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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 20, 2021 0:11:04 GMT
You make some very interesting points here . Maybe it has to do with which version you read or see first - I saw seasons 1 and 2 on Netflix first and then before season 3 read all the books. So the Roci crew as I knew it initially (and which somewhat remained in my head) was the one from the screen adaptation. And I remember that my inital impressions of reading book 1 were in some ways similar to what you describe here - but looking at it a bit from from the opposite side.
I did not mind that the Amos/Holden vs. Amos/Naomi "compass" dynamic were handled differently as I thought that both versions worked quite well for me. But for me the small subplot with Holden and the doctors ship on Eros was one of the highlights of that season and I was actually disappointed that it was not in the book. Maybe that was because I felt this was by far the most drastic moral choice Holden was presented with up to then - a dilemma somewhat like the "Trolley problem" in Ethics. Or maybe I have played too much Mass Effect and just like seeing these kinds of choices too much .
I will be very interested to hear your take on some of some other changes they made, especially in season 3 .
Especially with regards to Ashford which I found much more compelling in the TV version - even more so in hindsight after having read Leviathan Falls. Yeah there's no question that which version you read/see first colors your perceptions pretty much permanently... this is the main reason I wanted to finish reading the book series before starting the TV show. And as I watch further in the show its interesting because they're really heavily leaning away from the "Holden as moral paragon" thing, and its even arguable that Naomi is the one with the strongest conscience and most consistently speaking up on moral issues (for instance, the thing at the end of season 2 where she says she needs to go help refugees and can't keep helping Holden with his personal quest to eradicate the protomolecule). Which makes the Naomi/Amos thing make even more sense in retrospect... but then, this just makes the fact that they kept the Amos/Miller conversation where Amos talks about Holden being his personal moral compass even more bizarre. Once again I can't help thinking that they should have stuck with their initial decision and completely cut the Amos/Holden thing. But then, it will be interesting to see how the rest of the series plays out, since they seem to have replaced "Holden as uncompromising moral paragon" with "Holden has a personal vendetta against the protomolecule", when the former isn't just Holden's single most definitive character trait, but also the thing that keeps driving so much of the plot throughout the series. (I also don't mind morally ambiguous decisions per se, my objection to the thing with the doctors ship on Eros is that it undermines this central distinguishing trait of Holden's character- his morality... but if they've decided to fundamentally change Holden's character then that's less of a problem, but as with all this other stuff then they need to remain consistent about it) I don't quite understand why you think Holden is no longer a "paragon of moral virtue" in the series. I don't see him doing anything worse, than book-Holden does, really. Yes, they shoot down that ship but seriously, what else could they have done there?
And yea, he gets a little bit more "obsessed" about the protomolecule (I think this is foreshadowing his upcoming connection with it in a way) but I do think it's justified. I mean, it is the most dangerous substance ever seen by mankind and Holden has seen what it is capable off up close on Eros. It makes sense that he feels we need to get rid of it at all costs. And finally, he does choose to go help Naomi and the Weeping Somnambulist after all, so the you go.
They do introduce a little more tension here and there but I think there is only one single instance where they do take it too far: It's when they receive Boby's distress call from the Razorback and Holden argues against responding because apparently he thinks they can't postpone the ongoing search for Prax's kid - which at that point already lasted forever anyway - for what clearly is a desperate call for immediate help. That was stupid and it felt like a very artificial introduction of tension in the crew. Other than that, I thought it was fine. Not exactly the same as the books but not worse either IMO.
