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Post by Crim on Feb 21, 2017 15:02:56 GMT
I wonder if 6 will be our squad or perhaps we'll be getting a Khet squadmate. Seen a few people speculate this possibru being a thing. I'd certainly prefer having a seventh. Until proven hopeless, I'm continuing to entertain my fantasy of there being a rival/lesser antagonist who turns optional squadmate (provided we invest in convincing them of our intentions throughout our encounters with them) after we defeat them. If such a character happened to be voiced by Nicholas Boulton and have a complicated romance route, that would basically be my ideal scenario. He's voicing Reyes, right? Some are guessing he'll be an m/m option. *Speculations*
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 21, 2017 16:33:00 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 16:37:42 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple. They were my second. Liara just had too much content and development throughout the trilogy that Miranda could not unfortunately measure up to. They should've made her a squadmate in ME3 imo or at least stay on the normandy as source of information/advisor throughout the game. She could keep going through her contacts to deal with her matters while remaining safe with Shepard and crew on the Normandy.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 21, 2017 16:58:51 GMT
They were my second. Liara just had too much content and development throughout the trilogy that Miranda could not unfortunately measure up to. They should've made her a squadmate in ME3 imo or at least stay on the normandy as source of information/advisor throughout the game. She could keep going through her contacts to deal with her matters while remaining safe with Shepard and crew on the Normandy. That was my main problem with Liara. She feels forced and heavy handed if you are not romancing her. In my head canon, Shepard ducked her awkward advances in ME1 and threw Kaiden at her to save himself .
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 21, 2017 17:12:04 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple. Nice image. Big shoes to fill, though. Seeing this does not make me optimistic about their chances. Quite the opposite, it reminds me of what we lost. And Miranda is my canon as well.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 17:15:59 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple. Nice image. Big shoes to fill, though. Seeing this does not make me optimistic about their chances. Quite the opposite, it reminds me of what we lost. And Miranda is my canon as well. Is it because of their appearances? Miranda was my canon too. In the end a switch had to happen. I'm a lot interested in Cora, so I'm hopeful.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 21, 2017 17:23:51 GMT
Is it because of their appearances? Miranda was my canon too. In the end a switch had to happen. I'm a lot interested in Cora, so I'm hopeful. Yes, but not in the way you're probably thinking (I mean yes, that particular criticism will never go away, but that's not the main point here). The new characters, despite likely being higher rez, don't seem as vibrant. Though I'll admit, this could be simple bias talking, we have years of history on Miranda/Shep while Ryder and Cora we know nothing about yet. Still, what I said is argumentatively true. Space Jesus and the woman who brought him back would be hard to measure up to.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 17:56:57 GMT
Is it because of their appearances? Miranda was my canon too. In the end a switch had to happen. I'm a lot interested in Cora, so I'm hopeful. Yes, but not in the way you're probably thinking (I mean yes, that particular criticism will never go away, but that's not the main point here). The new characters, despite likely being higher rez, don't seem as vibrant. Though I'll admit, this could be simple bias talking, we have years of history on Miranda/Shep while Ryder and Cora we know nothing about yet. Still, what I said is argumentatively true. Space Jesus and the woman who brought him back would be hard to measure up to. No, I meant in general, otherwise I'd have mentioned only Cora I think history is part of that feeling. The trilogy in general had this advantage, even on DA, of building stories and characters for several games.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 18:03:44 GMT
more cora and drack:
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 18:05:10 GMT
They certainly love showing this combo in shots
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 18:09:19 GMT
They certainly love showing this combo in shots Must be Ian rigging the screen releases. He did say he liked the combo did he not?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 18:56:59 GMT
