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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 15:30:48 GMT
You only think you are looking at things objectively but you aren't because if you were you'd realise a few things: One: Kalinda broke up with Peebee, she has no reason to feel hurt and abandoned and to act out. This is a mistaken assumption on your part. Two: It is your opinion that killing Kalinda is not the correct choice and that opinion you have is based on knowing the outcome of that decision. When your Ryder first makes that decision you have no idea of how it will turn out. You still don't because Kalinda could decide to go right back to trying to kill Ryder in MEA2 or in some DLC. Ryder has a split second to make a decision and without meta-gaming, it is impossible for Ryder to know the outcome. In that split second there is no right or wrong choice because Ryder has no idea that she'll show up to help later or even that Kalinda won't try to kill them again as soon as she has been rescued. Three: Kalinda hired Mercenaries to go after the Rem Tech that Peebee had discovered and hired Mercs to attack Peebee & Ryder on sight. Kalinda knew that Peebee would follow her, she hired people who kill for pay, knowing that Peebee could be killed by them. Kalinda's actions are a threat to Peebee's life. Four: You contradicting yourself by saying that you have no problem with people killing virtual characters but saying you find it distressing when people do. You can't have no problem with an action and find it distressing at the same time because if you find an action distressing then you do have a problem with it. You want Kalinda and Peebee's relationship to be merely rocky so you can judge people who decide to murder her because you've decided that there is no reason to do so. Only the meta-game can lead you to that conclusion, not the roleplay. Really no reason? She likely thought Peebee would come back. She had at least twice before. We know very little about Kalinda's motivation. And I am not so much making assumptions as pointing out other possible motivations and events to the ones you are presenting. The person that knows Kalinda best is Peebee, and at the time of Kalinda hanging from the ledge Peebee is the best person to decide whether to save Kalinda or let her fall. As for using meta knowledge, I don't use it for making my choice at the moment even in my replays. I am using it to highlight how people are misjudging Kalinda. Here is what I base my choice off every time I play through the loyalty mission. Is Kalinda an immediate threat? No. Is it safe to take the shot? No, might hit Peebee. As to my last point I get it is a game and you won't miss but firing in the direction of a friendly on a platform that "could" move at anytime is beyond reckless, also Scott and Sara both have had firearm training. As part of their training they would have gone over friendly fire situations, and if you don't pass muster, have fun with a non-combat assignment. So from an RP standpoint the twins should know better than to fire. As for contradicting myself. It could be taken that way. But then you have people saying in real life they would not convict someone of murder if they were the jury for a similar case. So I hope you can see my concern when people move it beyond the realm of fiction. Kalinda can be an immediate threat if she pulls on PB's hand, use her biotics to save her own ass and run, leaving us with either dead PB or severly injured. You're taking a shot when PB is in the middle of that platform, she's out of danger of being hit, way above Kalinda. Even if the platform shifts, you'll either hit below Kalinda's ass or above her head, but nowhere near PB.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 15:34:57 GMT
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correctamundo
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Apr 27, 2017 16:02:17 GMT
I ran the Kalinda conundrum by my family at dinner today. I dressed it up as a frontier/wild west situation. My wife shot Kalinda, my daughter wanted to save and my son refused to ansver. As for myself my trigger happy first Ryder shot Kalinda, maybe mainly because he felt she was future threat to his love. But for all the other wrongs as well. He also felt secure in the frontier role of Marshall, jury, judge and executioner. Of course Akksul among others died as well. I'm not sure my current Ryder will be ready to shoot Kslinda in her defenseless situation.
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Post by joglee on Apr 27, 2017 16:13:09 GMT
I get this is a game but I find it interesting and a bit alarming how some stretch things to justify murder. Because in the end that is what killing Kalinda entails. She has been pacified as a threat, so it is no longer self defense or defense of another. We should be better than looking at murder as a solution to a POSSIBLE future risk.
And comparing Kalinda to Majorlaine is ridiculous. Majorlaine betrayed Leliana and left her to face death for treason, then Majorlaine seeks out Leliana to kill her thinking she(Majorlaine) needs to do so since Leliana is likely kill her as an act of revenge. Kalinda and Peebee have a rocky relationship where they were on and off again. Peebee felt like she was being used and breaks it off. Which is common in some relationships today and isn't grounds for murder.
Now who is more like Majorlaine? Kalinda who vows to leave Peebee alone or Ryder who commits an act of murder to stop a POSSIBLE future threat?
