Kaazmiin
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The Fan Art Fairy
Why be normal when you can be magical?
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Why be normal when you can be magical?
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Post by Kaazmiin on Feb 16, 2017 11:54:09 GMT
Ok so I asked Jo Berry whether Cora would choose between a friend/lover or 99 inocents. Which do you think she might choose? Extremely hard decision for anyone to make I'd wager. I guess it would depend on who and how important the friend/lover is and whether she could justify saving them with the assumption that without them more/just as much innocents would likely die?
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mikaelnovasun
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 11:59:32 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat?
It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares.
Edit: And let me clarify in regards to the player knowing. I mean you or me, not Ryder. Within the game's story no one knows Jack Harper is TIM.
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yourfunnyuncle
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 16, 2017 12:08:56 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. That's not a bad idea. I certainly don't see TIM as being the controlling type in the way Miranda's dad was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 12:21:29 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. I wouldn't mind this though if you chose the blue or red dialogue options throughout ME3, he shows that he had nothing but good intentions for humanity and even shoots himself when he realized he just made things worse. I can see him being a good father (valuing one human) since he values humanity as a whole.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 16, 2017 12:28:49 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. Personally i'd hate it if she was a dupe, a sucker, a sap, manipulated from a far by daddy dearest, without sufficient curiosity or intelligence to know who her father really was. I'd even prefer her to part of the ultra racist wing of Cerberus to that. At least then she would be captain of her own destiny not an unwitting pawn.
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mikaelnovasun
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 12:31:48 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. That's not a bad idea. I certainly don't see TIM as being the controlling type in the way Miranda's dad was. Yea I don't either. I wonder given Cerberus' history with "rogue cells" if rogue Cerberus agents(without TIM's consent) boarded the human Ark, and started the uprising. That could lead to Cora finding out what her father hid from her. It would make for a strong character moment and development of accepting both sides of her father, while still loving him as the man who raised her. I really wish we had a chance to read the Uprising Novel before playing the game. With both being released on the same day I will probably play the game before taking a break and reading the novel.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 16, 2017 13:04:44 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. What if she did learn about her father being who the player knows him to be? She likes the idea of him having humanity be #1. She didn't like his methods. Throughout the game she mentions that she like to have humanity at the top. She loves her species. Finally, with some help from my Ryder, she does something about it. She forms Cerberus in Andromeda or at least starts making plans to have Cerberus in Andromeda. At the end, she is seen in a black skirt/dress with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. My Ryder will shake her hand saying, "Well done the Illusive Daughter" excellent
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yourfunnyuncle
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Feb 16, 2017 13:07:07 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. What if she did learn about her father being who the player knows him to be? She likes the idea of him having humanity be #1. She didn't like his methods. Throughout the game she mentions that she like to have humanity at the top. She loves her species. Finally, with some help from my Ryder, she does something about it. She forms Cerberus in Andromeda or at least starts making plans to have Cerberus in Andromeda. At the end, she is seen in a black skirt/dress with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. My Ryder will shake her hand saying, "Well done the Illusive Daughter" excellent I can't imagine anything that would like less.
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mikaelnovasun
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Posts: 546 Likes: 1,638
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 13:07:32 GMT
Let me throw this out there. What if TIM treated her as a daughter, and not a legacy or asset to be used? What if he actually showed her love, and kept all the Cerberus stuff hidden from her? Could she only know her father as Jack Harper and and not TIM of Cerberus? Maybe he even encouraged her to join the Asari commandos to see her better herself, and not simply as a chance for humans to advance in their understanding of Biotics? TIM was one of the few people who actually believed Shepard, and was making moves to prepare. What if Jack Harper encouraged her to join the Initiative because he knew what was coming, but keep his reason for that encouragement secret? What if Jack Harper and Alec Ryder do indeed know each other from the War, and Jack(not TIM in a sense) asks Alec to offer his daughter an opportunity she would be unlikely to pass up to get her out of reach of the Reaper threat? It would put TIM in a whole new light and show a human side to his character. I know I first proposed the idea of her and Tim having some type falling out in my first posts in this thread, but I find the idea of using Cora as a lens to see another side of TIM appealing while she still stands as a strong character on her own. What could be really interesting is it is only the player who knows the connection between Jack Harper and TIM, and the rest of the characters only know Jack Harper as a loving supportive father from what Cora shares. Personally i'd hate it if she was a dupe, a sucker, a sap, manipulated from a far by daddy dearest, without sufficient curiosity or intelligence to know who her father really was. I'd even prefer her to part of the ultra racist wing of Cerberus to that. At least then she would be captain of her own destiny not an unwitting pawn. I highly doubt we will see another pro-cerberus squadmate any time soon. We already had two that we were able to befriend/romance and change their views. And the more I think about it, I don't think Cora will follow Miranda's story as closely as myself and others have proposed in previous posts. However I do think it is likely they shared a similar origin in the sense that the same technology was used to "conceive" and "birth" them. And where Miranda was solely based on her father's DNA, Cora is the combination of Eva Core and Jack Harper.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 16, 2017 13:09:58 GMT
What if she did learn about her father being who the player knows him to be? She likes the idea of him having humanity be #1. She didn't like his methods. Throughout the game she mentions that she like to have humanity at the top. She loves her species. Finally, with some help from my Ryder, she does something about it. She forms Cerberus in Andromeda or at least starts making plans to have Cerberus in Andromeda. At the end, she is seen in a black skirt/dress with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. My Ryder will shake her hand saying, "Well done the Illusive Daughter" excellent I can't imagine anything that would like less. Even in the case she's part of Cerberus, it's not going to be like this.