EDIT: Sorry, you posted while I wrote. Just saw it now. Yea, I am very curious to see what your take on the alter seasons will be. Both on Holden and crew as well as some of the supporting characters and how they are changed. Also, I felt in season 4 especially, they almost overdid it with the "good guy" stuff done by the Roci crew (was the same in book 4 though). In that season/book, they really go out of their way to put their own lives in danger for people they hardly should know or really care that much about.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 20, 2021 0:25:28 GMT
I don't quite understand why you think Holden is no longer a "paragon of moral virtue" in the series. I don't see him doing anything worse, than book-Holden does, really. Yes, they shoot down that ship but seriously, what else could they have done there? Not murder a ship full of innocent people is a good start. Murder isn’t moral or virtuous.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 20, 2021 0:31:06 GMT
Glad to see I’m not the only one who hated what they did with Holden in the series, regarding the whole shooting down innocent people discussion. It’s part of why I dropped this series until the finale: I like nobody on the Roci, and the only character I like in the series is Bobbie but don’t want to watch if they go the books route. What happens to my girl in the books???? (No, wait-- I don't want to know)...... "I have a bad feeling about this...." No need to worry. The show isn’t doing those books. Hopefully it stays that way or at least drastically departs from them.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 0:32:08 GMT
Yeah there's no question that which version you read/see first colors your perceptions pretty much permanently... this is the main reason I wanted to finish reading the book series before starting the TV show. And as I watch further in the show its interesting because they're really heavily leaning away from the "Holden as moral paragon" thing, and its even arguable that Naomi is the one with the strongest conscience and most consistently speaking up on moral issues (for instance, the thing at the end of season 2 where she says she needs to go help refugees and can't keep helping Holden with his personal quest to eradicate the protomolecule). Which makes the Naomi/Amos thing make even more sense in retrospect... but then, this just makes the fact that they kept the Amos/Miller conversation where Amos talks about Holden being his personal moral compass even more bizarre. Once again I can't help thinking that they should have stuck with their initial decision and completely cut the Amos/Holden thing. But then, it will be interesting to see how the rest of the series plays out, since they seem to have replaced "Holden as uncompromising moral paragon" with "Holden has a personal vendetta against the protomolecule", when the former isn't just Holden's single most definitive character trait, but also the thing that keeps driving so much of the plot throughout the series. (I also don't mind morally ambiguous decisions per se, my objection to the thing with the doctors ship on Eros is that it undermines this central distinguishing trait of Holden's character- his morality... but if they've decided to fundamentally change Holden's character then that's less of a problem, but as with all this other stuff then they need to remain consistent about it) I don't quite understand why you think Holden is no longer a "paragon of moral virtue" in the series. I don't see him doing anything worse, than book-Holden does, really. Yes, they shoot down that ship but seriously, what else could they have done there?
And yea, he gets a little bit more "obsessed" about the protomolecule (I think this is foreshadowing his upcoming connection with it in a way) but I do think it's justified. I mean, it is the most dangerous substance ever seen by mankind and Holden has seen what it is capable off up close on Eros. It makes sense that he feels we need to get rid of it at all costs. And finally, he does choose to go help Naomi and the Weeping Somnambulist after all, so the you go.
They do introduce a little more tension here and there but I think there is only one single instance where they do take it too far: It's when they receive Boby's distress call from the Razorback and Holden argues against responding because apparently he thinks they can't postpone the ongoing search for Prax's kid - which at that point already lasted forever anyway - for what clearly is a desperate call for immediate help. That was stupid and it felt like a very artificial introduction of tension in the crew. Other than that, I thought it was fine. Not exactly the same as the books but not worse either IMO.
EDIT: Sorry, you posted while I wrote. Just saw it now. Yea, I am very curious to see what your take on the alter seasons will be. Both on Holden and crew as well as some of the supporting characters and how they are changed. Also, I felt in season 4 especially, they almost overdid it with the "good guy" stuff done by the Roci crew (was the same in book 4 though). In that season/book, they really go out of their way to put their own lives in danger for people they hardly should know or really care that much about.
