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Post by Element Zero on Nov 17, 2016 16:12:44 GMT
This thread again? I'm not sure whether to copy-paste the answers already given, post links, or just give up. I'd suggest reading up on Arcian's failed thread before pushing this line of thought too far. MEA will have some asspulls and head-scratchers, but this is not one of them. It wasn't my thread that failed, buddy, it was your comprehension. Trying to detect something with RADAR/LADAR sensors at a distance of 2.5 million light years - which was the topic of my thread - will take 5 million years because the signal has to reach its intended target and then bounce back. Right. It was rude and in poor taste for me to post the above in that way. I apologize for that. Still, I didn't misunderstand that thread. You edited the "RADAR/LADAR" part in after the initial wave of responses. I'm not saying that wasn't what you originally intended to say, but no one failed to comprehend the post as originally written. I'll go edit my rude post, now. It may or may not bother you, and I know it's now preserved via quote, but sorry for that.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 17, 2016 16:15:52 GMT
It wasn't my thread that failed, buddy, it was your comprehension. Trying to detect something with RADAR/LADAR sensors at a distance of 2.5 million light years - which was the topic of my thread - will take 5 million years because the signal has to reach its intended target and then bounce back. Right. It was rude and in poor taste for me to post the above in that way. I apologize for that. Still, I didn't misunderstand that thread. You edited the "active sensors" part in after the initial wave of responses. I'm not saying that wasn't what you originally intended to say, but no one failed to comprehend the post as originally written. I'll go edit my rude post, now. It may or may not bother you, and I know it's now preserved via quote, but sorry for that. No hard feelings, man. I edited the OP in my thread because I realized I wasn't clear enough with what I meant and people was misinterpreting the point I was trying to make.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Nov 17, 2016 23:53:44 GMT
BansheeOwnage , a few thoughts on this post. First, about the double-barrels. The bottom one is actually the barrel. The top one is the scope, and could be removed from most guns without affecting their functionality. Some barrel mods in ME3 were incorrectly applied to the scope, instead of the barrel, causing confusion. Screenshots of MEA combat give me hope that this won't happen again. Secondly, do we know that there will be biotic enemies? We might assume, but there are no guarantees. It sounds like we are going to encounter only two intelligent species, and it's entirely possible that neither has yet developed biotics. Finally, your discussion about the types of development that we could and couldn't detect from afar made me want to share more of my theories. At this point, we know that Ark Hyperion arrives at Habitat 7 and finds it "not as expected". The Pathfinder and team is deployed to investigate. We also know that, at some point, catastrophe strikes Hyperion. We don't know the exact order, but it seems to be all in tight succession. I'm suspicious that Habitat 7 houses remnant tech that is causing the crazy atmospheric activity. No big leap of logic, there. I do not necessarily think Habitat 7 is a kett-inhabited world. Rather, I wonder if they aren't investigating the remnant tech themselves when we make first contact. Its even possible that they activated something. Alternately, they were attracted by the change on this world. Remember that scene in the trailer with the strange tower, the floating rocks, the injured female ally, etc...? It seemed clear that the kett were also present. Maybe this was Habitat 7? Like I said, it's mostly theorizing off of scraps, but I think we could initially cross paths in a way similar to this. 1. Wait, what? Sorry, that doesn't make much sense to me If that was explained somewhere and I missed it, fine. But I don't see how the top "barrel" could be a scope in any traditional sense. For one, it looks identical to the other barrel. For another, you can't look through it. Are you suggesting it's a laser out of the visual spectrum linked to a soldier's HUD for aiming? Lastly, why, then, would many weapons which feature two barrels, like the Avenger, have built-in scopes (pre-ME3) if the gun already had a scope? Sorry, I'm not trying to argue per se, I just don't understand. I always assumed that: A. They shots alternate between firing from each barrel to reduce heat generation while maintaining rate-of-fire (although, oddly, the bottom barrel is usually smaller). B. We didn't see muzzle flashes or weapon mods such as extended barrels on the bottom barrel because it was easier to animate/model etc. This is supported by images like the Mass Effect 2 cover, which shows both barrels in Shepard's Avenger and Thane's Shuriken smoking from use, as well as vents next to both barrels. 