Is he really the antagonist though? From what BioWare has said, the Khet view humanity as the hostile invaders. From their perspective, we are the threat. It wouldn't be the first time BioWare has mislead us about who the real antagonist is. Do you remember Corypheus? He wasn't the actual real threat, assuming you played Trespasser. This also wouldn't be the first Mass Effect game to have multiple antagonists. ME1 had Saren and Sovereign. ME2 had the Collectors and Harbinger. ME3 had TIM, the Catalyst, and the Reapers. There has always been an ensemble of villains with their own motivations and their own goals. He's an antagonist regardless of his moral position. An antagonist is defined by their opposition to the protagonist, which in this case, is our character by the simple virtue of their being the one with the primary focus. It is entirely possible to have a villain protagonist, and a hero antagonist. To put it simply, even if you think the archon is a heroic figure, it doesn't do anything to affect his position as an antagonist, because villain and antagonist are not synonyms. Again, I use Saren as a perfect example. Was he really a antagonist in ME1? That's a matter of debate. His goals were certainly at odds with a number of things that Shepard did. That being said, from his perspective, he was actually trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers. I'm just pointing out that these characters aren't nearly as black and white as some are making them out to be. It's the same situation with Loghain, Meredith, The Illusive Man, etc. Just because the Archon has been suggested as the "bad guy" in Andromeda really doesn't say a lot about the plot or the story. Rarely is anything every that cut and dry in a BioWare game. I wouldn't be shocked at all if at some point Ryder and the Archon actually join forces, similar to Master Chief and the Arbiter in the original Halo trilogy. The Arbiter was sort of a antagonist... until he wasn't.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 21, 2017 19:43:53 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple. Can you do one with femshep and femRyder?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 19:46:55 GMT
Is it because of their appearances? Miranda was my canon too. In the end a switch had to happen. I'm a lot interested in Cora, so I'm hopeful. Yes, but not in the way you're probably thinking (I mean yes, that particular criticism will never go away, but that's not the main point here). The new characters, despite likely being higher rez, don't seem as vibrant. Though I'll admit, this could be simple bias talking, we have years of history on Miranda/Shep while Ryder and Cora we know nothing about yet. Still, what I said is argumentatively true. Space Jesus and the woman who brought him back would be hard to measure up to. Please do tell what criticism is that?
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Post by themikefest on Feb 21, 2017 19:48:00 GMT
They were my second. Liara just had too much content and development throughout the trilogy that Miranda could not unfortunately measure up to. They should've made her a squadmate in ME3 imo or at least stay on the normandy as source of information/advisor throughout the game. She could keep going through her contacts to deal with her matters while remaining safe with Shepard and crew on the Normandy. It's too bad Miranda couldn't be on the Normandy and back in her office. Maybe when Bioware remakes the trilogy that can happen. Hint, hint Bioware.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2017 19:51:30 GMT
He's an antagonist regardless of his moral position. An antagonist is defined by their opposition to the protagonist, which in this case, is our character by the simple virtue of their being the one with the primary focus. It is entirely possible to have a villain protagonist, and a hero antagonist. To put it simply, even if you think the archon is a heroic figure, it doesn't do anything to affect his position as an antagonist, because villain and antagonist are not synonyms. Again, I use Saren as a perfect example. Was he really a antagonist in ME1? That's a matter of debate. His goals were certainly at odds with a number of things that Shepard did. That being said, from his perspective, he was actually trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers. I'm just pointing out that these characters aren't nearly as black and white as some are making them out to be. It's the same situation with Loghain, Meredith, The Illusive Man, etc. Just because the Archon has been suggested as the "bad guy" in Andromeda really doesn't say a lot about the plot or the story. Rarely is anything every that cut and dry in a BioWare game. I wouldn't be shocked at all if at some point Ryder and the Archon actually join forces, similar to Master Chief and the Arbiter in the original Halo trilogy. The Arbiter was sort of a antagonist... until he wasn't. Yes, Saren really was an antagonist in ME1, up until the moment you kill him or convince him to commit suicide. There is no debate. The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing or at least will lead to a good end which is why they are doing it. Very rarely is the antagonist doing evil things just because they want to do evil things. You seem to be thinking that antagonist means villain, which isn't the case. Similar to how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all villains are antagonists but not all antagonists are villains. All those people you mentioned were antagonists even if they may or may not be villains since they opposed the protagonist.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Feb 21, 2017 19:53:41 GMT
I was goofing in Photoshop after making a new avatar, and came up with this. Shepard and Miranda are my canon couple. Can you do one with femshep and femRyder? Let me see if I can find a good render of Femshep. Maybe the art used when we were voting on her default look for ME3. Her in game face...lets just say I always make a custom femshep to better match the box art.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 21, 2017 20:02:42 GMT
