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Post by TheInvoker on Sept 4, 2024 9:45:17 GMT
Yeah, I don't think this gameplay video did much in terms of alleviating the "too few abilities" concern, for a mage, especially. Still, I dig the "Fade Step"/Blnk//Dodge (though DAI's was cooler - this looks more like MEA's biotic dodge) and the block/shield magical bubble. We need a mage "expert" ( somebody who really enjoys mage gameplay) to give us a better sense of what to expect. Combat in this video was rather disappointing. From what I remember, Corinne is a fan of the mage class, but she spent more time trying to setup/explain/show stuff here instead of kill things ASAP. Like at ~6:13. she has her heavy charged attack, full mana, ultimate ready and all spells available and she move around while talking for like 10-15 seconds. Only dodging and doing like one normal staff attack. Eventually, she mention the heavy charged attack and use it...and it basically one shot the group ganking her. Basicallty, it was a great video of what not to do: trying to setup for the perfect usage of a feature while explaining what it is. i went to that point and he says: "mage is primarly a ranged attacker but when surrounded by enemies (darkspawn in that case), i have to use a variety of strategies"
My thoughts
1) not much variety 2) kiting is not the best thing to do if you want to make the gameplay to be appealing 3) where is the warrior taunting enemies? 4) where is a big CC to stop enemies and keep attacking from distance? like a pull of the abyss or a static cage to trap enemies inside.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 4, 2024 9:52:35 GMT
I'd be pretty surprised if static cage wasn't an ability in the electric tree, it's one of the dragon age staples. Progression is being revealed tomorrow though, supposedly, so we'll find out then.
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Post by ergates on Sept 4, 2024 9:53:32 GMT
I admit that I've not read 11 pages of comments on this thread, at work so can't slack off too long - so apologies if it was answered elsewhere, but how 'spoilerish' is this video?
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Post by Reznore on Sept 4, 2024 9:55:10 GMT
I admit that I've not read 11 pages of comments on this thread, at work so can't slack off too long - so apologies if it was answered elsewhere, but how 'spoilerish' is this video? It's very spoilery about a big thing that happens in game, like quite important main quest stuff.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 4, 2024 9:55:24 GMT
It feels sloppy and weird from a marketing standpoint I 100% agree. The marketing is strange.
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 4, 2024 9:58:19 GMT
-I see what people mean about the stiffness of NPCs. I Think BG3 really spoiled us. I think this is a problem of Frostbite and not of BG3 spoilt us. I think in the new ME on a different engin it will get better. Animation quality has nothing to do with the graphics engine, in this case Frostbite. Models and animations are usually created using third party tools like 3ds Max or Maya and then exported to the graphics engine. If the looks and animations aren't good it's all on the art department, it's not a software failure of some kind.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 4, 2024 10:00:41 GMT
and companion AI was fine for that level. We know nothing of the companion AI so far. And i am not sure we can tell if the tactical aspect is needed. But Corrine said the tactic is needed on higher difficulties. Take it as you will.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 4, 2024 10:02:21 GMT
At 9:12, I saw qunari rook walk through Harding like she was a ghost. It's a minor issue, but I'd honestly take it instead of getting perma-stuck somewhere because the AI glitched and won't move out of the way.
DA4 has an AI? Specifically, a combat AI? ... doubt it very much.
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Post by Little Bengel on Sept 4, 2024 10:08:44 GMT
Is this a bad quality video or the game is just slightly blurry ? The nicest thing I can say about Youtube's video compression is that it isn't very flattering to the videos themselves.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 4, 2024 10:13:11 GMT
BG3 had a different issue in that all the NPCs had the same five faces and seemingly the same five haircuts, which was distracting in its own right. It's weird though because this is the first time I'm noticing janky animation, even with Rook. I went back and re-watched the original level one gameplay video and Rook moved and spoke fine there. There was one animation where he broke some red lyrium that looked weightless, but that was the only issue I noted. I'm not sure if it indicates issues with rigging for qunari model or if this is later game where it's less polished or what. I would say, the first gameplay show of was extra polished. In the second their wasn't so much talking.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 4, 2024 10:13:58 GMT
Yeah youtube compression issues are notorious. People are also saying they played on PS5 which might've been a factor, not sure.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 4, 2024 10:21:04 GMT
I think this is a problem of Frostbite and not of BG3 spoilt us. I think in the new ME on a different engin it will get better. Animation quality has nothing to do with the graphics engine, in this case Frostbite. Models and animations are usually created using third party tools like 3ds Max or Maya and then exported to the graphics engine. If the looks and animations aren't good it's all on the art department, it's not a software failure of some kind. Thank you good to know. I don't know that. It is sad because DAI, MEA and DA:TV facial animation look similar but not the same. Why do they take the same way, if fans makes bad memes of it.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2024 10:22:07 GMT
Do remember our mutual theory in the CTC and where Emmirch was sitting in regards to the 'bingo card' and thus we've already sort of connected Elgar'nan with Emmrich already anyways so I suppose it wouldn't be much of a stretch to then relate that to the entirety of the Mortaltassi.
