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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 24, 2024 19:35:16 GMT
Just to prove my point with the vallaslin. This is Abelas, an ancient elf priest of Mythal: ![](https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/images/728/9343055-1484232670.jpg) These are the vallaslin of a devotee of Mythal in the Freemarches Clan Lavellan: ![](https://31.media.tumblr.com/c90d17caa5ec2331f531f746a83daf76/tumblr_inline_ngzo20Qk8u1rnry87.png) After several millennia and slavery in Tevinter, they still managed to preserve the vallaslin almost exactly. There are variants in the design but the basic structure is the same. Pretty good going huh? So why would clans suddenly start doing it differently after only a few hundred years?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2024 19:58:57 GMT
I feel every Dalish having the same Vallaslin is a limitation due to this being a game series.
Personally I prefer the approach where not only do different clans have different designs based off a common original, but each individual personalizes them like we see with Merrill and now Bellara and Davrin.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 24, 2024 20:11:04 GMT
But that's in accordance with the lore. The Dalish are far from being a monolith - since DAO it was mentioned that the clans have spread all over Thedas and can differ from one another greatly. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When your entire existence is devoted to restoring and preserving your culture, such things as the vallaslin should not have such great variance because maintaining them correctly should matter. That's not how it works - take it from someone who actually comes from a country where our culture was actively destroyed and at times we were even forbidden to speak the language or use our endonyms. There were differences about how to do things and how to preserve them, and even among those who lived in roughly the same area argued about it. In fact, we still argue to this day, heh To say nothing about ideas of folks who emigrated - I come from a diaspora, so I know. Despite living most of my life in the country, I had arguments with my own family living abroad about the state of things here, including things I thought we were more-or-less in agreement about. So imagine how hard it is when elves are scattered all over Thedas, and don't have easy ways to communicate with one another. An occasional Arlathven only some tribes gather for is too little - the codices even mention that meetings between hahrens usually end with furious shouting, and the Dalish laugh that the true reason the clans go their separate ways is because leaders can't stand one another (clearly because they have different ideas about their lives and their missions) In other words - you're demanding way too much consistency from a very fractured group of people with no means to consistently stay in touch with one another. Elves having no variance in things like vallaslins is IMO more unrealistic than magic and dragons. It is, in fact, entirely natural. Also - we don't really know what Solas tried to correct - but it's *extremely unlikely* he tried to tell them their vallaslins are of a wrong shapes, given that WE KNOW he thinks vallaslins are *just wrong*, as they are symbols of subjugation (which he was known for removing). Even more so, knowing that he's fine with Lavellan infusing valasslin with her own meaning I'd say he'd be even one to encourage for vallaslins to divert heavily from vallaslin shapes associated with Evanuris. Merril can't realistically know that, just like the Dalish clans can't realistically know what all clans or elves are doing. Thedas isn't XXI Earth, where thanks to the Internet I can know that a friend on the other side of the globe had for breakfast. We also don't know of anything like a census that happened at any time in Thedas. But yes, actually, it has been established that some of the clans live so much apart from others that their whereabouts are basically unknown. And if clans of the South stay away from Tevinter, how could they possibly know what happens to those Dalish clans that were brave enough to stick to lands inhabited by their ancestors? All I know is that those 'perils of existence' would be enough to cause the tribes to differentiate from one another.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 25, 2024 7:29:48 GMT
I feel every Dalish having the same Vallaslin is a limitation due to this being a game series. Personally I prefer the approach where not only do different clans have different designs based off a common original, but each individual personalizes them like we see with Merrill and now Bellara and Davrin. But that wouldn't make sense. This are slave Tattoos, which are used to identify oneself as someone's property. Just like cows are branded.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2024 7:33:04 GMT
I feel every Dalish having the same Vallaslin is a limitation due to this being a game series. Personally I prefer the approach where not only do different clans have different designs based off a common original, but each individual personalizes them like we see with Merrill and now Bellara and Davrin. But that wouldn't make sense. This are slave Tattoos, which are used to identify oneself as someone's property. Just like cows are branded. They haven’t been slave tattoos for centuries, but ironically being symbols of freedom.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 25, 2024 8:03:19 GMT
