andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by andorvex on Dec 2, 2024 17:46:46 GMT
Hey team, the term "Evanuris" exists! lol, doesn’t every rpg have companions talking about their feelings? I think this is a fair counterargument. I think many of the things people complain about when it comes to the Veilguard are things that definitely exist in other games, even in other Bioware games. But I think it's a matter of how much is too much or too little
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 2, 2024 18:45:35 GMT
One thing I have found fascinating is seeing just how fractured the DA fan base is. In particular, it's been a suprise to find that so many see Inquisition as their favourite DA game, and use Inquisition as a point of reference to view the rot that's occurred with DAV. When, in my mind, a lot of the rot started with DAI, with the lukewarm conclusion to the mage-templar story, along with the weak depiction of Orlais. At least DAV had some meat on the bones plot wise.
No hate particularly. I do find it quite cool that a fan base can split and find their own favourite things. Veilguard will probably have it's dedicated fan base in a few years.
And Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't exactly game of thrones, but one conversation with Vivienne probably had more political intrigue compared to all of Veilguard. So there's that.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 2, 2024 18:49:44 GMT
One thing I have found fascinating is seeing just how fractured the DA fan base is. In particular, it's been a suprise to find that so many see Inquisition as their favourite DA game, and use Inquisition as a point of reference to view the rot that's occurred with DAV. When, in my mind, a lot of the rot started with DAI, with the lukewarm conclusion to the mage-templar story, along with the weak depiction of Orlais. At least DAV had some meat on the bones plot wise. No hate particularly. I do find it quite cool that a fan base can split and find their own favourite things. Veilguard will probably have it's dedicated fan base in a few years. And Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't exactly game of thrones, but one conversation with Vivienne probably had more political intrigue compared to all of Veilguard. So there's that. yeah I agree with this. As much as I love Inquisition how they designed its plot did Veilguard no favors because everything was *epic*.
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Anaan
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Anaan on Dec 3, 2024 0:28:22 GMT
Bellara has some moments, but it's not poor writing. Her writer wrote into her his own experiences with having ADHD. As the spouse of someone with ADHD, I think he did an incredible job. The apparent flightiness; the somewhat non sequitor thought processes and things sometimes coming out of left field; and most of all the constant self-doubt and "I gotta be better" expressions from Bellara -- it's very true to life. I wish more people had the experience to see how well she's actually written, and to appreciate her personality. As someone with ADHD, her depiction felt painfully accurate to me. When she talked about her brother or S.O. grounding her, I knew exactly how she felt given my own spouse does the exact same thing. It was lovely to see in a game, and a nice shift from obnoxious stereotypes found elsewhere.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2024 0:33:28 GMT
Bellara has some moments, but it's not poor writing. Her writer wrote into her his own experiences with having ADHD. As the spouse of someone with ADHD, I think he did an incredible job. The apparent flightiness; the somewhat non sequitor thought processes and things sometimes coming out of left field; and most of all the constant self-doubt and "I gotta be better" expressions from Bellara -- it's very true to life. I wish more people had the experience to see how well she's actually written, and to appreciate her personality. As someone with ADHD, her depiction felt painfully accurate to me. When she talked about her brother or S.O. grounding her, I knew exactly how she felt given my own spouse does the exact same thing. It was lovely to see in a game, and a nice shift from obnoxious stereotypes found elsewhere. Think I got to that scene today, pretty sure, and during a lot of it just couldn't help but look over at the wife, since...well I'm not exactly sure since its been awhile but think we both qualify as having that, so that scene did really relate. The romance may lack in certain areas and if this is the last scene...well her and Rook haven't even kissed yet! But I must say there is something so wholesome about it.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 3, 2024 0:38:12 GMT
