mikaelnovasun
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 546 Likes: 1,638
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mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 26, 2017 15:44:51 GMT
As much as I like Scifi and fantasy, I still like the characters to come across as human and real. Having everyone come on to Hawke took away an element of realism, and is part of why I really like Aveline. Her life did not completely revolve around Hawke. As much as I love the ME series I also have a problem with Shepard making choices for other characters. I had my own head canon going that several NPCs couldn't get indoctrinated by the reapers because Shepard already had them indoctrinated. I wish it was more based on Shepard's actions, and him/her not out right telling some characters what to do.
I also like how Ash and James hook up as a result of Shepard not romancing them, same with Garrus and Tali. I like seeing NPCs making their own decisions even romance wise. In DAII, it wasn't there, possibly due to development time or because of how everyone was "Hawke sexual". I was expecting Isabella and Fenris to hook up for at least a one night stand in my first pay through. Same with Leliana and Alistair in DAO.
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Post by xelander on Feb 26, 2017 16:13:05 GMT
I totally disagree with the entire premise of sexual orientation needing to be indicated with some arbitrary element of a character's personality, like some of the devs claim it should. While I understand what you are stating, how would you then fix something like the "player-sexual" issue? If there are no indications of a preference, then we merely have the same problem DAII had and bisexual fans will be offended by the implications of "bisexual erasure." Not to mention, others would be upset because squadmates wouldn't have an actual preference, but would bend to the player's will. That's hardly a solution. The whole reason BioWare even started this was largely in response to fan feedback. The indicator doesn't have to be blatantly obvious, with examples such as Dorian or Isabela. I'd argue Steve Cortez was a fantastic way of doing a same sex romance that wasn't over-the-top or stereotypical. The indication can be far more subtle, but I don't believe it would make any sense to eliminate it entirely. I think the problem stems from the medium in which the story is told. A book is a fixed story, a game is interactive. Since you can replay the story with variations each time, you need to define whether a "character" is what it is based on a singular playthrough, or whether a character is a meta-character, that is, the aggregate of all facets revealed through the variations of each possible playthrough. If you belong to the first group of people, then you are on the player-sexual side, and if you belong to the meta-character group, you are in the bisexual camp. Note that I'm talking about the largely immutable aspects of a person, like sexuality, things that are central to their being. E.g., you might be able to steer a companion to the dark side or the light side, but a sarcastic person will still develop into a sarcastic Jedi, or a sarcastic Sith (perhaps with that humor trait somewhat amplified or somewhat muted, but still there). Unfortunately, you will always have people in each group (each playthrough is canon vs. the common thread of all playthroughs is canon). That's something each person decides for his own self. From a game designer point of view, it becomes a trade-off between the resources you can expend addressing the issues of the second group of people and the risk of alienating said group. Personally, I belong to the meta-character camp, and while DAII romance situation wasn't something to make me stop playing, it certainly detracted from the pull the characters had on me (unlike, say DAO). Also, to keep this more Cora-related: God, that haircut is still so unflattering.
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JayKay
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: JayKay91939
Posts: 666 Likes: 1,405
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
JayKay91939
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Post by JayKay on Feb 26, 2017 16:27:42 GMT
As much as I like Scifi and fantasy, I still like the characters to come across as human and real. Having everyone come on to Hawke took away an element of realism, and is part of why I really like Aveline. Her life did not completely revolve around Hawke. As much as I love the ME series I also have a problem with Shepard making choices for other characters. I had my own head canon going that several NPCs couldn't get indoctrinated by the reapers because Shepard already had them indoctrinated. I wish it was more based on Shepard's actions, and him/her not out right telling some characters what to do.
I also like how Ash and James hook up as a result of Shepard not romancing them, same with Garrus and Tali. I like seeing NPCs making their own decisions even romance wise. In DAII, it wasn't there, possibly due to development time or because of how everyone was "Hawke sexual". I was expecting Isabella and Fenris to hook up for at least a one night stand in my first pay through. Same with Leliana and Alistair in DAO. Isabela and Fenris DO hookup in the third act, though. It's said in one of their banters.
