inherit
131
0
Dec 17, 2018 14:01:15 GMT
1,803
Ahriman
1,503
August 2016
ahriman
|
Post by Ahriman on Nov 6, 2016 21:07:34 GMT
I tell you: I got the feeling the people going to Andromeda (volunteers, adventurers, explorers, scientists... and a bunch of criminals) went before ME1 events. They know is one way ticket, but they hoped they can communicate with Milky Way (that's why there is sponsorship from the MW, because they want to know some results). The problem is 600 years later, when the Ai people finally arrive to Andromeda, they discover there are no communication with Milky Way. The last message was the Council/Hackett/whoever telling to the Ai head project about the massive attack they suffered in Milky Way, how the Reapers are harvesting and destroying all advanced species. Earth and Palaven are occuppied, Thessia has just fallen. You are the last (unintentional) survivors of all Milky Way. Because that is the last log and info they have, Ai people actually think they are the last of their dangered species. Meanwhile, the MW doesn't care because 600 years have passed since the Reaper Wars, a lot of destruction was involved, so nobody remembers and there is no much recording data about those geeks who left to Andromeda before the Citadel Attack and the Reaper Wars. I know my theory is not perfect, but since a writer point of view: 1) Things are simplified for old ME players and new ME players. 2) You don't put the focus in the Reapers per se, not for leaving. But at the same time, you put the results of the Reapers menace: we are in Andromeda not only for Science and Exploring and a new home, BUT ALSO the survival of all especies remaining in theUniverse is all on us. Ok, "exploration is imperative" as ME twitter likes to post and everyone is ready to throw money on it like it's Christmas sale. Why three (or dozen) Arks then? To explore it harder? I don't mention technical lore problems right now. Just why such an overkill?
|
|
inherit
303
0
Dec 26, 2017 16:36:01 GMT
6,009
dalinne
Vanguard of your destruction
1,724
August 2016
dalinne
|
Post by dalinne on Nov 6, 2016 21:28:21 GMT
I tell you: I got the feeling the people going to Andromeda (volunteers, adventurers, explorers, scientists... and a bunch of criminals) went before ME1 events. They know is one way ticket, but they hoped they can communicate with Milky Way (that's why there is sponsorship from the MW, because they want to know some results). The problem is 600 years later, when the Ai people finally arrive to Andromeda, they discover there are no communication with Milky Way. The last message was the Council/Hackett/whoever telling to the Ai head project about the massive attack they suffered in Milky Way, how the Reapers are harvesting and destroying all advanced species. Earth and Palaven are occuppied, Thessia has just fallen. You are the last (unintentional) survivors of all Milky Way. Because that is the last log and info they have, Ai people actually think they are the last of their dangered species. Meanwhile, the MW doesn't care because 600 years have passed since the Reaper Wars, a lot of destruction was involved, so nobody remembers and there is no much recording data about those geeks who left to Andromeda before the Citadel Attack and the Reaper Wars. I know my theory is not perfect, but since a writer point of view: 1) Things are simplified for old ME players and new ME players. 2) You don't put the focus in the Reapers per se, not for leaving. But at the same time, you put the results of the Reapers menace: we are in Andromeda not only for Science and Exploring and a new home, BUT ALSO the survival of all especies remaining in theUniverse is all on us. Ok, "exploration is imperative" as ME twitter likes to post and everyone is ready to throw money on it like it's Christmas sale. Why three (or dozen) Arks then? To explore it harder? I don't mention technical lore problems right now. Just why such an overkill? I'm not sure we will have twelve Arks to begin with. Twelve Arks theme is another theory born with the name of Hyperion (twelve titans) and the fact that in one of the trailers it's seems there are more than only one Ark. Three Arks for this exploration endevour seems more likely than twelve. As I said, I know the theory is not "ferpect" , but well, responding to your question, why such an overkill, maybe Andromeda is like the Everest for XXII rich people : Seriously, guys, why to go to Andromeda? BECAUSE IT'S THERE!!! EDIT: it's more likely at the end, Ai regardless of its origins, became a contingency plan for escape the Reapers. I like that idea too, the problem I see is to fit that into the narrative of a new game. It's also possible our characters don't know anything about Reapers and contingency plan for survival of MW species but the Council use it that way or even replicate the Arks' system.
