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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 12:12:26 GMT
I think I'm a little clearer on the idea now. It's a relief to know that I won't be expected to put all my responses on threads introducing spoilers inside spoiler tags. All I can say is I'll do my best to comply... just please don't judge me too harshly if I misunderstand and slip up.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 20, 2016 21:19:14 GMT
I like it. Can the SOURCE-SUBJECT-TYPE also be a thread title if it observes the First Law of Robotics ... I mean, the rules against spoiling titles? In the examples, the third one, "Reddit Multiplayer Leak" would be fair game for a thread title.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 20, 2016 21:48:53 GMT
I like it. Can the SOURCE-SUBJECT-TYPE also be a thread title if it observes the First Law of Robotics ... I mean, the rules against spoiling titles? In the examples, the third one, "Reddit Multiplayer Leak" would be fair game for a thread title. That sounds like a plan
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 20, 2016 22:17:45 GMT
I like it. Can the SOURCE-SUBJECT-TYPE also be a thread title if it observes the First Law of Robotics ... I mean, the rules against spoiling titles? In the examples, the third one, "Reddit Multiplayer Leak" would be fair game for a thread title. That sounds like a plan Yes, I think it should ideally be in the title because, once you click on the thread, you may inadvertantly flick your eyes over something that reveals the spoiler before you get a chance to get out of there.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 20, 2016 22:27:18 GMT
What I don't understand is this fanaticism about spoilers. Bewilders me to no end. The good of the many corrupted by the will of the few is my guess. The idea that the number of people who would be upset by the leak of a major plot twist or big moment in the game before they get the chance to experience it for themselves are in the minority is what bewilders me. Your idea of an all or nothing forum could potentially hurt the majority, IMO, not the minority. In any case, a little consideration for others is not a fanatical request.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 20, 2016 22:38:09 GMT
Thanks for the dialogue and extra effort, SofaJockey. I think today's iteration is a very good written explanation of proper "spoiler decorum". It allows for business to continue as normal, with just a bit of forethought and courtesy spared for our friends. If we all try to stick to it, there should be very few issues.
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Post by Awkward Octopus on Nov 20, 2016 23:07:06 GMT
I agree. This current iteration sounds good! It's basically just common sense and a bit of courtesy. It's not weird for people to want to be involved in discussions about the game's officially released information and also avoid spoilers from leaks/unofficial sources. At the same time, we don't want to put a burden on those who want to discuss spoilers. Being considerate with thread titles, using spoiler tags, and avoiding spoiler discussion in unrelated threads (like the Twitter thread) are perfectly reasonable requests.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 21, 2016 13:59:14 GMT
What I don't understand is this fanaticism about spoilers. Bewilders me to no end. The good of the many corrupted by the will of the few is my guess. The idea that the number of people who would be upset by the leak of a major plot twist or big moment in the game before they get the chance to experience it for themselves are in the minority is what bewilders me. Your idea of an all or nothing forum could potentially hurt the majority, IMO, not the minority. In any case, a little consideration for others is not a fanatical request. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm.. If they don't want to read new info , why is that my problem? Put another way. There is a spoiler free zone already. Don't want to stub sensitive toes?.. go there. I personally don't post there. Therefore, I don't have any opportunity to spoil anything. Yet, I'm being shackled. How very interesting.
Let just say I'm the opposite of the anti-spoiler crowd. As a matter of fact, it's information that makes my decision to buy a game or not. Always has been. My background in IT made is mandatory that I had all the relevant info before making a decision. You don't go to senior level mngt and say Oh, yeah, that $30M IBM 3090E computer system will do fine for the next five years.
Consideration, btw, is also a two-way-street. At least, that is what I was brought up to believe. Seems today, it's a one way street. Also, not to belate the point, if it's consideration they want how come they don't consider going to the spoiler free zone?