When the hero starts justifying murder, they become the villain. War throughout mankind's history has ended with the leader of the opposing force slayed. Even if the leader submitted he was executed. It's just the way wars work, and frankly Kalinda sent a group to kill me, they failed and their leader payed the price....Such is the way of war.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 27, 2017 16:46:14 GMT
Really no reason? She likely thought Peebee would come back. She had at least twice before. We know very little about Kalinda's motivation. And I am not so much making assumptions as pointing out other possible motivations and events to the ones you are presenting. The person that knows Kalinda best is Peebee, and at the time of Kalinda hanging from the ledge Peebee is the best person to decide whether to save Kalinda or let her fall. As for using meta knowledge, I don't use it for making my choice at the moment even in my replays. I am using it to highlight how people are misjudging Kalinda. Here is what I base my choice off every time I play through the loyalty mission. Is Kalinda an immediate threat? No. Is it safe to take the shot? No, might hit Peebee. As to my last point I get it is a game and you won't miss but firing in the direction of a friendly on a platform that "could" move at anytime is beyond reckless, also Scott and Sara both have had firearm training. As part of their training they would have gone over friendly fire situations, and if you don't pass muster, have fun with a non-combat assignment. So from an RP standpoint the twins should know better than to fire. As for contradicting myself. It could be taken that way. But then you have people saying in real life they would not convict someone of murder if they were the jury for a similar case. So I hope you can see my concern when people move it beyond the realm of fiction. Kalinda can be an immediate threat if she pulls on PB's hand, use her biotics to save her own ass and run, leaving us with either dead PB or severly injured. You're taking a shot when PB is in the middle of that platform, she's out of danger of being hit, way above Kalinda. Even if the platform shifts, you'll either hit below Kalinda's ass or above her head, but nowhere near PB. Peebee isn't in the middle of the platform she is slighty off frame when you have the chance to shoot Kalinda, about 3-5 feet from Kalinda's hands. Kalinda is hanging on by her finger tips, about where her second knuckles bend. Do you know the amount of hand strength and focus it takes to support your entire body weight with you finger tips? I enjoy watching extreme rock wall climbers, and ninja warrior. Not many people manage it, and the ones that do train hand strength as part of their work out. I don't see Kalinda as the type to enjoy extreme climbing or training for it. Kalinda is so helpless it is ridiculous. Any move to pull Peebee in is almost certain death, and if she somehow manages it and still hangs on, she has to know Ryder will have no qualms about killing her. Hanging on your by finger tips, feeling the platform move/vibrate, and the heat of the lava below you; yea killing Peebee is high on her to do list at that point. She is staring death in the face, could she save herself with biotics? Does she risk breaking her concentration on maintaining what little grip she has? If she were alone I could see risking it, but why when you can call for help and have much better odds living.
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phantomrachie
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 27, 2017 17:23:31 GMT
Kalinda can be an immediate threat if she pulls on PB's hand, use her biotics to save her own ass and run, leaving us with either dead PB or severly injured. You're taking a shot when PB is in the middle of that platform, she's out of danger of being hit, way above Kalinda. Even if the platform shifts, you'll either hit below Kalinda's ass or above her head, but nowhere near PB. Peebee isn't in the middle of the platform she is slighty off frame when you have the chance to shoot Kalinda, about 3-5 feet from Kalinda's hands. Kalinda is hanging on by her finger tips, about where her second knuckles bend. Do you know the amount of hand strength and focus it takes to support your entire body weight with you finger tips? I enjoy watching extreme rock wall climbers, and ninja warrior. Not many people manage it, and the ones that do train hand strength as part of their work out. I don't see Kalinda as the type to enjoy extreme climbing or training for it. Kalinda is so helpless it is ridiculous. Any move to pull Peebee in is almost certain death, and if she somehow manages it and still hangs on, she has to know Ryder will have no qualms about killing her. Hanging on your by finger tips, feeling the platform move/vibrate, and the heat of the lava below you; yea killing Peebee is high on her to do list at that point. She is staring death in the face, could she save herself with biotics? Does she risk breaking her concentration on maintaining what little grip she has? If she were alone I could see risking it, but why when you can call for help and have much better odds living. I didn't realise that the people competing in Ninja Warrior had biotics. - the more you know.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 27, 2017 17:30:19 GMT