They haven’t been slave tattoos for centuries, but ironically being symbols of freedom. Which is part of the reason why I think they would be determined to keep them as accurate as possible to what they believe they were like in ancient Arlathan (which it would seem they have achieved). The humans tried to destroy their culture. The elves in Tevinter and in the cities are forbidden the vallaslin. The Chantry tried to force them to adopt a different religion. So, altering the vallaslin would seem like a capitulation to those who were trying to force change upon them. However, we were offered variants based off the basic design, which is how each elf can gain a bit of individuality in their choice. Unfortunately, I don't think we can read too much into Merrill's design, since they changed the tattoos from DAO to DAI, presumably something to do with the game engine, and may already have realised they needed to do this when finalising the appearance of DA2. Let's face it the elves changed drastically from DAO to DA2 and then back to more of a DAO look for DAI. As for Bellara and Davrin, that is my whole point. If they just have a slight variation then okay, that may be a regional difference. However, Bellara's vallaslin look markedly different from any we have encountered before, which is why I wonder if we will be allowed to raise the issue with her and what her answer will be. I am not prepared to accept "the Dalish have grown apart over the years" as a valid answer if she tries to claim they represent a known elven god as venerated by the Dalish, particularly as that was something that Solas used as an argument so may not even be true but the excuse his agents were instructed to give if people queried anything that seemed odd about their behaviour or appearance compared with the Dalish that people had encountered. I imagine we may get some sort of clue in the vallaslin we are offered in the character creator (assuming we can play a Dalish this time round) but particularly if we choose Veil Jumper as our faction. It is simply that having been burned by Solas, I am not inclined to be so trusting in the future. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Jun 27, 2024 11:34:21 GMT
Bellara looks fun. Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but she feels like a female Nathan Drake in a fantasy setting.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2024 13:04:38 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. ![](https://i.redd.it/kmnu942are6d1.png)
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Post by azarhal on Jun 27, 2024 13:24:37 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. ![](https://i.redd.it/kmnu942are6d1.png) Looks washed out brown to me.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2024 13:50:56 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. Looks washed out brown to me. To me it looks almost gold - it pairs were with the gold of her earring and equipment.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Jun 27, 2024 13:56:55 GMT
I see it as green more than brown or gold.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Jun 27, 2024 14:01:44 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. ![](https://i.redd.it/kmnu942are6d1.png) It's possible it's important as its a very unique tat. Her whole color theme could have been designed around the tat. Or could just be creative freedom over lore like with Sera's human body in DAI.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jun 27, 2024 14:04:35 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. Eh....baby poop color?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2024 18:01:41 GMT
I really hope they let us ask her about her vallaslin, particularly if there is the option to play Dalish. Davrin's vallaslin are unusual but do bear a certain similarity to those we have seen before. Bellara's are definitely unique and I want to know why the emphasis on diamond shapes, that up close do seem to be joined together triangles, and the number of triangles in her earrings. They have to mean something to her.
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Post by cyanwool on Jun 27, 2024 18:16:30 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. About the color, Ghil Dirthalen* theorized that it could be a forgotten one vallaslin that was described in the Last Court as red too, but I also think it's more brownish/gold. The difference in design is certainly important, though, it's too noticeable. Plus, she seems scared in her tarot card and cast in darkness, a big contrast with how she appears in the trailer and her descriptions. There's something more to her, surely *she is a community council member but wasn't told anything about the vallaslin, apparently testers did not have access to a lot of side content
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2024 18:48:24 GMT
Plus, she seems scared in her tarot card and cast in darkness, a big contrast with how she appears in the trailer and her descriptions. There's something more to her, surely Her group have been up in Arlathan for a while now, so it is possible she uncovered some ancient magic up there and that is tied to the vallaslin. The DAMP character Cillian is said to have found an ancient shrine to the Arcane Warriors in the south of Thedas, which is where he learned the craft and interestingly enough he had the vallaslin of June, although I do not know if he had then before he left for the shrine and whether his devotion to June led to his desire to seek out more knowledge on the Arcane Warriors. Still, it is possible that Bellara could have found an ancient shrine in Arlathan and if she hadn't already got vallaslin, she took that design from something she found there. The magic she is performing in her tarot card involves triangles, so they have to be significant to her in some way and perhaps some unique abilities she possesses.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 27, 2024 18:52:28 GMT
I like the veil jumper concept. It sounds adventurous and I'm all for it. I don't know about Bellara yet, don't have an opinion yet about her. Yea hI thin kit'l lwor kew;ll wit hDalish/elven mages which is wh yI'm thinkin go fan elven mage Veil jumper for m ysecond playthrough .O fcfours eit lqargel ydepends on ho th egam plays andworks though.