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mikaelnovasun
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 546 Likes: 1,638
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mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 26, 2017 16:41:59 GMT
As much as I like Scifi and fantasy, I still like the characters to come across as human and real. Having everyone come on to Hawke took away an element of realism, and is part of why I really like Aveline. Her life did not completely revolve around Hawke. As much as I love the ME series I also have a problem with Shepard making choices for other characters. I had my own head canon going that several NPCs couldn't get indoctrinated by the reapers because Shepard already had them indoctrinated. I wish it was more based on Shepard's actions, and him/her not out right telling some characters what to do.
I also like how Ash and James hook up as a result of Shepard not romancing them, same with Garrus and Tali. I like seeing NPCs making their own decisions even romance wise. In DAII, it wasn't there, possibly due to development time or because of how everyone was "Hawke sexual". I was expecting Isabella and Fenris to hook up for at least a one night stand in my first pay through. Same with Leliana and Alistair in DAO. Isabela and Fenris DO hookup in the third act, though. It's said in one of their banters. I missed it then, I rarely had Fenris in my party. In ME it was hard to miss Ash/James or Garrus/Tail. ME actually showed you the result.
Anyway the point I was trying to make was that I prefer a sense of realism, and having all the characters interested in the player character removes part of the realism/role playing element.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Feb 26, 2017 17:23:09 GMT
What did Mac Walters say, exactly? Whenever you have a large group defined by one characteristic, be that straight men, lesbians, RPG lovers or whatever, you have to expect a huge amount of variation among them. "Making sense for the character" is a valid reason to go with certain storylines or not, but that should surely be decided based on all that character's traits and back story, not a single part. He was pretty vague about it, actually. "It [sexuality] has to make sense for the character." I don't know for certain what he means by that, but to me, it sounds like he's saying that he believes something in the character's personality or background has to sort of cooperate with their sexual orientation. And personally, I don't think it does. Writers really like to create catalysts for their characters every trait or idiosyncrasy a lot of the time (Indiana Jones hates snakes because he fell into a train car full of them one time, even though there are plenty of people who just hate snakes because it's a normal evolutionary impulse). I don't blame Mac for wanting to account for things, but I think he's boxing himself in. I think the opposite actually, Bioware seem to want to get far way from stereotypes even if those really do not exist in the media. Well it is actually another type of boxing I guess but if that was true Cora(looks like Ruby Rose and worked with a bunch of Asari) and Cassandra(warrior, values women and want to punch everyone in the face) would had been bi or lesbians because stereotypes?. I think there is nothing wrong with incorporating characters sexuality in the story or banter, things like having exes and what not. I like that but the devs really need to know what they are doing so it does not come as ridiculous(Sam shower scene) and the same is valid for straights.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 26, 2017 17:43:18 GMT
He was pretty vague about it, actually. "It [sexuality] has to make sense for the character." I don't know for certain what he means by that, but to me, it sounds like he's saying that he believes something in the character's personality or background has to sort of cooperate with their sexual orientation. And personally, I don't think it does. Writers really like to create catalysts for their characters every trait or idiosyncrasy a lot of the time (Indiana Jones hates snakes because he fell into a train car full of them one time, even though there are plenty of people who just hate snakes because it's a normal evolutionary impulse). I don't blame Mac for wanting to account for things, but I think he's boxing himself in. I think the opposite actually, Bioware seem to want to get far way from stereotypes even if those really do not exist in the media. Well it is actually another type of boxing I guess but if that was true Cora(looks like Ruby Rose and worked with a bunch of Asari) and Cassandra(warrior, values women and want to punch everyone in the face) would had been bi or lesbians because stereotypes?. I think there is nothing wrong with incorporating characters sexuality in the story or banter, things like having exes and what not. I like that but the devs really need to know what they are doing so it does not come as ridiculous(Sam shower scene) and the same is valid for straights. I think Cora (assuming she's only heterosexual) and Cassandra are actually two great examples of what many would assume are probably bisexual or lesbian just because of their looks or personality traits due to stereotypes. Whereas someone like Steve Cortez doesn't fit the stereotype for a homosexual, such as Dorian, yet is written in a way where he does bring up stories about his deceased husband through quality writing. I believe BioWare does have the writing prowess to actually write companions with clear and defined sexual orientations in a meaningful and tasteful way. I don't believe they have to resort to stereotypes or being incredibly overt for the player to understand whether that particular character is interested in one gender or the other. I do agree that I think it adds to the story and overall shaping and development of those characters.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