2. Yes, we know there are biotic enemies, courtesy of the GI article. "-Different enemies require you to use different tactics (some are shield heavy, some use heavy biotics etc)" Although now that you mention it, I suppose we don't know if those enemies will actually be Andromedans... They could be the inevitable Milky Way space pirates that will appear to add enemy variety and more internal conflict in the story (the Explorers Wanted scripts mentioned this happening, and while those might not appear ingame, I have no doubt the pirates in them will). I kind of hope some of them will have biotics though. And I hope we encounter more than just 2 intelligent species Partly because of itself, and partly because it would limit our first contact scenarios down to one, really, since we all know how first contact with the Kett goes... 3. It does seem like all of that will happen in quick succession, probably in the prologue. In fact, I got the impression that almost all of the footage from the latest trailer was taken from the prologue, so I would think that's Habitat 7, yes. I also agree it's possible the Kett are simply there for the Remnant tech and not the world itself, though they must be quite hostile in that case, since the humans didn't even go there for that tech in the first place and weren't any real competition. Hmm, if they did activate something, could it be responsible for the changes to the planet? I still have a feeling one of the uses for Remnant tech would be terraforming. Alternatively, it might have, intentionally or otherwise, brought down the Hyperion, which would naturally make the humans pretty pissed at them. After all, getting caught in a gravity well would be a logical way to have a ship that massive (with huge potential firepower/escort fleet) be so easily disabled. Well, I suppose it call comes down to what each person sees as iconic. Yes, I think the relays are fairly iconic, but mostly of ME1, if that makes sense. Same with the Mako. But there are many other things that could be considered iconic to different people that are still present. *snip* So are relays a symbol of Mass Effect? Absolutely. But to me they're not the symbol. The Mass Relays were a crucial element in every significant thing that happened in the MEU and especially the games. They were what got humanity involved with all the races and places we know and love. In ME1 the game was looking for the Conduit, a one-way Mass Relay, to stop Saren from activating the Citadel, which is a giant Mass Relay that connects to Dark Space. In ME2, the whole thing was getting everything ready for a venture through the Omega-4 Mass Relay to stop the Collectors, and then Arrival had us destroy the Alpha Mass Relay to delay the Reaper invasion. Finally in ME3 we defeat the Reapers by using the Citadel to transmit the effects of the Crucible through the entire Mass Relay Array, stopping the Reaper threat once and for all in whatever way you chose. I'd say that makes them an iconic part of the franchise, as much as say the Halo rings are in the Halo franchise. I do agree that for most things the iconicness of them is subjective, like many of the things you listed. But I disagree that the Mass Relays are after everything they have been a part of. Even N7 despite Bioware's attempts isn't as iconic for the franchise(instead is iconic of a protagonist in that franchise). You make a good point about how integral the relays were in the story, and I hadn't thought about it all grouped together like that. However, I'll just have to repeat what I said last post: I never disagreed that the relays were iconic, only that they weren't the symbol of Mass Effect. As a footnote: While N7 is certainly evocative of Shepard, it grew into more of a general symbol of Mass Effect over time. It was put onto merchandise and plastered all over marketing and even things that weren't really related to N7, like the multiplayer characters. While it happened in a slightly circular manner (came from Shepard, but N7 merch turned it into a more general symbol which prompted even more plastering), it still ended up being incredibly iconic simply as a symbol for the franchise. So much so that Bioware is using it to a huge degree in Andromeda marketing despite wanting to differentiate between Ryder and Shepard and saying things like "You're not Shepard, you're not N7!" Even showing context-less images of the Ryder twins in N7 gear despite them normally being shown in Initiative-standard white. So either that's not a plot-point and they're milking it for marketing for all it's worth, or it is a plot-point and their attempts to distance Ryder and the game from Shepard and the trilogy aren't as serious as they claimed. I'm sorry but I can't get past the notion that there are no mass relays in Andromeda. It violates the entire logic and central premise of the universe. Remember what the motivation for the Reapers were and remember even with conventional FTL how fast Reapers could go (and why wouldn't Reapers have this super-duper FTL? after millions of years of assimilation?) The problem of technological singularities and the destruction of life is not confined to the milky way. Ergo, the Reapers should have both the means and motivation to have Mass Relays not only in the Milky Way but (at the very *least*) the entire local galactic group (including Andromeda). So that means there either are Mass Relays, or there is some Type III (Leviathan class) civilization that prevents it. Either is fatal to the setting. I agree both that the Reapers' mandate as explained by Starkid would extend to all life, everywhere, and that therefore the Reapers should have harvested many galaxies. But like so much else in ME:A's premise, it's not really about making sense, it's about working to fight themselves out of the corner ME3 put them in for the sake of continuing the franchise. To do that, they can't have Reapers in Andromeda even if it makes sense they should be there. But... whatever. While I would have liked them to continue the story in the Milky Way, they were never going to do that, so it is what it is. I'm trying to make the most of the game despite the flimsy