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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 12, 2016 1:34:10 GMT
This video is not mine, I have just found it on Youtube.
I want to show that there are Sniper Rifles in ME1 that can only fire once without overheating. Two consecutive shoots will overheat.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 12, 2016 1:53:54 GMT
Master Spectre X? Sniper Rifles you find in the first few hours of the game aren't anything like a Master Spectre X. You can't judge how balanced the gunplay is around a weapon that is obtainable after reaching Level 50 and completing the 'Rich' achievement. But even if you can fire 3-4 rounds before overheating, is that a satisfying number which does not compromise gameplay? In my book, shooting 3-4 rounds and having to deal with downtime before you can shoot again is hardly a positive thing. As for Sniper Rifles in ME2, I have never invested much time into them, most of what I know about them is based on videos. But if you say playing exclusively with a Widow on ME2 is not practicable, I will take your word. As for the Shotgun however, I can confirm that in ME2 you can (if you desire) use nothing but the Claymore for all encounters as a Soldier with no issues. As a Vanguard you can also do that, yet not as effectively at medium-long ranges as the Soldier - which can pretty much snipe with the Claymore. In ME1 as far as my experience goes the overheat downtime is a serious setback for shotguns, regardless of how many shoots you can fire before getting there - against many enemies you will get there and have your gameplay experience hampered. You said "the most powerful sniper rifles in the game". Master Spectre X is the most powerful rifle in the game. And yes, four shots is plenty (compare that to the Widow's/Javelin's 1 or the BW's 3). If you want to rapid fire more than four shots, I humbly suggest a sniper rifle may not be what you're looking for. The "downtime" if you do overheat is hardly world breaking either. 3 maybe 4 seconds. Enemies do tend to bum rush you sometimes but that's what powers, squadmates and/or pistols/assault rifles are for. Again, you're not going to get that much better performance out of a Claymore, going by the gun alone. What you find easier/more satisfying is actually the result of improved mobility/ lack of enemy powers that ragdoll you or jam your gun, shield gate, health gate and faster cooldowns on powers due to global cooldowns. Hell if you're soldier I've been told you can play the game by spamming concussive shot over and over. Edit: just for kicks I gave myself shotguns to test it out. Master Spectre X with no heat dampening/absorption gives you a whopping 8 shots before it overheats. That's more than any shotgun in ME3 except the Scimitar and we all know that's mostly useless. Do lower weapons have poorer performance? Of course. But we're comparing top tier weapons are we not?
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Post by Duke Cameron on Nov 12, 2016 2:49:07 GMT
Eh, i like thermal clips.
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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 12, 2016 4:31:54 GMT
You said "the most powerful sniper rifles in the game". Master Spectre X is the most powerful rifle in the game. And yes, four shots is plenty (compare that to the Widow's/Javelin's 1 or the BW's 3). If you want to rapid fire more than four shots, I humbly suggest a sniper rifle may not be what you're looking for. The "downtime" if you do overheat is hardly world breaking either. 3 maybe 4 seconds. Enemies do tend to bum rush you sometimes but that's what powers, squadmates and/or pistols/assault rifles are for. Again, you're not going to get that much better performance out of a Claymore, going by the gun alone. What you find easier/more satisfying is actually the result of improved mobility/ lack of enemy powers that ragdoll you or jam your gun, shield gate, health gate and faster cooldowns on powers due to global cooldowns. Hell if you're soldier I've been told you can play the game by spamming concussive shot over and over. Edit: just for kicks I gave myself shotguns to test it out. Master Spectre X with no heat dampening/absorption gives you a whopping 8 shots before it overheats. That's more than any shotgun in ME3 except the Scimitar and we all know that's mostly useless. Do lower weapons have poorer performance? Of course. But we're comparing top tier weapons are we not? Well, certainly as far as Sniper Rifles are concerned you have won the argument. I would have to play ME1 again (and I confess that I haven't played it since 2011 or so) and get acquainted with its gameplay again in order to have any empirical piece of evidence to justify why I believe overheating weapons are no longer ideal in this franchise. Giving that 2016 has been a great year with many great games, I don't think I will be able to dedicate myself to playing ME1 anytime before ME:A comes out. For the time being, the only reason I have not to appreciate overheating weapons is pure personal bias. Nothing else.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 12, 2016 18:05:45 GMT
Well, certainly as far as Sniper Rifles are concerned you have won the argument. I would have to play ME1 again (and I confess that I haven't played it since 2011 or so) and get acquainted with its gameplay again in order to have any empirical piece of evidence to justify why I believe overheating weapons are no longer ideal in this franchise. Giving that 2016 has been a great year with many great games, I don't think I will be able to dedicate myself to playing ME1 anytime before ME:A comes out. For the time being, the only reason I have not to appreciate overheating weapons is pure personal bias. Nothing else. Fair enough. I only started replaying ME1 a couple of days ago, before that it was two maybe even three years since I'd played it last but strangely I never remembered the gameplay as particularly awful. In fact when first joining BSN I was surprised how many people had issues with it. But anyway, personal preference can't be argued so like what you're gonna like.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Nov 13, 2016 4:18:44 GMT
Always wondered why guns would allow you to overheat them in the first place. Would make more sense to have a system that restricts the rate of fire and prevents that from happening altogether, venting small amounts of heat as shots are fired. If anything you would have a cooling system that could be fired off occasionally for increased rate of fire. This reminds me of Halo: Reach's Plasma Repeater, which starts off firing at a high rate but after a second starts slowing down to a very low one, but never stops. You have to manually vent it to reset. I think a weapon like that in ME:A would be unique and interesting. I'm not saying it should slow down as it heats up I'm saying it should simply have a set rate of fire that doesn't allow you to overheat it easily. For example shotguns and pistols in ME1 could be used with ease if you didn't pull the trigger too fast. So why would they let you do it? Isn't the answer obvious? It shouldn't affect a disciplined shooter, so artificially capping the rate of fire to prevent overheat is just needless hand-holding for a professional. In other words, there would be many situations where firing in quick succession is ideal to bring down a target (or multiple), but still wouldn't overheat the weapon, whereas this would be impossible if the RoF was capped to prevent overheat. It would just be counterproductive. That's all solvable. A new game on a new engine shouldn't have the same limitations as ME3 did. I agree that the player's mobility shouldn't be impacted while the weapon is venting. Also agreed on being able to stow an overheated weapon and let it cool off on its own.While I definitely agree with you from a gameplay PoV, it wouldn't actually make much sense lore-wise, since the weapons fold up when stowed. Not very conducive to venting. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸ All these stupid reload animations, freezes, cooldowns, thermal clap and what have you are designed to limit your DPS.