Posts: 1,303 Likes: 2,754
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Post by Mihura on Feb 26, 2017 18:01:59 GMT
I think the opposite actually, Bioware seem to want to get far way from stereotypes even if those really do not exist in the media. Well it is actually another type of boxing I guess but if that was true Cora(looks like Ruby Rose and worked with a bunch of Asari) and Cassandra(warrior, values women and want to punch everyone in the face) would had been bi or lesbians because stereotypes?. I think there is nothing wrong with incorporating characters sexuality in the story or banter, things like having exes and what not. I like that but the devs really need to know what they are doing so it does not come as ridiculous(Sam shower scene) and the same is valid for straights. I think Cora (assuming she's only heterosexual) and Cassandra are actually two great examples of what many would assume are probably bisexual or lesbian just because of their looks or personality traits due to stereotypes. Whereas someone like Steve Cortez doesn't fit the stereotype for a homosexual, such as Dorian, yet is written in a way where he does bring up stories about his deceased husband through quality writing. I believe BioWare does have the writing prowess to actually write companions with clear and defined sexual orientations in a meaningful and tasteful way. I don't believe they have to resort to stereotypes or being incredibly overt for the player to understand whether that particular character is interested in one gender or the other. I do agree that I think it adds to the story and overall shaping and development of those characters. There is nothing wrong with stereotypes, they exist for a reason and can be use smartly to bring new ideas forward. My favorite thing in art overall is the subversion of those. The problem is when they want so much to stay away from certain arctypes that, they start to create they own stereotypes. For example people knew instantly that Liam and Cora were probably straight, why? well because they are the human companions. People knew also that Peebee is probably going to be bi and a romance, why? because she is an Asari... etc. Also I think they need to listen more the their LGBTQ+ players for those characters and forget about looking cool for the bro gamers, everyone that plays Mass Effect should be an adult by now and juvenile scenes are unnecessary, it is better to be fun and ridiculous. I honestly never enjoyed their lesbian romances which is strange as fuck, I mean I play all type of characters from romancing Alistair to Liara so I am not really picky but damn they fail hard on those.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 26, 2017 18:18:30 GMT
I think Cora (assuming she's only heterosexual) and Cassandra are actually two great examples of what many would assume are probably bisexual or lesbian just because of their looks or personality traits due to stereotypes. Whereas someone like Steve Cortez doesn't fit the stereotype for a homosexual, such as Dorian, yet is written in a way where he does bring up stories about his deceased husband through quality writing. I believe BioWare does have the writing prowess to actually write companions with clear and defined sexual orientations in a meaningful and tasteful way. I don't believe they have to resort to stereotypes or being incredibly overt for the player to understand whether that particular character is interested in one gender or the other. I do agree that I think it adds to the story and overall shaping and development of those characters. There is nothing wrong with stereotypes, they exist for a reason and can be use smartly to bring new ideas forward. My favorite thing in art overall is the subversion of those. The problem is when they want so much to stay away from certain arctypes that, they start to create they own stereotypes. For example people knew instantly that Liam and Cora were probably straight, why? well because they are the human companions. People knew also that Peebee is probably going to be bi and a romance, why? because she is an Asari... etc. Also I think they need to listen more the their LGBTQ+ players for those characters and forget about looking cool for the bro gamers, everyone that plays Mass Effect should be an adult by now and juvenile scenes are unnecessary, it is better to be fun and ridiculous. I honestly never enjoyed their lesbian romances which is strange as fuck, I mean I play all type of characters from romancing Alistair to Liara so I am not really picky but damn they fail hard on those. Yea, I think to listen even more to fans then they already do isn't necessarily a good thing... I heard that argument before, and it sadly doesn't hold up. Listening to - or even hiring - members of any "special" group, only because they are part of said group, usually doesn't end you up with good writers, but with advocates. You don't have to be an astronaut to write about space travel or a mass murderer to write about serial killers - all you have to be is a good writer.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
Posts: 1,303 Likes: 2,754
