus as well? To my understanding Inquisitor killed him by sending him to the fade shortly after killing his dragon. That whole action always seemed a bit odd considering I thought the whole idea of killing the dragon was to allow us to kill him permanently in the Waking World, not send him to the Fade where his death was somewhat ambiguous. In fact, I originally thought we had killed him by opening up a portal to the Fade inside of him (which I assumed was pretty lethal). Then I read in WoT2 that Inquisition mages had been scouring the Fade for traces of him, so apparently he wasn't destroyed on the spot and everyone (except the player) was aware of that fact. WoT2 only assumed his destruction because he couldn't be located and that he had entered the Fade in a state of doubt which apparently would make him vulnerable to the denizens there. However, given the shifting nature of the Fade, the fact one group of mages couldn't locate him was hardly conclusive that Corypheus had ceased to exist. So, it would seem they did leave themselves a loophole should they wish to bring him back. If they do bring back either of these former antagonists in game, one wonders what relevance they have to Solas, since he chose to illustrate them. Personally, I think it highly unlikely Meredith will return in game but will be saved for the Netflix series. As for Corypheus, he seems an unnecessary complication to the narrative when we have the much more formidable Dread Wolf to deal with. However, if our new hero ends up entering the Fade to confront the Dread Wolf in its domain, I suppose it is possible we may encounter Corypheus (or a spirit facsimile of him) there. That's massive leap in logic to make based on just that depiction of him in the cinematic trailer that he would be still alive. Varric was narrating his prior history and the villains he faced in the past, i.e, Meredith and Corypheus (villains of each respective game in which Varric was a companion). Meredith was not brought back before, and even assuming it's her, not a corrupted spirit or something else that resembles her. Corypheus, as explained, came back from death once, and a major point of the Inquisition was to find out how to finally put him down, and we found the way to negate his type of immortality. Essentially they would be presenting the same villain that was already killed in 2 different games, in one which we devoted effort into finally killing the guy. Another issue is that many people are already not fond of how they keep resurrecting characters that were killed in a world that being resurrected is pretty much considered impossibility (even in Absolution some ancient MacGuffin is required to supposedly resurrect someone) and initially was restricted (and unknown to the general population) to top tiers beings like archdemons. I didn't really consider it odd, but rather a more lethal and ironic method of finishing off the enemy. I mean if process would not be established with pretty much certainty to be lethal and Inquisitor merely send him to the fade giving him what he wanted, it would be god-tier stupidity on Inquisitor part to not kill enemy such as Corypheus and poor writing to force once again (looking at Hawke) protagonist to acts of incredible stupidity in order to move plot in desired direction. Anyway, entry for Corypheus in WoT vol 2 if anything reaffirms even further that Corypheus is dead as supposedly armies of mages were searching for him in the fade just to make sure and no traces of him were found, with even conclusion being that he is dead. I see fact that mages were searching for him less as not him being destroyed on the spot (albeit text seem to state that Inquisitor send him a trip to fade so he can travel in it, that said it may be just written from perspective of chantry mythology claiming that souls after death travel through the fade) and more like making sure he didn't evade death somehow once again with them corroborating that he is dead. If Inquisitor merely sent him to the fade without process being lethal then it's utterly absurd and brain dead action as instead just killing him to put him down for good for sure (at least according to info Inquisitor had) he simply send him to have vacation in the fade to potentially recover or worse attain "godhood". I doubt they would go for such poor piece of writing (albeit given what we were forced into in dragon age 2 not quite impossible sadly) so they can microwave once again the same villain, especially as some minor villain/character (as most likely as Main Villain will be Solas). Even if they wanted to explain events in the black city they have other means to do that as there are potentially few other darkswpan old god priests that went to the black city to use (albeit Architect also has own set of issues with him being alive). That said, they may wish to avoid explaining what exactly happened in the black city so as to keep the existence of the Maker ambiguous.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 12, 2023 11:25:31 GMT
Honestly this is kind of one of the things that I find a bit confusing on this whole subject. Like Meredith is most certainly *not* alive. That is the whole poitn of finding the Circulum in the first place is that she is dead, or is in crystal, and not hereself and needs the Circulum to resurrect her. She is quite dead and is just a disembodied voice.