I don't know if I'd say he's no longer moral, but they definitely underplay it relative to the show. For instance, in the books, Holden's decision to record a transmission claiming that they found a Martian transmitter on the Canterbury is done on moral principle (Holden's belief that people have a right to know) whereas in the show his decision is "providing insurance" when they're about to get boarded by the Donnager. And then Holden and Miller spend most of their time together on Eros with Holden getting pissed at Miller for shooting people, leading to Holden blowing up on Miller for executing Dresden. And then Holden doesn't make a morally ambiguous decision to show down a ship of doctors. And so on, but you get the point. So this definitely a non-trivial change to his character. Which I don't mind, per se, the problem is that this is book-Holden's distinctive character trait, to the point that its a running-joke, and which drives a ton of the plot, and so if you're going to change that you're going to have to come up with different ways to get to the same destination now that you've tinkered with the route they take to get there. Maybe they pull it off in the end, but so far I can't find a way to view it as anything other than a mistake. Not a fatal mistake (as I keep saying, I like the show overall, and I also like the actor who plays Holden quite a bit), but still a mistake.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 0:35:18 GMT
I don't quite understand why you think Holden is no longer a "paragon of moral virtue" in the series. I don't see him doing anything worse, than book-Holden does, really. Yes, they shoot down that ship but seriously, what else could they have done there? Not murder a ship full of innocent people is a good start. Murder isn’t moral or virtuous. Yeah, book-Holden certainly would have let them go. That's his whole deal, having uncompromising moral positions and to hell with the consequences. And shooting a ship full of doctors, even if its practically defensible, is completely and explicitly contrary to this defining trait. Was it the wrong decision, in a vacuum? You can make a case that the practical consequences outweigh the principle of not harming non-combatants, so the problem isn't that. The problem is that its wrong for the character James Holden, whose entire jam is making decisions based on moral principle even if they're impractical or even outright dangerous.
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Post by dazk on Dec 20, 2021 1:15:52 GMT
S6EP02 was decent but I'm really starting to wonder how they're supposed to wrap up everything in the four episodes that are left. I'm really confused about what S6 is supposed to be if they're NOT putting the end of the book series in there. Don't tell me I watched six seasons for no closure on the story! There are so many balls in the air right now. This does not feel like the final season. Still wondering what the point of the girl and the alien fauna is. This feels like the setup to something bigger. But we've only got 4 episodes left. And they keep teasing the protomolecule, it's driving me crazy! In any case, yay, Bobbie! Closest thing to Commander Shepard out there. Holden is not it for me. Bobbie is the fucking terminator, love her! Re Bobbie she is great and has a really interesting story and character development in the later books as well but re closure for season 6, book six has a clear line in the sand to end at. How they deliver it will be the thing. The introduction of the "Strange Dogs" and Cara and Xan are a clear tease for book readers IMO and hopefully leads to the last three books coming to TV on a different platform or made as a movie trilogy.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 20, 2021 14:58:53 GMT
Not murder a ship full of innocent people is a good start. Murder isn’t moral or virtuous. Yeah, book-Holden certainly would have let them go. That's his whole deal, having uncompromising moral positions and to hell with the consequences. And shooting a ship full of doctors, even if its practically defensible, is completely and explicitly contrary to this defining trait. Was it the wrong decision, in a vacuum? You can make a case that the practical consequences outweigh the principle of not harming non-combatants, so the problem isn't that. The problem is that its wrong for the character James Holden, whose entire jam is making decisions based on moral principle even if they're impractical or even outright dangerous. I thought in the show, they made it very clear that a) the people on that ship are probably infected and if they send out a signal, others will come to Eros and investigate it, which is exactly what they need to prevent if they want the protomolecule not to spread. They are saying outright, they won't be able to contain it. At that point, they couldn't predict that Eros would start moving, making it impossible for people to get on the station soon after. They also had no other means to stop the ship.
So at that point, the question really was: Do you shoot down this one ship and outright kill a couple of people (who might be infected but you don't know that for sure) or do you let them get away and introduce the real possibility that this action results in the infection of the Sol system with protomolecule and potentially the extinction of the human species?