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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mihura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 26, 2017 18:25:50 GMT
There is nothing wrong with stereotypes, they exist for a reason and can be use smartly to bring new ideas forward. My favorite thing in art overall is the subversion of those. The problem is when they want so much to stay away from certain arctypes that, they start to create they own stereotypes. For example people knew instantly that Liam and Cora were probably straight, why? well because they are the human companions. People knew also that Peebee is probably going to be bi and a romance, why? because she is an Asari... etc. Also I think they need to listen more the their LGBTQ+ players for those characters and forget about looking cool for the bro gamers, everyone that plays Mass Effect should be an adult by now and juvenile scenes are unnecessary, it is better to be fun and ridiculous. I honestly never enjoyed their lesbian romances which is strange as fuck, I mean I play all type of characters from romancing Alistair to Liara so I am not really picky but damn they fail hard on those. Yea, I think to listen even more to fans then they already do isn't necessarily a good thing... I heard that argument before, and it sadly doesn't hold up. Listening to - or even hiring - members of any "special" group, only because they are part of said group, usually doesn't end you up with good writers, but with advocates. You don't have to be an astronaut to write about space travel or a mass murderer to write about serial killers - all you have to be is a good writer.Hummm I have to say you are wrong here, good writing comes with experience or heavy research on the topic and talking with people that know is a given. I am going even more far and say, for example if you want to study certain fields of history, living some days as those past individuals helps you understand a lot better their lives and style of life. Saying that they should not hear what lesbians want for their romances makes no sense, especially when Walters stated it had to "make sense", how is going to make sense than?
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Pathfinder
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 26, 2017 18:48:40 GMT
Yea, I think to listen even more to fans then they already do isn't necessarily a good thing... I heard that argument before, and it sadly doesn't hold up. Listening to - or even hiring - members of any "special" group, only because they are part of said group, usually doesn't end you up with good writers, but with advocates. You don't have to be an astronaut to write about space travel or a mass murderer to write about serial killers - all you have to be is a good writer.Hummm I have to say you are wrong here, good writing comes with experience or heavy research on the topic and talking with people that know is a given. I am going even more far and say, for example if you want to study certain fields of history, living some days as those past individuals helps you understand a lot better their lives and style of life. Saying that they should not hear what lesbians want for their romances makes no sense, especially when Walters stated it had to "make sense", how is going to make sense than? History is a great example. It's why any credible historian relies on primary sources (actual journals written by individuals at the time) rather than secondary sources to get objective facts about what that culture was like at the time. Especially with writing, the more experience and perspectives the writer has, the better. Writers, just like everybody else, are going to have their own opinions, views, and biases. In order to overcome that, it's absolutely necessary to be open-minded and willing to listen to other perspectives and ideas if you are going to make a character that doesn't look like you and doesn't share your values. Either way, I'd have to say this is one of the strongest lineup of squadmates we've ever had in a BioWare game, in my opinion. Typically, there's always one or two companions I am indifferent about. However, every companion in this game seems to be refreshing and interesting. I'm definitely going to enjoy doing all of their loyalty missions, especially Cora due to her surname as well as her background with asari commandos.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 26, 2017 18:54:07 GMT
Yea, I think to listen even more to fans then they already do isn't necessarily a good thing... I heard that argument before, and it sadly doesn't hold up. Listening to - or even hiring - members of any "special" group, only because they are part of said group, usually doesn't end you up with good writers, but with advocates. You don't have to be an astronaut to write about space travel or a mass murderer to write about serial killers - all you have to be is a good writer.Hummm I have to say you are wrong here, good writing comes with experience or heavy research on the topic and talking with people that know is a given. I am going even more far and say, for example if you want to study certain fields of history, living some days as those past individuals helps you understand a lot better their lives and style of life. Saying that they should not hear what lesbians want for their romances makes no sense, especially when Walters stated it had to "make sense", how is going to make sense than? True - if they want to listen, that is. Problem with fiction is: It's generally "write what you know". Fiction is not reality, it's an artists rendition of the writers own experiences and fantasies, not somebody else'. Many people - especially with movies and (story driven) games - forget that, but it's not a collaborative experience where the audiences wants and needs matter, it's still a journey into another persons imagination. Edit - @ Revan Reborn: No, sorry, but that's exactly not what a writer is supposed to do... that's the biggest problem with audiences these days, that they are convinced a writer should take their audiences experiences and perspectives into account.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 19:01:08 GMT