Peebee isn't in the middle of the platform she is slighty off frame when you have the chance to shoot Kalinda, about 3-5 feet from Kalinda's hands. Kalinda is hanging on by her finger tips, about where her second knuckles bend. Do you know the amount of hand strength and focus it takes to support your entire body weight with you finger tips? I enjoy watching extreme rock wall climbers, and ninja warrior. Not many people manage it, and the ones that do train hand strength as part of their work out. I don't see Kalinda as the type to enjoy extreme climbing or training for it. Kalinda is so helpless it is ridiculous. Any move to pull Peebee in is almost certain death, and if she somehow manages it and still hangs on, she has to know Ryder will have no qualms about killing her. Hanging on your by finger tips, feeling the platform move/vibrate, and the heat of the lava below you; yea killing Peebee is high on her to do list at that point. She is staring death in the face, could she save herself with biotics? Does she risk breaking her concentration on maintaining what little grip she has? If she were alone I could see risking it, but why when you can call for help and have much better odds living. I didn't realise that the people competing in Ninja Warrior had biotics. - the more you know. So do Peebee and Ryder, but you don't see them using it to pull Kalinda up or stop the artifact from falling. It would be the safest way to do it. But as with most cut scenes everyone has forgotten about biotics. If they were accounted for, it would be easy to save Kalinda and get the artifact, but Bioware wants to force a choice so they ignore the characters' abilities. I would have wrote the scene as choosing to allow Peebee to use her biotics to save Kalinda while Ryder forgoes the shot and uses biotics to grab the artifact.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
XBL Gamertag: phantomrachie
PSN: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 27, 2017 18:30:38 GMT
I didn't realise that the people competing in Ninja Warrior had biotics. - the more you know. So do Peebee and Ryder, but you don't see them using it to pull Kalinda up or stop the artifact from falling. It would be the safest way to do it. But as with most cut scenes everyone has forgotten about biotics. If they were accounted for, it would be easy to save Kalinda and get the artifact, but Bioware wants to force a choice so they ignore the characters' abilities. I would have wrote the scene as choosing to allow Peebee to use her biotics to save Kalinda while Ryder forgoes the shot and uses biotics to grab the artifact. That is not the point. Again you are dismissing how some else is RPing a situation because you don't think it's the right way and comparing the abilities of an alien from a video game to real life situations.
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Post by izut on Apr 27, 2017 18:53:35 GMT
I didn't realise that the people competing in Ninja Warrior had biotics. - the more you know. So do Peebee and Ryder, but you don't see them using it to pull Kalinda up or stop the artifact from falling. It would be the safest way to do it. But as with most cut scenes everyone has forgotten about biotics. If they were accounted for, it would be easy to save Kalinda and get the artifact, but Bioware wants to force a choice so they ignore the characters' abilities. I would have wrote the scene as choosing to allow Peebee to use her biotics to save Kalinda while Ryder forgoes the shot and uses biotics to grab the artifact. Ok, let me try this way... It's a very short and simple version of why I picked shooting her instead of saving her. Kalinda: - is an outlaw - end up as an enemy - wanted us dead and hired people to kill us - stalked PB for who knows how long to find a way to hurt her again (more cruel than last time, as always) - broke into Tempest - stole and broke POC (because she knew it'd hurt PB's feelings) - threatened to break Ryder (because she knows it is hurting PB's feelings) - was abusive and manipulative towards PB - can possibly pull on PB's hand to throw her into the lava - lived a double life, kept it in secret (she's a liar) Overal: 10 negative points. Rem-tech: - is unique, from all we know there's no second tech like this one so it's our only chance to get it - can quite possibly save many lives - can upgrade POC Overal: 2 strong positive points. Saving Kalinda consequences: *most possible: - she can go back to being an outlaw bitch (people like her never change) which mean she'll hurt and kill other people just to get what she wants - she can go after us at some point, because PB is with us (either as a crew or LI) or if we happen to want the same thing she does *less possible: - she'll vanish, we'll never hear from or about her - she'll change and maybe even help Nexus/outposts Overal: 2 negative with high possibility and 2 positive (well, her vanishing is questionable because she can still be bad, but I'm still putting it here) with less possibility.Shooting Kalinda consequecens: - we'll get a unique device that will for sure be very useful in the future, quite possibly save/protect many lives Overal: 1 strong positive. Kalinda and PB - save or shoot at that particular moment: - I don't trust her, she can kill or hurt PB by pulling her hand (and no one will persuade me otherwise, I'm not even sorry, it's a very logical approach after what she did) Kalinda or the tech if the future: - if I consider the situation like: save 1 outlaw bitch who proved to be dangerous or have a chance to save/protect lives of tousands of people... I'd rather pick those many people instead of 1 outlaw bitch (kinda like Asari Pathfinder over the entire ark of sleepers - the choice Sarissa had to do - although Ishara wasn't a dangerous bitch, she just end up in a shitty situation and it was her life or many others) - if the rem-tech proves to not be useful (which is impossible since we already know it has possibilities) and Kalinda will happen to go with one of the less possible scenarios, I'll pick her over the device and say I made a mistake by killing her before Right now, from my point of view, the most logical solution is to let her eat lava because it's 2 negative to 1 possible positive: lack of trust and highly useful tech that can save/protect lives to maybe she'll change. Like I said before, I let Rana live in ME1 and it was a mistake since we later finds out she was torturing and killing Asari. I let her live because I believed her. I'm not doing this again. I analysed facts and picked most logical way to go this time. PB understands and turns out to be kind of grateful, in her own way.