I a way, it's the ultimate trolley problem. Putting Holden in that position is not exactly "nice" of the writers but it is interesting (IMO, if anything, the books don't do that enough) and I don't think it undercuts his character at all. But that's just my subjective view on it, I will admit.
Hey, by they way, different issue: As I was re-watching the series, little detail occurred to me, that kinda keeps bothering me. There are a few scenes throughout the series, where we see people riding on trams (e.g. Boby on Mars, Miller on Ceris, etc.). These trams seem to go super fast and sometimes, you will see them going around curves very fast or stop very abruptly. The best example of the rapid deceleration is when Amos arrives on Luna in the beginning of season 5.
Now, since the Expanse does make a huge point of it that there is no tech like inertial dampeners or other such nonsense, how is it that these trams can change speeds that quickly without the occupants being flung about? Same with the curves, at those speeds, the g forces should be pretty severe, yet the people on the trams don't seem to notice anything. Anyone got an idea or is it just an oversight by the effects people?
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 15:30:24 GMT
Yeah, book-Holden certainly would have let them go. That's his whole deal, having uncompromising moral positions and to hell with the consequences. And shooting a ship full of doctors, even if its practically defensible, is completely and explicitly contrary to this defining trait. Was it the wrong decision, in a vacuum? You can make a case that the practical consequences outweigh the principle of not harming non-combatants, so the problem isn't that. The problem is that its wrong for the character James Holden, whose entire jam is making decisions based on moral principle even if they're impractical or even outright dangerous. I thought in the show, they made it very clear that a) the people on that ship are probably infected and if they send out a signal, others will come to Eros and investigate it, which is exactly what they need to prevent if they want the protomolecule not to spread. They are saying outright, they won't be able to contain it. At that point, they couldn't predict that Eros would start moving, making it impossible for people to get on the station soon after. They also had no other means to stop the ship.
So at that point, the question really was: Do you shoot down this one ship and outright kill a couple of people (who might be infected but you don't know that for sure) or do you let them get away and introduce the real possibility that this action results in the infection of the Sol system with protomolecule and potentially the extinction of the human species?
I a way, it's the ultimate trolley problem. Putting Holden in that position is not exactly "nice" of the writers but it is interesting (IMO, if anything, the books don't do that enough) and I don't think it undercuts his character at all. But that's just my subjective view on it, I will admit.
Hey, by they way, different issue: As I was re-watching the series, little detail occurred to me, that kinda keeps bothering me. There are a few scenes throughout the series, where we see people riding on trams (e.g. Boby on Mars, Miller on Ceris, etc.). These trams seem to go super fast and sometimes, you will see them going around curves very fast or stop very abruptly. The best example of the rapid deceleration is when Amos arrives on Luna in the beginning of season 5.
Now, since the Expanse does make a huge point of it that there is no tech like inertial dampeners or other such nonsense, how is it that these trams can change speeds that quickly without the occupants being flung about? Same with the curves, at those speeds, the g forces should be pretty severe, yet the people on the trams don't seem to notice anything. Anyone got an idea or is it just an oversight by the effects people?
One thing that was sort of distinctive of the book series was that they took inertia and acceleration and all that sort of basic physics stuff really seriously- spaceships don't fly around doing barrel rolls and crazy maneuvers like in a Star Wars movie, because in real life moving around like that would turn the humans onboard into a human spaghetti sauce. But it seems like they (understandably) chose to loosen up on that stuff in the TV series, probably because explaining it and staying true to it would require a bunch of exposition of basic physics that would bore most viewers. So my guess is that it was a deliberate decision to be more like a typical sci-fi drama in this respect and dispense with some of the realism in favor of keeping up the pace and action that you sort of need in a show like this.
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 20, 2021 16:18:03 GMT
I thought in the show, they made it very clear that a) the people on that ship are probably infected and if they send out a signal, others will come to Eros and investigate it, which is exactly what they need to prevent if they want the protomolecule not to spread. They are saying outright, they won't be able to contain it. At that point, they couldn't predict that Eros would start moving, making it impossible for people to get on the station soon after. They also had no other means to stop the ship.