Hummm I have to say you are wrong here, good writing comes with experience or heavy research on the topic and talking with people that know is a given. I am going even more far and say, for example if you want to study certain fields of history, living some days as those past individuals helps you understand a lot better their lives and style of life. Saying that they should not hear what lesbians want for their romances makes no sense, especially when Walters stated it had to "make sense", how is going to make sense than? History is a great example. It's why any credible historian relies on primary sources (actual journals written by individuals at the time) rather than secondary sources to get objective facts about what that culture was like at the time. Especially with writing, the more experience and perspectives the writer has, the better. Writers, just like everybody else, are going to have their own opinions, views, and biases. In order to overcome that, it's absolutely necessary to be open-minded and willing to listen to other perspectives and ideas if you are going to make a character that doesn't look like you and doesn't share your values. Either way, I'd have to say this is one of the strongest lineup of squadmates we've ever had in a BioWare game, in my opinion. Typically, there's always one or two companions I am indifferent about. However, every companion in this game seems to be refreshing and interesting. I'm definitely going to enjoy doing all of their loyalty missions, especially Cora due to her surname as well as her background with asari commandos. Yep, I'm actually surprised that I don't find any particular squadmate unappealing or bland. All of them at least aesthetically seem to have something that makes them stand out in a great way. Comparisons can be made to old characters to point out similarities, but judging from what we know so far it seems like each squadmate this time around is their own character and not a reskin of an old one.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 26, 2017 19:11:33 GMT
Edit - @ Revan Reborn: No, sorry, but that's exactly not what a writer is supposed to do... that's the biggest problem with audiences these days, that they are convinced a writer should take their audiences experiences and perspectives into account. Agree to disagree. If you aren't willing to expand your horizon and understand different perspectives, I don't see how any quality writer can do a story with competing viewpoints different from their own. It's worth pointing out that BioWare games, in particular, are not just written by one writer. They have a team of writers who bounce ideas off of each other to further round out the entire experience. We can also look at some of the most iconic franchises of all time, such as Star Wars. The original trilogy wasn't just George Lucas' imagination. It was a collaborative effort of many writers, artists, directors, and producers who expanded and grew Lucas' original concept far beyond what he ever imagined. Writing, whether fiction or not, comes from experiences that are oftentimes more than just your own. The best writers learn to take from a large pool of ideas to create the most compelling and interesting stories. History is a great example. It's why any credible historian relies on primary sources (actual journals written by individuals at the time) rather than secondary sources to get objective facts about what that culture was like at the time. Especially with writing, the more experience and perspectives the writer has, the better. Writers, just like everybody else, are going to have their own opinions, views, and biases. In order to overcome that, it's absolutely necessary to be open-minded and willing to listen to other perspectives and ideas if you are going to make a character that doesn't look like you and doesn't share your values. Either way, I'd have to say this is one of the strongest lineup of squadmates we've ever had in a BioWare game, in my opinion. Typically, there's always one or two companions I am indifferent about. However, every companion in this game seems to be refreshing and interesting. I'm definitely going to enjoy doing all of their loyalty missions, especially Cora due to her surname as well as her background with asari commandos. Yep, I'm actually surprised that I don't find any particular squadmate unappealing or bland. All of them at least aesthetically seem to have something that makes them stand out in a great way. Comparisons can be made to old characters to point out similarities, but judging from what we know so far it seems like each squadmate this time around is their own character and not a reskin of an old one. Agreed. I think BioWare has really outdone themselves just by the initial marketing we've had on each companion. They aren't relying too much on what they've done before and they are providing new, refreshing, and different takes on these companions.
