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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 23:57:48 GMT
If Cora isn't Bi my decision on that front will be much much easier. Unless Peebee doesn't go for women either... in which case, I'm right back at square one with who Sara will romance. Jaal? Liam? Gargantuan metal love serpent? PeeBee is more than likely bi though they keep brining up the fact that she's not a typical asari and even has the real eyebrows thing so her having a preference to male humans vs female humans or vice versa is possible at this point, but highly unlikely. still...confirmation would be nice though
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
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Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 0:14:11 GMT
This will not be resolved in discussion and is becoming off-topic at this point. You have your interpretation and I have mine. Solas is a villain in DAI. However, he's not a antagonist in the main story. He just so happens to be manipulating Corypheus and the Inquisitor in order to reach his true goal of remaking Thedas. There is no such thing as a "hidden antagonist." He either is a antagonist to the Inquisitor or he is not, and he is not a antagonist in the main story. He certainly has ulterior motives, but intent has nothing to do with being a antagonist or not. He actually did help the Inquisitor and saved his/her, which means he cannot be a antagonist, "hidden" or otherwise. You are listing accusations of Saren I already indicated. Again, I point you to Arrival where Shepard killed hundreds of thousands of Batarians in an attempt to save billions. Saren's methods may seem less ethical to you, but his goals were the same. Whether Saren knew if his methods would work or not is irrelevant. Shepard knew blowing up the relay wouldn't stop the Reapers but merely delay them. Does that justify his actions? Not to me. Shepard has just as much blood on his/her hands. Solas has a very apparent distrust and dislike for Templars, Seekers, the Chantry, and anyone who deems mages "dangerous." Solas is also more prone to help spirits and rarely views any of them as dangerous or as demons. While the Inquisitor may change Solas' narrow-minded opinion and view of these lesser non-elf races, Solas still views elves as the "chosen people" and ultimately will sacrifice everybody to restore his people to their glory. I find very little about Solas to be heroic. If anything, he's selfish and stuck in a past that no longer exists. Solas makes it rather apparent that Thedas as it currently is can no longer exist if he is to restore his old world. You can interpret that how you like, but obviously it would cause death and destruction to much of the population of Thedas. I'm not sure how you can justify any of those actions as heroic. Really hope she's not much like Ashley, was never a particular fan of her character. Was so relieved when Miranda came along as an option. Personally, I don't think Cora is anything like Ash. I heard what Shinobi said, but I believe the similarities between the two are superficial and minuscule at best. Cora comes across a lot more like Miranda, except not as rough around the edges. I think it's quite likely Cora will be much more likeable than both Miranda and Ash. Only time will tell, but from everything we've seen on Cora I don't think Shinobi could be further off base, unless he's already played the entire story and Cora is constantly quoting from Whitman, gossiping about how amazing her family is, and talking about how she doesn't trust anyone who isn't human.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
CrimsonN7
17,287
13,982
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Post by Crim on Feb 22, 2017 0:18:20 GMT
If Cora isn't Bi my decision on that front will be much much easier. Unless Peebee doesn't go for women either... in which case, I'm right back at square one with who Sara will romance. Jaal? Liam? Gargantuan metal love serpent? Sifr lol, sifr pls.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:20:05 GMT