premise, and we won't know exactly how flimsy it is until launch, because of possible reveals. As long as the game itself, aside from the premise, is logical and well-written, I'll be satisfied. However, I suppose if they wanted to, they could have had relays in Andromeda placed there by the Reapers without having to deal with the endings, since the Reapers could have all been currently in the MW during ME3 with Andromeda being next on their harvesting list, leaving the possibility of advanced species being there. But as I said, they chose to have the Reapers only ever harvesting the MW, and I suppose that makes about as much sense as the rest of their mandate does, so On that note, it'll be interesting to see all of the species in Andromeda who haven't been "inevitably" wiped out by synthetics, and perhaps get along with them instead If you are talking about the FTL used by the Ai to reach Andromeda, it's not "super-duper". Do the math with standard FTL speeds and you'll find that it takes nearly 600 years to reach Andromeda. The only question is how they've managed to eliminate the need to discharge their drive core? The reapers didn't have this problem, so they couldn't flown to Andromeda any time they desired. They even could have done it faster, since their FTL speed is far superior to the galactic standard. Clearly, they didn't want to go. That's a question I've been waiting for an answer to since ME:A's announcement. While they could handwave that they reverse-engineered the tech from Sovereign (since as you say, the Reapers didn't have this problem), that still doesn't explain: 1. How they planned on making the trip in 2176, before they knew about Sovereign. 2. Why no one else wondered how the trip would work since as far as they knew, that tech didn't exist. I wonder how, or if, they'll explain this. As I said before, I'm not trying to be a downer, but some things are still pretty silly. It wasn't my thread that failed, buddy, it was your comprehension. Trying to detect something with RADAR/LADAR sensors at a distance of 2.5 million light years - which was the topic of my thread - will take 5 million years because the signal has to reach its intended target and then bounce back. But they wouldn't be using LADAR... Why would they? They're using a much simpler method of scanning Andromeda: Looking at it. Yes, with a really good telescope or perhaps an interferometric array, but it still comes down to simply looking at Andromeda, not sending out imaging pings. Not that it really matters anyway, the data being 2.5 million years out-of-date or 5 million.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 18, 2016 0:03:58 GMT
BansheeOwnage , I'm absolutely positive about the rifle barrels. Check the new MEA combat screenshots for accurate images of muzzle flash and the like. The top assembly was always supposed to be an integrated scope, but the eyepiece ended up getting left off of the gun in later designs. Some artists mistook them for double-barrels and drew them as you saw in the "two smoking barrels" pic. Even the devs themselves got in on multiplying the errors in ME3, adding barrel mods and muzzle flash to the scope instead of the barrel. To complete the confusion, we got scopes to add to our scopes. Excellent! Here's a link to a discussion about it on the ME wiki. I figured a quick Google search would reveal such, and I wasn't disappointed. If you read/skim the whole thing, their frustration is humorous. It mirrors my own. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Terrible_Assault_Rifle_scopes. and a subreddit discussion that's less meandering: www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/3w4hou/here_is_the_question_that_haunted_me_during_the/#bottom-commentsI have some ideas about how the discharge issue could be solved. Some sort of recovery/recycling system seems like a likely answer. Alternately, could the energy be discharged like an untargeted weapon? Most vessels discharge carefully under a fairly limited number of circumstances and conditions. Out in intergalactic space, though, could this energy be directed outward violently like a weapon blast? I don't know. I'm just spitballing, really. I like the recycling idea better. We will probably see biotics among Andromeda natives. The mass effect is universal. Even if they've not developed mass effect tech, there must be biotics in Andromeda. We won't necessarily meet them, and it would be kind of cool if biotics were new to the species we meet; but likely we will meet Kett and "other species" biotics.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 18, 2016 0:42:46 GMT
It wasn't my thread that failed, buddy, it was your comprehension. Trying to detect something with RADAR/LADAR sensors at a distance of 2.5 million light years - which was the topic of my thread - will take 5 million years because the signal has to reach its intended target and then bounce back. But they wouldn't be using LADAR... Why would they? They wouldn't, because of the inverse square law. Unless they have gamma ray burst-strength RADAR/LADAR emitters, which I'm not entirely sure would be sufficient. They're using a much simpler method of scanning Andromeda: Looking at it. Yes, with a really good telescope or perhaps an interferometric array, but it still comes down to simply looking at Andromeda, not sending out imaging pings. Not that it really matters anyway, the data being 2.5 million years out-of-date or 5 million. Traditionally BioWare has used the word "sensor" in Mass Effect to refer to RADAR/LADAR tech. Had they used the word telescope instead, I would not have made that connection.