|
|
inherit
131
0
Dec 17, 2018 14:01:15 GMT
1,803
Ahriman
1,503
August 2016
ahriman
|
Post by Ahriman on Nov 6, 2016 23:15:00 GMT
Ok, "exploration is imperative" as ME twitter likes to post and everyone is ready to throw money on it like it's Christmas sale. Why three (or dozen) Arks then? To explore it harder? I don't mention technical lore problems right now. Just why such an overkill? I'm not sure we will have twelve Arks to begin with. Twelve Arks theme is another theory born with the name of Hyperion (twelve titans) and the fact that in one of the trailers it's seems there are more than only one Ark. Three Arks for this exploration endevour seems more likely than twelve. As I said, I know the theory is not "ferpect" , but well, responding to your question, why such an overkill, maybe Andromeda is like the Everest for XXII rich people : Seriously, guys, why to go to Andromeda? BECAUSE IT'S THERE!!! EDIT: it's more likely at the end, Ai regardless of its origins, became a contingency plan for escape the Reapers. I like that idea too, the problem I see is to fit that into the narrative of a new game.It's also possible our characters don't know anything about Reapers and contingency plan for survival of MW species but the Council use it that way or even replicate the Arks' system. I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact it's most likely scenario right now, given the info we have. I'm just trying to figure out writers' thought process behind "we are the explorers".
|
|
inherit
303
0
Dec 26, 2017 16:36:01 GMT
6,009
dalinne
Vanguard of your destruction
1,724
August 2016
dalinne
|
Post by dalinne on Nov 6, 2016 23:33:01 GMT
I'm not sure we will have twelve Arks to begin with. Twelve Arks theme is another theory born with the name of Hyperion (twelve titans) and the fact that in one of the trailers it's seems there are more than only one Ark. Three Arks for this exploration endevour seems more likely than twelve. As I said, I know the theory is not "ferpect" , but well, responding to your question, why such an overkill, maybe Andromeda is like the Everest for XXII rich people : Seriously, guys, why to go to Andromeda? BECAUSE IT'S THERE!!! EDIT: it's more likely at the end, Ai regardless of its origins, became a contingency plan for escape the Reapers. I like that idea too, the problem I see is to fit that into the narrative of a new game.It's also possible our characters don't know anything about Reapers and contingency plan for survival of MW species but the Council use it that way or even replicate the Arks' system. I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact it's most likely scenario right now, given the info we have. I'm just trying to figure out writers' thought process behind "we are the explorers". Another case scenario: -We found the blueprints for the construction of an advance ship/Ark capable of an intergalactic journey. We don't know who sent those blueprints, if they are legit or some kind of trick from a group of mercs or something like. -Some people, crazy enough and idealistic scientists, saw in those blueprints a sign of good will from a especies more advanced than us trying to make contact. So maybe the original motivation is that: expanse the limits of what we know, contacting with other people from other Galaxy, etc. -The good news? The blueprints worked! We get to Andromeda safely. -The bad news? Those blueprints were sent to us and to another galaxies for a reason: luring us to Andromeda. The Khet/Remnant/Andromedians-in-power need more slaves. Ok, I'm really, really out of control. I need the new trailer NAW!!!