Also in this vein to we are seeing Ghil'nain pop up or imagery we are at least assume is associted with her in a lot of areas. Antiva thanks to her tenticles being in Treviso...again presumably. We also have her now being confirmed to be involved with the Warden Plot. And then a lot of weird stuff is happening in Rivain which would be safe to say is hers...now we don't know it for sure just imagery that looks awfully suspcious. So that would just leave Tevinter and Nevarra for Elgar'nan....and we have already apparently seen the Dread Wolf doing battle with a dragon with Elgar'nan's horn pattern in Minrathous in the reveal trailer.
I do kind of maintain that Ghil is going to be the much more 'mad' threat of the two and Elgar'nan is going to be intelligent and reasoning. Remember also the character speaking at the end of the 2023 trailer: "All will know the peace and comfort of my reign." We were speculating at the time it might be Elgar'nan (even though we didn't know for certain the gods would be returning back then) because it sounded like the sort of thing he might say and it finished with the rumble of a dragon followed by Fen'Harel howling (presumably in challenge or warning). At the time we had a suspicion that there might be a double Blight with two Old Gods emerging and if they were linked to the Evanuris then Lusacan might well be the alter ego, or high priest, of Elgar'nan. It seems we were pretty much spot on with the identity of one of the antagonists and even back then some people were suggesting Ghil as the other, because of the amount she had featured in codices, etc.
I'm still running with the idea that as the gods are slain (their OG equivalent) the power either returns to them, making them stronger but more vulnerable to being permanently killed, or it passes to the surviving Evanuris, in which case we eventually face one god powered by six others as well as his own magic.
Notice also that they mentioned how we can see scenes from Fen'Harel's rebellion as we travel through the Crossroads. I assume that means more than just murals but actual cut scenes. If so that scene in the earlier trailer with Fen'Harel attacking a dragon could be from that earlier period rather than something that occurs later in the game in the present. I mean sure its possible but would past Minrathous look that much like current day Minrathous? Doubt it. -I see what people mean about the stiffness of NPCs. I Think BG3 really spoiled us. I think this is a problem of Frostbite and not of BG3 spoilt us. I think in the new ME on a different engin it will get better. Character animation and movement looked fine in Inquisition which was on Frostbite. Also in Andromeda even if it took them a few patches to get there. It might be a little concerning we're so close to launch and its like this but its...never exactly been a big deal to me in the first place and...well even in Andromeda we saw massive improvements (in this regard anyways) in a pretty short time so pretty sure it will be fine, eventually. From what I remember, Corinne is a fan of the mage class, but she spent more time trying to setup/explain/show stuff here instead of kill things ASAP. Like at ~6:13. she has her heavy charged attack, full mana, ultimate ready and all spells available and she move around while talking for like 10-15 seconds. Only dodging and doing like one normal staff attack. Eventually, she mention the heavy charged attack and use it...and it basically one shot the group ganking her. Basicallty, it was a great video of what not to do: trying to setup for the perfect usage of a feature while explaining what it is. i went to that point and he says: "mage is primarly a ranged attacker but when surrounded by enemies (darkspawn in that case), i have to use a variety of strategies"
My thoughts
1) not much variety 2) kiting is not the best thing to do if you want to make the gameplay to be appealing 3) where is the warrior taunting enemies? 4) where is a big CC to stop enemies and keep attacking from distance? like a pull of the abys or a static cage to trap enemies inside.