This will not be resolved in discussion and is becoming off-topic at this point. You have your interpretation and I have mine. Solas is a villain in DAI. However, he's not a antagonist in the main story. He just so happens to be manipulating Corypheus and the Inquisitor in order to reach his true goal of remaking Thedas. There is no such thing as a "hidden antagonist." He either is a antagonist to the Inquisitor or he is not, and he is not a antagonist in the main story. He certainly has ulterior motives, but intent has nothing to do with being a antagonist or not. He actually did help the Inquisitor and saved his/her, which means he cannot be a antagonist, "hidden" or otherwise. You are listing accusations of Saren I already indicated. Again, I point you to Arrival where Shepard killed hundreds of thousands of Batarians in an attempt to save billions. Saren's methods may seem less ethical to you, but his goals were the same. Whether Saren knew if his methods would work or not is irrelevant. Shepard knew blowing up the relay wouldn't stop the Reapers but merely delay them. Does that justify his actions? Not to me. Shepard has just as much blood on his/her hands. Solas has a very apparent distrust and dislike for Templars, Seekers, the Chantry, and anyone who deems mages "dangerous." Solas is also more prone to help spirits and rarely views any of them as dangerous or as demons. While the Inquisitor may change Solas' narrow-minded opinion and view of these lesser non-elf races, Solas still views elves as the "chosen people" and ultimately will sacrifice everybody to restore his people to their glory. I find very little about Solas to be heroic. If anything, he's selfish and stuck in a past that no longer exists. Solas makes it rather apparent that Thedas as it currently is can no longer exist if he is to restore his old world. You can interpret that how you like, but obviously it would cause death and destruction to much of the population of Thedas. I'm not sure how you can justify any of those actions as heroic. Really hope she's not much like Ashley, was never a particular fan of her character. Was so relieved when Miranda came along as an option. Personally, I don't think Cora is anything like Ash. I heard what Shinobi said, but I believe the similarities between the two are superficial and minuscule at best. Cora comes across a lot more like Miranda, except not as rough around the edges. I think it's quite likely Cora will be much more likeable than both Miranda and Ash. Only time will tell, but from everything we've seen on Cora I don't think Shinobi could be further off base, unless he's already played the entire story and Cora is constantly quoting from Whitman, gossiping about how amazing her family is, and talking about how she doesn't trust anyone who isn't human. Agreed. Ash wouldn't have ever initially trained with Asari commandos unless a human was leading them/bc it was for the alliance. Ash is also not very supportive of Shepard. She had his back while he was working with the alliance, but when Shepard left it, she abandoned all faith in him/her just because he/she was allying with cerberus despite Shepard constantly saying he/she's just using them to stop the collectors. A supportive character is along the lines of Miranda more than Ash. Miranda may be cold, but when she gets close to someone she takes their side no matter what unless someone even closer to her was on the opposite side.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 0:20:42 GMT
I've been torn between Cora and Peebee for my first romance in MEA, still cannot decide which? If Cora isn't Bi my decision on that front will be much much easier. Ever since the "player-sexual" controversy in DAII, BioWare has been really careful with how they depict sexual orientations in games. I noticed with DAI, in particular, that they wanted to make it clear certain characters just weren't interested in all. Sera flat out rejects the male Inquisitor, even though BioWare provides dialogue that allows you to flirt with her. I have a feeling we are going to see this likely return in MEA, with most of the characters preferring one gender over the other. Obviously, Cora is at least heterosexual due to the apparent romance in the trailer with BroRyder. It's possible she may also be interested in women, but BioWare might want to avoid the same situation DAII had where the player was choosing the sexual orientation for many of the companions.
