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Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2016 18:47:40 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Warning .No clue if this is classified as a SPOILER. Plust it's supposed to be 2.4 millions years According to the brief, the Initiative obtained sensor data from the Andromeda galaxy that identified Golden worlds. Super awesome.
However, light from Andromeda will hit us 2+million years after the fact. We may have ID'ed Golden Worlds that were Golden 2 million of years ago. Add galactic drift and changes in galactic rotation, those worlds are not were the sensor data tells us they are.
Planets don't stay the same for 2m years. I say the rationale for going there is... w e a k. Edit: Changed to millions instead of billions.... Now to change the title...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: wulfram77
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Post by Wulfram on Nov 16, 2016 18:50:19 GMT
Million, not Billion. Which is a big difference.
Plus its possible they could be talking about scans we'll make on the way
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 16, 2016 19:05:41 GMT
I'm not sure why people keep mistaking the distance to Andromeda. I've seen more incorrect posts about the distance than correct.
For the record, it's 2.537 million light-years distance.
The diameter of the galactic disc is about 220,000 light-years.
So the absolute worst case distance, if Andromeda is edge-on to our view in the MW, is 2.757 million light-years.
So worst case, the information from light arriving here on Earth is 2.757 million years old. Not enough time for all goldenworlds to become uninhabitable, but enough time for a spacefaring culture to arise on all of them, assuming they already have sentient life and barring extinction events.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KirkyX on Nov 16, 2016 19:38:20 GMT
I'm just gonna paraphrase my post from the other thread, with some edits to account for context and the fact that I originally goofed on actually looking up the number of lightyears between the Milky Way and Andromeda, instead just using Arcian's figure out of context:
Right now - or rather, in 2185 - we can point our ultra-mega-telescopes - that are, nonetheless, limited to lightspeed - at Andromeda, and see what was there 2.5 million - not billion - years ago. As 2.5 million years is a relatively short stretch of time in astronomical terms, there's a very good chance that any habitable planets that were there 2.5 million years ago will still be there now--y'know, once you've accounted for cosmic drift and such. Earth, for example, has been able to support complex land-based life for at least the last 363 million years, and will only cease to be habitable somewhere between 1.75 and 3.25 billion years from now.
We won't know exactly what we're getting into - that's the point of the game, after all; we're explorers - but the chances of every 'Golden World' candidate - assuming we chart more than a couple - having become uninhabitable in that 2.5 million year window should be infinitesimally small.
To sum up: this is a nonissue, so far as practicality is concerned. Indeed, it's actually pretty much perfect for giving the game an interesting set-up: we can know where most of the habitable/valuable worlds are ahead of time, but not exactly what we can expect to find on or around those worlds.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2016 19:57:00 GMT
Million, not Billion. Which is a big difference. Plus its possible they could be talking about scans we'll make on the way It is a big difference, but it's still the difference between Australopithecines and today's humanity. Which is still a major difference.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2016 20:18:32 GMT
Million, not Billion. Which is a big difference. Plus its possible they could be talking about scans we'll make on the way It is a big difference, but it's still the difference between Australopithecines and today's humanity. Which is still a major difference. Not really. Geological and astronomically speaking 2 million years isn't much.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 16, 2016 20:18:38 GMT
You're right. I say stop the project right now. Turn the ships into giant war ships to use against the reapers. Conventional victory is now possible. hahahahahahaha.