Which then based on what we know of Dragon Age and its typical ambiguity of such things this leaves two options. 1. It is her and she is encased in the Red Lyrium statue needing the Circulum to get out or B. much like the debate with Justinia and then the spirit of Miriam's brother, she could just be a fade spirit which has taken on her attributes and that is what will come over if the Circulum is used.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Jan 12, 2023 11:34:21 GMT
Honestly this is kind of one of the things that I find a bit confusing on this whole subject. Like Meredith is most certainly *not* alive. That is the whole poitn of finding the Circulum in the first place is that she is dead, or is in crystal, and not hereself and needs the Circulum to resurrect her. She is quite dead and is just a disembodied voice. Which then based on what we know of Dragon Age and its typical ambiguity of such things this leaves two options. 1. It is her and she is encased in the Red Lyrium statue needing the Circulum to get out or B. much like the debate with Justinia and then the spirit of Miriam's brother, she could just be a fade spirit which has taken on her attributes and that is what will come over if the Circulum is used. Doesn't Circulum require body to be resurrected anyway? Her body kind of doesn't exist anymore, unless we count that "statue" her body became as her body but it would require to be somehow restored to her previous form. It's possible that her mind/soul is somehow trapped in that Red Lyrium sort of like that elven soul that teaches you arcane warrior specialization.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 12, 2023 16:49:13 GMT
I doubt they would go for such poor piece of writing (albeit given what we were forced into in dragon age 2 not quite impossible sadly) so they can microwave once again the same villain, especially as some minor villain/character (as most likely as Main Villain will be Solas). I agree with you that bringing either villain back again is ridiculous but, as I point out, since apparently it is meant to be possible for Meredith, whom I considered absolutely dead at the end of DA2, then why not Corypheus (based on the logic of others that both featured in the trailer for DA4 and this might now hint at something more than just past antagonists). I didn't really consider it odd, but rather a more lethal and ironic method of finishing off the enemy. I mean if process would not be established with pretty much certainty to be lethal and Inquisitor merely send him to the fade giving him what he wanted, it would be god-tier stupidity on Inquisitor part to not kill enemy such as Corypheus and poor writing to force once again (looking at Hawke) protagonist to acts of incredible stupidity in order to move plot in desired direction. If, as appeared at the time, we actually opened a rift inside of Corypheus, then I agree it would be more lethal than simply killing him in the Waking World. However, WoT2 did introduce that element of doubt and I agree it was stupid of the Inquisitor to simply send him into the Fade and assume this would be lethal. After all, we had actually spent time there in the game andlived to tell the tale. That is why I considered our action in sending him there rather odd considering that a) it is where he had been trying to get to with his ritual and b] it is clearly survivable, not just based on our own experience but also the fact that we had people checking to see he had died after the event. Doesn't Circulum require body to be resurrected anyway? That is what was implied in the story, since a spirit had been used to preserve the body of Miriam's brother until the circulum could be used. However, I suppose it could be argued that the spirit could be recalled to the body in statue form, which could then be animated, rather as Meredith animated the statues in the Gallows. Although she did that with the power of red lyrium, so if she is already speaking through the lump of red lyrium, why couldn't she just revive herself? To be honest, I think this another of those plots (like the time travel in DAI) where it is better not to think too hard on the details and just accept "it's magic, go with it" as we say to Dorian in the Chantry when his explanation of what Alexius is up to sounds too far fetched to be believable.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 12, 2023 16:58:12 GMT
She is quite dead and is just a disembodied voice. Which does seem somewhat odd that it is thought the circulum can revive her if there is no body that she is attached to. If she is still trapped inside of the red lyrium and that is effectively now her body, then I suppose that would explain it. However, as I point out above, if that is the case, why does she need the circulum when the red lyrium previously gave her the power to animate statues? If her spirit is external to the lump of red lyrium, what is holding it there and how is it going to revive without her actual body?