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mikaelnovasun
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 13:22:41 GMT
What if she did learn about her father being who the player knows him to be? She likes the idea of him having humanity be #1. She didn't like his methods. Throughout the game she mentions that she like to have humanity at the top. She loves her species. Finally, with some help from my Ryder, she does something about it. She forms Cerberus in Andromeda or at least starts making plans to have Cerberus in Andromeda. At the end, she is seen in a black skirt/dress with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. My Ryder will shake her hand saying, "Well done the Illusive Daughter" excellent I can't imagine anything that would like less. Yea I don't see this happening at all given her 4 years with an Asari special forces unit. She is likely to have a favorable view of inter-species relations. I work with the police and once you face a fire fight with your partner you become brothers/sisters. You place the ultimate trust in the the guy or gal at your back, and it makes for strong bond. It is probably even more so for the military and special forces with the threats and mission objectives they deal with. After serving 4 years with the same 5 "sisters" I am betting Cora considers them family in the strongest sense of the word. I also think Bioware is using Andromeda to avoid using story elements that from the first 3 games, the two largest being Cerberus and the Reapers. And let me clarify in regards to the player knowing. I mean you or me, not Ryder. Within the game's story no one knows Jack Harper is TIM.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 14:16:47 GMT
I was actually thinking if she is his daughter, he sent her so she'd survive and put Alec in charge of her safety.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 14:27:27 GMT
I was actually thinking if she is his daughter, he sent her so she'd survive and put Alec in charge of her safety. I doubt that. I can get with the idea of working with Alec to give her a chance to get away from the Reaper threat. But in charge of her safety? The woman served 4 years with a Special Forces unit. Chances are she isn't someone you want to mess with. If Alec recruited Cora as a favor to Jack, I am betting she impressed Alec through her own merits to be assigned as his second in command.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 14:30:47 GMT
I was actually thinking if she is his daughter, he sent her so she'd survive and put Alec in charge of her safety. I doubt that. I can get with the idea of working with Alec to give her a chance to get away from the Reaper threat. But in charge of her safety? The woman served 4 years with a Special Forces unit. Chances are she isn't someone you want to mess with. If Alec recruited Cora as a favor to Jack, I am betting she impressed Alec through her own merits to be assigned as his second in command. Yeah but everything TIM does is not out of the good of his heart. If he suspected things would fail with Shepard, at least she could continue his plans for humanity. Of course, maybe she doesn't know this and finds out later on. Would be a fun little twist without any betrayal. And of course Alec would be impressed with her. He might have only agreed because she's a capable woman and not some rich girl needing protection.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 14:53:10 GMT
I doubt that. I can get with the idea of working with Alec to give her a chance to get away from the Reaper threat. But in charge of her safety? The woman served 4 years with a Special Forces unit. Chances are she isn't someone you want to mess with. If Alec recruited Cora as a favor to Jack, I am betting she impressed Alec through her own merits to be assigned as his second in command. Yeah but everything TIM does is not out of the good of his heart. If he suspected things would fail with Shepard, at least she could continue his plans for humanity. Of course, maybe she doesn't know this and finds out later on. Would be a fun little twist without any betrayal. And of course Alec would be impressed with her. He might have only agreed because she's a capable woman and not some rich girl needing protection. I think you are wrong in regards to TIM's motivation, but that is best debated elsewhere. I also don't think he would use Cora as a means to continue his legacy. TIM is a highly intelligent guy, and he has seen a lot of combat during the First Contact War. His second in command was a woman(Eva Core) who he had strong feelings for so he knows about the bonds forged in combat. He has to know Cora is likely to see working with Asari in a very favorable light after 4 years of fighting beside them. Also as other people have said we already had a woman with ties to Cerberus and daddy issues, as much as I enjoy Miranda I hope Bioware wouldn't go that route again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 14:57:28 GMT
Yeah but everything TIM does is not out of the good of his heart. If he suspected things would fail with Shepard, at least she could continue his plans for humanity. Of course, maybe she doesn't know this and finds out later on. Would be a fun little twist without any betrayal. And of course Alec would be impressed with her. He might have only agreed because she's a capable woman and not some rich girl needing protection. I think you are wrong in regards to TIM's motivation, but that is best debated elsewhere. I also don't think he would use Cora as a means to continue his legacy. TIM is a highly intelligent guy, and he has seen a lot of combat during the First Contact War. His second in command was a woman(Eva Core) who he had strong feelings for so he knows about the bonds forged in combat. He has to know Cora is likely to see working with Asari in a very favorable light after 4 years of fighting beside them. Also as other people has said we already had a woman with ties to Cerberus and daddy issues, I hope Bioware wouldn't go that route again. Haha like I said, fun twists, surprises and it's all just speculation (I don't find debating worth anything when it's all just ideas), plus him wanting humanity to rule another Galaxy that he can't get to himself would be interesting I think. Nothing I state is fact or what I predict, just sharing my own plot ideas!
