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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 11, 2017 5:38:00 GMT
Also, I'm really just here to rant that Cora better not be a DudeRyder romance only. I don't wanna play as DudeRyder! If Ashley and Miranda are any indication, odds are Cora will be straight I know... And that pissed me off to no end in ME1, didn't really care in ME2 lol, but luckily I actually liked DudeShep thanks to Vanderloo (he looked military) and Mark Meer's voice acting. So playing DudeShep wasn't so bad. I don't really care for Scott much yet. But I like the way Cora looks. But, once again, as FemRyder I'll probably be stuck with Asari or dudes for LIs =/
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 11, 2017 5:38:44 GMT
Also, I'm really just here to rant that Cora better not be a DudeRyder romance only. I don't wanna play as DudeRyder! If Ashley and Miranda are any indication, odds are Cora will be straight Well for what it's worth, if there's any character likely to break that precedent and address fan complaints about it, I believe it's Cora.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 11, 2017 5:40:31 GMT
Could be worse, could be like this haircut and actually look like trump. smh, poor cassie. lmao Yeah not a fan of MK-X or its "next generation". The series' peak was MK9. And here, just to show I don't seek the Final Solution for short hair everywhere, he's a video game character that makes it work: Dana Mercer from Prototype:
Hair suits the face and overall look, no stupid shaved bullshit. Lookin good. She's a college student in the first game and a "underground hacker" in the second so not exactly military. But if you made it a bit more orderly and got it out of her eye in the second shot, it'd be perfectly serviceable for a more disciplined character as well. Actually while we're at it let's go to its rival franchise InFamous. The second game gives us Lucy Kuo, NSA Agent: After she gets powers. Again more stylized bangs, to suit her new persona/look whatever. But still, perfectly serviceable short hair.
Dude... I hear you. MK9 was my jam! I loved that shit. Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of short hair (but for some reason it works on Cora for me). When it's short, I prefer it to be like Ashley's where it's not actually short, just up in some sort of bun or ponytail. That way, it can still be serious, military, or practical, but look good as well.
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Post by readher on Feb 11, 2017 7:44:51 GMT
Could be worse, could be like this haircut and actually look like trump. smh, poor cassie. lmao Yeah not a fan of MK-X or its "next generation". The series' peak was MK9. And here, just to show I don't seek the Final Solution for short hair everywhere, he's a video game character that makes it work: Dana Mercer from Prototype: Hair suits the face and overall look, no stupid shaved bullshit. Lookin good. She's a college student in the first game and a "underground hacker" in the second so not exactly military. But if you made it a bit more orderly and got it out of her eye in the second shot, it'd be perfectly serviceable for a more disciplined character as well. Actually while we're at it let's go to its rival franchise InFamous. The second game gives us Lucy Kuo, NSA Agent: And (actual spoiler for Infamous 2 (if you care): After she gets powers. Again more stylized bangs, to suit her new persona/look whatever. But still, perfectly serviceable short hair. Another important point is that she looks feminine. Compare that to Cassandra who not only had very short hair but also manly face and arguably voice. It was simply too much, especially for someone like me who hates short hair on women in the first place (but I'm willing to make exceptions). On topic of Cora, with her bio and info we got recently I can only imagine her being very serious during missions. LT in Alliance and trained with Asari commandos. We know Asari commandos are basically the most elite unit (Benezia's famous quote in ME1 and Liara's other mother talk on how Asari specialize in infiltration etc.). Unless BW shows again that they don't care about military logic (they don't have problems like that in SWTOR, why does ME always get shafted in that regard?), then she'd have to be very professional and good at her job to pass Asari commando training.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 9:52:46 GMT
If Ashley and Miranda are any indication, odds are Cora will be straight Well for what it's worth, if there's any character likely to break that precedent and address fan complaints about it, I believe it's Cora. There are speculation based on leaked info on romance that Peebee will be bi. I personally doubt we'll get another bi Ll in the squad, but I made the argument already for Vetra. I can be wrong. Either way, between Vetra, Cora and Peebee, someone was clearly going to get disappointed.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 11, 2017 18:10:18 GMT