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Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 0:25:34 GMT
Personally, I don't think Cora is anything like Ash. I heard what Shinobi said, but I believe the similarities between the two are superficial and minuscule at best. Cora comes across a lot more like Miranda, except not as rough around the edges. I think it's quite likely Cora will be much more likeable than both Miranda and Ash. Only time will tell, but from everything we've seen on Cora I don't think Shinobi could be further off base, unless he's already played the entire story and Cora is constantly quoting from Whitman, gossiping about how amazing her family is, and talking about how she doesn't trust anyone who isn't human. Agreed. Ash wouldn't have ever initially trained with Asari commandos unless a human was leading them/bc it was for the alliance. Ash is also not very supportive of Shepard. She had his back while he was working with the alliance, but when Shepard left it, she abandoned all faith in him/her just because he/she was allying with cerberus despite Shepard constantly saying he/she's just using them to stop the collectors. A supportive character is along the lines of Miranda more than Ash. Miranda may be cold, but when she gets close to someone she gets really attached... The idea of even seeing Ash train with anybody that's not human, especially in ME1, is rather preposterous. You are absolutely right that Ash is petty. The moment she thinks Shepard has betrayed the Alliance for Cerberus is the moment she won't forgive him for all of ME2 and half of ME3. Honestly, she pointed a gun at Shepard on the Citadel and almost believed Udina over him/her. Miranda is absolutely loyal. Just look at her relationship with TIM. She only betrays him because of the horrible things he was planning to do. Otherwise, she protects those who she cares about. I see Cora as being a less extreme version of Miranda so far.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:30:15 GMT
If Cora isn't Bi my decision on that front will be much much easier. Ever since the "player-sexual" controversy in DAII, BioWare has been really careful with how they depict sexual orientations in games. I noticed with DAI, in particular, that they wanted to make it clear certain characters just weren't interested in all. Sera flat out rejects the male Inquisitor, even though BioWare provides dialogue that allows you to flirt with her. I have a feeling we are going to see this likely return in MEA, with most of the characters preferring one gender over the other. Obviously, Cora is at least heterosexual due to the apparent romance in the trailer with BroRyder. It's possible she may also be interested in women, but BioWare might want to avoid the same situation DAII had where the player was choosing the sexual orientation for many of the companions. This might be a the reason for it. In DAI we only had Iron Bull and Josephine for both the male and female protagonist. The rest had a preference for one way or the other. Idk how far Bioware is going in terms of the romance aspect of this game. Some of the characters outside of the squad may be worth romancing (though beating squad/companion romances will not be easy) so maybe they thought they could make characters any orientation they want within the squad with little backlash as there are other romances that'll satisfy the player somewhat that didn't get their specific type of romance within the squad. But imo and I'm probably in the minority here. I don't think Bioware should write characters for the intention of representation for a certain group or groups. They should just write characters they want with whatever orientation they want them to have and not be influenced by any pressure from fans. If there are more straight, homosexual, or bi characters than the other then who cares? get over it or find another game. It only hinders writers when they are writing for the sake of trying to fill a specific quota vs writing characters they are interested in writing.
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Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 0:45:16 GMT
Ever since the "player-sexual" controversy in DAII, BioWare has been really careful with how they depict sexual orientations in games. I noticed with DAI, in particular, that they wanted to make it clear certain characters just weren't interested in all. Sera flat out rejects the male Inquisitor, even though BioWare provides dialogue that allows you to flirt with her. I have a feeling we are going to see this likely return in MEA, with most of the characters preferring one gender over the other. Obviously, Cora is at least heterosexual due to the apparent romance in the trailer with BroRyder. It's possible she may also be interested in women, but BioWare might want to avoid the same situation DAII had where the player was choosing the sexual orientation for many of the companions. This might be a the reason for it. In DAI we only had Iron Bull and Josephine for bi. The rest had a preference for one way or the other. Idk how far Bioware is going in terms of the romance aspect of this game. Some of the characters outside of the squad may be worth romancing (though beating squad/companion romances will not be easy) so maybe they thought they could make characters any orientation they want within the squad with little backlash as there are other romances that'll satisfy the player somewhat that didn't get their specific type of romance within the squad. But imo and I'm probably in the minority here. I don't