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
Posts: 1,303 Likes: 2,754
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 26, 2017 19:17:14 GMT
From a design point of view this cast is great actually, I agree. There is no one, that I am not at least interest in knowing a little. I love Jaal color scheme, very 80s, also love Peebee cowboy vibe and Drack rocky appearance and of course Cora ass widow . I am glad they did a small squad this time around, it feel a lot more flesh out than previews ones.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 26, 2017 19:18:56 GMT
From a design point of view this cast is great actually, I agree. There is no one, that I am not at least interest in knowing a little. I love Jaal color scheme, very 80s, also love Peebee cowboy vibe and Drack rocky appearance and of course Cora ass widow I am glad they did a small squad this time around, it feel a lot more flesh out than previews ones. Yup, me too... I really hope they actually make it work this time.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Feb 26, 2017 21:08:03 GMT
Isabela and Fenris DO hookup in the third act, though. It's said in one of their banters. I missed it then, I rarely had Fenris in my party. In ME it was hard to miss Ash/James or Garrus/Tail. ME actually showed you the result.
Anyway the point I was trying to make was that I prefer a sense of realism, and having all the characters interested in the player character removes part of the realism/role playing element.
And yet the actual criticism you offered as evidence of that facet of DA2 was oppositional to what actually occurred in game. Not only do Fenris and Isabella definitely hook if don't romance one of them, they also still flirt even if you do. Beyond that, a lot of the perception of DA2 being extreme in this aspect is fueled by exaggeration. Four out of seven is hardly "all." And as for their lives revolving around Hawke: Ha. All four of them have obsessions in their lives that they prioritize above the romance.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Feb 26, 2017 21:16:32 GMT
He was pretty vague about it, actually. "It [sexuality] has to make sense for the character." I don't know for certain what he means by that, but to me, it sounds like he's saying that he believes something in the character's personality or background has to sort of cooperate with their sexual orientation. And personally, I don't think it does. Writers really like to create catalysts for their characters every trait or idiosyncrasy a lot of the time (Indiana Jones hates snakes because he fell into a train car full of them one time, even though there are plenty of people who just hate snakes because it's a normal evolutionary impulse). I don't blame Mac for wanting to account for things, but I think he's boxing himself in. I think the opposite actually, Bioware seem to want to get far way from stereotypes even if those really do not exist in the media. Well it is actually another type of boxing I guess but if that was true Cora(looks like Ruby Rose and worked with a bunch of Asari) and Cassandra(warrior, values women and want to punch everyone in the face) would had been bi or lesbians because stereotypes?. I think there is nothing wrong with incorporating characters sexuality in the story or banter, things like having exes and what not. I like that but the devs really need to know what they are doing so it does not come as ridiculous(Sam shower scene) and the same is valid for straights. For one, I was talking about Mac Walters in specific, not Bioware in general. He hardly embodies the entire company. And certainly, the characters sexuality being mentioned or indicated in the banter would simply be one of the useful ways of expressing characterization or LI availability I mentioned on the previous page. There's a significant difference between doing that, and thinking that only certain personality types or backgrounds "make sense" with certain sexualities. But hey, Walters could have meant the former rather than the latter. I certainly hope so.