So at that point, the question really was: Do you shoot down this one ship and outright kill a couple of people (who might be infected but you don't know that for sure) or do you let them get away and introduce the real possibility that this action results in the infection of the Sol system with protomolecule and potentially the extinction of the human species?
I a way, it's the ultimate trolley problem. Putting Holden in that position is not exactly "nice" of the writers but it is interesting (IMO, if anything, the books don't do that enough) and I don't think it undercuts his character at all. But that's just my subjective view on it, I will admit.
Hey, by they way, different issue: As I was re-watching the series, little detail occurred to me, that kinda keeps bothering me. There are a few scenes throughout the series, where we see people riding on trams (e.g. Boby on Mars, Miller on Ceris, etc.). These trams seem to go super fast and sometimes, you will see them going around curves very fast or stop very abruptly. The best example of the rapid deceleration is when Amos arrives on Luna in the beginning of season 5.
Now, since the Expanse does make a huge point of it that there is no tech like inertial dampeners or other such nonsense, how is it that these trams can change speeds that quickly without the occupants being flung about? Same with the curves, at those speeds, the g forces should be pretty severe, yet the people on the trams don't seem to notice anything. Anyone got an idea or is it just an oversight by the effects people?
One thing that was sort of distinctive of the book series was that they took inertia and acceleration and all that sort of basic physics stuff really seriously- spaceships don't fly around doing barrel rolls and crazy maneuvers like in a Star Wars movie, because in real life moving around like that would turn the humans onboard into a human spaghetti sauce. But it seems like they (understandably) chose to loosen up on that stuff in the TV series, probably because explaining it and staying true to it would require a bunch of exposition of basic physics that would bore most viewers. So my guess is that it was a deliberate decision to be more like a typical sci-fi drama in this respect and dispense with some of the realism in favor of keeping up the pace and action that you sort of need in a show like this. I mean, with the space ships, they do it brilliantly in the show IMO. The space flight physics and how well they keep track of g forces was what drew me into the series in the first place. It’s because they do it so we’ll with the ships that the trams stand out as odd.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 20, 2021 16:54:05 GMT
Glad to see I’m not the only one who hated what they did with Holden in the series, regarding the whole shooting down innocent people discussion. It’s part of why I dropped this series until the finale: I like nobody on the Roci, and the only character I like in the series is Bobbie but don’t want to watch if they go the books route. The entire first season and a half added unnecessary conflict and drama. I'm glad they course-corrected.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 20, 2021 16:55:55 GMT
So this definitely a non-trivial change to his character. Which I don't mind, per se, the problem is that this is book-Holden's distinctive character trait, to the point that its a running-joke, and which drives a ton of the plot, and so if you're going to change that you're going to have to come up with different ways to get to the same destination now that you've tinkered with the route they take to get there. Maybe they pull it off in the end, but so far I can't find a way to view it as anything other than a mistake. Not a fatal mistake (as I keep saying, I like the show overall, and I also like the actor who plays Holden quite a bit), but still a mistake. Hell, it was the whole reason Amos stayed on the Roci. He knows he's broken inside, and relies on Holden to tell him what the "right thing" is.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 20:57:56 GMT
So this definitely a non-trivial change to his character. Which I don't mind, per se, the problem is that this is book-Holden's distinctive character trait, to the point that its a running-joke, and which drives a ton of the plot, and so if you're going to change that you're going to have to come up with different ways to get to the same destination now that you've tinkered with the route they take to get there. Maybe they pull it off in the end, but so far I can't find a way to view it as anything other than a mistake. Not a fatal mistake (as I keep saying, I like the show overall, and I also like the actor who plays Holden quite a bit), but still a mistake. Hell, it was the whole reason Amos stayed on the Roci. He knows he's broken inside, and relies on Holden to tell him what the "right thing" is. Yes, exactly. I really want to stress that I'm not objecting to them changing things just because I want everything to be like it is in the books, that's a trap fans of a series being adapted always fall into- TV/film adaptations always require changes, usually significant ones. The reason this particular change sort of stuck in my craw is that this character trait of Holden's isn't inconsequential or incidental, Holden's uncompromising moral principles are one of the central drivers of the plot and the interpersonal dynamics of the entire Roci crew (the main characters of the series). And so its really hard for me to believe that this isn't going to have a negative effect on the story since all these plot elements and scenes and conversations are based on and presuppose this character trait of Holden's. If you take it away, but keep all the things that directly or indirect result from Holden's morality, the entire thing loses the consistency and coherency that makes the whole thing believable and compelling.