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mikaelnovasun
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 27, 2017 19:15:33 GMT
So do Peebee and Ryder, but you don't see them using it to pull Kalinda up or stop the artifact from falling. It would be the safest way to do it. But as with most cut scenes everyone has forgotten about biotics. If they were accounted for, it would be easy to save Kalinda and get the artifact, but Bioware wants to force a choice so they ignore the characters' abilities. I would have wrote the scene as choosing to allow Peebee to use her biotics to save Kalinda while Ryder forgoes the shot and uses biotics to grab the artifact. That is not the point. Again you are dismissing how some else is RPing a situation because you don't think it's the right way and comparing the abilities of an alien from a video game to real life situations. I get what you were saying and chose to ignore the sarcasm, quite similar how you seem to ignore or miss parts of my arguments. In part I was pointing out how some people see Kalinda's biotics as a threat, and don't take into account Peebee's and Ryder's biotics as well, or their shields/barriers for that matter. And it isn't about rping Kalinda as helpless, that is pretty much established by her hanging on the ledge with no weapon and begging for her life. The RP comes in when deciding if murdering her for her antics, or her future as a possible threat is justified. I find it isn't, you do. I like debating the topic, and it helps the work day go faster. So far nothing has been said to make me change my stance, if anything all this has only cemented my own take on the situation.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 27, 2017 20:29:29 GMT
i think the writers probably meant us to weigh up kalinda' life versus the Remtech. If they wanted me to choose her then they did a poor job of making her sympathetic as I find nothing redeemable about her.
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Post by izut on Apr 28, 2017 0:23:52 GMT
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
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PSN: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 28, 2017 7:19:14 GMT
That is not the point. Again you are dismissing how some else is RPing a situation because you don't think it's the right way and comparing the abilities of an alien from a video game to real life situations. I get what you were saying and chose to ignore the sarcasm, quite similar how you seem to ignore or miss parts of my arguments. In part I was pointing out how some people see Kalinda's biotics as a threat, and don't take into account Peebee's and Ryder's biotics as well, or their shields/barriers for that matter. And it isn't about rping Kalinda as helpless, that is pretty much established by her hanging on the ledge with no weapon and begging for her life. The RP comes in when deciding if murdering her for her antics, or her future as a possible threat is justified. I find it isn't, you do. I like debating the topic, and it helps the work day go faster. So far nothing has been said to make me change my stance, if anything all this has only cemented my own take on the situation. I didn't ignore any parts of your argument. I responded to each one in a number of posts. I even responded to the assumptions you made based on incorrect information. I 100% understand why you decided to save Kalinda, just as I understand why a person would decide to kill her. As I said at the begining, I can see valid reasons for doing both. My issue from the beginning is how you were judging people for making their own decisions, saying it distresses you that someone would make that choice and then you dismissed people's valid concerns about Kalinda, even though you agree that her behaviour was abusive. (being dominating & controlling to a partner is a form of emotional abuse)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
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PSN: phantomrachie
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 28, 2017 7:21:06 GMT
i think the writers probably meant us to weigh up kalinda' life versus the Remtech. If they wanted me to choose her then they did a poor job of making her sympathetic as I find nothing redeemable about her. IMO I think it's more weighing up agreeing to Peebee's request versus the Remtech. I don't like Kalinda at all, BUT I still saved her during my first playthrough because Peebee asked me too.
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Post by kumazan on Apr 28, 2017 10:00:19 GMT
i think the writers probably meant us to weigh up kalinda' life versus the Remtech. If they wanted me to choose her then they did a poor job of making her sympathetic as I find nothing redeemable about her. IMO I think it's more weighing up agreeing to Peebee's request versus the Remtech. I don't like Kalinda at all, BUT I still saved her during my first playthrough because Peebee asked me too. Yep, that was my take on it too. I saved her as well in my first PT, but I'm still not sure that was the right choice. I really need to start my second PT. *goes back to read Nexus Uprising*
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Post by Sifr on Apr 28, 2017 12:01:50 GMT
Looks like PB isn't wearing anything under her jacket I figured that's what the belt is so high up for, to ensure her jacket doesn't pop open and flash everyone.