Same with spitting out bullets. High velocity weapon? low damage per. Low velocity? High damage per and throw in low capacity storage or spread the bullets so wide you can'y hit a barn or wait for it... make it damn heavy so that your biotics\ powers are negative affected. These contrived hindrances are all designed to limit the DPS within certain boundaries for combat balancing purposes, though Shep was allowed to be super powered.
Really? The 22nd century and you don't have smart weapons?
Combat DPS in MEA will still be ruled by balance requirements to avoid overpowering an individual. Ryder's ability to learn new combat skills will not overcome the DPS wall.... especially so in MP. Expect contrivances.
Yes, a lot is done for the sake of weapon balance. I don't have a problem with this in most cases. It makes the game fun and have variety it wouldn't if certain weapons were just plain better than others in every way. Scifi games have it easy for balance since they can make up whatever guns they want and therefore they can give them different properties that naturally provide more variety and balance. For instance, it makes perfect sense that high RoF weapons would have less damage on average, because they would need to have a lower velocity and therefore less heat generation if they actually wanted to have an acceptable amount of shots per clip. It also makes sense that powerful weapons have low "ammo" capacities, since they generate more heat and fill heat-sinks faster. That kind of thing is cool to see. I agree with the general idea that there is room for both "infinite" ammo guns and the thermal clip weapons. That would allow for the most variety. As far as "realism" is concerned in Andromeda, I don't think it would be that big of an issue to have thermal clip weapons there. I assume thermal clips aren't particularly difficult to manufacture, and they aren't supposed to be all that cumbersome to carry. You'll notice that all of your spare clips are supposedly stored inside the weapon, which is why "reloading" is just ejecting a spent clip. With respect to cycling clips within the weapon like a revolver, this would probably work if the hot clips were rotated out where they can get into air flow to actually cool. This also brings up another point that is sidestepped in ME (especially ME1 style guns). Cooling the weapon should be easier if you are in an environment with relatively dense and cool air. It would be really poor in places that have low pressure or outright vacuum. In ME1 you routinely traveled to places with extreme environments, but they didn't bother to model the differences. This would probably hurt the "overheat" weapons more than the TC guns given that your limiting factor on the former is heat dissipation. Those are very good points which I somehow never really took into consideration. Personally, I hope we get a mix of overheating and thermal clip weapons in ME:A, and this would definitely provide a good reason to use thermal clips over overheating weapons given the exploratory setting. As for revolvers, I believe rotating thermal clips was the premise for the Piranha shotgun. About Element Zero 's idea for replacing the thermal clip ejection animations with manual venting: I've always wondered why we couldn't do this in ME2/3 (I mean, I know why - gameplay - but you know what I mean). Why a thermal clip had to be ejected instead of cooled, I don't know. There were definitely inconsistencies between gameplay and how thermal clips should work, and I hope they fix them in ME:A (though I'm not holding my breath). - You should be able to vent your weapon and slowly regenerate available shots. Slower than ME1 weapons, but still. Would be especially useful when out of clips, since you're not out of ammo. - Clips really should be shared universally across weapons, as is stated. This would translate into having not just a spare reload count instead of a space "ammo" count, but also a global reload count. So reloading one weapon takes away your spare "ammo" for all of your other weapons. In other words, at the extreme, one shot of Claymore would be equivalent to 100 shots from a Typhoon. That's how it's supposed to work, though that would get very annoying for gameplay, especially with single-shot weapons, so I can see why they didn't do it that way. - Tying in with the above, you would never reload your weapon and get fewer than full shots, because a new clip is a new clip. So you should never have a weapon with 30 rounds per clip having 142 rounds spare, since it's not a multiple of 30. Unless you're reusing a partially-spent thermal clip (which you aren't), reloading it would give you another 30. This inconsistency actually annoys me and I'd prefer if they did away with it. The crates are not the holy grail of gaming. They could just go away (in that far, far galaxy no man has ever set foot in before). Either make it all ammoless and/or CD or (*gasp*) designate a teammate to provide steady flow of reloads. (Yes, I like being support class. Yes, I would love to revive all you scrubs. ) You might be the only one who'd play that class I'd play a healer class though. Of course, with it being a shooter, they'd probably just end up ripping off the Medic from TF2. There actually are healers in ME3MP: Volus with Shield Boost It's actually very good support. I wouldn't mind having that in SP in ME:A, or rather, one of my squadmates using it, probably. On the topic of how useful overheating weapons are in ME3, they're extremely useful for casters, particularly. But especially the Collector SMG, because unlike others, it starts regenerating ammo cooling off immediately upon releasing a trigger instead of having a delay like others. This means you can fire, cast a power, and you'll already have those shots back. Alternatively, firing it in bursts means almost never overheating. As long as you don't completely overheat it, it's as close to continuous fire as you can get.
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