I'm finishing my second playthrough. As is typical, I enjoyed it more than the first. The game has a lot to offer players like me who enjoy character building and optimization. My Qunari Grey Warden Champion felt very different, and even more powerful, than my Mourn Watch Human Spellblade. A second full playthrough reaffirmed my belief that 90% of any "cheesy dialogue" is squarely on Harding. Sometimes it is legitimately a cheesily written line, often it's Ali Hillis' facepalm worthy delivery. Think about how goofy she often sounds as Liara T'Soni. At least in MET we can say, "She's an alien." Harding is absolutely the weak link. It's bad enough that I merely tolerate her, at this point. Bellara has some moments, but it's not poor writing. Her writer wrote into her his own experiences with having ADHD. As the spouse of someone with ADHD, I think he did an incredible job. The apparent flightiness; the somewhat non sequitor thought processes and things sometimes coming out of left field; and most of all the constant self-doubt and "I gotta be better" expressions from Bellara -- it's very true to life. I wish more people had the experience to see how well she's actually written, and to appreciate her personality. Taash's "gender stuff" (their term) is generally too blunt. I wish Weekes had been given/taken feedback to frame this in ways that blended more believably with the setting. Maybe he wanted it to be stark and painfully blunt. If so, I think it was a mistake. There are plenty of people like me who don't mind the story arc, but find the writing ham-fisted. Many are less open-minded and far less charitable. Your game already has a target on it. It didn't need coarse writing to tilt the undecided gamers away from it. The game isn't perfect, but it's really good. I do wish we could've had this fun gameplay paired with the deeper roleplaying of earlier games. I want more control of my protagonist and story than I'm given in this game and its twin, Mass Effect Andromeda. Veilguard is better than Andromeda, but it's still way too light on roleplaying for my tastes. Even with the gripes I have, I enjoy the game a lot. I'll probably be starting my third playthrough tomorrow, this time playing an Elf Veil Ranger. How dare you insult Harding like that! She’s beautiful!
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2024 0:42:26 GMT
I'm finishing my second playthrough. As is typical, I enjoyed it more than the first. The game has a lot to offer players like me who enjoy character building and optimization. My Qunari Grey Warden Champion felt very different, and even more powerful, than my Mourn Watch Human Spellblade. A second full playthrough reaffirmed my belief that 90% of any "cheesy dialogue" is squarely on Harding. Sometimes it is legitimately a cheesily written line, often it's Ali Hillis' facepalm worthy delivery. Think about how goofy she often sounds as Liara T'Soni. At least in MET we can say, "She's an alien." Harding is absolutely the weak link. It's bad enough that I merely tolerate her, at this point. Bellara has some moments, but it's not poor writing. Her writer wrote into her his own experiences with having ADHD. As the spouse of someone with ADHD, I think he did an incredible job. The apparent flightiness; the somewhat non sequitor thought processes and things sometimes coming out of left field; and most of all the constant self-doubt and "I gotta be better" expressions from Bellara -- it's very true to life. I wish more people had the experience to see how well she's actually written, and to appreciate her personality. Taash's "gender stuff" (their term) is generally too blunt. I wish Weekes had been given/taken feedback to frame this in ways that blended more believably with the setting. Maybe he wanted it to be stark and painfully blunt. If so, I think it was a mistake. There are plenty of people like me who don't mind the story arc, but find the writing ham-fisted. Many are less open-minded and far less charitable. Your game already has a target on it. It didn't need coarse writing to tilt the undecided gamers away from it. The game isn't perfect, but it's really good. I do wish we could've had this fun gameplay paired with the deeper roleplaying of earlier games. I want more control of my protagonist and story than I'm given in this game and its twin, Mass Effect Andromeda. Veilguard is better than Andromeda, but it's still way too light on roleplaying for my tastes. Even with the gripes I have, I enjoy the game a lot. I'll probably be starting my third playthrough tomorrow, this time playing an Elf Veil Ranger. How dare you insult Harding like that! She’s beautiful! Not sure if you'll like my take either but reading through that post I got a severe case of the 'huh', for me Harding does have her writing problems in this but honestly Ali Hillis's VA goes a long way in smoothing it out. As much as I don't like Liara she is killing it as Harding. And honestly Harding has started to become more of a main stay in my later party and trying to test out certain things with her. Ugh just wish I could take everyone out all the time.