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Post by thecommandershepard on Jan 12, 2023 18:59:59 GMT
I doubt they would go for such poor piece of writing (albeit given what we were forced into in dragon age 2 not quite impossible sadly) so they can microwave once again the same villain, especially as some minor villain/character (as most likely as Main Villain will be Solas). I agree with you that bringing either villain back again is ridiculous but, as I point out, since apparently it is meant to be possible for Meredith, whom I considered absolutely dead at the end of DA2, then why not Corypheus (based on the logic of others that both featured in the trailer for DA4 and this might now hint at something more than just past antagonists). I didn't really consider it odd, but rather a more lethal and ironic method of finishing off the enemy. I mean if process would not be established with pretty much certainty to be lethal and Inquisitor merely send him to the fade giving him what he wanted, it would be god-tier stupidity on Inquisitor part to not kill enemy such as Corypheus and poor writing to force once again (looking at Hawke) protagonist to acts of incredible stupidity in order to move plot in desired direction. If, as appeared at the time, we actually opened a rift inside of Corypheus, then I agree it would be more lethal than simply killing him in the Waking World. However, WoT2 did introduce that element of doubt and I agree it was stupid of the Inquisitor to simply send him into the Fade and assume this would be lethal. After all, we had actually spent time there in the game andlived to tell the tale. That is why I considered our action in sending him there rather odd considering that a) it is where he had been trying to get to with his ritual and b] it is clearly survivable, not just based on our own experience but also the fact that we had people checking to see he had died after the event. Doesn't Circulum require body to be resurrected anyway? That is what was implied in the story, since a spirit had been used to preserve the body of Miriam's brother until the circulum could be used. However, I suppose it could be argued that the spirit could be recalled to the body in statue form, which could then be animated, rather as Meredith animated the statues in the Gallows. Although she did that with the power of red lyrium, so if she is already speaking through the lump of red lyrium, why couldn't she just revive herself? To be honest, I think this another of those plots (like the time travel in DAI) where it is better not to think too hard on the details and just accept "it's magic, go with it" as we say to Dorian in the Chantry when his explanation of what Alexius is up to sounds too far fetched to be believable. Bringing Meredith back is by far the less ridiculous of the two options given, as I've explained: 1)Meredith appeared as villain/character only one time in the series, unlike Corypheus which as I've explained was already brought back from dead once and we spend time to finally put him down and we were given way to put him down. So from a writing perspective, this would be a poor choice based on this alone. 2) So far in the series, she is the only person to die via red lyrium, turning her into a statue. This haven't happened to even red templars in Inquisition that were full blown consuming red lyrium so pretty much no one in universe could and it seems did see it coming. Corypheus's ability to come back to life was taken from him, and his ability to resurrect was already known to the people that were killing him. Basically, as noted, this requires the inquisitor to have an IQ of 50 if his finisher with the anchor was not going to kill him outright but instead just send him to the fade alive, so the action of doing so without pretty much clear-cut killing him goes beyond plausible deniability. So it would be inconsistent with portrayal of Inquisitor (you can't really play Inquisitor as that stupid) that he would realistically make that decision and in consequence also terrible writing. Now, is it possible for Corypheus to return? Yes, it's fiction so pretty much you could write any absurd and/or things that contradict established lore. You can suddenly establish out of nowhere that eating cheese grants immortality, despite such a major aspect of the world not being established in lore before and the rising question of why no one really ate that cheese to gain that immortality. However, this is extremely unlikely to happen, as it would be really poor writing, and we aren't dealing with some sort of parody franchise to mock retcons, character resurrections in fiction, etc. where writing absurdity could pass. It's most likely Inquisitor using anchor go to the fade physically (I mean as I've noted otherwise it would end crushing plausible deniability) was distinct from what he did to Corypheus and it supposed to be mortal. As I've noted, it's most likely due to dealing with an opponent who has a very unusual set of abilities and has cheated death on multiple occasions; searching through the fade was done out of precaution just in case he had something else up his sleeve, ultimately leading to an army of mages confirming that he is gone as no trace of him was found in the fade. I mean beside there being form of afterlife and us seeing him there it would be impossible to confirm he (or anyone) is dead beyond naturally his absence after we killed him while turning off his resurrection ability. So we are pretty much with him almost as close to certainty as currently we can only be with that someone died or that they're gone for good. Yeah, either Rezaren didn't know what he was doing or you actually require your own body to be resurrected. I think it's further indicated when the supposed soul of Neb (or just a spirit imitating him) seemingly destroyed his body as a form of rejection of the resurrection. I'm not sure what good transferring, say, Meredith's soul into that disfigured and scrawny statue would do her unless it could somehow heal her body or transform it further into a more usable form. I could at least understand transferring to the behemoths she used in her final fight, as those were heavy and large statues. She didn't even survive the process of being turned into that statue (at least not without somehow being trapped in a chunk of red lyrium), so I doubt her prospects would be good even if she transferred her soul into it. I really hope they will explain it well, or at least that Meredith will consider utilizing this artifact for a different purpose than her resurrection.