Another important point is that she looks feminine. Compare that to Cassandra who not only had very short hair but also manly face and arguably voice. It was simply too much, especially for someone like me who hates short hair on women in the first place (but I'm willing to make exceptions). On topic of Cora, with her bio and info we got recently I can only imagine her being very serious during missions. LT in Alliance and trained with Asari commandos. We know Asari commandos are basically the most elite unit (Benezia's famous quote in ME1 and Liara's other mother talk on how Asari specialize in infiltration etc.). Unless BW shows again that they don't care about military logic (they don't have problems like that in SWTOR, why does ME always get shafted in that regard?), then she'd have to be very professional and good at her job to pass Asari commando training. I don't know DA. I know people always bring up this Cassandra character but from what I've seen it's another cases of prominent jawline being unflatteringly framed by a shitty short cut. Haven't heard her voice or seen her mannerisms so there could be more, I'm just going by stills. But yeah this sort of problem can be traced to a few simple details that if developers were aware of and willing to avoid, so much of this could be fixed. I made my case in this post on this very thread. It was mostly ignored in favor of bitching about trolls so.. y'know, internet. As for Cora's demeanor I expect a level of sardonic dry wit, possibly some levels of sarcasm. We know she's professional but I figure the pure stick up the bum will be Vetra since that's the turian's hat and they're already breaking one tradition with the Hamburgler who'll supply the goofy antics. Plus, you gotta have a sense of humor, what with that hair! There are speculation based on leaked info on romance that Peebee will be bi. I personally doubt we'll get another bi Ll in the squad, but I made the argument already for Vetra. I can be wrong. Either way, between Vetra, Cora and Peebee, someone was clearly going to get disappointed. Well, yeah but she's asari. Pretty sure that's a given and most diehards about these kinds of things don't count asari for some reason. Turian romance never made sense to me (come at me Garrus fangirls) since turians are decidedly less humanoid than the other options which are basically blue space babes and purple space babes in suits, or reptile dudes. So a turian attracted not just to humans but to both sexes would be that much further off the reservation in my opinion. I think Cora's a good candidate because of her background with the asari. It's easy to write in a past flame during her time with them and use that to justify why she may also be interested in someone of the female persuasion.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 18:24:33 GMT
If Cora's bi, it won't be because she was with asari. Not that she couldn't have a girlfriend there, but the kind of reasoning that just because she was with them it means it's more likely she's bisexual is odd to me (not saying you stated that, but I read that in other threads). The fact that Peebee is an asari doesn't change, in my opinion, that she's a female, and the bisexual LI. While we might get more, in either Cora, Vetra, or other characters, I don't think one of the other female squadmates could be bi LI just because asari don't count. The (various) leak seem to imply the human squadmates won't be bi, but I guess we'll have to wait and see for the game. They won't reveal this info before.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 11, 2017 18:49:10 GMT
If Cora's bi, it won't be because she was with asari. Not that she couldn't have a girlfriend there, but the kind of reasoning that just because she was with them it means it's more likely she's bisexual is odd to me (not saying you stated that, but I read that in other threads). The fact that Peebee is an asari doesn't change, in my opinion, that she's a female, and the bisexual LI. While we might get more, in either Cora, Vetra, or other characters, I don't think one of the other female squadmates could be bi LI just because asari don't count. The (various) leak seem to imply the human squadmates won't be bi, but I guess we'll have to wait and see for the game. They won't reveal this info before. Why? We know Cora likes guys, it may be that she never considered a female romance or was attracted by the idea until getting close to an asari. That doesn't have to be the case either way but the possibility is more apparent I think. Remember how Liara didn't count for a lesbian romance (apparently) and the debates didn't stop until we got Traynor? Why would this be any different? Kaidan actually also ended up filling a bisexual role in ME3 albeit a male one. Ehh. This is why they should just go the playersexual route but not have preferences explicitly stated in-universe. You avert the "everyone is bisexual, therefore unrealistic" thing and still give everyone what they want. Or at least more of what they want. Can't please everyone.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 18:55:34 GMT
On that point though, she might like asari and not human females. If asari don't count, then they shouldn't group up asari and humans as the same. The part about Liara not being a lesbian romance was ridicolous, as well as the explanation, and I *think* they said they were wrong. I do think they count asari as female and bisexual LI now.