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Post by Reznore on Dec 3, 2024 7:36:34 GMT
Hey team, the term "Evanuris" exists! lol, doesn’t every rpg have companions talking about their feelings? Past DA companions did talk about their fees fees, remember Alistair going "Duncan" "oh Duncan" "Duncan was a great man" and you were pretending to care because you met duncan 2 min and he was kind of stabby happy. But they weren't just talking about their feelings. They also had opinions about the world they lived in. They also had certain goals fitting their personalities. Morrigan hated circle mages, and her goal was looking after ancient power because she feared being powerless. Alistair had a strong moral compass, he saw the wardens with rose tainted glasses, and he hated Loghain. Him being a follower rather than a leader meant you had to push him toward certain goals . Sten was qunari living by the qun. He decided fighting the Blight was his only possible redemption in the eye of the Qun. Wynne was a circle mages, wasn't fond of extreme. She was willing to submit herself to a harsh system for the greater good. She expect the same of others. Etc... Veilguard. Well you can't really clash with your companions. Their moral compass is good but not that good because they got issues more important than the folks out there dying from the Blight, Venatori, Antaam, Evanuris. You always have companions quests ofc but in this game, the companions spells out directly their heart aren't in it because personal issues. It's not even interesting character trait like Isa ditching you during a Qunari riot (she's partly responsible for) because she's selfish and always looking for number one. You could ditch Sera because she was too childish for the Inquisition. Here you only have "your feelings are valid, companions." I think Rook can have one conflict over the choice of city. And that's it? I don't even think companions have low rep/rival scene with Rook. Something we had in DAO, DA2, DAI with multiple companions.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 3, 2024 11:59:55 GMT
So yeah just made a long arse post in the What did you do today thread and decided to tackle this one first in my round up that I might be trying to do with my game being finished at all. Just changed my vote from 4 out of 5 to 5 out of 5. Amazing game.
And as a wrap up, probably won't be my last post in here, but I have been using this thread as my prime means of doing so...but a few others as well...of doing a running review. And its been fun. THere have been frustrating moments but getting to talk about this game with you all and debate its merits has always been a pretty great experience and has been a lot of fun. So as I move from 'playing' the game to 'played' the game must say in a way...this has been fun. And I am sure I will continue to run into you out there on the boards.
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Post by hookntackle on Dec 3, 2024 12:36:31 GMT
I've said this before, but every game as an artform is a product of its time. That is neither here nor there, it's simply what happens. People dig certain stuff, there's trends yes, and damn publishers for wanting as much money as possible - you can list up the entire funnel of events, at the end it's going to be one of the million other big and small testaments of its era.
I am being SUPER silly-blunt and subjective here, but just as an illustration: DAO is LOTR aftershock, early 2000s renaissance of high fantasy, DA2 is "brainy quippy campy feel good with murder Joss Whedon dramas are cool on TV", DAI is probably one of the best examples of literally the state of the gaming industry ten years ago with all the crafting, "I'll be damned if the world isn't open af" and collectibles bloat you can find; DAV is the bootcamp for this new world where any and all human traits have names, flag and legion, to spice up the escalating judgment battle royale on the Interwebs.
That is to say, I think the point "they are just catering to sign of the times XYZ" (by some) is eternally moot, because this is the way of expressing ourselves we are going to end up at, whether we like it or not.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 3, 2024 14:29:17 GMT
So yeah just made a long arse post in the What did you do today thread and decided to tackle this one first in my round up that I might be trying to do with my game being finished at all. Just changed my vote from 4 out of 5 to 5 out of 5. Amazing game. And as a wrap up, probably won't be my last post in here, but I have been using this thread as my prime means of doing so...but a few others as well...of doing a running review. And its been fun. THere have been frustrating moments but getting to talk about this game with you all and debate its merits has always been a pretty great experience and has been a lot of fun. So as I move from 'playing' the game to 'played' the game must say in a way...this has been fun. And I am sure I will continue to run into you out there on the boards. Yeah that's the main reason why I'v estayed activ earound her ethroug hm yinitial playthrough's really as I wanted to discus show I was feeling a sI went through them. But no wthat I'v edon em yinitial playthrough's on Xbox and PC I thin kI'll b efocusin gmoer on playing than posting. As I keep promising mysel ftha tnow tha tVeilguard is out I' dg odar ks oI can focu son playing an denjoying it and m yothe rgames so I can clea rsom eo fm ybacklo gpotentially. I still think I wantt odo that especiall ynow tha tI hav emy nwe PC I wantto put i tthrough it's paces some more wi thsom eof m yother games. I will as ythat I was playing ME2 on th eLegendary Edition yesterday and I dare as yit runs even better than m yol dcomputer it's loadin gan drunnin gvery smooth. If Andromeda runs as smooth as this it's somehing t olook forward to. But yeah m ycomputer baerl ybreaking a swea trunning the LE a smy graphic scard didn' teven need t oturnit' sfan son it did for Veilguard but with th estrand hai rand cloth physics and stuff it probabl yneeded to. I don' tknow whethe rit'll need t ofo rDAI or Andromeda bu tI kno wi tcranks them on for th enwe er Fifa/FC games given tha thas an dclot hphysics.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 3, 2024 19:32:30 GMT
Well you can't really clash with your companions. Their moral compass is good but not that good because they got issues more important than the folks out there dying from the Blight, Venatori, Antaam, Evanuris. You always have companions quests ofc but in this game, the companions spells out directly their heart aren't in it because personal issues. I don't think "moral compass" is a sensible framing for this mechanic. None of them are voluntarily choosing subpar performance.