|
|
Arcian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
Prime Posts: 2473
Prime Likes: 2168
Posts: 928 Likes: 1,354
inherit
174
0
Nov 13, 2024 12:36:41 GMT
1,354
Arcian
928
August 2016
arcian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
GVArcian
GVArcian
2473
2168
|
Post by Arcian on Nov 7, 2016 0:33:10 GMT
Had another of those late night thoughts and hell I have no shame so I'm gonna share... again... The timing of the leaving of the Arc's (if we are going to stay aligned to the MW lore) and the level of secrecy around it will require greater or lesser suspension of 'belief' and/or 'artistic licence'. Now I'm not saying any of that is in any way deal breaking, lets face it we are playing a vid game it isn't the actual history of the Galaxy we're dealing with I just don't want it to jar to harshly. Why do so many people think that something being a video game and/or fictional gives it a free pass to just ignore its own logical rules? Because all narrative games have logical rules. Fantasy games have rules for how magic works, for what their fictional races can and cannot do, how fantasy biology works. Yes, it's not consistent with our own reality, but it is consistent with itself. That's internal logic. That's why we believe magic functions in a game even when we know it is impossible in reality.- When people like myself talk about wanting BioWare to write their games from a perspective of logic, we're not talking of real-life logic, but the internal logic of the Mass Effect franchise that ME1 established way back. Mass Effect is a surprisingly hard sci-fi game, but it still gets a lot of shit wrong - but even so, scientific hardasses like myself are okay with that because those differences with real-life science was established in the very beginning. It doesn't contradict earlier information simply because there is no earlier information for it to contradict. Like the fantasy example, that's fine - they're allowed to take some liberties with real-life science as long as they do it in the beginning and then keep those changes untouched for the rest of the franchise. The problem with Andromeda then is that it contradicts that early information. Based on the internal logic of ME1, which is the standard by which all Mass Effect games must be written, Andromeda violates many of the rules of the franchise regarding spacecraft technology. The writers of ME1 forbade intergalactic travel during the trilogy by the limitations they set on the FTL technology that existed during the time period the trilogy is set. I must also add that it's incredibly distressing that people like you and Sartoz are completely okay with BioWare writing one thing and then contradicting that same thing in later scenes or games. How are we supposed to trust and take the story seriously when it's not consistent? The primary cause of death of the willing suspension of disbelief is broken internal logic. Anything that makes us go "That doesn't make sense" is like stabbing the willing suspension of disbelief in the heart with a knife. "As long as the game is entertaining I don't really care." Yeah but see, that's the thing, playing a narrative-driven game that can't make up its mind about how the universe works is not entertaining. Repeatedly going "That makes no sense" as you play is the antithesis of entertaining. It's like reading a Harry Potter novel that states dragons are immune to magic, only for Harry to later wand a dragon to death with repeated uses of Expelliarmus. What's the deal, JK? You said earlier dragons were immune to magic. "Yeah, but it's more entertaining this way." Why even include the part of dragons being immune to magic then? "Well, back then it made sense, but I ignored it when it became an impediment in my effort to write cool scenes." (Not to riff on JK Rowling's writing or anything, just using her as an example). Yeah, okay, you get cool scenes but now you have immensely annoying and distracting changes occuring mid-story as it's being told. It's poor planning. Would you be cool with poor planning when someone's building your house? Would you be okay with poor planning when your doctors are treating you? Would you be cool with poor planning when restaurant chefs are preparing your meals? "No, but those aren't video games." Alright, let's talk about video games then. Would you be cool with poor planning when the animators are lipsynching dialogue or creating gameplay and cutscene animations? Because I recall a whole lot of outrage over BioWare's poor lipsynching and ridiculous animation errors like Aria gliding around in the Omega DLC. Would you be cool with gameplay designers making certain weapons and abilities crash the game when used? Or damaging abilities that doesn't do damage? Or defensive abilities that doesn't actually protect you? Or guns that doesn't shoot straight where they're supposed to? Of course not. What about level design? Are you cool with invisible holes in the ground that makes you fall through the world and die? Or invisible walls which prevents you from progressing normally through a