think Bioware should write characters for the intention of representation for a certain group or groups. They should just write characters they want with whatever orientation they want them to have and not be influenced by any pressure from fans. If there are more straight, homosexual, or bi characters than the other then who cares? get over it or find another game. It only hinders writers when they are writing for the sake of trying to fill a specific quota vs writing characters they are interested in writing. Actually, only Josephine was bisexual in DAI. Iron Bull was pansexual, meaning he could love both genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and other pansexuals. This is what I meant by BioWare being incredibly careful with how they represent sexual orientation, because they still want to make the companions have their own sexual identities. Even from just a realistic standpoint, most individuals are heterosexual, so in truth it would make more sense if most of the romances are heterosexual only. However, BioWare likes to be inclusive and try to represent as many sexual orientations as it can. It's an impossible feat of trying to please everybody as there's always going to be that one person that's disappointed. In my personal opinion, BioWare should just write the characters first and then determine orientation and preference based on the personality of that companion. With regards to Cora, and just based off of how romances were handled in DAI, I will be surprised if she is bisexual. I think Peebee is far more likely to be bisexual given Asari approach relationships entirely different from humans and don't actually appear to share a preference for one gender over the other. Aria is the one outlier due to the fact she only seems to have an interest in women.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:46:56 GMT
This might be a the reason for it. In DAI we only had Iron Bull and Josephine for bi. The rest had a preference for one way or the other. Idk how far Bioware is going in terms of the romance aspect of this game. Some of the characters outside of the squad may be worth romancing (though beating squad/companion romances will not be easy) so maybe they thought they could make characters any orientation they want within the squad with little backlash as there are other romances that'll satisfy the player somewhat that didn't get their specific type of romance within the squad. But imo and I'm probably in the minority here. I don't think Bioware should write characters for the intention of representation for a certain group or groups. They should just write characters they want with whatever orientation they want them to have and not be influenced by any pressure from fans. If there are more straight, homosexual, or bi characters than the other then who cares? get over it or find another game. It only hinders writers when they are writing for the sake of trying to fill a specific quota vs writing characters they are interested in writing. Actually, only Josephine was bisexual in DAI. Iron Bull was pansexual, meaning he could love both genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and other pansexuals. This is what I meant by BioWare being incredibly careful with how they represent sexual orientation, because they still want to make the companions have their own sexual identities. Even from just a realistic standpoint, most individuals are heterosexual, so in truth it would make more sense if most of the romances are heterosexual only. However, BioWare likes to be inclusive and try to represent as many sexual orientations as it can. It's an impossible feat of trying to please everybody as there's always going to be that one person that's disappointed. In my personal opinion, BioWare should just write the characters first and then determine orientation and preference based on the personality of that companion.With regards to Cora, and just based off of how romances were handled in DAI, I will be surprised if she is bisexual. My mistake you're correct on Bull. I should've just put available to both the male and female inquisitor. But yeah. Orientations and romance plots should come after the core characters' plot unless that characters' orientation will be incorporated in their story like Dorian.
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August 2016
crimsonn7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
CrimsonN7
17,287
13,982
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Post by Crim on Feb 22, 2017 0:48:32 GMT
If Cora isn't Bi my decision on that front will be much much easier. Ever since the "player-sexual" controversy in DAII, BioWare has been really careful with how they depict sexual orientations in games. I noticed with DAI, in particular, that they wanted to make it clear certain characters just weren't interested in all. Sera flat out rejects the male Inquisitor, even though BioWare provides dialogue that allows you to flirt with her. I have a feeling we are going to see this likely return in MEA, with most of the characters preferring one gender over the other. Obviously, Cora is at least heterosexual due to the apparent romance in the trailer with BroRyder. It's possible she may also be interested in women, but BioWare might want to avoid the same situation DAII had where the player was choosing the sexual orientation for many of the companions. That system will never come back, think Gaider said something along those lines. Was used mainly for time constraints I'd imagine, was just easier to have everyone up for grabs. DA2 was rushed as hell.
