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Post by dragoneffectlady on Nov 21, 2016 17:01:04 GMT
Ok, I love the Krogan's, and when I saw some in the promo trailers I will admit that there was some girlish screaming. But, there is a possible problem I can see with this.
The Andromeda Innicitive leaves around the events of ME2. So it's safe to say, the Krogan's are still carrying the Genophage. Their population is dwindling.
We know that the council races are going, and they willl colonise and populate new areas, and need fertile people. Although Krogan's are not one of the council races, we've been told by Mac Walters via Twitter that each race will have it's genders appear in MEA, and we've already seen 2-3 different Krogan's in the trailers.
So if the Krogan are to colonise along with the other races, on their own arc or sharing one with one of the other races (asari or humans most likely if this is the case), how will they tackle their low fertility rate? Especially with the Salarians and Turians on the expedition. Will they be cured of the Genophage? Are the Krogan coming on the trip exceptionally fertile for their species, or are they not going to colonise and are simply something of merc/body guard types along to help with settling in and getting rid of any hostile natives of Andromeda?
Let me know what you think!! Just something that popped into my head. Do the poll!!! #spacebearinnicitive Follow me on Twitter @thevaultagelady for ME:Andromeda News and Theories!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 21, 2016 17:08:36 GMT
The Genophage by itself doesn't doom the krogan to dwindling numbers. That is caused by them living on Tuchanka which is a very hostile world as well as the krogan continuing to fight others and each other. A krogan female can lay a clutch of up to 1000 eggs a year, and the Genophage was designed to have a 1 in 1000 fertility rate, meaning that krogan females should have up to 1 child a year. That puts their numbers no more in danger than humans, even safer since krogan can live to 2000 years at least. So if they find a world that is less hostile than Tuchanka, their numbers will be among the steadiest of all the races.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 17:12:03 GMT
What Hanako said. The krogans can still colonize planets (as a matter of fact the GI coverage suggested that), they'll simply not grow nearly on the same speed the krogans will in the MW if you cured them.
It was frankly the best option to solve the krogan issue, since leaving post war or during the war but after the genophage arc would lead to two completely different scenario.
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 21, 2016 17:31:38 GMT
The better question is, why are the Krogan in Andromeda in the first place?
Either they have the genophage and there is no viable way for small numbers to establish a colony somewhere else (hell, their numbers are dwindling even in the Milky Way and they send fertile females to Andromeda?). If it's tough for the other species to establish colonies with a whole Ark ship full of people, how tough would it be for even less (have no Ark of their own) genophaged Krogan, especially given their usual life style?
If the ones that they send don't have the genophage (are fertile and can reproduce fertile offspring as they are now completely isolated from the non-viable population) and this is their effort to re-establish a healthy offshoot of their civilization somewhere else, why would the council races bring them along in the arcs? Especially the Turians and Salarians see healthy Krogan as a massive threat. They would never just bring them along.
The Krogan themselves have no way of funding a massive project like this. We know for a fact that they have no Ark ship of their own, so they must be attached to the Nexus somehow. But if they didn't help with the funding, what incentive do the other races have to bring any of them along? Given the aggressive nature of the Krogan, they have every reason not to take them.
Also, Krogan have an issue with prolonged space travel, due to their territorial instincts. Even when just transported from one planet to another in the Milky Way, they have to be sedated. Is it really wise to bring those guys along if colonizing planets might be a really long term issue (the whole pathfinder program seems to already imply that the colonists expect to have to do quite a bit of reconnaissance before they can start actually settling a planet. Of course, with everyone being in cryo sleep, they could just wake the Krogan up after a planet was found but again, why take all those risks?
It might (and I stress might) make sense to take a few infertile Krogan as soldiers, bodyguards and to do some grunt work but we've already heard about a Krogan colony ship, so clearly there is more going on.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Krogan and I wouldn't want to miss them in Andromeda but in terms of the lore, the writers will have to bend it into quite a few knots to make the Krogan work with the AI.