level? No? Character design? Would you be cool with a human character having a black head and a white body? Or textures being missing? What about models clipping through walls and floors, resulting in jittery collision animations? Of course you're not okay with any of this. So, let me ask you all this: what the fuck makes you people hold the game's writers by a much lower standard than the rest of the development team? Why are people like Mac Walters continually given a free pass to suck at their job while the animators and level designers are derided for poor animations and invisible holes in the ground that can be chalked up to poor Q&A, minimal testing and extremely stringent development time? Writing is not hard compared to programming, yet you're kissing the writers asses when they're writing absolute garbage and shitting on programmers when they're doing the best they can with extremely limited resources.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1122
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:17:55 GMT
Deleted
0
Nov 25, 2024 15:17:55 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 2:00:33 GMT
Had another of those late night thoughts and hell I have no shame so I'm gonna share... again... The timing of the leaving of the Arc's (if we are going to stay aligned to the MW lore) and the level of secrecy around it will require greater or lesser suspension of 'belief' and/or 'artistic licence'. Now I'm not saying any of that is in any way deal breaking, lets face it we are playing a vid game it isn't the actual history of the Galaxy we're dealing with I just don't want it to jar to harshly. Why do so many people think that something being a video game and/or fictional gives it a free pass to just ignore its own logical rules? Because all narrative games have logical rules. Fantasy games have rules for how magic works, for what their fictional races can and cannot do, how fantasy biology works. Yes, it's not consistent with our own reality, but it is consistent with itself. That's internal logic. That's why we believe magic functions in a game even when we know it is impossible in reality.- When people like myself talk about wanting BioWare to write their games from a perspective of logic, we're not talking of real-life logic, but the internal logic of the Mass Effect franchise that ME1 established way back. Mass Effect is a surprisingly hard sci-fi game, but it still gets a lot of shit wrong - but even so, scientific hardasses like myself are okay with that because those differences with real-life science was established in the very beginning. It doesn't contradict earlier information simply because there is no earlier information for it to contradict. Like the fantasy example, that's fine - they're allowed to take some liberties with real-life science as long as they do it in the beginning and then keep those changes untouched for the rest of the franchise. The problem with Andromeda then is that it contradicts that early information. Based on the internal logic of ME1, which is the standard by which all Mass Effect games must be written, Andromeda violates many of the rules of the franchise regarding spacecraft technology. The writers of ME1 forbade intergalactic travel during the trilogy by the limitations they set on the FTL technology that existed during the time period the trilogy is set. I must also add that it's incredibly distressing that people like you and Sartoz are completely okay with BioWare writing one thing and then contradicting that same thing in later scenes or games. How are we supposed to trust and take the story seriously when it's not consistent? The primary cause of death of the willing suspension of disbelief is broken internal logic. Anything that makes us go "That doesn't make sense" is like stabbing the willing suspension of disbelief in the heart with a knife. "As long as the game is entertaining I don't really care." Yeah but see, that's the thing, playing a narrative-driven game that can't make up its mind about how the universe works is not entertaining. Repeatedly going "That makes no sense" as you play is the antithesis of entertaining. It's like reading a Harry Potter novel that states dragons are immune to magic, only for Harry to later wand a dragon to death with repeated uses of Expelliarmus. What's the deal, JK? You said earlier dragons were immune to magic. "Yeah, but it's more entertaining this way." Why even include the part of dragons being immune to magic then? "Well, back then it made sense, but I ignored it when it became an impediment in my effort to write cool scenes." (Not to riff on JK Rowling's writing or anything, just using her as an example). Yeah, okay, you get cool scenes but now you have immensely annoying and distracting changes occuring mid-story as it's being told. It's poor planning. Would you be cool with poor planning when someone's building your house? Would you be okay with poor planning when your doctors are treating you? Would you be cool with poor planning when restaurant chefs are preparing your meals? "No, but those aren't video