Anyway, I believe a decision is made and rules are rules. Enough said on my part.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 21, 2016 14:52:54 GMT
Hm.. If they don't want to read new info , why is that my problem? Put another way. There is a spoiler free zone already. Don't want to stub sensitive toes?.. go there. I personally don't post there. Therefore, I don't have any opportunity to spoil anything. Yet, I'm being shackled. How very interesting. That completely misses the point of every post I've made so far. People do want to read new info. Wanting to read new info and not wanting to have the game spoiled by the wrong kind of info are not mutually exclusive! Also, it does help you too. Unles you're happy to learn the entire plot of the game including all twists and surprises before you've played it. In which case, I'd have to wonder why you would even play a Bioware game if you're so uncaring about experiencing the story with its intended emotional intensity. A spoiler free zone defeats the object of the entire forum. It is not a solution to anything.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 21, 2016 17:36:53 GMT
Hm.. If they don't want to read new info , why is that my problem? Put another way. There is a spoiler free zone already. Don't want to stub sensitive toes?.. go there. I personally don't post there. Therefore, I don't have any opportunity to spoil anything. Yet, I'm being shackled. How very interesting. That completely misses the point of every post I've made so far. People do want to read new info. Wanting to read new info and not wanting to have the game spoiled by the wrong kind of info are not mutually exclusive! Also, it does help you too. Unles you're happy to learn the entire plot of the game including all twists and surprises before you've played it. In which case, I'd have to wonder why you would even play a Bioware game if you're so uncaring about experiencing the story with its intended emotional intensity. A spoiler free zone defeats the object of the entire forum. It is not a solution to anything. If you see a post laying out the entire plot before you, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to recognize is as such before you actually learn about all the details. With a bit of common sense you'll be able to avoid it and read not further. It still takes two to transport a message: Sender and receiver.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 21, 2016 20:15:09 GMT
Consideration, btw, is also a two-way-street. That's true, of course. But given that the mods have decided, for the time being, not to split the forum into no-spoilers/spoilers, what other solution do you suggest? You are coming across as uncompromising, but the situation demands compromise. So what will it be? You want to rail against the mods to split the forum all day long? That doesn't seem productive.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 21, 2016 22:41:05 GMT
If you see a post laying out the entire plot before you, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to recognize is as such before you actually learn about all the details. With a bit of common sense you'll be able to avoid it and read not further. It still takes two to transport a message: Sender and receiver. Hey did you hear you can get to choose who dies on Virmire - Kaiden or Ashley? Cool huh? Oops, too late
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 21, 2016 22:46:33 GMT
Consideration, btw, is also a two-way-street. That's true, of course. But given that the mods have decided, for the time being, not to split the forum into no-spoilers/spoilers, what other solution do you suggest? You are coming across as uncompromising, but the situation demands compromise. So what will it be? You want to rail against the mods to split the forum all day long? That doesn't seem productive. To be fair, Sartoz did acknowledge the mods decision and that he will abide by the rules. I wouldn't say he was being uncompromising about it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 22:58:24 GMT
Unfortunately, no matter how "cooperative" folks are ... it isn't going to work.
I wouldn't consider Biotic Tower to be anything but a decent sort, but in the twitter discussion thread, a post about a GI article just led to a *gasp* spoiler.
Oh, the horror.
Oh, the humanity.
Oh why, oh why are folks who don't want to be spoilered, hanging out in the twitter discussion thread?
The person who complained wasn't unhinged and was totally a good sport about it ... but why go there?
And now, there is a thread on the subject ... which is not labeled as a spoiler thread ... again, not by someone being malicious, just excited about the info.
People are not being jerks, they are not being stupid, but we are asking 2000+ members of the BSNuf forum to read the spoiler discussion, absorb the ever-changing rule set and then comply when they post.
Let me think about how that's going to work out.
Hmmmm ...
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Post by Awkward Octopus on Nov 22, 2016 0:03:32 GMT
That's why it's hard to make rules for a subjective situation. The current proposal is still fine.
If that "spoiler" had been from a leak, then yes, it should have been tagged, and probably not in the Twitter thread at all. Because it was officially released information from BioWare interviews in a GI article, I believe it was fair game to discuss in that particular thread.
If that kind of very minor character information is bothersome, then it might be time to start avoiding Mass Effect news and the Twitter thread, because there's going to be more and more of that, discussed freely and openly by BioWare, the closer we get to release.
Now, if that article had gone on to describe in detail the names/classes/races of every single party member, it would probably be polite to warn people about the contents while posting a link to the article, and make a new thread for discussion. But that's a more obvious situation.
This isn't an all or nothing issue. There's gray. There will be honest mistakes, and that's the trade-off about wanting to participate in discussion while also avoiding spoilers. But it's better, I think, to be as accommodating as possible to as many people as possible, and that means there will be compromise. I don't believe anything unreasonable is being asked from either side of the issue. Be courteous about thread titles and tagging unofficial or especially detailed (not an issue to worry about yet) information, tread carefully and use common sense about which threads/forums you enter depending on your level of comfort with what information you're ok hearing about. It's not complicated.