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August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 22, 2017 0:49:17 GMT
This might be a the reason for it. In DAI we only had Iron Bull and Josephine for bi. The rest had a preference for one way or the other. Idk how far Bioware is going in terms of the romance aspect of this game. Some of the characters outside of the squad may be worth romancing (though beating squad/companion romances will not be easy) so maybe they thought they could make characters any orientation they want within the squad with little backlash as there are other romances that'll satisfy the player somewhat that didn't get their specific type of romance within the squad. But imo and I'm probably in the minority here. I don't think Bioware should write characters for the intention of representation for a certain group or groups. They should just write characters they want with whatever orientation they want them to have and not be influenced by any pressure from fans. If there are more straight, homosexual, or bi characters than the other then who cares? get over it or find another game. It only hinders writers when they are writing for the sake of trying to fill a specific quota vs writing characters they are interested in writing. Actually, only Josephine was bisexual in DAI. Iron Bull was pansexual, meaning he could love both genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and other pansexuals. This is what I meant by BioWare being incredibly careful with how they represent sexual orientation, because they still want to make the companions have their own sexual identities. Even from just a realistic standpoint, most individuals are heterosexual, so in truth it would make more sense if most of the romances are heterosexual only. However, BioWare likes to be inclusive and try to represent as many sexual orientations as it can. It's an impossible feat of trying to please everybody as there's always going to be that one person that's disappointed. In my personal opinion, BioWare should just write the characters first and then determine orientation and preference based on the personality of that companion. With regards to Cora, and just based off of how romances were handled in DAI, I will be surprised if she is bisexual. By bisexual, I think @massbass meant they were available for male and female Inquisitors. After all even though he is pansexual Bioware still referred to The Iron Bull as bi numerous times because it was easier to express what they were trying to. Also Josephine's writer said it is perfectly valid to see Josephine as asexual or demisexual as well. That is how Bioware writes the characters, with the occasional exception like Dorian. They have said numerous times they write the characters first, and then they determine the sexual orientation of that character.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:52:21 GMT
Actually, only Josephine was bisexual in DAI. Iron Bull was pansexual, meaning he could love both genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and other pansexuals. This is what I meant by BioWare being incredibly careful with how they represent sexual orientation, because they still want to make the companions have their own sexual identities. Even from just a realistic standpoint, most individuals are heterosexual, so in truth it would make more sense if most of the romances are heterosexual only. However, BioWare likes to be inclusive and try to represent as many sexual orientations as it can. It's an impossible feat of trying to please everybody as there's always going to be that one person that's disappointed. In my personal opinion, BioWare should just write the characters first and then determine orientation and preference based on the personality of that companion. With regards to Cora, and just based off of how romances were handled in DAI, I will be surprised if she is bisexual. By bisexual, I think @massbass meant they were available for male and female Inquisitors. After all even though he is pansexual Bioware still referred to The Iron Bull as bi numerous times because it was easier to express what they were trying to. Also Josephine's writer said it is perfectly valid to see Josephine as asexual or demisexual as well. That is how Bioware writes the characters, with the occasional exception like Dorian. They have numerous times they write the characters first, and then they determine the sexual orientation of that character. Yep, that's what I meant. Edited my post to say both male and female protagonist to avoid confusion. Have this weird habit of calling any one who is open to being with either males or females bi. Just simple that way to me. And I did not know they wrote that way. Good to know. Edit: I think what tipped me off was that back in the old BSN people like Allan would come in threads and constantly talk about representation and the fact that some of the writers on twitter are very adamant about representation even now, so I thought that this was one of the factors they take into account when making their characters.