1. We haven't really seen that many combat encounters yet but the moment where Corinne toggled both the companions to take on that Overwatch Spawn which then she proceeded to knock...it off the ledge. Pretty much any deliberate usage of abilities or attacks can be seen as tactics. 3. No Warriors in the demo but we did see taunt get mentioned in the warrior deep dive. Haven't really seen it in action too much, probably, but really if its in there how different could it be? 4. They have talked about such things in other interviews and arcs, we also did see some examples of that kind of thing in the last one...(bunch of Spawn got frozen then Lucanis and Rook combined to wipe out said group) I admit that I've not read 11 pages of comments on this thread, at work so can't slack off too long - so apologies if it was answered elsewhere, but how 'spoilerish' is this video? Not very. Just one thing that was kind of eyebrow raising but...just if you have been paying the least bit of attention even that wasn't that big.
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Sept 4, 2024 10:34:00 GMT
1. We haven't really seen that many combat encounters yet but the moment where Corinne toggled both the companions to take on that Overwatch Spawn which then she proceeded to knock...it off the ledge. Pretty much any deliberate usage of abilities or attacks can be seen as tactics. 3. No Warriors in the demo but we did see taunt get mentioned in the warrior deep dive. Haven't really seen it in action too much, probably, but really if its in there how different could it be? 4. They have talked about such things in other interviews and arcs, we also did see some examples of that kind of thing in the last one...(bunch of Spawn got frozen then Lucanis and Rook combined to wipe out said group) he said "i use variety etc etc..." in this video. i don't care about other videos.
And again you mention something that happened in a different video. it was also not an ability but a rune that froze enemies and for what i saw, since it was a warrior who stays close to enemies, it froze enemeis around him that is different from using a long range CC to keep enemies away from you. that rune was good for a warrior, but i wouldn't pick it for a ranged character.
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TheInvoker
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Post by TheInvoker on Sept 4, 2024 10:36:23 GMT
Progression is being revealed tomorrow though, supposedly, so we'll find out then. do you mean skill trees revelead? or what happens in a level up? or what?
source?
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Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2024 10:39:07 GMT
1. We haven't really seen that many combat encounters yet but the moment where Corinne toggled both the companions to take on that Overwatch Spawn which then she proceeded to knock...it off the ledge. Pretty much any deliberate usage of abilities or attacks can be seen as tactics. 3. No Warriors in the demo but we did see taunt get mentioned in the warrior deep dive. Haven't really seen it in action too much, probably, but really if its in there how different could it be? 4. They have talked about such things in other interviews and arcs, we also did see some examples of that kind of thing in the last one...(bunch of Spawn got frozen then Lucanis and Rook combined to wipe out said group) he said "i use variety etc etc..." in this video. i don't care about other videos.
And again you mention something that happened in a different video. it was also not an ability but a rune that froze enemies and for what i saw, since it was a warrior who stays close to enemies, it froze enemeis around him that is different from using a long range CC to keep enemies away from you. that rune was good for a warrior, but i wouldn't pick it for a ranged character.
This marketing campaign doesen't happen in a vaccuum. It is very illogical to ignore previous marketing to try and make a point or say that things aren't there when they very clearly are.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 4, 2024 10:45:05 GMT
Progression is being revealed tomorrow though, supposedly, so we'll find out then. do you mean skill trees revelead? or what happens in a level up? or what?
source?
Hrungr posted a Mike Gamble tweet about it.
Michael Gamble @gamblemike Hey I heard there was a deep dive into Veilguard progression systems coming tomorrow morning. It’s about 10 mins in total with a blog.