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 13,103 Likes: 21,182
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 4, 2024 0:09:43 GMT
How dare you insult Harding like that! She’s beautiful! Not sure if you'll like my take either but reading through that post I got a severe case of the 'huh', for me Harding does have her writing problems in this but honestly Ali Hillis's VA goes a long way in smoothing it out. As much as I don't like Liara she is killing it as Harding. And honestly Harding has started to become more of a main stay in my later party and trying to test out certain things with her. Ugh just wish I could take everyone out all the time. Yeah I onl yascrificed Harding in my playthrou ghbecaus eI was romancin gDavrin plus I want3ed him fo rhis tauntin gtalents. Granted I could hav eused Taas ho rmad ed owithout that as in the end I don' tthink I used Davrin's taun tmuch given th eenemies didn' tconcentrate on me much in the final levels on m yPC run I did use Davrin fo rhis attacks with Assan but no tfo rtaunting.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by andorvex on Dec 4, 2024 12:04:37 GMT
Well you can't really clash with your companions. Their moral compass is good but not that good because they got issues more important than the folks out there dying from the Blight, Venatori, Antaam, Evanuris. You always have companions quests ofc but in this game, the companions spells out directly their heart aren't in it because personal issues. I don't think "moral compass" is a sensible framing for this mechanic. None of them are voluntarily choosing subpar performance. Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you kinda misunderstood what she's saying. I think she meant that they seem to be moral, but if you really think about it too much you realise their self absorbed nature and the fact they can't put their petty issues aside means they are less moral than initially seems
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 4, 2024 13:55:38 GMT
I don't think "moral compass" is a sensible framing for this mechanic. None of them are voluntarily choosing subpar performance. Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you kinda misunderstood what she's saying. I think she meant that they seem to be moral, but if you really think about it too much you realise their self absorbed nature and the fact they can't put their petty issues aside means they are less moral than initially seems That's how I read it too, and I don't think it works. It's not like Lucanis didn't want to put his petty issues aside and just kill her. The problem was that he couldn't. Same for the others. Simply ignoring their own personal issues and functioning at full efficiency isn't an option for any of them. If it was, they'd take it. It's OK to think that the mechanic is silly, but we shouldn't mischaracterize how it works.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Dec 4, 2024 14:38:50 GMT
Either I misunderstand what you're saying or you kinda misunderstood what she's saying. I think she meant that they seem to be moral, but if you really think about it too much you realise their self absorbed nature and the fact they can't put their petty issues aside means they are less moral than initially seems That's how I read it too, and I don't think it works. It's not like Lucanis didn't want to put his petty issues aside and just kill her. The problem was that he couldn't. Same for the others. Simply ignoring their own personal issues and functioning at full efficiency isn't an option for any of them. If it was, they'd take it. It's OK to think that the mechanic is silly, but we shouldn't mischaracterize how it works. Hmm. I'm honestly not sure how exactly it works. Because I'm not sure you can solve their issues without going through all their useless fluff
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Post by colfoley on Dec 5, 2024 19:23:54 GMT
Since I finished the game and just remembered, still only find one choice that I missed or could have been included for flavor from previous DA games.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 5, 2024 20:38:07 GMT
That's how I read it too, and I don't think it works. It's not like Lucanis didn't want to put his petty issues aside and just kill her. The problem was that he couldn't. Same for the others. Simply ignoring their own personal issues and functioning at full efficiency isn't an option for any of them. If it was, they'd take it. It's OK to think that the mechanic is silly, but we shouldn't mischaracterize how it works. Hmm. I'm honestly not sure how exactly it works. Because I'm not sure you can solve their issues without going through all their useless fluff I think that's just an artifact of the way the conversation trees are designed. To open up the mission part you have to go through the conversation part.
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