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 21:07:56 GMT
One thing that was sort of distinctive of the book series was that they took inertia and acceleration and all that sort of basic physics stuff really seriously- spaceships don't fly around doing barrel rolls and crazy maneuvers like in a Star Wars movie, because in real life moving around like that would turn the humans onboard into a human spaghetti sauce. But it seems like they (understandably) chose to loosen up on that stuff in the TV series, probably because explaining it and staying true to it would require a bunch of exposition of basic physics that would bore most viewers. So my guess is that it was a deliberate decision to be more like a typical sci-fi drama in this respect and dispense with some of the realism in favor of keeping up the pace and action that you sort of need in a show like this. I mean, with the space ships, they do it brilliantly in the show IMO. The space flight physics and how well they keep track of g forces was what drew me into the series in the first place. It’s because they do it so we’ll with the ships that the trams stand out as odd. Yeah they definitely make it a point to put some scenes in there where they're explicitly showing the effects of gravity/inertia (like Miller getting slammed from the floor when the Roci goes from null-g to thrust gravity), but I'm pretty sure there's been a few scenes where they're not as faithful or consistent about it as the book, where its not completely clear what exactly is going on with their acceleration or g-forces. May be misremembering, but I could've sworn there's been some scenes where I noticed that. And if so, I imagine its because keeping track of all the relevant physics (and somehow explaining or showing it to the viewer in every instance) is just an excessive constraint to add to a TV adaptation, which already has a bunch of extra constraints relative to what a book can do.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 20, 2021 22:08:36 GMT
I'm pissed that there's only 2 episodes uploaded! Flerkin, man! I was hoping it would be the whole season since there is only six. I really don't want to wait week-to-week.....Ugh
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Post by dazk on Dec 20, 2021 22:23:34 GMT
I'm pissed that there's only 2 episodes uploaded! Flerkin, man! I was hoping it would be the whole season since there is only six. I really don't want to wait week-to-week.....Ugh If I had the discipline I'd just wait till they all came out but I don't unfortunately. It's so stupid that they are drip feeding it.
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The world just opened up...l'm now hearing sounds that I haven't heard in quite some time!