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 12, 2023 19:40:01 GMT
You both raise good points about the need of the body. But if she is actually a spirit imitating her it does raise another possibility. Basically I took the ritual in Absolution as opening a portal to the Fade. If something is imitating her then that something may want to come through.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 13, 2023 8:57:26 GMT
As I've noted, it's most likely due to dealing with an opponent who has a very unusual set of abilities and has cheated death on multiple occasions; searching through the fade was done out of precaution just in case he had something else up his sleeve, ultimately leading to an army of mages confirming that he is gone as no trace of him was found in the fade. I mean beside there being form of afterlife and us seeing him there it would be impossible to confirm he (or anyone) is dead beyond naturally his absence after we killed him while turning off his resurrection ability. So we are pretty much with him almost as close to certainty as currently we can only be with that someone died or that they're gone for good. Now this was one of the anomalies of the plot in DAI that I was never entirely happy with; the linking of his immortality to his dragon. This immediately raised the question with me as to when he divided his soul with the creature. After all, he revived by exactly the same process when Hawke "killed" him. So, does that mean he had already acquired his dragon before the Wardens imprisoned him? If so, what happened to the dragon during the ensuing 1000+ years? Presumably it went into hibernation but there was no suggestion of any dragon associated with him in Legacy and I simply assumed it was some ability associated with the fact he was a blighted creature with a soul, just as the Arch-demon is. Of course, we also needed to understand how he could jump to a Grey Warden and replace them, rather than both die as was the case with an Arch-demon but at least there was a precedent of a powerful, intelligent, blighted soul being able to do this. Now Solas also says that he never anticipated a human Magister would have discovered the secret of "effective immortality", yet he also maintains that he knew he couldn't kill the Evanuris permanently because of this ability, which is why he opted for imprisonment instead. So, if the dragon was necessary for Corypheus' effective immortality, then it would seem it was likely the same for the Evanuris. Hence the belief that the Old Gods might be the split soul "other" of the Evanuris and that the reason Mythal did not simply survive by a similar means after her "death" is that the other Evanuris did something to her dragon. So, she was forced to return to the Fade and recover her strength there before seeking a host body she could co-exist in. This being the case, it is conceivably possible that Corypheus could do the same, so the reason the mages couldn't find any trace of him is that his blighted body had been destroyed but his spirit/soul was undetectable to them. Of course, Solas often contradicts himself in his little monologues. After all, if he knew that the Evanuris possessed "effective immortality" and thus he couldn't hope to kill them permanently, then he must have known Mythal wasn't really dead either. Why couldn't he have checked the Fade to discover her presence there? Even if he couldn't do it immediately after her death, he was dreaming in the Fade for the best part of 3 millennia, so why did he never encounter her during that time? Thus, it would seem that either Mythal did not want him to find her or he omitted that important bit of information from his monologues. Anyway, if Mythal could "die", her spirit return to the Fade and yet remain incognito for 3,000+ years, why not Corypheus, if he had also cracked the secret of effective immortality? Basically, as noted, this requires the inquisitor to have an IQ of 50 if his finisher with the anchor was not going to kill him outright but instead just send him to the fade alive, so the action of doing so without pretty much clear-cut killing him goes beyond plausible deniability. It wouldn't be the first time we were handed the idiot ball because it suited their narrative. There have been plenty of examples where I have been forced by the writers into accepting a course of action that seems less than ideal. I've always had my doubts about how we dealt with Corypheus at the end of DAI but I was willing to shrug my shoulders so long as it didn't have any lasting consequences going forward. If they did end up bringing back Corypheus, I would be really annoyed at how they forced such an outcome on me.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 13, 2023 10:04:49 GMT