I personally don't care either way, because I don't mind some romances being lock out to my favorite gender option (I play female characters as well in any case), but I don't think they really ever wanted to go the playersexual route. DA2 was, in my opinion, a compromise they picked between giving everyone more then one option and the limited resources they had. Which is reasonable considering the one year of development and the fact they didn't make Seb bisexual.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 11, 2017 19:09:41 GMT
On that point though, she might like asari and not human females. If asari don't count, then they shouldn't group up asari and humans as the same. The part about Liara not being a lesbian romance was ridicolous, as well as the explanation, and I *think* they said they were wrong. I do think they count asari as female and bisexual LI now. I personally don't care either way, because I don't mind some romances being lock out to my favorite gender option (I play female characters as well in any case), but I don't think they really ever wanted to go the playersexual route. DA2 was, in my opinion, a compromise they picked between giving everyone more then one option and the limited resources they had. Which is reasonable considering the one year of development and the fact they didn't make Seb bisexual. Who's "they" though? BioWare or the fans? I agree with you, Liara and asari in general are as female as they come. But the complaints to the contrary didn't come from the devs and do you see fans changing their minds? Especially those who for one reason or another feel this should be a social issue thing? I've made this argument in another thread but the playersexual route is actually the most efficient and resource-friendly way to give as many different people something they could get behind. Rather than loads of different characters each catering to one niche but as a result stretching them too thin and getting subpar content, have a few versatile characters more well developed that can appeal across the board. Even if you have resources to spend, spend on making the existing characters better or on other aspects of the game, rather than trying to make an NPC for every single sexual attraction under the sun.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 11, 2017 20:34:59 GMT
On that point though, she might like asari and not human females. If asari don't count, then they shouldn't group up asari and humans as the same. The part about Liara not being a lesbian romance was ridicolous, as well as the explanation, and I *think* they said they were wrong. I do think they count asari as female and bisexual LI now. I personally don't care either way, because I don't mind some romances being lock out to my favorite gender option (I play female characters as well in any case), but I don't think they really ever wanted to go the playersexual route. DA2 was, in my opinion, a compromise they picked between giving everyone more then one option and the limited resources they had. Which is reasonable considering the one year of development and the fact they didn't make Seb bisexual. Who's "they" though? BioWare or the fans? I agree with you, Liara and asari in general are as female as they come. But the complaints to the contrary didn't come from the devs and do you see fans changing their minds? Especially those who for one reason or another feel this should be a social issue thing? I've made this argument in another thread but the playersexual route is actually the most efficient and resource-friendly way to give as many different people something they could get behind. Rather than loads of different characters each catering to one niche but as a result stretching them too thin and getting subpar content, have a few versatile characters more well developed that can appeal across the board. Even if you have resources to spend, spend on making the existing characters better or on other aspects of the game, rather than trying to make an NPC for every single sexual attraction under the sun. I had a strong dislike for how everyone was "Hawke" in their sexual orientation in DA2, it made sense for Isabella, not so much for Anders given his comments in Awakening. A non player character's sexuality should not be based on the player character. A person's sexuality is strongly tied to their experiences and their identity. Why should it be different for fictional characters? Isn't the goal to make well written characters that seem like real people? I think it adds to a NPC's depth and makes them more realistic when their preferences are not based around the PC. Having every NPC being into the PC breaks the immersion factor. Having Anders coming on to me when I avoided all flirt lines and often sided against him threw me for a loop. I had the same thing happen in ME3 in the single play through where I had saved Kaiden instead of Ash. His interest in male Shepard seemed to come out of nowhere.