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 20, 2021 23:10:47 GMT
I'm pissed that there's only 2 episodes uploaded! Flerkin, man! I was hoping it would be the whole season since there is only six. I really don't want to wait week-to-week.....Ugh If I had the discipline I'd just wait till they all came out but I don't unfortunately. It's so stupid that they are drip feeding it. I guess I got spoiled because earlier this year when I first got into the show....I was able to completely watch all 5 seasons consecutively-- so I just presumed that that would stay the same for season 6. I think I'll go back to my old habits.....wait till all six or eight episodes are over (avoiding SPOILERS)....and then get into it. Otherwise I may just develop the nasty habit of biting my nails,
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scary monsters/super creeps
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Post by q5tyhj on Dec 20, 2021 23:57:51 GMT
I'm pissed that there's only 2 episodes uploaded! Flerkin, man! I was hoping it would be the whole season since there is only six. I really don't want to wait week-to-week.....Ugh If I had the discipline I'd just wait till they all came out but I don't unfortunately. It's so stupid that they are drip feeding it. with any luck, they'll have released all the season 6 episodes by the time I get caught up (fingers crossed)
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Post by AnDromedary on Dec 21, 2021 16:09:14 GMT
I mean, with the space ships, they do it brilliantly in the show IMO. The space flight physics and how well they keep track of g forces was what drew me into the series in the first place. It’s because they do it so we’ll with the ships that the trams stand out as odd. Yeah they definitely make it a point to put some scenes in there where they're explicitly showing the effects of gravity/inertia (like Miller getting slammed from the floor when the Roci goes from null-g to thrust gravity), but I'm pretty sure there's been a few scenes where they're not as faithful or consistent about it as the book, where its not completely clear what exactly is going on with their acceleration or g-forces. May be misremembering, but I could've sworn there's been some scenes where I noticed that. And if so, I imagine its because keeping track of all the relevant physics (and somehow explaining or showing it to the viewer in every instance) is just an excessive constraint to add to a TV adaptation, which already has a bunch of extra constraints relative to what a book can do. Fun fact: In a making-of, I saw that they put the gravity situation in the scripts for every scene. You know how usually, in the beginning of a scene in a screenplay it would say something like “Parking lot - OUTSIDE - DAY”? Apparently, in The Expanse screenplays, it says something more like “Rocinante- INSIDE - 1g”. So they really tried. It;s still possible they messed something up of course, especially if they later changed something in the editing, though I can’t remember a specific scene where that would have happened.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Dec 21, 2021 16:47:02 GMT
Yeah they definitely make it a point to put some scenes in there where they're explicitly showing the effects of gravity/inertia (like Miller getting slammed from the floor when the Roci goes from null-g to thrust gravity), but I'm pretty sure there's been a few scenes where they're not as faithful or consistent about it as the book, where its not completely clear what exactly is going on with their acceleration or g-forces. May be misremembering, but I could've sworn there's been some scenes where I noticed that. And if so, I imagine its because keeping track of all the relevant physics (and somehow explaining or showing it to the viewer in every instance) is just an excessive constraint to add to a TV adaptation, which already has a bunch of extra constraints relative to what a book can do. Fun fact: In a making-of, I saw that they put the gravity situation in the scripts for every scene. You know how usually, in the beginning of a scene in a screenplay it would say something like “Parking lot - OUTSIDE - DAY”? Apparently, in The Expanse screenplays, it says something more like “Rocinante- INSIDE - 1g”. So they really tried. It;s still possible they messed something up of course, especially if they later changed something in the editing, though I can’t remember a specific scene where that would have happened. I want to say it wasn't until the latter half of season 2 or early season 3 that I noticed people were wearing magnetic boots
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* Headbutt *
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: toptrog
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Post by TopTrog on Dec 22, 2021 22:43:01 GMT
Hey, by they way, different issue: As I was re-watching the series, little detail occurred to me, that kinda keeps bothering me. There are a few scenes throughout the series, where we see people riding on trams (e.g. Boby on Mars, Miller on Ceris, etc.). These trams seem to go super fast and sometimes, you will see them going around curves very fast or stop very abruptly. The best example of the rapid deceleration is when Amos arrives on Luna in the beginning of season 5.
Now, since the Expanse does make a huge point of it that there is no tech like inertial dampeners or other such nonsense, how is it that these trams can change speeds that quickly without the occupants being flung about? Same with the curves, at those speeds, the g forces should be pretty severe, yet the people on the trams don't seem to notice anything. Anyone got an idea or is it just an oversight by the effects people?
Yep, I think the same, especially for the scene you have mentioned. That sudden stop should have an effect like hitting a brick wall. Possibly just an oversight in this case. This bothers me a bit as well, since in many ways they did a good job of keeping the depiction of the mechanics quite plausible, sometimes in small details (I loved those scenes when f.ex. they push the Nauvoo from Tycho with the thrusters (and when they turn it around later) or the depictions of spin gravity effects).