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 16, 2017 15:11:49 GMT
As much as I hate the idea of a TIM connection I could get behind Cora being the one thing he's not well, TIM-ish about. Humanity first, victory through control, all well and good. He's sacrificed too much, yeah fine. But if she's the one thing he won't sacrifice, then I'm ok with it. It doesn't say she's helpless. It only says what's true about all fathers everywhere (at least those not literally insane): to them, they'll always be their little girl (or boy).
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Post by themikefest on Feb 16, 2017 15:14:29 GMT
Haha like I said, fun twists, surprises and it's all just speculation (I don't find debating worth anything when it's all just ideas), plus him wanting humanity to rule another Galaxy that he can't get to himself would be interesting I think. Nothing I state is fact or what I predict, just sharing my own plot ideas! Yep. My posts are speculation as well. It would be nice to see Cora in a black dress/skirt with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I wouldn't be surprise if someone will draw an image like that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 15:18:04 GMT
As much as I hate the idea of a TIM connection I could get behind Cora being the one thing he's not well, TIM-ish about. Humanity first, victory through control, all well and good. He's sacrificed too much, yeah fine. But if she's the one thing he won't sacrifice, then I'm ok with it. It doesn't say she's helpless. It only says what's true about all fathers everywhere (at least those not literally insane): to them, they'll always be their little girl (or boy). That's sort of what I was trying to say, but because TIM always has hidden motives I try not to forget he could be hoping to use her, as well as want to protect her. Seeing as both he and Alec were in the same war, they could have easily known each other. Her abilities of course would be a huge asset to Alec, so he would be more than happy to bring her along. And seeing the humanity that still remained in TIM for wanting his daughter safe would show he really is still human, despite the choices he made with the Reaper tech
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mikaelnovasun
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 15:25:53 GMT
I wanted to avoid this but here we go. TIM didn't want to rule anything. He wanted humanity to be the ones in charge of their own destiny. He wanted humanity leading the way not necessarily ruling over the galaxy. In ME3 his motivation and decisions get twisted because he was becoming indoctrinated once the reapers showed up in the Milk Way. He already had some Reaper based implants; his eyes, and his ability to understand alien languages without an omni-tool(see the comic series Mass Effect: Evolution). Once the reapers showed up those implants were his undoing. Anyway, here is a wild one and I find it EXTREMELY unlikey. Cora is actually Eva's clone and Mrs. Jack Harper .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 15:32:09 GMT
I wanted to avoid this but here we go. TIM didn't want to rule anything. He wanted humanity to be the ones in charge of their own destiny. He wanted humanity leading the way not necessarily ruling over the galaxy. In ME3 his motivation and decisions get twisted because he was becoming indoctrinated once the reapers showed up in the Milk Way. He already had some Reaper based implants; his eyes, and his ability to understand alien languages without an omni-tool(see the comic series Mass Effect: Evolution). Once the reapers showed up those implants were his undoing. Anyway, here is a wild one and I find it EXTEMELY unlikey. Cora is actually Eva's clone and Mrs. Jack Harper . That would be a fun twist, but Ellen Ryder will probably fill those shoes via SAM or something.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 15:57:05 GMT
SomebodyOfNobody @of_somebody @joanna_Berry Ok so tough question here, would Cora pick a friend/lover that meant a great deal to her or 99 innocents if she had to choose?
Jo Berry @joanna_Berry @of_somebody I think once you get to know Cora, you'll have the answer.
So how does everyone think Cora will answer this question, through dialogue or an actual scenario where she has to choose?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 17:26:03 GMT
Drpping Drack's profile pic since it has Cora in it.
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mikaelnovasun
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 16, 2017 17:29:27 GMT
Drpping Drack's profile pic since it has Cora in it. Yikes! I hope they fixed the clipping issues in the final release.
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Post by tempest on Feb 16, 2017 17:39:22 GMT
Ok so I asked Jo Berry whether Cora would choose between a friend/lover or 99 inocents. Which do you think she might choose? Based on her answer, I don't really know but Cora to me seems like a friend/lover chooser. I hope. This is based on the very little we have heard but... I'd just like that... I relate. I've had this convo with a friend just recently, and it's relatable and I'd like to think most people would choose the masses but... I'd respect her passion, even if it's slightly a shitty choice long term, I want her to be like that I guess? LOVE ME that much, Cora. *sob*
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