Please do tell what criticism is that? The One Criticism... to rule them ALL
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 20:04:30 GMT
Again, I use Saren as a perfect example. Was he really a antagonist in ME1? That's a matter of debate. His goals were certainly at odds with a number of things that Shepard did. That being said, from his perspective, he was actually trying to save the galaxy from the Reapers. I'm just pointing out that these characters aren't nearly as black and white as some are making them out to be. It's the same situation with Loghain, Meredith, The Illusive Man, etc. Just because the Archon has been suggested as the "bad guy" in Andromeda really doesn't say a lot about the plot or the story. Rarely is anything every that cut and dry in a BioWare game. I wouldn't be shocked at all if at some point Ryder and the Archon actually join forces, similar to Master Chief and the Arbiter in the original Halo trilogy. The Arbiter was sort of a antagonist... until he wasn't. Yes, Saren really was an antagonist in ME1, up until the moment you kill him or convince him to blow his brains out. There is no debate. The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing or at least will lead to a good end which is why they are doing it. Very rarely is the antagonist doing evil things just because they want to do evil things. You seem to be thinking that antagonist means villain, which isn't the case. Similar to how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all villains are antagonists but not all antagonists are villains. All those people you mentioned were antagonists even if they may or may not be villains since they opposed the protagonist. "The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing"? According to who? It depends on the motivations of the character and what they are trying to achieve. That's something you cannot make a generalization about as it depends on a case by case basis. We are really getting away from my original point here. Yes, I'm aware that the Archon is the alleged antagonist and will be fighting against the Pathfinder in MEA. My question was whether or not he would continue to fill that role throughout the duration of the game. Given how BioWare loves to always hide who the true antagonist is in their games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Archon become an ally. Folks are so quick to take everything BioWare states at face value as absolute truth and law. This studio has a history of being deceptive and lying with regards to the story as to avoid spoilers. Nobody here knows absolutely everything about these characters, which is why it's a losing battle to just assume that Alec is not a antagonist and Archon is the antagonist because BioWare said so on Twitter. You are free to believe what you want, however. The game will determine just how truthful BioWare is actually being, as they usually only tell half-truths for reasons already mentioned above. I will not be surprised if quite a few folks here end up being shocked with how events unfold in the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2017 20:14:42 GMT
Yes, Saren really was an antagonist in ME1, up until the moment you kill him or convince him to blow his brains out. There is no debate. The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing or at least will lead to a good end which is why they are doing it. Very rarely is the antagonist doing evil things just because they want to do evil things. You seem to be thinking that antagonist means villain, which isn't the case. Similar to how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all villains are antagonists but not all antagonists are villains. All those people you mentioned were antagonists even if they may or may not be villains since they opposed the protagonist. "The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing"? According to who? It depends on the motivations of the character and what they are trying to achieve. That's something you cannot make a generalization about as it depends on a case by case basis. We are really getting away from my original point here. Yes, I'm aware that the Archon is the alleged antagonist and will be fighting against the Pathfinder in MEA. My question was whether or not he would continue to fill that role throughout the duration of the game. Given how BioWare loves to always hide who the true antagonist is in their games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Archon become an ally. Folks are so quick to take everything BioWare states at face value as absolute truth and law. This studio has a history of being deceptive and lying with regards to the story as to avoid spoilers. Nobody here knows absolutely everything about these characters, which is why it's a losing battle to just assume that Alec is not a antagonist and Archon is the antagonist because BioWare said so on Twitter. You are free to believe what you want, however. The game will determine just how truthful BioWare is actually being, as they usually only tell half-truths for reasons already mentioned above. I will not be surprised if quite a few folks here end up being shocked with how events unfold in the game. According to the history of storytelling. The majority of antagonists either see their actions as good or as a necessary evil for a good end. And yes, that is exactly the kind of things you can make generalizations about. For example lots of antagonists have the same mindset of "This is the only way to make a better world". As long as he opposes the protagonist, he will always be the antagonist since that is the literal definition of the word. If he stops opposing the protagonist and either stands down or joins us, then he is no longer an antagonist. I'm not denying that they could go that route since they have done it before. Bioware has never straight up lied about a character not being an antagonist but then is an antagonist before. I dare you to provide examples where they lied about things like that. And I mean lies of commission, not omission since this thing with Alec is the former. After that, we should end this conversation here since this is Cora's thread, not Alec's.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 20:18:46 GMT