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Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 0:56:41 GMT
Ever since the "player-sexual" controversy in DAII, BioWare has been really careful with how they depict sexual orientations in games. I noticed with DAI, in particular, that they wanted to make it clear certain characters just weren't interested in all. Sera flat out rejects the male Inquisitor, even though BioWare provides dialogue that allows you to flirt with her. I have a feeling we are going to see this likely return in MEA, with most of the characters preferring one gender over the other. Obviously, Cora is at least heterosexual due to the apparent romance in the trailer with BroRyder. It's possible she may also be interested in women, but BioWare might want to avoid the same situation DAII had where the player was choosing the sexual orientation for many of the companions. That system will never come back, think Gaider said something along those lines. Was used mainly for time constraints I'd imagine, was just easier to have everyone up for grabs. DA2 was rushed as hell. I don't believe the player-sexual approach to romance ever will come back, due to the backlash from DAII as many bisexuals were offended by BioWare's handling of the situation. Of course, Gaider is no longer at BioWare, so what he says may not hold much credibility anymore. Actually, only Josephine was bisexual in DAI. Iron Bull was pansexual, meaning he could love both genders, but also transgendered, androgynous, and other pansexuals. This is what I meant by BioWare being incredibly careful with how they represent sexual orientation, because they still want to make the companions have their own sexual identities. Even from just a realistic standpoint, most individuals are heterosexual, so in truth it would make more sense if most of the romances are heterosexual only. However, BioWare likes to be inclusive and try to represent as many sexual orientations as it can. It's an impossible feat of trying to please everybody as there's always going to be that one person that's disappointed. In my personal opinion, BioWare should just write the characters first and then determine orientation and preference based on the personality of that companion. With regards to Cora, and just based off of how romances were handled in DAI, I will be surprised if she is bisexual. By bisexual, I think @massbass meant they were available for male and female Inquisitors. After all Josephine's writer said it is perfectly valid to see Josephine as asexual or demisexual as well as bisexual. That is how Bioware writes the characters, with the occasional exception like Dorian. They have numerous times they write the characters first, and then they determine the sexual orientation of that character. I agree. I was just making the distinction because BioWare went out of its way to show a difference and that they all weren't bisexual. That's why I won't expect to see a lot of characters in MEA that are suggested as being bisexual, unless it plays into their personality and story. Well, that's good to know! I think it's far more authentic and believable when the writers just create the character and then go back later and decide a sexual preference. Especially if you don't happen to share the orientation of the character you are writing, it's dangerous writing for a character like Dorian when you, yourself, aren't homosexual.
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8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Feb 22, 2017 1:36:30 GMT
This will not be resolved in discussion and is becoming off-topic at this point. You have your interpretation and I have mine. My interpretation being based on knowing the actual difference between an antagonist and a villain. Solas is not a villain in DAI, since he does nothing inherently negative or villainous during his time with the Inquisition. That being said, he does constitute something of an anti-villain and serves as the true hidden antagonist of the game, since his ultimate motivations being in opposition to the Inquisition, who were a means to an end for him. Hidden antagonists are a real storytelling device, serving as characters who can befriend or even help the protagonist, only to be later revealed to have agendas that are in opposition to them. For example; In DAO, Mouse appeared as an failed Circle apprentice who actively helped the Mage Warden throughout their Harrowing, only to be revealed as a Pride Demon attempting to trick them into allowing themselves to be possessed.
In ME2, Dr Kenson in the Arrival first appears as someone who's working to help stop the Reapers, only to subsequently turn on Shepard and reveal that she's been indoctrinated along with the entire base. Other examples from literature include; The Diary of Tom Riddle in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, which first appears to be a relatively benign magical item that offers help to both Ginny and Harry. It's ultimately be revealed as a fragment of Voldemort's soul, who was brainwashing Ginny to unleash the Basilisk and attack other students.
Mad-Eye Moody in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Despite helping Harry numerous times throughout the novel, he's ultimately revealed to be a disguised Barty Crouch Jr. He had been manipulating Harry and helping him to win the Triwizard Tournament, as part of his plan to delivery him right into Voldemort's hands.
One can be an antagonist while nevertheless helping the protagonist. Solas helps the Inquisition seal the Breach because it's necessary to complete his own goals, which never shifted from removing the Veil and restoring the Elves. He was always acting in opposition to the Inquisition, it simply didn't become apparent until he was forced to tip his hand during Trespasser. After all, he didn't have to have his spies tip off the Inquisition to the Qunari plot. He did so both as a favour to his former comrades and because the Qunari invasion would harder for his own plans to be implemented. He likewise saves the Inquisitor from the Anchor slowly killing them, despite knowing the Inquisition will try to stop him. These "good" deeds don't stop him being the antagonist of Trespasser however. But aye, we're getting way off-topic.