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Post by corpusdei on Nov 18, 2016 12:50:18 GMT
... Traditionally BioWare has used the word "sensor" in Mass Effect to refer to RADAR/LADAR tech. Had they used the word telescope instead, I would not have made that connection. Seems a bit silly to actively scan Andromeda though when you know that's going to add 2.5 million years latency to your data; especially considering it's broadcasting all the time anyway and you can passively scan that broadcast.
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Post by bshep on Nov 18, 2016 13:27:45 GMT
... Traditionally BioWare has used the word "sensor" in Mass Effect to refer to RADAR/LADAR tech. Had they used the word telescope instead, I would not have made that connection. Seems a bit silly to actively scan Andromeda though when you know that's going to add 2.5 million years latency to your data; especially considering it's broadcasting all the time anyway and you can passively scan that broadcast. Actually i would add 5 million. 2.5 for the signal to reach andromeda and another 2.5 for it to come back.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 18, 2016 13:55:00 GMT
... Traditionally BioWare has used the word "sensor" in Mass Effect to refer to RADAR/LADAR tech. Had they used the word telescope instead, I would not have made that connection. Seems a bit silly to actively scan Andromeda though when you know that's going to add 2.5 million years latency to your data; especially considering it's broadcasting all the time anyway and you can passively scan that broadcast. Hey, I never said it made any sense. Very little of BioWare's writing makes any sense these days.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 18, 2016 14:06:29 GMT
Well, if they really want to establish trade routes between Andromeda and the Milky Way (which might well be just propaganda), a relay is needed. 600 years is a bit too much to go from one galaxy to another and trade stuff. Seems to me they could always drag a relay with them
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 18, 2016 14:10:37 GMT
Well, if they really want to establish trade routes between Andromeda and the Milky Way (which might well be just propaganda), a relay is needed. 600 years is a bit too much to go from one galaxy to another and trade stuff. Seems to me they could always drag a relay with them The Nexus' weird shape kind of works if they want to make it eventually a relay. I don't know if it'll be something they will implement, because the current cycle was behind the Protheans and they were able to work on just a one-way prototype. Beside, I think the orientation video and info seems a bit too like a propaganda that is hiding something.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 18, 2016 14:30:56 GMT
Seems to me they could always drag a relay with them The Nexus' weird shape kind of works if they want to make it eventually a relay. I don't know if it'll be something they will implement, because the current cycle was behind the Protheans and they were able to work on just a one-way prototype. Beside, I think the orientation video and info seems a bit too like a propaganda that is hiding something. I was suggesting that, rather than making their own Relay, they could just drag an existing Relay with them to Andromeda! Of course it would have to be one that nobody else was using
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 18, 2016 14:35:40 GMT
The Nexus' weird shape kind of works if they want to make it eventually a relay. I don't know if it'll be something they will implement, because the current cycle was behind the Protheans and they were able to work on just a one-way prototype. Beside, I think the orientation video and info seems a bit too like a propaganda that is hiding something. I was suggesting that, rather than making their own Relay, they could just drag an existing Relay with them to Andromeda! Of course it would have to be one that nobody else was using I see. That'd be a bit difficult I think
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Post by themikefest on Nov 18, 2016 14:57:21 GMT
I was suggesting that, rather than making their own Relay, they could just drag an existing Relay with them to Andromeda! Of course it would have to be one that nobody else was using That would be interesting. The Citadel is a relay and can move. Why not all the relay's? One theory I have is after the harvest, the reapers move the relays to areas to help the younger species advance faster so the reapers could show up 50 000 years later.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 15:12:23 GMT
I was suggesting that, rather than making their own Relay, they could just drag an existing Relay with them to Andromeda! Of course it would have to be one that nobody else was using That would be interesting. The Citadel is a relay and can move. Why not all the relay's? One theory I have is after the harvest, the reapers move the relays to areas to help the younger species advance faster so the reapers could show up 50 000 years later. Why not the Nexus being an itself a Mass Relay like the Citadel?