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Post by Crim on Apr 28, 2017 12:41:04 GMT
Awwwwwwwwwwww, she's so damn cute, I'm crying :sob: I can't romance anyone else, only PB :sob: :sob: This 2nd run has been a struggle, I like Vetra buuuuuuuuuut Peebs is bae. I hate this goddamn trophy!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 28, 2017 14:02:23 GMT
I get what you were saying and chose to ignore the sarcasm, quite similar how you seem to ignore or miss parts of my arguments. In part I was pointing out how some people see Kalinda's biotics as a threat, and don't take into account Peebee's and Ryder's biotics as well, or their shields/barriers for that matter. And it isn't about rping Kalinda as helpless, that is pretty much established by her hanging on the ledge with no weapon and begging for her life. The RP comes in when deciding if murdering her for her antics, or her future as a possible threat is justified. I find it isn't, you do. I like debating the topic, and it helps the work day go faster. So far nothing has been said to make me change my stance, if anything all this has only cemented my own take on the situation. I didn't ignore any parts of your argument. I responded to each one in a number of posts. I even responded to the assumptions you made based on incorrect information. I 100% understand why you decided to save Kalinda, just as I understand why a person would decide to kill her. As I said at the begining, I can see valid reasons for doing both. My issue from the beginning is how you were judging people for making their own decisions, saying it distresses you that someone would make that choice and then you dismissed people's valid concerns about Kalinda, even though you agree that her behaviour was abusive. (being dominating & controlling to a partner is a form of emotional abuse) Thanks for putting words in my mouth and assuming my use of a phrase(s) matches your definition. I am not forcing my judgement on anyone, I am debating/arguing my opinion and/or offering counters to people's assumptions. Peebee was taken advantage of by an older more dominate partner. Other then that we don't get many details, we can fill in the blanks, and make assumptions. That people can entertain the idea of murder as justified even in a fictional setting is a concern, that doesn't mean I am condemning them or judging they are capable of actual murder. You seem to be making that leap for me. I could go into greater detail but this is already a bit more heavy then I wanted to get. Lets just say, it is a concern for me, but one I don't give much weight or thought to until it is brought up in discussion. After all I am playing the same game where I enjoy killing baddies with guns and and "force" powers. Anyway back on the subject of Peebee and the Asari. I had always questioned just how closely Asari anatomy resembled human female anatomy. Were they capable of intercourse or was melding their only means of sex that resulted in a state similar to the euphoria of an orgasm. Thanks to Peebee's romance we got the answer to both those questions. I wonder how big of a part the Protheans played in Asari evolution and did they push them to strongly resemble humans, or were they even closer to humans before the Protheans started meddling in their evolution. Were humans a sort of control group since the Protheans set up an observation/data storage post on Mars and left the humans alone? I doubt Bioware has thought this deeply about it other than making Asari attractive to the human eye. But it always stuck me as odd how human the Asari look compared to all the other species/races. And now we learn eyes brows are a recessive trait, and they use to have hair.