Yes, Saren really was an antagonist in ME1, up until the moment you kill him or convince him to blow his brains out. There is no debate. The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing or at least will lead to a good end which is why they are doing it. Very rarely is the antagonist doing evil things just because they want to do evil things. You seem to be thinking that antagonist means villain, which isn't the case. Similar to how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all villains are antagonists but not all antagonists are villains. All those people you mentioned were antagonists even if they may or may not be villains since they opposed the protagonist. "The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing"? According to who? It depends on the motivations of the character and what they are trying to achieve. That's something you cannot make a generalization about as it depends on a case by case basis. We are really getting away from my original point here. Yes, I'm aware that the Archon is the alleged antagonist and will be fighting against the Pathfinder in MEA. My question was whether or not he would continue to fill that role throughout the duration of the game. Given how BioWare loves to always hide who the true antagonist is in their games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Archon become an ally. Folks are so quick to take everything BioWare states at face value as absolute truth and law. This studio has a history of being deceptive and lying with regards to the story as to avoid spoilers. Nobody here knows absolutely everything about these characters, which is why it's a losing battle to just assume that Alec is not a antagonist and Archon is the antagonist because BioWare said so on Twitter. You are free to believe what you want, however. The game will determine just how truthful BioWare is actually being, as they usually only tell half-truths for reasons already mentioned above. I will not be surprised if quite a few folks here end up being shocked with how events unfold in the game. Well, I'm not making expectations based on what they said, in terms of story. Just posting what they said. on that note, they actually hinted Archon isn't really an antagonist in the common sense, so he and Alec somehow fall in the same spectrum. I think making any assumption on Alec's story is meaningless since the guy, based on the fact we take his place, has several scenarios open.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 20:38:33 GMT
"The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing"? According to who? It depends on the motivations of the character and what they are trying to achieve. That's something you cannot make a generalization about as it depends on a case by case basis. We are really getting away from my original point here. Yes, I'm aware that the Archon is the alleged antagonist and will be fighting against the Pathfinder in MEA. My question was whether or not he would continue to fill that role throughout the duration of the game. Given how BioWare loves to always hide who the true antagonist is in their games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Archon become an ally. Folks are so quick to take everything BioWare states at face value as absolute truth and law. This studio has a history of being deceptive and lying with regards to the story as to avoid spoilers. Nobody here knows absolutely everything about these characters, which is why it's a losing battle to just assume that Alec is not a antagonist and Archon is the antagonist because BioWare said so on Twitter. You are free to believe what you want, however. The game will determine just how truthful BioWare is actually being, as they usually only tell half-truths for reasons already mentioned above. I will not be surprised if quite a few folks here end up being shocked with how events unfold in the game. According to the history of storytelling. The majority of antagonists either see their actions as good or as a necessary evil for a good end. And yes, that is exactly the kind of things you can make generalizations about. For example lots of antagonists have the same mindset of "This is the only way to make a better world". As long as he opposes the protagonist, he will always be the antagonist since that is the literal definition of the word. If he stops opposing the protagonist and either stands down or joins us, then he is no longer an antagonist. I'm not denying that they could go that route since they have done it before. Bioware has never straight up lied about a character not being an antagonist but then is an antagonist before. I dare you to provide examples where they lied about things like that. And I mean lies of commission, not omission since this thing with Alec is the former. After that, we should end this conversation here since this is Cora's thread, not Alec's. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/antagonistA antagonist is simply someone who opposes the protagonist. There is nothing about what the motivations or the goal of the antagonist are, just that the antagonist is at odds with the protagonist. That could mean that the antagonist believes they are doing the "right" thing, but it could also mean the antagonist believes they are doing the "wrong" thing. Intent and more specifically a moral compass has nothing to do with being a antagonist. Cora is actually related to this, as the discussion was actually focused around her family and possible link to Cerberus. Alec was merely a consequence of that discussion because of his dubious disappearance. "The antagonists almost always see what they are doing as a good thing"? According to who? It depends on the motivations of the character and what they are trying to achieve. That's something you cannot make a generalization about as it depends on a case by case basis. We are really getting away from my original point here. Yes, I'm aware that the Archon is the alleged antagonist and will be fighting against the Pathfinder in MEA. My question was whether or not he would continue to fill that role throughout the duration of the game. Given how BioWare loves to always hide who the true antagonist is in their games, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Archon become an ally. Folks are so quick to take everything BioWare states at face value as absolute truth and law. This studio has a history of being deceptive and lying with regards to the story as to avoid spoilers. Nobody here knows absolutely everything about these characters, which is why it's a losing battle to just assume that Alec is not a antagonist and Archon is the antagonist because BioWare said so on Twitter. You are free to believe what you want, however. The game will determine just how truthful BioWare is actually being, as they usually only tell half-truths for reasons already mentioned above. I will not be surprised if quite a few folks here end up being shocked with how events unfold in the game. Well, I'm not making expectations based on what they said, in terms of story. Just posting what they said. on that note, they actually hinted Archon isn't really an antagonist in the common sense, so he and Alec somehow fall in the same spectrum. I think making any assumption on Alec's story is meaningless since the guy, based on the fact we take his place, has several scenarios open. I agree. Alec's story is a mystery and it's impossible to know his motivations at this point. I just find it suspect based on some of his questionable projects (S.A.M.), problems arising on the Hyperion before they get to Andromeda, and his disappearance early on. At this point, Alec and the Archon are both enigmas that will need further exploration in the game to understand their motivations. The same is the case for Cora, who also seems to have a very unique upbringing.
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Sifr
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Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Feb 21, 2017 20:49:06 GMT
An Antagonist is any character who opposes the Protagonist. That does not necessarily make them evil, a villain or negate their motivations and the things they are trying to achieve.
Saren was an antagonist because he was in conflict with Shepard over how the handle the Reaper menace.
Saren's motivations may have been to try to prevent extinction through submission to the Reapers, but his actions were what made him a villain. Saren was shown not to care about collateral damage and innocent lives lost while completing his mission, was prepared to murder (or have murdered) anyone who got in his way, while discarding his followers who no longer were useful.
In contrast, Solas was the hidden antagonist throughout Inquisition and primary antagonist of Trespasser.
Solas' motivations are trying to restore the Elven People and correct his mistake in creating the Veil millennia ago, but his actions paint him as more of an anti-villain. Solas has also done things that have resulted in collateral damage, but he is shown to be genuinely regretful about the all blood on his hands, both from the past conflict with the Evanuris, executing Felassan for his betrayal and the blood he has yet to spill in his quest to tear down the Veil.
Saren was an example of a villainous antagonist, while Solas was more of a heroic antagonist.
Despite this, even if Solas can be considered more "heroic" and possessing more virtues and redeeming qualities than Saren, that does not mean that Solas' actions (however well-intentioned) are necessarily good. Nor does Saren's villainy make wanting to try to prevent galactic extinction a bad thing, only the means he went about trying to achieve it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:54:22 GMT
She looks soft-hearted in this pic. Best phone image imo
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 21, 2017 21:13:28 GMT
She looks soft-hearted in this pic. Best phone image imo Agreed on the soft hearted part. I'd say she's the second for me, although I like all four they shown so far. I like krogans too much
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