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Post by jennica on Sept 4, 2024 11:13:29 GMT
Ngl, the way they decided to showcase mage was really weird. In Q&A Corinne said that it's possible to play without a tank in your team, but you need to plan for it and they clearly didn't in the the video. They even had Neve in the party but i don't think they used her time slow ability, which was mentioned in Q&A? They also didn't use any runes, which is very odd. Like, Corinne (i think it was her who played) spent 60% of the time dodging and trying to survive rather than attacking the enemies. Another thing is that the Darkspawn is resistance to necro damage, so Bioware decided to bring Rook who dealt necro damage for the most part Honestly, after the warrior showcase which was really good, i'm completely baffled by this one.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 4, 2024 11:22:10 GMT
Ngl, the way they decided to showcase mage was really weird. In Q&A Corinne said that it's possible to play without a tank in your team, but you need to plan for it and they clearly didn't in the the video. They even had Neve in the party but i don't think they used her time slow ability, which was mentioned in Q&A? They also didn't use any runes, which is very odd. Like, Corinne (i think it was her who played) spent 60% of the time dodging and trying to survive rather than attacking the enemies. Another thing is that the Darkspawn is resistance to necro damage, so Bioware decided to bring Rook who dealt necro damage for the most part Honestly, after the warrior showcase which was really good, i'm completely baffled by this one. Yeah, I too am confused by a lot choices here. First of all, even in past game it was possible to run parties entirely of one class, especially with mage since Knight Enchanter was ridiculous, so not sure why they're so determined to show that off. But also, having to talk and answer questions while playing is distracting, which is also going to make gameplay look even worse.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2024 11:26:27 GMT
Ngl, the way they decided to showcase mage was really weird. In Q&A Corinne said that it's possible to play without a tank in your team, but you need to plan for it and they clearly didn't in the the video. They even had Neve in the party but i don't think they used her time slow ability, which was mentioned in Q&A? They also didn't use any runes, which is very odd. Like, Corinne (i think it was her who played) spent 60% of the time dodging and trying to survive rather than attacking the enemies. Another thing is that the Darkspawn is resistance to necro damage, so Bioware decided to bring Rook who dealt necro damage for the most part Honestly, after the warrior showcase which was really good, i'm completely baffled by this one. I do half wonder how much of this might have been deliberate. Given that one of the objectives here was to clearly show off that companions could revive you even after you died. Epler did make the comment of 'look at how dangerous this area is!' to...which I am sure it is but I also got the feeling, especially since Corinne's Rook was downed, that they were playing on a lesser difficulty to so they could talk and give commentary while playing the game. Not everyone is good at that believe me. So I think they basically went unoptomized so they could show off things that they wanted to while also still playing on an easy difficulty...which actually did look pretty easy given how close Corinne was to death a lot of times but was finished off just once. Edit: Plus keep in mind a lot of people have been asking given the new systems and companion synergies just how much you have to min/ max with this game in order to achieve results and the obvious answer is not alot. They deliberatley didn't optomize themselves and didn't have an optomized party set up and didn't take tactical options we've already seen and seen explained just to show what is possible with this game, at least on lower difficulties.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 4, 2024 11:34:15 GMT
which actually did look pretty easy given how close Corinne was to death a lot of times but was finished off just once. I'm pretty sure she was playing with the "no death setting" and then removed it with a dev keybind to show what happens when downed. A common feature in dev presentation like these. We can also tell that they used the dev command to bring themselves to that mission since the Crossroad were not explored and the mission itself said you could fast travel to the destination but the character didn't have the travel point unlocked (we see the unlock message popup).
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Post by theascendent on Sept 4, 2024 11:42:26 GMT
Do you think that spirit called Caretaker is related to the myth of the ferryman that the first Archon of Tevinter Darinius had as a dream?
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2024 11:52:31 GMT
Do you think that spirit called Caretaker is related to the myth of the ferryman that the first Archon of Tevinter Darinius had as a dream? Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Even Calpernia's story was called Paying the Ferryman. I've never been quite sure why he was called the Ferryman, although he did appear on the shore of Vyrantium as a baby in a basket (Moses like) and is frequently depicted with a Ferryman's pole. Perhaps we will now actually learn why. I also note that he was raised in the Temple of Dumat in Vyrantium and was able to charm animals that it was believed he used as spies. He is also frequently depicted with a Crow or a Raven on his shoulder. Tell me all these facts are just coincidences when it comes to where we have seen much of the action in Tevinter Nights and the Missing.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Sept 4, 2024 12:06:14 GMT
Ah... you mean the text? That's the new style banter? .... I was expecting voices... as in the past.
I don't think it will be like that. They have the VA why not using them Wouldn't make sense. So yes i think it will be voiced in the endprodukt we get.
The yewre talking ov remos tof it s ow edidn' thear i tthat's m ytheory ther but it did look like Neve and Hardin gwere talking t oone another a ttimes as they had th esubtitles on.
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Sept 19, 2024 17:49:05 GMT
29,853
gervaise21
12,570
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2024 12:11:58 GMT
Sorry but I just couldn't resist posting this. The words are sort of apt and if the dog howling was a wolf :
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