games." Alright, let's talk about video games then. Would you be cool with poor planning when the animators are lipsynching dialogue or creating gameplay and cutscene animations? Because I recall a whole lot of outrage over BioWare's poor lipsynching and ridiculous animation errors like Aria gliding around in the Omega DLC. Would you be cool with gameplay designers making certain weapons and abilities crash the game when used? Or damaging abilities that doesn't do damage? Or defensive abilities that doesn't actually protect you? Or guns that doesn't shoot straight where they're supposed to? Of course not. What about level design? Are you cool with invisible holes in the ground that makes you fall through the world and die? Or invisible walls which prevents you from progressing normally through a level? No? Character design? Would you be cool with a human character having a black head and a white body? Or textures being missing? What about models clipping through walls and floors, resulting in jittery collision animations? Of course you're not okay with any of this. So, let me ask you all this: what the fuck makes you people hold the game's writers by a much lower standard than the rest of the development team? Why are people like Mac Walters continually given a free pass to suck at their job while the animators and level designers are derided for poor animations and invisible holes in the ground that can be chalked up to poor Q&A, minimal testing and extremely stringent development time? Writing is not hard compared to programming, yet you're kissing the writers asses when they're writing absolute garbage and shitting on programmers when they're doing the best they can with extremely limited resources. How does wanting to just wait to see what Bioware actually writes fit in here?... because that's where I'm at. I don't really understand people who insist that Bioware is breaking with their lore before they can actually know what Bioware has written in ME:A. In short, I see a lot of "illogic" in their supposed logic, too. People criticizing a game for breaking with lore after it's released is one thing... people totally panning it from the moment it was announced based on what they speculate will be written is something completely different. The former is reasonable, the latter isn't really. I do see a lot of people who seem to want to put Bioware in such an impossible "box" with this that ME:A won't get released at all... and I'd rather have a video game that stretches some aspects of the lore than no game at all. I also see people who insist on assuming that the small group of people we met during the ME Trilogy had to know absolutely everything that was going on in the entire galaxy... every bit of technology in development (whether that technology was being developed in secret or not).
|
|
ddraigcoch123
N2
Looking for the shiny
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: ddraigcoch123
Posts: 93 Likes: 126
inherit
602
0
126
ddraigcoch123
Looking for the shiny
93
August 2016
ddraigcoch123
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
ddraigcoch123
|
Post by ddraigcoch123 on Nov 7, 2016 2:31:48 GMT
Had another of those late night thoughts and hell I have no shame so I'm gonna share... again... The timing of the leaving of the Arc's (if we are going to stay aligned to the MW lore) and the level of secrecy around it will require greater or lesser suspension of 'belief' and/or 'artistic licence'. Now I'm not saying any of that is in any way deal breaking, lets face it we are playing a vid game it isn't the actual history of the Galaxy we're dealing with I just don't want it to jar to harshly. Why do so many people think that something being a video game and/or fictional gives it a free pass to just ignore its own logical rules? Because all narrative games have logical rules. Fantasy games have rules for how magic works, for what their fictional races can and cannot do, how fantasy biology works. Yes, it's not consistent with our own reality, but it is consistent with itself. That's internal logic. That's why we believe magic functions in a game even when we know it is impossible in reality.- When people like myself talk about wanting BioWare to write their games from a perspective of logic, we're not talking of real-life logic, but the internal logic of the Mass Effect franchise that ME1 established way back. Mass Effect is a surprisingly hard sci-fi game, but it still gets a lot of shit wrong - but even so, scientific hardasses like myself are okay with that because those differences with real-life science was established in the very beginning. It doesn't contradict earlier information simply because there is no earlier information for it to contradict. Like the fantasy example, that's fine - they're allowed to take some liberties with real-life science as long as they do it in the beginning and then keep those changes untouched for the rest of the franchise. The problem with Andromeda then is that it contradicts that early information. Based on the internal logic of ME1, which is the standard by which all Mass