I love the female inquisitor's relationship with Dorian. More relationships like that could add more humor and trolling of other characters, not so much if Dorian was into both male and female inquisitors. And it would have been a disservice to his back story.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 21:25:43 GMT
I've made this argument in another thread but the playersexual route is actually the most efficient and resource-friendly way to give as many different people something they could get behind. Rather than loads of different characters each catering to one niche but as a result stretching them too thin and getting subpar content, have a few versatile characters more well developed that can appeal across the board. Even if you have resources to spend, spend on making the existing characters better or on other aspects of the game, rather than trying to make an NPC for every single sexual attraction under the sun. That's always been my preference, too. More content for everyone. Representation matters, but that can be done with other character couples in the world. Unless a character has an orientation-specific backstory (ala Dorian), spouse or ex-spouse, there's just no good reason for the writers to define NPC's sexuality. Though I can appreciate the idea that it's an important part of identity, the only part of NPC's characterization that is impacted by orientation is... who they might romance. Anything else that is "known" about a character due to a defined sexuality is simply perception/observation on the part of the observer. So long as they write clear friendship versus romance paths and give players full knowledge and control over flirtatious dialogue, I see no valid reason to gender gate romances.
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Post by Lorn on Feb 11, 2017 21:33:08 GMT
Who's "they" though? BioWare or the fans? I agree with you, Liara and asari in general are as female as they come. But the complaints to the contrary didn't come from the devs and do you see fans changing their minds? Especially those who for one reason or another feel this should be a social issue thing? I've made this argument in another thread but the playersexual route is actually the most efficient and resource-friendly way to give as many different people something they could get behind. Rather than loads of different characters each catering to one niche but as a result stretching them too thin and getting subpar content, have a few versatile characters more well developed that can appeal across the board. Even if you have resources to spend, spend on making the existing characters better or on other aspects of the game, rather than trying to make an NPC for every single sexual attraction under the sun. I had a strong dislike for how everyone was "Hawke" in their sexual orientation in DA2, it made sense for Isabella, not so much for Anders given his comments in Awakening. A non player character's sexuality should not be based on the player character. A person's sexuality is strongly tied to their experiences and their identity. Why should it be different for fictional characters? Isn't the goal to make well written characters that seem like real people? I think it adds to a NPC's depth and makes them more realistic when their preferences are not based around the PC. Having every NPC being into the PC breaks the immersion factor. Having Anders coming on to me when I avoided all flirt lines and often sided against him threw me for a loop. I had the same thing happen in ME3 in the single play through where I had saved Kaiden instead of Ash. His interest in male Shepard seemed to come out of nowhere.
I love the female inquisitor's relationship with Dorian. More relationships like that could add more humor and trolling of other characters, not so much if Dorian was into both male and female inquisitors. And it would have been a disservice to his back story.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 21:40:09 GMT
I had a strong dislike for how everyone was "Hawke" in their sexual orientation in DA2, it made sense for Isabella, not so much for Anders given his comments in Awakening. A non player character's sexuality should not be based on the player character. A person's sexuality is strongly tied to their experiences and their identity. Why should it be different for fictional characters? Isn't the goal to make well written characters that seem like real people? I think it adds to a NPC's depth and makes them more realistic when their preferences are not based around the PC. Having every NPC being into the PC breaks the immersion factor. Having Anders coming on to me when I avoided all flirt lines and often sided against him threw me for a loop. I had the same thing happen in ME3 in the single play through where I had saved Kaiden instead of Ash. His interest in male Shepard seemed to come out of nowhere.
I love the female inquisitor's relationship with Dorian. More relationships like that could add more humor and trolling of other characters, not so much if Dorian was into both male and female inquisitors. And it would have been a disservice to his back story.
... and that impacts how any of these fictional characters are written in a fictional world where orientation isn't a big deal ... how exactly?
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 11, 2017 21:45:47 GMT
I had a strong dislike for how everyone was "Hawke" in their sexual orientation in DA2, it made sense for Isabella, not so much for Anders given his comments in Awakening. A non player character's sexuality should not be based on the player character. A person's sexuality is strongly tied to their experiences and their identity. Why should it be different for fictional characters? Isn't the goal to make well written characters that seem like real people? I think it adds to a NPC's depth and makes them more realistic when their preferences are not based around the PC. Having every NPC being into the PC breaks the immersion factor. Having Anders coming on to me when I avoided all flirt lines and often sided against him threw me for a loop. I had the same thing happen in ME3 in the single play through where I had saved Kaiden instead of Ash. His interest in male Shepard seemed to come out of nowhere.