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phantomrachie
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: phantomrachie
XBL Gamertag: phantomrachie
PSN: phantomrachie
Posts: 323 Likes: 556
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Feb 20, 2018 11:24:23 GMT
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February 2017
phantomrachie
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by phantomrachie on Apr 28, 2017 14:41:08 GMT
I didn't ignore any parts of your argument. I responded to each one in a number of posts. I even responded to the assumptions you made based on incorrect information. I 100% understand why you decided to save Kalinda, just as I understand why a person would decide to kill her. As I said at the begining, I can see valid reasons for doing both. My issue from the beginning is how you were judging people for making their own decisions, saying it distresses you that someone would make that choice and then you dismissed people's valid concerns about Kalinda, even though you agree that her behaviour was abusive. (being dominating & controlling to a partner is a form of emotional abuse) Thanks for putting words in my mouth and assuming my use of a phrase(s) matches your definition. I am not forcing my judgement on anyone, I am debating/arguing my opinion and/or offering counters to people's assumptions. Peebee was taken advantage of by an older more dominate partner. Other then that we don't get many details, we can fill in the blanks, and make assumptions. That people can entertain the idea of murder as justified even in a fictional setting is a concern, that doesn't mean I am condemning them or believe they are capable of actual murder. I could go into greater detail but this is already a bit more heavy then I wanted to get. Lets just say, it is a concern for me, but one I don't give much weight or thought to until it is brought up in discussion. After all I am playing the same game where I enjoy killing baddies with guns and and "force" powers. Anyway back on the subject of Peebee and the Asari. I had always questioned just how closely Asari anatomy resembled human female anatomy. Were they capable of intercourse or was melding their only means of sex that resulted in a state similar to the euphoria of an orgasm. Thanks to Peebee's romance we got the answer to both those questions. I wonder how big of a part the Protheans played in Asari evolution and did they push them to strongly resemble humans, or were they even closer to humans before the Protheans started meddling in their evolution. Were humans a sort of control group since the Protheans set up an observation/data storage post on Mars and left the humans alone? I doubt Bioware has thought this deeply about it other than making Asari attractive to the human eye. But it always stuck me as odd how human the Asari look compared to all the other species/races. And now we learn eyes brows are a recessive trait, and they use to have hair. If you use different definitions than the norm for words like "distressing" or "objective" then you need to state what definition you're using at the start of the conversation so everyone knows what you are talking about. Claiming an action causes you distress means that you have a problem with it (because it's causing you extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain), the implication of that is that you are passing judgment on people who complete the action that causes you distress. For example, now I need to ask what you mean by 'taken advantage of' because usually when a person says that someone 'took advantage of them' in a relationship, they mean that they experienced some form of emotional or physical abuse, but you've said that you use different definitions that vary from the norm so now I don't know what you mean. If that is not what you meant, then that is fair enough. I'd recommend you choose words that reflect what you mean for future conversations.
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mikaelnovasun
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 546 Likes: 1,638
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February 2017
mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 28, 2017 15:34:08 GMT
Thanks for putting words in my mouth and assuming my use of a phrase(s) matches your definition. I am not forcing my judgement on anyone, I am debating/arguing my opinion and/or offering counters to people's assumptions. Peebee was taken advantage of by an older more dominate partner. Other then that we don't get many details, we can fill in the blanks, and make assumptions. That people can entertain the idea of murder as justified even in a fictional setting is a concern, that doesn't mean I am condemning them or believe they are capable of actual murder. I could go into greater detail but this is already a bit more heavy then I wanted to get. Lets just say, it is a concern for me, but one I don't give much weight or thought to until it is brought up in discussion. After all I am playing the same game where I enjoy killing baddies with guns and and "force" powers. Anyway back on the subject of Peebee and the Asari. I had always questioned just how closely Asari anatomy resembled human female anatomy. Were they capable of intercourse or was melding their only means of sex that resulted in a state similar to the euphoria of an orgasm. Thanks to Peebee's romance we got the answer to both those questions. I wonder how big of a part the Protheans played in Asari evolution and did they push them to strongly resemble humans, or were they even closer to humans before the Protheans started meddling in their evolution. Were humans a sort of control group since the Protheans set up an observation/data storage post on Mars and left the humans alone? I doubt Bioware has thought this deeply about it other than making Asari attractive to the human eye. But it always stuck me as odd how human the Asari look compared to all the other species/races. And now we learn eyes brows are a recessive trait, and they use to have hair. If you use different definitions than the norm for words like "distressing" or "objective" then you need to state what definition you're using at the start of the conversation so everyone knows what you are talking about. Claiming an action causes you distress means that you have a problem with it (because it's causing you extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain), the implication of that is that you are passing judgment on people who complete the action that causes you distress. For example, now I need to ask what you mean by 'taken advantage of' because usually when a person says that someone 'took advantage of them' in a