EDIT: But of course, that's all my own subjective opinion. People will disagree, and in the end it's up to the mods to decide. I think the current proposal is good, though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 22, 2016 7:39:18 GMT
Arguably, aside of the prior Reddit leak (and that is quickly being overtaken by official reveals) there have been no spoilers so far that are not BioWare sanctioned teasers.
When a spoiler sub-forum opens, my preference would be that it focus on actual game spoilers such as walkthroughs, quest solutions, spoilers discovered by virtue of actually playing the game, and pre-launch actual leaks.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2016 8:06:00 GMT
That's why it's hard to make rules for a subjective situation. The current proposal is still fine. If that "spoiler" had been from a leak, then yes, it should have been tagged, and probably not in the Twitter thread at all. Because it was officially released information from BioWare interviews in a GI article, I believe it was fair game to discuss in that particular thread. If that kind of very minor character information is bothersome, then it might be time to start avoiding Mass Effect news and the Twitter thread, because there's going to be more and more of that, discussed freely and openly by BioWare, the closer we get to release. Now, if that article had gone on to describe in detail the names/classes/races of every single party member, it would probably be polite to warn people about the contents while posting a link to the article, and make a new thread for discussion. But that's a more obvious situation. This isn't an all or nothing issue. There's gray. There will be honest mistakes, and that's the trade-off about wanting to participate in discussion while also avoiding spoilers. But it's better, I think, to be as accommodating as possible to as many people as possible, and that means there will be compromise. I don't believe anything unreasonable is being asked from either side of the issue. Be courteous about thread titles and tagging unofficial or especially detailed (not an issue to worry about yet) information, tread carefully and use common sense about which threads/forums you enter depending on your level of comfort with what information you're ok hearing about. It's not complicated. EDIT: But of course, that's all my own subjective opinion. People will disagree, and in the end it's up to the mods to decide. I think the current proposal is good, though. See, here is the thing. I losely follow the Andromeda section. Yet, I have no idea about that spoiler you mention. I haven't seen it. I haven't looked for it. Will that prevent me from seeing spoilers in the future? In a forum of geeks, excited about the object of their obsession? Probably not. If I really don't want any about it, I'd just refrain coming to the forum. It's that simple.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 22, 2016 11:06:25 GMT
I think the nature of the twitter thread is such that official reveals like those we have had so far should be fine without spoilers. To that end, I would recommend adding something like [BIOWARE REVEAL SPOILERS] in the thread title. That way anybody going in that thread will be prepared to expect such spoilers. Anything not an officially sanctioned reveal would then be the only thing required in spoiler tags for that thread.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 11:33:16 GMT
Interesting I never considered BW marketing reveals as spoilers because well they told us things to tease us not to ruin our game experience they hardly worked on it. So are now BW marketing reveals spoilers too? That's extreme IMO.
In my humble opinion these kinds of regulations with spoiler tags relies on people self-control and discipline which historically never turned out to be good.
I would be more open to a simple solution which is to create a "Mass Effect Andromeda Story and Character Discussion" section in which people can post their spoiler threads (big,small,medium,mild or extreme) without problems. The General Discussion section instead should be entirely spoiler free and dedicated to fans speculations. When the game release people wanting to discuss the story and characters will go to the spoiler section, others will remain in the general forum and have non-spoilerish discussion.