Basically I took the ritual in Absolution as opening a portal to the Fade. On the face of it, this is all it entails but why the need for so much blood? The Mortalitasi call spirits through all the time and even if this does require blood magic (one of the Devs said that Necromancy is a form of blood magic), clearly only a small amount is required or they would long ago have raised the ire of the Chantry. Rasaren used not only the blood of individuals killed in the destruction at the end but also the blood of the dragon itself. Now it is possible it is the source of the blood that is important. Corypheus told his slave that it was necessary to use the blood of elves because of their link to the Fade (magic in the blood) and I would imagine that dragon blood is similar in its inherent properties. I have begun to wonder if there is a reason why the ruling elite of Nevarra are so closely associated with dragon slaying, considering the Mortalitasi were formed at the same time as Casper I assumed the first kingship. I also have speculated that the rituals of the Mortalitasi were probably taken from much older practices from the time of the Ancient Imperium, which were then revived when Casper took the throne. It would be interesting to know how Thelhen called Ishmael through into the Waking World. Apparently it required a ritual and certain ingredients. Then in order to get Imshael to comply with his request for information/ability to enter the Eluvian network, he was required to sacrifice an individual to possession through blood magic, something that he was unwilling to do. So, did he call Imshael through without blood magic? An interesting offshoot from this is the question of why blood acts in this way? The Veil is thinned through the use of blood magic. Kill enough people and it is shattered altogether. Apparently this happened at Marnas Pell, where there is now a localised permanent rift owing to the amount of blood shed through warfare in this location. This information has been known since DAO but no one has ever explained why this is the case. Now we know that the Veil is not a natural feature of creation but an artificial construct, presumably this has something to do with it.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Jan 13, 2023 11:38:36 GMT
As I've noted, it's most likely due to dealing with an opponent who has a very unusual set of abilities and has cheated death on multiple occasions; searching through the fade was done out of precaution just in case he had something else up his sleeve, ultimately leading to an army of mages confirming that he is gone as no trace of him was found in the fade. I mean beside there being form of afterlife and us seeing him there it would be impossible to confirm he (or anyone) is dead beyond naturally his absence after we killed him while turning off his resurrection ability. So we are pretty much with him almost as close to certainty as currently we can only be with that someone died or that they're gone for good. Now this was one of the anomalies of the plot in DAI that I was never entirely happy with; the linking of his immortality to his dragon. This immediately raised the question with me as to when he divided his soul with the creature. After all, he revived by exactly the same process when Hawke "killed" him. So, does that mean he had already acquired his dragon before the Wardens imprisoned him? If so, what happened to the dragon during the ensuing 1000+ years? Presumably it went into hibernation but there was no suggestion of any dragon associated with him in Legacy and I simply assumed it was some ability associated with the fact he was a blighted creature with a soul, just as the Arch-demon is. Of course, we also needed to understand how he could jump to a Grey Warden and replace them, rather than both die as was the case with an Arch-demon but at least there was a precedent of a powerful, intelligent, blighted soul being able to do this. Now Solas also says that he never anticipated a human Magister would have discovered the secret of "effective immortality", yet he also maintains that he knew he couldn't kill the Evanuris permanently because of this ability, which is why he opted for imprisonment instead. So, if the dragon was necessary for Corypheus' effective immortality, then it would seem it was likely the same for the Evanuris. Hence the belief that the Old Gods might be the split soul "other" of the Evanuris and that the reason Mythal did not simply survive by a similar means after her "death" is that the other Evanuris did something to her dragon. So, she was forced to return to the Fade and recover her strength there before seeking a host body she could co-exist in. This being the case, it is conceivably possible that Corypheus could do the same, so the reason the mages couldn't find any trace of him is that his blighted body had been destroyed but his spirit/soul was undetectable to them. Of course, Solas often contradicts himself in his little monologues. After all, if he knew that the Evanuris possessed "effective immortality" and thus he couldn't hope to kill them permanently, then he must have known Mythal wasn't really dead either. Why couldn't he have checked the Fade to discover her presence there? Even if he couldn't do it immediately after her death, he was dreaming in the Fade for the best part of 3 millennia, so why did he never encounter her during that time? Thus, it would seem that either Mythal did not want him to find her or he omitted that important bit of information from his monologues. Anyway, if Mythal could "die", her spirit return to the Fade and yet remain incognito for 3,000+ years, why not Corypheus, if he had also cracked the secret of effective immortality? Basically, as noted, this requires the inquisitor to have an IQ of 50 if his finisher with the anchor was not going to kill him outright but instead just send him to the fade alive, so the action of doing so without pretty much clear-cut killing him goes beyond plausible