I love the female inquisitor's relationship with Dorian. More relationships like that could add more humor and trolling of other characters, not so much if Dorian was into both male and female inquisitors. And it would have been a disservice to his back story.
Funny how the exact opposite of the underlined seemed to be argued about Kaidan in ME3. Or whenever a character other than hetero is criticised. I also never said every NPC should be into the PC. Quite the contrary. I had a user explain that he dislikes the playersexual option because he feels it diminishes LGBT. I disagree, but that's another matter. The point is you could make a compromise for even that viewpoint by including characters with very overt sexuality that aren't interested in the PC (either sex) for whatever reason. That checks your promoting positive LGBT representation (if they are LGBT), "realism", "immersion" and "not everyone should want to bone me" check boxes all in one go. But there are plently of people who argue that sexuality doesn't have to be justified, explained or even brought up unnecessarily. So expand that to the designated romance characters, whoever they are. Do they need to be explicitly labeled? No, clearly not. Some NPCs are looking for love (however that may manifest), some aren't. I don't see how you could get more "equal" or "realistic" than that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 22:00:11 GMT
I think maybe some people are confusing sexuality, with sexual orientation?
Sexual orientation isn't strongly tied to experiences. That's like saying we have a choice about our orientation, which we don't. We are born with it.
Sexuality on the other hand is different, and that is tied to our experiences with different partners, boyfriends, girlfriends, lovers, ex-spouses etc. I suppose at its most fundamental level, sexuality is how we go about pursuing a partner or a romantic relationship, what it is we look for and want out of and within a relationship etc. That is tied to experience, and our identity.
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Post by Lorn on Feb 11, 2017 22:15:44 GMT
... and that impacts how any of these fictional characters are written in a fictional world where orientation isn't a big deal ... how exactly? If you're going to base your characters on bullshit ideology, then the characters are going to be bullshit.
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Post by Phantom on Feb 11, 2017 22:46:28 GMT
Well Cora is giving me bisexual vibes and yes she is very mannish like Cassandra from DAI. also I do want to be able players that want to play as Sara to romance Cora Fully.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 11, 2017 22:46:54 GMT
We know Asari commandos are basically the most elite unit (Benezia's famous quote in ME1 and Liara's other mother talk on how Asari specialize in infiltration etc.). Most elite? ha. Never saw it in the game. My Shepard drop kicked them all over place with ease Famous quote from Benezia? haha. "Have you ever seen an asari commando unit before? Few humans have. too bad my Shepard couldn't replay with "Have you ever seen a human spectre before? Few asari have. Oh yeah. Cora thread. I'm sure she will be seen in the 15 minute gameplay video
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 22:51:28 GMT
... and that impacts how any of these fictional characters are written in a fictional world where orientation isn't a big deal ... how exactly? If you're going to base your characters on bullshit ideology, then the characters are going to be bullshit. Is that really the best you can do? I'd like to understand how some of these characters would be so different if they were a different sexual orientation (backgrounds like Dorian's, spouses and exes notwithstanding).
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Post by xelander on Feb 12, 2017 0:09:50 GMT
I've made this argument in another thread but the playersexual route is actually the most efficient and resource-friendly way to give as many different people something they could get behind. "Playersexual" is a misnomer. If, over the course of multiple playthroughs, a character can enter a relationship with either gender, then they are bisexual. The other option is to assume that their sexuality is at the will of the PC and thus completely malleable, which (beyond some "experimenting", I suppose) is ridiculous. This is one instance of those "solutions" which, while seemingly good in the beginning, end up undermining the character/idea/world in the long run. Murkiness is unappealing.