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Post by hoku on Dec 24, 2021 14:04:36 GMT
OMFG LOVED LOVED LOVED Episode 6.03 I hate "Paragon" Holden so much! cripple the Free navy with Inaros blown up. Naomi's kid made his choice in S5. Lovely to see Anna and especially PAX!!! Really sad though, because I've read their arcs were cut short because of the 6 Episode only season (and possibly Covid) I think especially Pax-story is important regarding saving the sol system inhabitants eventually. Still disappointed they couldn't get Dawes (Harris) to do at least a video call with whomever, while him/his ship being blown up by Inaros or something. Bobbie and Amos in the Galley *it's made from Mars honey bun* LMAO!!! I don't have Amazon and haven't been able to find those X-Ray shorts anywhere. Hope I get to see them eventually, especially THIS one. the Space battle was amazing - visual wizzarding - despite vaguely knowing what happens I gulped when I saw the Roci showing up on Inaro's ships scanner. What an epic sequence and badass Bobbie, only for Holden to Paragon it up ffs. One of my favorite episodes of the whole series. Outstanding!
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The world just opened up...l'm now hearing sounds that I haven't heard in quite some time!
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 24, 2021 14:29:05 GMT
I have been waiting for Ep 6.03! If it is out now I am going to watch it!
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The world just opened up...l'm now hearing sounds that I haven't heard in quite some time!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Dec 25, 2021 3:06:59 GMT
Wouldn't it be funny if Holden acted more like Renegade Cmdr Shepard? I can see the scene playing out now:
Holden, Bobbie and Amos board Ceres Station on a mission to find Innaros and they shoot up the station leaving one last Belter to talk to.
"I'm looking for your leader. Marco Innaros. You're going to tell me where he is."
"I ain't tellin' you shit, Beltaswala"
"Damn it, tell me! Marco Innaros. WHERE. IS. HE?"
"I've got nothing more to say to you--"
*Holden [chooses the Renegade Interrupt] abruptly cuts off the Belter in mid-sentence, pushing him out the air-lock before he can finish speaking*
"How about 'good-bye' ?" Holden watches for a brief moment, then turns to leave. Amos and Bobbie following.
[END SCENE]
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Dec 25, 2021 17:05:50 GMT
Wouldn't it be funny if Holden acted more like Renegade Cmdr Shepard? I can see the scene playing out now: Holden, Bobbie and Amos board Ceres Station on a mission to find Innaros and they shoot up the station leaving one last Belter to talk to. "I'm looking for your leader. Marco Innaros. You're going to tell me where he is." "I ain't tellin' you shit, Beltaswala" "Damn it, tell me! Marco Innaros. WHERE. IS. HE?" "I've got nothing more to say to you--" *Holden [chooses the Renegade Interrupt] abruptly cuts off the Belter in mid-sentence, pushing him out the air-lock before he can finish speaking* "How about 'good-bye' ?" Holden watches for a brief moment, then turns to leave. Amos and Bobbie following. [END SCENE] That sounds more like Amos
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 25, 2021 22:27:14 GMT
Episode 3 was pretty good! Holden is such a moral guy. He should have killed Inaros but of course he couldn't kill Naomi's brat. Ugh. Dumbass. Was a really cool sequence though. I'm not usually much excited about space battles but this one was done very well.
I hope Filip kills his father soon. I want him to have redemption. He knows his father is a ruthless psycho. And it seems to bother him. Time to end his reign of terror.
Not sure what happened on Ceres there with the explosions...
Hey Pax, never thought he'd be back! I liked the guy. I miss the goodness of the season he was in!
Right now the most intriguing thing for me is what's going on with the little girl and that alien dog who can bring the dead back to life!!!! That's some mind boggling stuff! So the brother will be brought back too?? I can't watch the extra x-ray scenes either on my TV. I can't be bothered to download the Prime app on my friggin phone for this. What a shit feature.
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