deniability. It wouldn't be the first time we were handed the idiot ball because it suited their narrative. There have been plenty of examples where I have been forced by the writers into accepting a course of action that seems less than ideal. I've always had my doubts about how we dealt with Corypheus at the end of DAI but I was willing to shrug my shoulders so long as it didn't have any lasting consequences going forward. If they did end up bringing back Corypheus, I would be really annoyed at how they forced such an outcome on me. I think he had his ability to resurrect himself before he had the dragon that he corrupted with Red Lyrium, linking it with him, and by doing so he created a weakness that allowed him to put him down as his ability is tied to the taint. I think he got it (albeit I'm not certain) between the events of Legacy and DAI (which will be at least 3–4 years), and when Hawke confronted him, he probably didn't have this weakness or dragon. It also makes sense, as Corypheus was searching for a source of red lyrium, as revealed by Bianca, and thus would corrupt that dragon with the red lyrium he obtained. Why would he do that and create his own weakness? Possibly he didn't know he would create such a weakness. Possibly he thought he no one would be able to take him and his dragon out, he is stated to be quite arrogant and looking down on people. Possibly he wanted that dragon as his symbol ie as a servant imitating old gods because he was bitter and resentful of old gods for seemingly tricking them. Having a dragon also offers numerous advantages, such as the ability to travel quickly and get into inaccessible or hard to access places, plus fire power. As for nature of his ability. It's clearly linked to taint, as he can't jump into just anyone; he jumps into grey wardens and possibly other darkspawn. Albeit it's distinct from Archdemon ability to jump into tainted creature as it apparently is lethal for both grey warden and archdemon. According to Flemeth "soul can't (or at least it isn't forced upon unwilling) itself upon unwilling" and it holds true in regard to archdemon, while Corypheus disregards that supposed rule as he doesn't require approval of the host and nor it is lethal to him. It's not impossible that Corypheus resorts to some loophole in that rule, as it seems Corypheus is able to influence and control Grey Wardens to some degree. It's not impossible that he just uses mind control on the grey warden he is about to possess to make the grey warden accept him as a host and possess him. Mind you Elven gods means and possibly way they were immortal are extremely likely distinct from that Corypheus attained via taint. We see other ways to come back to life with Flemeth. Flemeth sort of uses amulet that she trapped part of herself to come back to life or at least release that part of herself from amulet while other part was destroyed by the warden (mind you even if you didn't kill her she still comes out from that amulet so either there are multiple flemeths or she was just transported if alive). Add to that nature of the world was vastly distinct pre-veil and possibly by virtue of their power and nature of the world one couldn't really kill elven god as similarly to demons/spirits they would be just reborn (albeit possibly without drawbacks of dying that spirits/demons seem to have). Mythal was killed in the pre-veil world, which seems to be bound by vastly different rules than modern Thedas, and mages had significantly greater power in that world. If being from the fade (or at least some of them) is killed it appears at least in some cases it send to the fade and survives to some extent at very least. People from Thedas don't really work that way; if you die, you seem to pretty much stay dead unless some extraordinary circumstances are involved. Corypheus is technically just a mortal darkspawn (former human); if you kill him, he should stay dead if you disable his ability to body jump. Mythal was not a denizen of the post-veil world, Mythal lived and was killed in the pre-veil world, and in the post-veil world, she needs trinkets with part of her soul in them to survive being killed. Now you may be asking what prevents Corypheus from doing the same as Flemeth, I would assume knowledge gap between top tier mage in pre-veil world and high-tier mage in post-veil world that lost much of knowledge about magic from pre-veil world. In addition for someone with back up plan in case of dying he sure was quite desperate for someone with such pride, as to start pleading for Dumat aid (which I doubt he would do if he didn't know this is going to be end of him). Solas is one person as compared to an army of mages to send after Corypheus. If I recall correctly, Solas was in uthenera after the veil was torn. Assuming even if he wouldn't, it's possibly he thought she was pretty much dead for as other elven gods seem to gang up on her. Another possibility was that he learned she was "alive" or that she never truly died and just existed as a shadow of her former self (he seems to be aware of this in the Inquisition and not really surprised about it). That level of forced stupidity (as I've said, we are talking about a brain-dead degree of imbecility) would not be matched by anything they've done so far. The closest thing I can only think of is how they forced anti-qunari or hostile to Talis Hawke to let her go with qunari spies in Mark of the Assassin and this is even worse than that considering we are talking about guy that almost destroyed entire world and sending him to the fade alive. All of this would be just in order to as I've said microwave already used twice villain. So scenario they would force such degree of stupidity on PC just to use the same villain for third time is extremely unlikely.