I'm not too concerned about the golden world thing.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 16, 2016 20:30:52 GMT
This thread again? I'm not sure whether to copy-paste the answers already given, post links, or just give up. I'd suggest reading up on Arcian's thread before pushing this line of thought too far. MEA will have some asspulls and head-scratchers, but this is not one of them. Edit: Edited after rereading posts I'd skimmed and misinterpreted.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2016 20:37:55 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Yes, it's in millions. I'll update the title when I know how.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2016 20:44:41 GMT
Million, not Billion. Which is a big difference. Plus its possible they could be talking about scans we'll make on the way ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Yes, millions... my bad
You're suggesting the ARKs stopped between galaxies to take another reading?.. That's still old data at the point of stoppage.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2016 20:45:23 GMT
It is a big difference, but it's still the difference between Australopithecines and today's humanity. Which is still a major difference. Not really. Geological and astronomically speaking 2 million years isn't much. But it is significant from an evolutionary and technological standpoint. 2-3 million years may not change the planet much, but it can drastically change whatever is living on it.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2016 20:47:28 GMT
You're right. I say stop the project right now. Turn the ships into giant war ships to use against the reapers. Conventional victory is now possible. hahahahahahaha. I'm not too concerned about the golden world thing. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I'm still looking forward to the game but I wonder what Mac and co have to say.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 16, 2016 20:53:01 GMT
I'm just gonna paraphrase my post from the other thread, with some edits to account for context and the fact that I originally goofed on actually looking up the number of lightyears between the Milky Way and Andromeda, instead just using Arcian's figure out of context: Right now - or rather, in 2185 - we can point our ultra-mega-telescopes - that are, nonetheless, limited to lightspeed - at Andromeda, and see what was there 2.5 million - not billion - years ago. As 2.5 million years is a relatively short stretch of time in astronomical terms, there's a very good chance that any habitable planets that were there 2.5 million years ago will still be there now--y'know, once you've accounted for cosmic drift and such. Earth, for example, has been able to support complex land-based life for at least the last 363 million years, and will only cease to be habitable somewhere between 1.75 and 3.25 billion years from now. We won't know exactly what we're getting into - that's the point of the game, after all; we're explorers - but the chances of every 'Golden World' candidate - assuming we chart more than a couple - having become uninhabitable in that 2.5 million year window should be infinitesimally small. To sum up: this is a nonissue, so far as practicality is concerned. Indeed, it's actually pretty much perfect for giving the game an interesting set-up: we can know where most of the habitable/valuable worlds are ahead of time, but not exactly what we can expect to find on or around those worlds. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Perhaps. However, the planets can have gone through a few Ice Ages, by then. Arrival can gives us some surprises.
I'm not worried though. The game will be what it is.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 16, 2016 20:55:10 GMT
To add to what KirkyX said, and to bring in what some of us had mentioned in the other thread, telescopes would have phenomenally greater capability in 22C. We could build vast arrays at the edge of the Milky Way, achieving some amazing images. Or, we could link telescopes at distant points via comm buoy, maybe even as far apart as the distant corners of the galaxy, really adding incredible "depth perception" to our imaging. (Stellar parallax is generally impossible to perceive with stars being so distant and your eyes being centimeters apart, but imagine the ability to see the universe in "3D" as it truly exists.) The imaging we'd achieve with passive sensors might be 2.5 million years old, but it would be phenomenally detailed. It would be plenty detailed enough to justify an exploratory expedition in a science fiction game. The inevitability of some of the data being out of date is built into the storyline, anyway. For those who haven't read the GI article, I'm about to spoil its contents. When Ark Hyperion arrives in Andromeda at Habitat 7, the first targeted human Golden World, things "aren't as expected". The atmosphere is highly volatile. Communication with the Nexus and other Arks is impossible, and Hyperion suffers some catastrophe. At some point, you guys have to give the writers some credit. They aren't idiots. If you've thought of it, they've likely thought of it, too. Maybe they will view it your way, maybe not. We just have to wait and see.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Nov 16, 2016 21:03:07 GMT
When are you ever going to stop jumping the gun Sartoz? THe only W E A K thing here is your reasoning. Technology and the mathematical formulas to calculate the movement of celestial bodies exist for quite some time. Would it really be that hard to make a 5min search in any search engine before creating this thread?
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 16, 2016 21:03:15 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Perhaps. However, the planets can have gone through a few Ice Ages, by then. Arrival can gives us some surprises.