The advantages of this proposal are: 1)It's easy people will be able to post spoilers in the spoiler section without worrying 2)Moderators will be able to enforce better the rules because they would have just one spoiler-free section to police. 3)People that don't want spoilers can remain in their general discussion safe-zone. 4)Very neat separation between spoiler and non-spoiler zone reduce the risk of accidentally spoiling the game.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 22, 2016 11:48:18 GMT
The advantages of this proposal are: 1)It's easy people will be able to post spoilers in the spoiler section without worrying 2)Moderators will be able to enforce better the rules because they would have just one spoiler-free section to police. 3)People that don't want spoilers can remain in their general discussion safe-zone. 4)Very neat separation between spoiler and non-spoiler zone reduce the risk of accidentally spoiling the game. And the disadvantage is that people like me who are quite happy with reading official reveals and magazine articles will have nowhere to read that information for fear of getting real leaks and game-spoiling information posted with no restriction. Spoliers are not an all or nothing thing. As you say, yourself, worrying about official marketing reveals is extreme which implies that worrying about other, less official, reveals would not be. There are different levels of spoiler. A free-for-all zone is somewhere nobody who cares about the game should ever be comfortable with frequenting. I would absolutely leave the forum if all or nothing were the only choices. All you need to avoid having to spoiler tag official marketing reveals is to make it clear in the thread title that those are allowed in that thread. A couple of seconds extra effort by the OP protects both the spoiler-phobes from ever being spoiled and allows everyone else to post freely (with the exception of having to spoiler tag anything not covered by the tread title, of course).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 12:17:37 GMT
The advantages of this proposal are: 1)It's easy people will be able to post spoilers in the spoiler section without worrying 2)Moderators will be able to enforce better the rules because they would have just one spoiler-free section to police. 3)People that don't want spoilers can remain in their general discussion safe-zone. 4)Very neat separation between spoiler and non-spoiler zone reduce the risk of accidentally spoiling the game. And the disadvantage is that people like me who are quite happy with reading official reveals and magazine articles will have nowhere to read that information for fear of getting real leaks and game-spoiling information posted with no restriction. Spoliers are not an all or nothing thing. As you say, yourself, worrying about official marketing reveals is extreme which implies that worrying about other, less official, reveals would not be. There are different levels of spoiler. A free-for-all zone is somewhere nobody who cares about the game should ever be comfortable with frequenting. I would absolutely leave the forum if all or nothing were the only choices. All you need to avoid having to spoiler tag official marketing reveals is to make it clear in the thread title that those are allowed in that thread. A couple of seconds extra effort by the OP protects both the spoiler-phobes from ever being spoiled and allows everyone else to post freely (with the exception of having to spoiler tag anything not covered by the tread title, of course). Sorry English is not my native tounge so I'm not getting what's your problem. If you consider BW official marketing spoiler then you might not want to visit a fan forum till you have played the game. If instead (like I think) you're bothered by unofficial spoilers (other gamers playing the game and wanting to discuss it) then my solutions will protect you from inadvertently getting spoiled while letting people post freely their opinions in a spoiler-friendly section. You will have the entirety of the General Discussion sections where the only spoilers permitted are those officially released by BW. I don't understand your problem, ultimately as you have the right to avoid spoilers people have also the right to a safe space where they can freely discuss their gaming experience. Asking people to put spoiler tags and labels on the type of spoilers they want to post (mild, extreme, story, character) is just a real chore who would make posting here annoying and you can bet a million dollars many people are not going to respect it because it's tedious and complicated not only to do in each discussion but also a chore for the moderators to police. By keeping spoiler and non-spoiler sections mixed, no matter what at some point you will get spoiled because there is always going to be someone who is not respecting that rule (for ignorance or malice) and maybe a moderator won't be there to remove the thing before others will see it. This is my opinion of course.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2016 14:07:31 GMT
Let's all the things! Then we don't have to worry about the fucking redtape anymore!
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 22, 2016 21:53:49 GMT
Sorry English is not my native tounge so I'm not getting what's your problem. If you consider BW official marketing spoiler then you might not want to visit a fan forum till you have played the game. If instead (like I think) you're bothered by unofficial spoilers (other gamers playing the game and wanting to discuss it) then my solutions will protect you from inadvertently getting spoiled while letting people post freely their opinions in a spoiler-friendly section. You will have the entirety of the General Discussion sections where the only spoilers permitted are those officially released by BW. I don't understand your problem, ultimately as you have the right to avoid spoilers people have also the right to a safe space where they can freely discuss their gaming experience. That solution is fine but that is not the solution you proposed! You said all spoilers, whatever their severity, goes in one place and implied that no spoilers at all are allowed in the general section. At least, that's how interpreted your post. I fully expect that there will be a sub-forum, or at least several threads, for discussing the game after it is released in which nothing needs to be spoilered. I intend to vacate the boards as soon as the game comes out until I have finished the game at least once but I expect I will appreciate those once I'm ready. It's not that complicated or onerous if you make it thread based. Flag the type of spoiler to be expected in the title of a given thread and then nobody needs to spoiler tag anything in that thread unless it goes beyond that criteria. Just tag a thread as having official Bioware released spoilers and very little at all would need spoler tagging. There could well be slip ups but not being able to do something perfectly is never a reason to not try at all.
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twitch.tv/goishen
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goishen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by goishen on Nov 25, 2016 4:23:50 GMT
How about we just make a spoiler thread, with all the spoilers in it?
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SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
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August 2016
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 25, 2016 8:42:10 GMT
How about we just make a spoiler thread, with all the spoilers in it? The main reason for this is that aside of the Reddit leak there have been no game spoilers (aside of official teasers) released yet. If we made it now, how would we differentiate between teasers that one person considers spoilerific vs someone else? The real spoilers are the ones that arrive through leaks or by actually playing the game.
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