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Post by fairdragon on Jan 13, 2023 11:39:00 GMT
So, if the dragon was necessary for Corypheus' effective immortality, then it would seem it was likely the same for the Evanuris. Hence the belief that the Old Gods might be the split soul "other" of the Evanuris and that the reason Mythal did not simply survive by a similar means after her "death" is that the other Evanuris did something to her dragon. So, she was forced to return to the Fade and recover her strength there before seeking a host body she could co-exist in. This being the case, it is conceivably possible that Corypheus could do the same, so the reason the mages couldn't find any trace of him is that his blighted body had been destroyed but his spirit/soul was undetectable to them. I think you are on the right track! That would mean Solas don't like the greywarden because they kill the anchors and freed the spirits of the Evanuris. So they are like Mythal. Now i would like to know which two are left? And which are on the search for a soul mate? And what does Mythal know? For Corypheus, he is dead until he find someone who thinks like him. Mythal said she only could find Flemeth because they shared a same fate.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 13, 2023 13:02:37 GMT
That would mean Solas don't like the greywarden because they kill the anchors and freed the spirits of the Evanuris. It isn't just his dislike that I'm thinking of but the fact he was beside himself at the idea they were attempting to seek out and kill the last two Old Gods. That suggested one of three possibilities: a] Killing the Old God frees that portion of the soul of the Evanuris, which allows them either to manifest as a free entity in the Fade or at the very least reunite with the other in his prison, making them stronger as a result. b] The Old Gods are the split soul of the Forgotten Ones (who the Dalish believe were also imprisoned by Fen'Harel) with a similar outcome to a] if killed. Whilst once his allies, they are likely to bear an enormous grudge against him for betraying them. c] The Old God dragons were the enemies of the Evanuris who aided him in creating the Veil and killing them would have destroyed the seals on his prison before he was ready to confront his old enemies.
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Post by ergates on Jan 23, 2023 12:30:00 GMT
So who else's deaths are going to turn out to be greatly exaggerated?
Uldred? He was just faking it, and after the Warden and the Archmage left he rose to his feet, felt a bit groggy and then buggered off to Tevinter where his views would be more accepted?
Caridin? The lava sure hurt, but as a golem he managed to survive intact, and in his new role as a Molten Golem he vows to aid the protagonist...etc. etc.
Orsino? Once free of the corrupting influence of the Harvester...blah blah...
Bryce Cousland maybe? The stab wound was far worse than it looked...
Or how about Viddasala? Who, thanks to a lucky intervention that caused her to slip into the fade she forms an unlikely alliance with Duke Prosper de Monfort...
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Post by Iddy on Jan 23, 2023 12:36:14 GMT
So who else's deaths are going to turn out to be greatly exaggerated? Uldred? He was just faking it, and after the Warden and the Archmage left he rose to his feet, felt a bit groggy and then buggered off to Tevinter where his views would be more accepted? Caridin? The lava sure hurt, but as a golem he managed to survive intact, and in his new role as a Molten Golem he vows to aid the protagonist...etc. etc. Orsino? Once free of the corrupting influence of the Harvester...blah blah... Bryce Cousland maybe? The stab wound was far worse than it looked... Or how about Viddasala? Who, thanks to a lucky intervention that caused her to slip into the fade she forms an unlikely alliance with Duke Prosper de Monfort... ...who survived by grabbing a tree branch in the last second.
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Post by ergates on Jan 23, 2023 12:48:11 GMT
.... and who's fall was further cushioned by a farmer, his wife and their two children who had fortunately recovered from the wounds inflicted by Sten...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 16:49:38 GMT
... who was temporarily distracted by a Norwegian Blue parrot, that was just resting, pining for the fjords ...
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Post by q5tyhj on Jan 24, 2023 23:05:28 GMT
The only former "villians" i wouldn´t have mind there obviously Calpernia and the Architect. Maybe even the former Arishok in a new cameo role. But bringing Red Lyrium Meredith (not the more interessing normal Meredith) and lame Corypheus back is so stupid. I wonder what why not bring the DAO Archdemon aka Urthemiel also back? Who cares if this dumb as hell let all former major villians team up against the Dreadwolf. Bravo Bioware you did the impossible. No one had thought that you copy Dragon Ball (no typo) and making former big baddies into allies? So what is coming next? Besides the obvious "Can Hawke even kill and finishing the job" Memes i won´t be surprised if Meredith becomes a ally why not go for a Meredith romance? Let´s go hard in (Under) Hightown? Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing the Architect again at all. But Meredith just wasn't that interesting imo to warrant bringing back. Give us one of the other Magisters Sidereal, or the Evanuris, or one of the surviving Old Gods... don't give us a third straight DA game with Corypheus. I actually liked Corypheus more than most, but one DLC + a full game is more than enough.
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