relationship, they mean that they experienced some form of emotional or physical abuse, but you've said that you use different definitions that vary from the norm so now I don't know what you mean. If that is not what you meant, then that is fair enough. I'd recommend you choose words that reflect what you mean for future conversations. Are you serious? Someone who takes advantage of another no matter how minor such as simply hurt feelings or bruised pride is guilty of abuse? Maybe because I am a bit older(I suspect) then most gamers on this forum, but I grew up with it being part of teenage romance, and learning relationships. And to clarify I don't mean putting someone down until they feel worthless or trapped, or physically assaulting them. Growing up I was taken advantage of, and took advantage of others, it wasn't always intentional. I can now look back and say "She was a bit of a jerk", or "I was a bit of a jerk". It was part of learning relationships and what type of person I was attracted to and what type of people were attracted to me. To this day my wife can manipulate me into doing something I don't want. And it neither harms me emotionally or physically, I may grumble and complain but I do it. She knows me enough to take advantage of my quirks and attitude, and it isn't abuse. I find it funny, sad and a bit like trying to avoid a land mine with how some phrases now seem to have very different meanings from when I was a teenager/college student. It has gotten in me a few...disagreements...on these forums before.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by izut on Apr 28, 2017 16:40:17 GMT
If you use different definitions than the norm for words like "distressing" or "objective" then you need to state what definition you're using at the start of the conversation so everyone knows what you are talking about. Claiming an action causes you distress means that you have a problem with it (because it's causing you extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain), the implication of that is that you are passing judgment on people who complete the action that causes you distress. For example, now I need to ask what you mean by 'taken advantage of' because usually when a person says that someone 'took advantage of them' in a relationship, they mean that they experienced some form of emotional or physical abuse, but you've said that you use different definitions that vary from the norm so now I don't know what you mean. If that is not what you meant, then that is fair enough. I'd recommend you choose words that reflect what you mean for future conversations. Are you serious? Someone who takes advantage of another no matter how minor such as simply hurt feelings or bruised pride is guilty of abuse? Maybe because I am a bit older(I suspect) then most gamers on this forum, but I grew up with it being part of teenage romance, and learning relationships. And to clarify I don't mean putting someone down until they feel worthless or trapped, or physically assaulting them. Growing up I was taken advantage of, and took advantage of others, it wasn't always intentional. I can now look back and say "She was a bit of a jerk", or "I was a bit of a jerk". It was part of learning relationships and what type of person I was attracted to and what type of people were attracted to me. To this day my wife can manipulate me into doing something I don't want. And it neither harms me emotionally or physically, I may grumble and complain but I do it. She knows me enough to take advantage of my quirks, and attitude and it isn't abuse. I find it funny, sad and a bit like trying to avoid a land mine with how some phrases now seem to have very different meanings from when I was a teenager/college student. It has gotten in me a few...disagreements...on these forums before. Definitions didn't change over the years. Sexual abuse is unwanted sexual activity, with perpetrators using force, making threats or taking advantage of victims not able to give consent. www.apa.org/topics/sexual-abuse/4. take advantage of
a. to make good use of b. to impose upon the weakness, good nature, etc, of; abuse
c. to seduce www.thefreedictionary.com/take+advantage+oftake advantage of someone - to use someone's weakness to improve your situation dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/take-advantage-of-someoneabuse - 3. exploit, take advantage of, manipulate, misuse www.thefreedictionary.com/abuseProfessional abusers are the individuals who prey on the weaknesses of others in their workplaces or in other places related to economical strands of society. Their fundamental behavior is based in the following actions: taking advantage of their client or patient's trust exploiting their vulnerability not acting in their best interests failing to keep professional boundaries en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_abuseAlso, you repeat yourself with "people are justifying murder" when you were told killing Kalinda is a choice of logical reasons (protection is one of the most important ones) instead of simple hate, but you refuse to see those reasons as valuable, calling facts as assumptions and filling the blanks. I don't think we'll ever agree on this matter.
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mikaelnovasun
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 546 Likes: 1,638
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0
1,638
mikaelnovasun
546
February 2017
mikaelnovasun
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Apr 28, 2017 17:20:08 GMT
Are you serious? Someone who takes advantage of another no matter how minor such as simply hurt feelings or bruised pride is guilty of abuse? Maybe because I am a bit older(I suspect) then most gamers on this forum, but I grew up with it being part of teenage romance, and learning relationships. And to clarify I don't mean putting someone down until they feel worthless or trapped, or physically assaulting them. Growing up I was taken advantage of, and took advantage of others, it wasn't always intentional. I can now look back and say "She was a bit of a jerk", or "I was a bit of a jerk". It was part of learning relationships and what type of person I was attracted to and what type of people were attracted to me. To this day my wife can manipulate me into doing something I don't want. And it neither harms me emotionally or physically, I may grumble and complain but I do it. She knows me enough to take advantage of my quirks, and attitude and it isn't abuse. I find it funny, sad and a bit like trying to avoid a land mine with how some phrases now seem to have very different meanings from when I was a teenager/college student. It has gotten in me a few...disagreements...on these forums before. Definitions didn't change over the years. Sexual abuse is unwanted sexual activity, with perpetrators using force, making threats or taking advantage of victims not able to give consent. www.apa.org/topics/sexual-abuse/4. take advantage of