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Post by LFS on Nov 18, 2016 15:14:21 GMT
One theory I have is after the harvest, the reapers move the relays to areas to help the younger species advance faster so the reapers could show up 50 000 years later. Man, what a bunch of fuckin' trolls.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 18, 2016 15:15:03 GMT
That would be interesting. The Citadel is a relay and can move. Why not all the relay's? One theory I have is after the harvest, the reapers move the relays to areas to help the younger species advance faster so the reapers could show up 50 000 years later. Why not the Nexus being an itself a Mass Relay like the Citadel? Possible.
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Post by Thrombin on Nov 18, 2016 16:04:42 GMT
That would be interesting. The Citadel is a relay and can move. Why not all the relay's? One theory I have is after the harvest, the reapers move the relays to areas to help the younger species advance faster so the reapers could show up 50 000 years later. Why not the Nexus being an itself a Mass Relay like the Citadel? I think at the moment we don't have the technology to make our own but it's possible they're just carrying a pre-built one along inside the Nexus!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 18:02:19 GMT
Why not the Nexus being an itself a Mass Relay like the Citadel? I think at the moment we don't have the technology to make our own but it's possible they're just carrying a pre-built one along inside the Nexus! My thought was that perhaps they could have figured it out quickly by doing a reverse engineering of the Conduit the Protheans built on the Citadel... making it initially a plan to establish their own conduit from Andromeda to the Citadel (or perhaps they even just removed the one from the Ilos end). It might make it an enticing enough project to warrant private investment interest... basically send a group of people out there who really wanted to escape the Milky Way for various reasons... maybe to get away from gambling debts (lol)... to set up a mining camp/colony or colonies and send resources back to the Milky Way via the conduit. Of course, things could go terribly wrong and the relay not work after they arrive (perhaps because the Reapers moved the Citadel)... effectively cutting the Andromeda group off from the Milky Way.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Nov 18, 2016 20:11:24 GMT
Why not the Nexus being an itself a Mass Relay like the Citadel? I think at the moment we don't have the technology to make our own but it's possible they're just carrying a pre-built one along inside the Nexus! Even the protheans who were more advanced from a technology point of view were just starting to understand how to replicate de Mass Relay technology. By the way for that to work they would need to bring two relays, a start and ending point. Only the citadel was able to "open a wormhole" to bring the reapers from outside the galaxy. But i don't believe this will happen. Since the game is limited to one cluster of stars i think the ships will rely only on conventional FTL to travel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 20:28:23 GMT
I think at the moment we don't have the technology to make our own but it's possible they're just carrying a pre-built one along inside the Nexus! Even the protheans who were more advanced from a technology point of view were just starting to understand how to replicate de Mass Relay technology. By the way for that to work they would need to bring two relays, a start and ending point. Only the citadel was able to "open a wormhole" to bring the reapers from outside the galaxy. But i don't believe this will happen. Since the game is limited to one cluster of stars i think the ships will rely only on conventional FTL to travel. You're not following the idea here... a mission objective would be to set up a point that could connect to the Citadel relay. Leaving after the end of ME1 means that the Ilos mini-relay (conduit) is known to exist and to connect directly to the Relay statue on the Citadel... meaning that if the Ilos relay were picked up and moved, it represents a "ready-made" piece of tech that could establish a connection to the Citadel from wherever it is located. Since it's one-way, it wouldn't get people to Andromeda, but could be thought to be used to send resources from Andromeda to the Milky Way after they arrive there. If the lure in Andromeda is resources, then this might make some "investment" sense to a more eccentric group of private companies - perhaps Exo-Geni, who is said to be adept and re-purposing everything and anything and is not above imperiling their colonists' lives for the sake of profit.
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Post by Arcian on Nov 18, 2016 22:34:26 GMT
By the way for that to work they would need to bring two relays, a start and ending point. Only the citadel was able to "open a wormhole" to bring the reapers from outside the galaxy. That's an unnecessary assumption to make. The simpler conclusion is that they simply have a relay out in dark space linked to the Citadel that they hibernate around until it's killing time.
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Post by Element Zero on Nov 18, 2016 23:15:20 GMT
It's nice to hear ExoGeni mentioned, again. Mac confirmed Cerberus' non-involvement, to the joy of most, but I'd enjoy seeing some mention of the early corporations from Mass Effect in MEA. Their activities became less relevant as the OT headed toward all out war with the Reapers. ExoGeni could definitely be tied into the Ai narrative, though, as a nice nod to the OT. Other corporations could likewise find their way into the story in minor ways.
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