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15,378
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15,426
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Post by themikefest on Feb 22, 2017 2:10:54 GMT
The idea of even seeing Ash train with anybody that's not human, especially in ME1, is rather preposterous. You are absolutely right that Ash is petty. The moment she thinks Shepard has betrayed the Alliance for Cerberus is the moment she won't forgive him for all of ME2 and half of ME3. Honestly, she pointed a gun at Shepard on the Citadel and almost believed Udina over him/her. And had the ME3 squadmates, ones who supposedly have Shepard's back, spoken up when Udina says Shepard is working with Cerberus, Ashley/Kaidan may have lowered their weapon. Oh yeah. Cora thread. Go Cora
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Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 2:26:09 GMT
The idea of even seeing Ash train with anybody that's not human, especially in ME1, is rather preposterous. You are absolutely right that Ash is petty. The moment she thinks Shepard has betrayed the Alliance for Cerberus is the moment she won't forgive him for all of ME2 and half of ME3. Honestly, she pointed a gun at Shepard on the Citadel and almost believed Udina over him/her. And had the ME3 squadmates, ones who supposedly have Shepard's back, spoken up when Udina says Shepard is working with Cerberus, Ashley/Kaidan may have lowered their weapon. Oh yeah. Cora thread. Go Cora The point is, who in their right mind would ever believe Udina? He was literally the on-going punching bag of ME1 and ME2. I like Ash, but she's got to use that noggin of hers. Luckily, I don't believe Cora would ever turn her firearm against her superior, unless the Pathfinder is doing something absolutely deplorable. She doesn't come across as the kind of person who is easily fooled or deceived, especially by characters who have an incredibly bad track record. I have a feeling Cora is going to be the most dependable person on the team.
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themikefest
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August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Feb 22, 2017 2:35:42 GMT
The point is, who in their right mind would ever believe Udina? He was literally the on-going punching bag of ME1 and ME2. I like Ash, but she's got to use that noggin of hers. And when he shows the video of Shepard shooting the councilor? Ashley/Kaidan don't know its fake. The squadmates failed to stand up for Shepard. Yes Shepard could have done a better job explaining him/herself, but it would be nice if the squadmates said something to support Shepard saying what Udina mentions/shows is false. A simple line of dialogue might have been enough for A/K to lower their weapon. Cora thread. Cora will be the best squadmate for Ryder
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Lady Artifice
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August 2016
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Post by Lady Artifice on Feb 22, 2017 3:34:06 GMT
You are conflating a villain and a antagonist, which are mutually exclusive. The phrase "mutually exclusive" means two things that cannot occur simultaneously, such as a coin turning up both heads and tails. Villain and antagonist are aspects of a character that can occur independently, but they are actually more likely to coincide, which is why the two are often--inaccurately--conflated in the first place. That would have been a reasonable remark had you initially used that phrasing. It was your treatment of the word antagonist (when you said "is he [the archon] really an antagonist, though?") as though it were synonymous with villain that was such a gross misuse of terminology.