I'm not worried though. The game will be what it is.
I don't think anyone is expecting these "Golden Worlds" to be idyllic, shirt-sleeves worlds like Earth, Virmire, or Terra Nova. They are hoping to find habitable worlds, places that can be made livable. Livable and pleasant aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm sure they hope some of these worlds will prove to be halfway decent places, but they are mostly looking for water, manageable temperatures, suitable atmospheric composition, etc...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Wulfram on Nov 16, 2016 21:04:55 GMT
Not really. Geological and astronomically speaking 2 million years isn't much. But it is significant from an evolutionary and technological standpoint. 2-3 million years may not change the planet much, but it can drastically change whatever is living on it. I wouldn't call it a lot in evolutionary terms. Not as far as affecting the suitability to colonisation goes, anyway. Sure, you might find intelligent life has developed, but our own planets history suggests its unlikely - we've only developed intelligent life once, after all.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2016 21:06:56 GMT
But it is significant from an evolutionary and technological standpoint. 2-3 million years may not change the planet much, but it can drastically change whatever is living on it. I wouldn't call it a lot in evolutionary terms. Not as far as affecting the suitability to colonisation goes, anyway. Sure, you might find intelligent life has developed, but our own planets history suggests its unlikely - we've only developed intelligent life once, after all. That we know of. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) ![](http://i.imgur.com/bAFMN.jpg)
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Post by ravenous on Nov 16, 2016 21:45:45 GMT
The Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 million years away from earth, not billion years away
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2016 21:55:23 GMT
I wouldn't call it a lot in evolutionary terms. Not as far as affecting the suitability to colonisation goes, anyway. Sure, you might find intelligent life has developed, but our own planets history suggests its unlikely - we've only developed intelligent life once, after all. That we know of. ![](http://i.imgur.com/bAFMN.jpg) Which also leads to the point that, in the ME-verse, Reapers have been scouring the galaxy of intelligent life for a billion years or more. Andromeda, in addition to being an older galaxy, hasn't had that problem (that we know of)
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Post by kino on Nov 16, 2016 21:55:55 GMT
We find earth like, and super earth, planets quite often with sensors. They're called telescopes. Tack on telescopic and light wave technology advancements and I'm uncertain why this premise seems so difficult to grasp. Hell, if this bothers a person so much I'm surprised they didn't just walk away at the thought of Mass Relays.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 16, 2016 22:02:36 GMT
That we know of. ![](http://i.imgur.com/bAFMN.jpg) Which also leads to the point that, in the ME-verse, Reapers have been scouring the galaxy of intelligent life for a billion years or more. Andromeda, in addition to being an older galaxy, hasn't had that problem (that we know of) Considering they confirmed there aren't relays there, I think it's almost sure the Reapers never traveled to Andromeda.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2016 22:09:39 GMT
Which also leads to the point that, in the ME-verse, Reapers have been scouring the galaxy of intelligent life for a billion years or more. Andromeda, in addition to being an older galaxy, hasn't had that problem (that we know of) Considering they confirmed there aren't relays there, I think it's almost sure the Reapers never traveled to Andromeda. But...but...the inevitable synthetic uprising that will inevitably wipe out all organic life without the reapers to stop it! it's INEVITABLE! Or, you know, organic life being able to grow unhindered for a billion years or so beyond this current cycle, we'd be like gnats to them...
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 16, 2016 22:14:30 GMT
Considering they confirmed there aren't relays there, I think it's almost sure the Reapers never traveled to Andromeda. But...but...the inevitable synthetic uprising that will inevitably wipe out all organic life without the reapers to stop it! it's INEVITABLE! Or, you know, organic life being able to grow unhindered for a billion years or so beyond this current cycle, we'd be like gnats to them... The Kett does seem to possess technology or powers beyond ours species, with flight/gravity control in the trailer.
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