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Post by SofNascimento on Nov 21, 2016 17:45:10 GMT
The Arks make everything plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually cured the genophage as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 21, 2016 17:47:08 GMT
The Genophage by itself doesn't doom the krogan to dwindling numbers. That is caused by them living on Tuchanka which is a very hostile world as well as the krogan continuing to fight others and each other. A krogan female can lay a clutch of up to 1000 eggs a year, and the Genophage was designed to have a 1 in 1000 fertility rate, meaning that krogan females should have up to 1 child a year. That puts their numbers no more in danger than humans, even safer since krogan can live to 2000 years at least. So if they find a world that is less hostile than Tuchanka, their numbers will be among the steadiest of all the races. Every time the details of Krogan birth rate and the genophage are being discussed I feel the urge to pull at my hair... (whoever wrote this really didn't think things through) Another factor for Krogan deaths seems to be their violent nature and tendency to war with whatever is available, not merely Tuchanka. As for the length of their lives, do you actually have a source? 2000 years at least seems a little exaggerated. Wrex seems to be at the "Patriarch" stage to borrow the Asari concept, and he's supposed to be around 800-900 years old IIRC. I noted the warlike mentality of them to be a reason of their dwindling numbers. Wrex is much older than that. He was around during the Krogan Rebellions, leading a small clan by the time of the immediate aftermath. We learn this when he talks about his reasons for leaving Tuchanka. So if he was just an adult at that time he would be 1400 years old. Patriarch on Omega is even older, telling stories of not only the Krogan Rebellions but even the Rachni War making him around 2000 years old. I put at least since it is never stated how long they can live, but we have a member of the race who is that old and still alive.
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 21, 2016 17:50:36 GMT
The only good krogan is a .......
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 17:51:44 GMT
Okeer is around 1400 years old a well, probably far more if he was already a warlord.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 21, 2016 17:52:39 GMT
The Arks make everything plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually cured the genophage as well. No, it doesn't. At least for several people.
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Post by dalinne on Nov 21, 2016 23:18:36 GMT
#spacebearinnicitive Krogan know
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Post by Nayawk on Nov 21, 2016 23:50:37 GMT
What I'd like to see and what we will see are most likely very different.
I just don't think the clans would let fertile females go on some council led space mission at that point in the timeline. Most of the Krogan we meet are very distrustful of the council as a body and the council races in general. ME3 kind of back tracked on it a little but the impression I always got was that fertile females were treated as prizes of war, with breeding rights fought over. I don't see any clan giving that up easily.
I would like to see the Krogans we have being in it for the cash/hired muscle who have come to terms with either being barren themselves, or knowing they will never earn breeding rights, or just not caring about it. If a few kids happen as happy accidents as the Krogans naturally overcome genophage then fine, but I don't want to see an active Krogan effort to stock the Ark with a breeding population.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 22, 2016 0:30:02 GMT
Even without a cure, the Krogan in Andromeda can eventually adapt to counter-act it's effects.
Due to the Krogan have an extremely resilient and adaptive physiology, they were already starting to overcome the effects of the Genophage shortly before the events of the original trilogy. Mordin's STG team had to be sent to deploy a modified strain to bring the Krogan's birthrates back down to "acceptable levels", so they wouldn't pose a threat.
Without interference and left to their own devices, in about another millennia and a half, Krogan physiology will probably end up adapting to counteract the new strain as well.
On the other hand, since the Salarians have demonstrated the ability to tweak the Genophage, there's no reason they couldn't attempt to create another strain that increases their birthrates slightly, so the Krogan don't have to worry about going extinct due to a dwindling population.
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Post by daniel on Nov 22, 2016 11:22:52 GMT
Interesting theory. They might have joined the initiative for that very reason and they wouldn't know about the failure/succes on curing the genophage since they all left before that took place.
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Post by Wulfram on Nov 22, 2016 11:42:19 GMT
I think the Genophage being uncured makes it more plausible that they'd be taken along. Cured Krogan would be seen as more of a threat than an asset.
Though I'm not sure I totally buy that they'd be taken along anyway. The council races generally seem to have treated the Krogan like crap. I guess they can offer some good survival skills, and the AI probably wasn't overwhelmed with volunteers for such a quixotic mission.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 22, 2016 11:45:10 GMT
I think the Genophage being uncured makes it more plausible that they'd be taken along. Cured Krogan would be seen as more of a threat than an asset. Though I'm not sure I totally buy that they'd be taken along anyway. The council races generally seem to have treated the Krogan like crap. I guess they can offer some good survival skills, and the AI probably wasn't overwhelmed with volunteers for such a quixotic mission. It seems we have 100k for each Arks, plus the people in the Nexus for each of the 4 species, so I think there's enough volunteers. I think it depends a bit if we'll see a lot of the other species inside the Nexus. In this case it might mean they just decided to add almost everyone.