Effect games must be written, Andromeda violates many of the rules of the franchise regarding spacecraft technology. The writers of ME1 forbade intergalactic travel during the trilogy by the limitations they set on the FTL technology that existed during the time period the trilogy is set. I must also add that it's incredibly distressing that people like you and Sartoz are completely okay with BioWare writing one thing and then contradicting that same thing in later scenes or games. How are we supposed to trust and take the story seriously when it's not consistent? The primary cause of death of the willing suspension of disbelief is broken internal logic. Anything that makes us go "That doesn't make sense" is like stabbing the willing suspension of disbelief in the heart with a knife. "As long as the game is entertaining I don't really care." Yeah but see, that's the thing, playing a narrative-driven game that can't make up its mind about how the universe works is not entertaining. Repeatedly going "That makes no sense" as you play is the antithesis of entertaining. It's like reading a Harry Potter novel that states dragons are immune to magic, only for Harry to later wand a dragon to death with repeated uses of Expelliarmus. What's the deal, JK? You said earlier dragons were immune to magic. "Yeah, but it's more entertaining this way." Why even include the part of dragons being immune to magic then? "Well, back then it made sense, but I ignored it when it became an impediment in my effort to write cool scenes." (Not to riff on JK Rowling's writing or anything, just using her as an example). Yeah, okay, you get cool scenes but now you have immensely annoying and distracting changes occuring mid-story as it's being told. It's poor planning. Would you be cool with poor planning when someone's building your house? Would you be okay with poor planning when your doctors are treating you? Would you be cool with poor planning when restaurant chefs are preparing your meals? "No, but those aren't video games." Alright, let's talk about video games then. Would you be cool with poor planning when the animators are lipsynching dialogue or creating gameplay and cutscene animations? Because I recall a whole lot of outrage over BioWare's poor lipsynching and ridiculous animation errors like Aria gliding around in the Omega DLC. Would you be cool with gameplay designers making certain weapons and abilities crash the game when used? Or damaging abilities that doesn't do damage? Or defensive abilities that doesn't actually protect you? Or guns that doesn't shoot straight where they're supposed to? Of course not. What about level design? Are you cool with invisible holes in the ground that makes you fall through the world and die? Or invisible walls which prevents you from progressing normally through a level? No? Character design? Would you be cool with a human character having a black head and a white body? Or textures being missing? What about models clipping through walls and floors, resulting in jittery collision animations? Of course you're not okay with any of this. So, let me ask you all this: what the fuck makes you people hold the game's writers by a much lower standard than the rest of the development team? Why are people like Mac Walters continually given a free pass to suck at their job while the animators and level designers are derided for poor animations and invisible holes in the ground that can be chalked up to poor Q&A, minimal testing and extremely stringent development time? Writing is not hard compared to programming, yet you're kissing the writers asses when they're writing absolute garbage and shitting on programmers when they're doing the best they can with extremely limited resources. Well I'm not sure I actually said I would be ok with "...you and Sartoz are completely okay with BioWare writing one thing and then contradicting that same thing in later scenes or games. How are we supposed to trust and take the story seriously when it's not consistent? The primary cause of death of the willing suspension of disbelief is broken internal logic. Anything that makes us go "That doesn't make sense" is like stabbing the willing suspension of disbelief in the heart with a knife." I actually said was that 'if' getting us to Andromeda included 'some' artistic license I would be ok with that as long as it didn't 'jar' to badly So not sure how you extrapolated that statement to me being happy with 'contradictions in later scenes' I totally believe that in game 'logic' and 'lore' should be kept to but we are talking about a bridge between one 'story' to another which could take place at any time before the end of ME3 and possibly before the beginning of ME3 And I honestly think your being a little dramatic with some of the examples you give because I'm ok giving the writers a wide path to get us to Andromeda. Some of that was about shoddy game design as in your textures missing and poor animations and nothing to do with story or writing Seriously lets not go into full catastrophe mode until we have evidence to fuel the flames
|
|