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 5:04:11 GMT
The point is, who in their right mind would ever believe Udina? He was literally the on-going punching bag of ME1 and ME2. I like Ash, but she's got to use that noggin of hers. And when he shows the video of Shepard shooting the councilor? Ashley/Kaidan don't know its fake. The squadmates failed to stand up for Shepard. Yes Shepard could have done a better job explaining him/herself, but it would be nice if the squadmates said something to support Shepard saying what Udina mentions/shows is false. A simple line of dialogue might have been enough for A/K to lower their weapon. Cora thread. Cora will be the best squadmate for Ryder Ah. I never considered Kaidan due to him always volunteering to be the sacrificial lamb on Virmire. Shame on him as well. Kaidan and Ashley knew Shepard better than anyone. I will not show them a shred of sympathy for pointing a gun at him when he had never let them down in the past. You are conflating a villain and a antagonist, which are mutually exclusive. The phrase "mutually exclusive" means two things that cannot occur simultaneously, such as a coin turning up both heads and tails. Villain and antagonist are aspects of a character that can occur independently, but they are actually more likely to coincide, which is why the two are often--inaccurately--conflated in the first place. That would have been a reasonable remark had you initially used that phrasing. It was your treatment of the word antagonist (when you said "is he [the archon] really an antagonist, though?") as though it were synonymous with villain that was such a gross misuse of terminology. It's a case by case basis. We can deal in likelihood and probabilities, but it ultimately gets us nowhere. My remarks were merely to point out he was misrepresenting Solas' role in DAI. He was not a antagonist in DAI. He was a antagonist in Trespasser. However, he was always a villain. I should have been more specific. Yes, I know the Archon is starting out as a antagonist. What I'm questioning is whether he'll maintain that position in the story. I don't believe he will. As far as whether he is a "villain" or not, I don't believe the real villain has presented itself at this time. Even though BioWare claims there is no "Reaper threat" in this game, there definitely seems to be aspects of a precursor civilization and that will likely have a significant impact on the story.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,296 Likes: 8,156
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8,156
The Elder King
6,296
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 22, 2017 7:34:24 GMT
The recent wallpapers released seems to have been well received, or at least better received then the kit. On twitter it's one like short of Vetra's, which was released before, and on GAF the reception was good as well.
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 8:31:31 GMT
The recent wallpapers released seems to have been well received, or at least better received then the kit. On twitter it's one like short of Vetra's, which was released before, and on GAF the reception was good as well. By "recent wallpapers" I'm assuming you are referring to this? I never really understood those who were being critical of Cora's appearance. I found her to be extremely attractive the moment BioWare revealed her.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,296 Likes: 8,156
inherit
104
0
8,156
The Elder King
6,296
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 22, 2017 9:03:16 GMT
The recent wallpapers released seems to have been well received, or at least better received then the kit. On twitter it's one like short of Vetra's, which was released before, and on GAF the reception was good as well. By "recent wallpapers" I'm assuming you are referring to this? I never really understood those who were being critical of Cora's appearance. I found her to be extremely attractive the moment BioWare revealed her. Yeah, I miswrote and used the plural. I found her attractive as well, but I think it's normal that some might not find her as such. The kit didn't help in that, but the humans' were worse then their in game appearance, and not everyone understand that they're not rapresentative of the game, as it was for DAI.
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Ocelot
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August 2016
ocelot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by Ocelot on Feb 22, 2017 9:10:14 GMT
Looking at the wallpaper, I can see why alot of people might not be a fan of her hairstyle.
It probably would have looked better if she didn't have the shaved sides.
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The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,296 Likes: 8,156
inherit
104
0
8,156
The Elder King
6,296
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 22, 2017 9:17:20 GMT
Looking at the wallpaper, I can see why alot of people might not be a fan of her hairstyle. It probably would have looked better if she didn't have the shaved sides. On that, I think it's strange/curious they went mid way. They could've shaved that side completely or not shaving it at all.
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2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 22, 2017 9:18:46 GMT
By "recent wallpapers" I'm assuming you are referring to this? I never really understood those who were being critical of Cora's appearance. I found her to be extremely attractive the moment BioWare revealed her. Yeah, I miswrote and used the plural. I found her attractive as well, but I think it's normal that some might not find her as such. The kit didn't help in that, but the humans' were worse then their in game appearance, and not everyone understand that they're not rapresentative of the game, as it was for DAI. Indeed. I don't think it's really fair to judge until folks are actually able to play the game and see the final characters in action. Looking at the wallpaper, I can see why alot of people might not be a fan of her hairstyle. It probably would have looked better if she didn't have the shaved sides. I suppose it's a matter of opinion. For me, personally, the hairstyle isn't nearly as important as her facial features. That being said, I actually don't mind how her hair is cut. Not to mention, she is in the military, so having long, flowing hair wouldn't exactly make sense in the game.
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