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theascendent
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Post by theascendent on Jun 27, 2024 18:59:07 GMT
What intrigues me is her gauntlet. It denotes that the Ancient Elves were far more technologically advanced than I assumed. I saw the old Empire of Elvhenenan as Ancient Greece, eventually surpassed by the pseudo-Roman Tevinter Imperium. If they had access to that kind of magitech before the Veil, then they were probably using magic as a form of electricity in the form of high-tech dystopia (dystopia because of slavery and all the abuses associated with the institution). I am guessing the gauntlet was either so common as to be pedestrian in pre-Veil times, or reserved for the Elites.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 27, 2024 19:03:44 GMT
He didn't write the whole of Tevinter Nights. That was just a collection of short stories by a number of different authors, some of whom have since left Bioware and some of whom are still on the team. What John Epler wrote were the two stories Horror of Hormack and Half Up Front. Horror of Hormack was really creepy and had shades of Hespith and her rhyme in the Deep Roads about how the darkspawn make broodmothers, the process by which Golems are made, and for that matter the DLC Golems of Armgarrek, all of which involve pretty horrific processes to create something unnatural. It was very much dark fantasy and there were definite hints that it was something that would feature in the future, even more likely now we know one of the gods that was released as it was strongly hinted that was the god who created the pools. There was also a link between that story and the Executors because the phenomena in HoH smelt of brine/the sea as did agent of the Executors in the final story Dread Wolf Take You by Weekes. In that story the Executor was pretty creepy and it was not possible to see what manner of creature they might be, whilst Solas ensured the people present would never discover more as he petrified them before they could reveal anything.
Half Up Front wasn't as dark but it did involve an agent of Solas trying to escalate the war between Tevinter and the Qun. Also, that the Qun were continuing their magical research program after the setback with the Viddasala and this was again something that was targeted by Solas' agent.
So, if Bellara and her group are doing magical research they are most likely either working for the Executors against Solas or vice versa. It will certainly be interesting to learn his reaction to Bellara as that will probably be indicative of where her loyalties lie. Interesting....as disturbing as it was, I always enjoyed A Paragon of Her Kind, and the rhyme Hespith put out. It really set the tone for the Deep Roads. I feel a bit better now about her, so I really hope she leans more towards Merrill than PeeBee, but without knowing more about her, it's hard to say. So, I'm more inclined to give her a chance. Yeah I liked Meril Sara and Peebee ewre over the top but I liked th efacttha tMerril was calmer so yea hI'd be up for a more Merril type character I coul dsee myself usin gher a bit if she's a little more like that
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2024 21:02:27 GMT
What intrigues me is her gauntlet. It denotes that the Ancient Elves were far more technologically advanced than I assumed. Well, that assertion is dependent on the idea that her gauntlet does come from Ancient Thedosian elves and not somewhere else. It is certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility that the ancient elves were technologically advanced when it came to magical doodads, although previously we were given to understand that magic was performed in lengthy rituals, often needing a considerable number of participants to effect it, probably accounting for the need for a large number of subservient elves. We were told in DAI that very little is actually known about June for instance. The Dalish believe he was a master of crafting, whilst the codex about the Grand Sonallium speaks of "clever June", so possibly it is only the other elves that used lengthy magic rituals but June was the one behind the more technological magical items. That would fit with my idea that he was possibly not an elf at all but a dwarf that Mythal had "elevated" in some way to perform crafting for her and the other gods. There are a couple of inscriptions found in the Emerald Graves that may be relevant: Tanaleth was a smith and the High Keeper of June; she spent her years rediscovering the arts of Arlathan Dalish revere Elnora for her tireless work reviving the magical arts of lost Arlathan. Calmar was Elnora's apprentice and First, and friend to the halla.If Bellara is a genuine Dalish then it is possible her clan may have descended from Tanaleth and maintained some of the arts she had rediscovered after the fall of the Dales. Also, it doesn't say which god or goddess that Elnora served but her apprentice, Calmar, was a friend to the halla, suggesting they may have had some link to Ghilan'nain and her magical arts.
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jun 28, 2024 8:33:35 GMT
Something else about Bellara's vallaslin. What colour are they? I would have thought brown but DarthShadie Lavellan suggested faded red. What do you think? It might just be a cosmetic choice but it could be important. ![](https://i.redd.it/kmnu942are6d1.png) Gold, for sure
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 28, 2024 9:00:44 GMT
Could thouse 2 have the same colour?
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Hrungr
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ღ N-Special
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 28, 2024 12:31:50 GMT
Any theories on Bellara's elven toy from the trailer? 🧐 Power source? Key? Gauntlet/Bow Upgrade? Executor Child's Puzzle, Astr...err...Fade Prism? Trailer McGuffin? ![](https://i.imgur.com/sxqLnUh.jpeg)
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 28, 2024 12:47:08 GMT
Any theories on Bellara's elven toy from the trailer? 🧐 Power source? Key? Gauntlet/Bow Upgrade? Executor Child's Puzzle, Astr...err...Fade Prism? Trailer McGuffin? ![](https://i.imgur.com/sxqLnUh.jpeg) No idea bu twhatever it is it looks cool and kind of dangerous. Kind o fremind me of the She ra cartoons wher eShe ra could rtansform he rsword into other items like a rope. Like in this clip
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Jun 28, 2024 12:48:12 GMT
Maybe the Crucious Stone that Solas took from Arlathan Forest from the comic series The Missing?
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