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 26, 2017 21:31:51 GMT
Can I say this?
I have a thing for the 'blue babe' trope. Asari, Drow/blue elves, Twi'lek, Chiss... but man oh man, is Cora hitting the sweet spot of punk badass soldier girl.
Going to be reeeeaaaal hard for my socially sarcastic/military professional BroRyder to choose.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 27, 2017 0:02:25 GMT
Can I say this? I have a thing for the 'blue babe' trope. Asari, Drow/blue elves, Twi'lek, Chiss... but man oh man, is Cora hitting the sweet spot of punk badass soldier girl. Going to be reeeeaaaal hard for my socially sarcastic/military professional BroRyder to choose. While a relationship with multiple companions has never really been possible in previous games, maybe MEA could be a first?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 0:10:41 GMT
Can I say this? I have a thing for the 'blue babe' trope. Asari, Drow/blue elves, Twi'lek, Chiss... but man oh man, is Cora hitting the sweet spot of punk badass soldier girl. Going to be reeeeaaaal hard for my socially sarcastic/military professional BroRyder to choose. While a relationship with multiple companions has never really been possible in previous games, maybe MEA could be a first? I generally choose one love interest in Bioware's games and stick with it. I find it kind of devalues the romance plots if you're actively having these supposedly seriously romantic conversations with more than one LI at a time. Only way I would romance 2 in one playthrough would be to break things up with the current LI and then get with the next. Only exception was DAO for the banter, but you didn't really have to romance both characters, just flirt with them and they just fight over you.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 27, 2017 0:21:52 GMT
While a relationship with multiple companions has never really been possible in previous games, maybe MEA could be a first? I generally choose one love interest in Bioware's games and stick with it. I find it kind of devalues the romance plots if you're actively having these supposedly seriously romantic conversations with more than one LI at a time. Only way I would romance 2 in one playthrough would be to break things up with the current LI and then get with the next. Only exception was DAO for the banter, but you didn't really have to romance both characters, just flirt with them and they just fight over you. To be quite honest, I just do it to see what happens lol. I'm curious how BioWare resolves the issue. In ME1, you are literally forced to pick between Ash and Liara. The same thing happens between Miranda and Jack in ME2. DAO was completely an accident on my part because I accidentally skipped Leliana (never went into the Lothering Inn) and picked her up later. There wasn't really a fight between Josephine and Cassandra in DAI, but Leliana did get mad. MEA has more depth with relationships more so than any previous game, and more types of romance. I'm going to expect some very interesting conversation choices if you try and romance multiple companions.
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Feb 27, 2017 0:23:39 GMT
Can I say this? I have a thing for the 'blue babe' trope. Asari, Drow/blue elves, Twi'lek, Chiss... but man oh man, is Cora hitting the sweet spot of punk badass soldier girl. Going to be reeeeaaaal hard for my socially sarcastic/military professional BroRyder to choose. While a relationship with multiple companions has never really been possible in previous games, maybe MEA could be a first? Considering how approval is a thing in this game now plus what we've seen of Cora's personality, I doubt she'd approve of multiple relationships
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 27, 2017 0:28:32 GMT
While a relationship with multiple companions has never really been possible in previous games, maybe MEA could be a first? Considering how approval is a thing in this game now plus what we've seen of Cora's personality, I doubt she'd approve of multiple relationships I don't think most of the squadmates would approve of multiple partners (perhaps Peebee). However, we have heard that apparently Cora is quite freaky, so who knows what she might be into?
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Post by Lawrence0294 on Feb 27, 2017 1:32:22 GMT
Considering how approval is a thing in this game now plus what we've seen of Cora's personality, I doubt she'd approve of multiple relationships we have heard that apparently Cora is quite freaky, so who knows what she might be into? What are you referencing exactly ? Oh and hello everyone, lurk mode off =p
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Post by naytnavare on Feb 27, 2017 1:52:34 GMT
... I only meant, I like both, gonna be hard to choose one or the other. Not that I'd try for a twomance playthrough.
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