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Post by Obliviousmiss on Nov 22, 2016 12:30:33 GMT
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Post by KamenRyder on Nov 22, 2016 13:02:56 GMT
If it's a choice to cure them of the genophage again, I'll do it again. Since the Salarians are part of the one way trip they probably got some scientists in the cut ready to update the genophage just in case. I'm not down with that. New galaxy with new species that will probably hate us, we need all the muscle we can get
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Post by merkit on Nov 22, 2016 13:08:15 GMT
and the AI probably wasn't overwhelmed with volunteers for such a quixotic mission. Or it got the types of volunteers that would require a small army of krogan to keep "sequre".
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Post by General Aetius on Nov 22, 2016 13:30:35 GMT
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Post by Hoge on Nov 22, 2016 13:52:43 GMT
Well if a single Salarian scientist such as Maleon had created a cure, who's to say one of the brilliant minds behind the AI wouldn't have one? It'll be interesting none-the-less to see how they deal with the Genophage/Krogans.
Still trying to figure out what an "Innicitive" is though.
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 22, 2016 13:57:04 GMT
I can't see why the settlers would desire to cure the Krogan genophage, before you even factor in that it would lessen the effort and achievement that went into curing in the first place. With the Krogan's birth rates they could very quickly be in a position to threaten the other colonies. I can see why they might want them there as muscle though. It'll be interesting if the genophage is a plot point again if the Krogan want to be more than muscle.
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Post by hipi07 on Nov 22, 2016 14:01:43 GMT
I could perfectly see the Krogan arriving in Andromeda and seeing it as a fresh chance for their species with some turning hostile and I guess escaping off into some parts of the Heleus Cluster to make their own colonies. They would eventually overcome the Genophage, assuming those taken on the trip with the ARK's were not cured already. Thing is though would the Andromedan Krogans, assuming they actually build an empire of sorts, go back to the Milky Way to help or 'liberate' the other Krogan?
It's pretty curious to think as well that a Krogan could perfectly make the trip to Andromeda and return to the Milky Way in a single life time. I'm sure that kind of longevity would be extremely valuable to the Initiative, aside from Krogans being the perfect shock troops who can adapt to nearly any environment.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 22, 2016 14:02:10 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Isn't one of the books titled "The Nexus Uprising"?
Maybe the Krogans revolted (again).
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Post by MrR40 on Nov 22, 2016 19:25:11 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Isn't one of the books titled "The Nexus Uprising"?
Maybe the Krogans revolted (again).
Perhaps some Salarian faction with less to no scrupules brought along captured Krogans for further study and experimentation. Trying to control them somehow. Random thought there but as stated by others I cannot see them funding their own ship let alone find enough volunteers to fill it. Also weren't fertile female Krogans rare ? Biggest reason for joining is getting paid for merc labour and the chance for breaking heads in a new galaxy. This all makes me wonder if BW is going to retcon stuff. " Surprise ! We had a cure for the Genophage all along. you' ll get it if you join us to Andromeda ! "
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 20:30:41 GMT
Going against all social norms among ME and BSN fans, I just never liked the krogans. Wrex' personality was fine and Grunt had his youthful charms but as a whole I would prefer that the krogans either be excluded from Andromeda (which they won't; they're way too popular) or I'd like to see improvement in their personalities and culture (won't happen) for the ones we meet in the game. Perhaps all the male and female krogans will be neutered and spayed before cryo. Lol - I can only hope....
The krogans are war tanks and that's the problem I have with them for being on this mission to Andromeda. In my view they are simply unsuited for first contact. Their culture is not one for 'trying to get along' with new aliens. We need tanks? I don't think so because the humans, turians, salarians and asari military tagging along on the arks are perfectly capable of protecting the whole group, and they have the cultural sense to know when to stand down and try the softer approach with building positive relationships. But then I'm story oriented, not combat crazy. Sending krogans into a new galaxy with colonizers and explorers is like sending Gen. Custer and his dutiful brethren along with Lewis and Clark and Sacagawea (also spelled Sakakawea or Sacajawea). The travelers need tact, diplomacy, survival skills, adaptability, and defensive protection as paramount skills, imo. Taking along a war-oriented offensive military culture? They are way out of place for an expedition. That's my take on this topic.
Note: I know I'm a minority voice and know full well that there are many who will feel I have so personally insulted them (I haven't) with a differing opinion of their favorite race that some cannot help but flame me from the comfort and safety of sitting bleary-eyed behind their internet wall jack. If so, please stand down. I'm not looking for a fight and I won't respond to any provocation, unless you want to square off with me in MP in PvP combat - where I won't show up either.
Krogans will be in Andromeda and that's not a problem for me. I just hope we will see them do more then attack everyone they meet or hire out as mercs. I'm hoping we'll see a few more favorable dimensions to their core values and personalities - that's all.
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