a. to make good use of b. to impose upon the weakness, good nature, etc, of; abuse
c. to seduce www.thefreedictionary.com/take+advantage+oftake advantage of someone - to use someone's weakness to improve your situation dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/take-advantage-of-someoneabuse - 3. exploit, take advantage of, manipulate, misuse www.thefreedictionary.com/abuseProfessional abusers are the individuals who prey on the weaknesses of others in their workplaces or in other places related to economical strands of society. Their fundamental behavior is based in the following actions: taking advantage of their client or patient's trust exploiting their vulnerability not acting in their best interests failing to keep professional boundaries en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_abuseAlso, you repeat yourself with "people are justifying murder" when you were told killing Kalinda is a choice of logical reasons (protection is one of the most important ones) instead of simple hate, but you refuse to see those reasons as valuable, calling facts as assumptions and filling the blanks. I don't think we'll ever agree on this matter. Since you are so handy with online dictionaries look up murder. Or better yet look up law explaining murder in any developed western country today, and tell me if it applies to killing Kalinda. Killing someone because they might be a threat in the future is murder. Killing someone because they are currently a threat is self defense/defense of another. Do you know how easy it would be to get away with murder if you could kill someone and justify it with well they were going to come after us in the future? In fiction I don't have a problem with that thought but once it bleeds over into life....that is where my concern lies. And the idea that definitions don't change over the years...have you ever taken an advanced english or literature class. I can give you one example: Gay. It used to mean happy, or content. Over time it became slang for homosexual, and then used as a derogatory adjective "That is so gay." You may want to look at a source older than the internet, since its online dictionaries are often updated with the latest slang. When I was in school dictionaries stuck to single words and their meanings, they avoided phrases and slang. Because at the time they felt it made for better learning of the language, and slang changed to fast to put in print. The internet wasn't a thing until I was senior in high school, and gaming was limited to MUDS done via modem. Yea I am that old
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jaerick243
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 209 Likes: 252
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May 18, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jaerick243 on Apr 28, 2017 17:30:04 GMT
1) this is a pretty good sketch so far 2) PLEASE tell me no one is watching them.
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izut
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by izut on Apr 28, 2017 17:30:51 GMT
Definitions didn't change over the years. Sexual abuse is unwanted sexual activity, with perpetrators using force, making threats or taking advantage of victims not able to give consent. www.apa.org/topics/sexual-abuse/4. take advantage of
a. to make good use of b. to impose upon the weakness, good nature, etc, of; abuse
c. to seduce www.thefreedictionary.com/take+advantage+oftake advantage of someone - to use someone's weakness to improve your situation dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/take-advantage-of-someoneabuse - 3. exploit, take advantage of, manipulate, misuse www.thefreedictionary.com/abuseProfessional abusers are the individuals who prey on the weaknesses of others in their workplaces or in other places related to economical strands of society. Their fundamental behavior is based in the following actions: taking advantage of their client or patient's trust exploiting their vulnerability not acting in their best interests failing to keep professional boundaries en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_abuseAlso, you repeat yourself with "people are justifying murder" when you were told killing Kalinda is a choice of logical reasons (protection is one of the most important ones) instead of simple hate, but you refuse to see those reasons as valuable, calling facts as assumptions and filling the blanks. I don't think we'll ever agree on this matter. Since you are so handy with online dictionaries look up murder. Or better yet look up law explaining murder in any developed western country today, and tell me if it applies to killing Kalinda. Killing someone because they might be a threat in the future is murder. Killing someone because they are currently a threat is self defense/defense of another. Do you know how easy it would be to get away with murder if you could kill someone and justify it with well they were going to come after us in the future? In fiction I don't have a problem with that thought but once it bleeds over into life....that is where my concern lies. And the idea that definitions don't change over the years...have you ever taken an advanced english or literature class. I can give you one example: Gay. It used to mean happy, or content. Over time it became slang for homosexual, and then used as a derogatory adjective "That is so gay." You may want to look at a source older than the internet, since its online dictionaries are often updated with the latest slang. When I was in school dictionaries stuck to single words and their meanings, they avoided phrases and slang. Because at the time they felt it made for better learning of the language, and slang changed to fast to put in print. The internet wasn't a thing until I was senior in high school, and gaming was limited to MUDS done via modem. Yea I am that old I told you PLENTY OF TIMES already why I chose to kill Kalinda, but I'll repeat myself this last time and end the discussion because I'm too tired of doing it over and over again and you not listening to it -> it was to PROTECT PB because I didn't trust her to not pull on PB's hand at that moment after she sent a whole army to kill me and my team. THIS ISN'T A MURDER. And btw, I'm old enough to remember times without Internet too. I have dictionaries and encyclopedias even from early 80's. The definision is very similar.
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