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yourfunnyuncle
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 12, 2017 0:11:20 GMT
I don't know DA. I know people always bring up this Cassandra character but from what I've seen it's another cases of prominent jawline being unflatteringly framed by a shitty short cut. Haven't heard her voice or seen her mannerisms so there could be more, I'm just going by stills. But yeah this sort of problem can be traced to a few simple details that if developers were aware of and willing to avoid, so much of this could be fixed. I made my case in this post on this very thread. It was mostly ignored in favor of bitching about trolls so.. y'know, internet. I saw that post. It wasn't trollish but I didn't respond to it because I didn't see the point. Despite the way you framed it as some form of meaningful analysis, it was just another reiteration of your opinion of jawlines and the haircuts that suit them as though it was somehow something other than subjective. The "mistakes" that you point out are only mistakes if one buys into your underlying assumptions about beauty, which I don't. All the pictures you posted look fine to me. Sure, the real Olivia Wilde looks better than her CGI counterpart, but that's to be expected. You can frame your ideas of beauty however you like. You can make arguments and post photos, but you are just a human being with tastes like the rest of us. There's nothing objective there. It's just an aesthetic opinion made from a mixture of your genetic predispositions and the way your brain has been moulded by your life experience, the same as anyone else's. Unlike the trolls, you're clearly a thoughtful and intelligent chap, but from where I'm sitting, you're wasting your effort on trying to "prove" something that can't be proven. You don't like Cora's haircut. You don't think it suits her jawline. Fine, but it's just your opinion. Some agree with it, others don't. It's not worth wasting pages and pages of a thread over. People are getting put off from posting here by what they perceive as a toxic hate-fest over a bloody haircut. Your posts are tame compared to some, but by continually bringing up your distaste you're not helping, and that's a shame. Like many others, I'd rather like to talk about a potentially interesting character instead of continually obsessing over her looks, but it seems that won't be possible. What a pity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 0:28:53 GMT
I asked this about PeeBee in her thread, but I thought I'd ask this about Cora too.
How do you think Cora will get along with all the squadmates using the information we have so far?
Here are my thoughts:
Drack- if he's the typical krogan, Cora may discuss military tactics, the krogan people's role in the AI, and eyeroll at any pervertive comments he makes Vetra-think they'll get along, Vetra seems like the type who thinks before she acts
PeeBee-Same as what i said in the Peebee thread, PeeBee's free spirit may get on her nerves and Cora seemed the opposite of Cora when it was said in the pc gamer summary on reddit that: "Cora is 'more militaristic and orders and rules based', Peebee will appeal to those who think adventure is fun"
Liam-Liam will overall get along with Cora (maybe they are even the two squadmates with a "crush" on each other that was hinted in a dev tweet), but judging from the trailer Liam seems impulsive when it comes to jumping in to assist others. Cora might be fulfilling the role of holding Liam back from his impulsiveness or being someone that discusses past experiences in the MW with him.
Jaal-same for PeeBee and all the MW squadmates, may not trust her initially being Angarran and Cora being from the MW, not enough info on him yet
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yourfunnyuncle
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 12, 2017 0:39:23 GMT
Vetra: think they'll get along, Vetra seems like the type who thinks before she acts I tend to disagree, because from what they've shared, Vetra seems not to be someone used to military discipline. She's someone from the world of smugglers with "street smarts". I'd expect that initially at least there will be some friction and disagreement over the approach necessary in certain situations, although with time they may grow to trust each other.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 0:47:40 GMT
Vetra: think they'll get along, Vetra seems like the type who thinks before she acts I tend to disagree, because from what they've shared, Vetra seems not to be someone used to military discipline. She's someone from the world of smugglers with "street smarts". I'd expect that initially at least there will be some friction and disagreement over the approach necessary in certain situations, although with time they may grow to trust each other. Some interesting stuff came up from this thread that was made just now: "Based upon your dialogue choices, there can be tensions in the team." bsn.boards.net/thread/26/effect-andromeda-twitter-discussion-thread?page=689I think you're right that they'll have tactical disagreements as they come from different backgrounds and judging by this, what we say can affect the relationships between the squad. I'm thinking we'll get to decide between them on how to handle certain situations and our relationships with them could be affected along with the relationship between the two of them from what we say in certain dialogues.
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