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Post by Sihmm on Nov 23, 2016 17:14:07 GMT
After months of it languishing unfinished on my desktop, I’ve tidied up and released my N7 Shadow spreadsheet for Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. Download it for Microsoft ExcelFrom the user’s point of view it’s a simple tool to determine how much damage your Shadow Strike will do to any given target on Gold or Platinum difficulties. It could do far more but my spreadsheet skills are rusty and it was tough enough just to get it in a decent state to unleash on the general public, so that’s all it does for now and, perhaps, forever. One neat little feature is that it will show you an almost graphical representation of what your target’s health bar will look like after you hit it: I’m very proud of that because I think it’s quite cool. And if your first thought when you look at it is “why are the Barrier bars shield blue instead of barrier purple?” my reply to you is “ ". This is what the UI looks like: The math behind it is a bit of a hack and I kind of gave up on it months ago, but when I gave up on it it did actually work - so far as I can tell. The mechanics and values involved were gleaned from old BSN, Cyonan's spreadsheets and quite a lot of in-game testing. If you encounter anything weird, test it in-game then let me know the result. It's certainly not impossible that there's a few wrong values or interactions in there that I just never weeded out. However, having said that, I did use a much earlier version of this to create the N7 Shadow build that I used for my Platinum solo, and that all worked out as expected. So, hopefully not entirely broken. Download it and try it out so that I feel better about spending the last few hours of my life making it presentable. Also posted about it in slightly, slightly more detail on my blog.
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Post by inert on Nov 23, 2016 19:17:30 GMT
Answer: No. A better kit will kill the enemy before you even swing.
Interesting stuff - nice work.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 23, 2016 20:44:33 GMT
I applaud the work you've put in!
Shadow Strike is hard to calculate on the fly, because the numbers do change according to oddities in when Shadow Strike counts as a "melee attack," and that it benefits from Melee damage bonuses, including the bonus from the fitness tree for killing an enemy with a heavy melee attack.
I don't play Platinum (except when KJ forces me to) so I've trimmed everything I can get away with and still OSK enemies on Gold. Phantoms are in the grey zone, sometimes surviving until the DoT finishes them, and sometimes being OSK'd outright (presumably when bonus for a "Heavy Melee kill" is active.)
Strangely, I actually prefer to be against Cerberus, in spite of Phantom's less-predictable nature. Probably because the Shadow really does seem designed to dismantle them, specifically!
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Post by nucleartech76 on Nov 23, 2016 20:52:12 GMT
Answer: No. A better kit will kill the enemy before you even swing. Interesting stuff - nice work. A shadow with a black widow and selective shadow striking to reposition can put in some work. Shadow strike is way too slow a power and if the enemy has line of sight you'll take a Melee to the face mid shadow strike way too often. Shadow is a character with a lot of nuance to play at a high level with good players on your team.
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 23, 2016 21:03:40 GMT
It's no secret that there are many issues with Shadow Strike as a power. For those of us still willing to stick with it, I hope the spreadsheet is helpful. From my experience (I spent a lot of time playtesting her leading up to my melee spec Plat solo), the main reason for SS doing less than expected damage is when enemies have some form of damage protection active. Off the top of my head, this includes: - Spawn protection - when enemies have just recently spawned onto the map
- Dodge rolls - especially annoying on solos, enemies (especially Phantoms) will sometimes dodge your SS as they 'peek behind the curtain' to see you coming
- Being in cover (?)
- Phantoms get various forms of crazy DR depending on factors like their taste in music, how many times they've played with their pet space hamsters that day, and the phase of Palavan's moons
(And yep, Martial Artist bonus dropping off is of course another cause.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 17:50:56 GMT
That's brilliant, thank you.
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Post by Voluptuous Volus on Nov 24, 2016 18:27:47 GMT
Can it kill an unshielded Atlas in a single strike? Oh...wait
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Post by Alfonsedode on Nov 24, 2016 18:35:28 GMT
Nice stuff, i thought we had a small SS calculator somewhere, and AFAIK kalence calculation are ok. Anyway, that s way better to see all your impact on enemies I d like to solo plat with a melee build... Anyway a pro like u could hit a good spot on the gold speedrun HoF with melee
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 24, 2016 19:01:26 GMT
Nice stuff, i thought we had a small SS calculator somewhere, and AFAIK kalence calculation are ok. Anyway, that s way better to see all your impact on enemies I d like to solo plat with a melee build... Anyway a pro like u could hit a good spot on the gold speedrun HoF with melee A commenter on reddit linked me this spreadsheet, which I didn't previously know about but may be what you're thinking of. Kalence is great but it gets complicated trying to work out what'll happen to an actual enemy based on reading numbers off the site
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Post by Alfonsedode on Nov 24, 2016 19:58:09 GMT
Nice stuff, i thought we had a small SS calculator somewhere, and AFAIK kalence calculation are ok. Anyway, that s way better to see all your impact on enemies I d like to solo plat with a melee build... Anyway a pro like u could hit a good spot on the gold speedrun HoF with melee A commenter on reddit linked me this spreadsheet, which I didn't previously know about but may be what you're thinking of. Yeah, but i thought it wld be linked or saved somewhere on here Kalence is great but it gets complicated trying to work out what'll happen to an actual enemy based on reading numbers off the site That s what i meant too. Now that i think about it, i remember some bug in kalence, maybe with rank 6 of SS
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Post by Filippopotame on Nov 26, 2016 22:38:10 GMT
Great work ! This is acctually quite usefull when crafting a build. Maybe you could add a case saying "is the target subject to sabotage ?" because an armor damage specced shadow striking a sabotaged unit can do wonders.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Nov 27, 2016 8:16:22 GMT
Great work ! This is acctually quite usefull when crafting a build. Maybe you could add a case saying "is the target subject to sabotage ?" because an armor damage specced shadow striking a sabotaged unit can do wonders. i m not sure i ever duoed that, sounds fun
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Post by srgtcolon on Nov 27, 2016 12:14:45 GMT
Tip hat Sihmm . Nice work. I believe the SS TC glitch was never corrected, that is Shadow's TC gives double generic bonus towards SS, something like TC bonus is bumping both melee and power bonus calculations. So the long cloak has 2x40% bonus, the short has 2x80% bonus for SS. Btw. Kalence is calculating this way, so the SS damage mismatch there is not a bug, Kalence is considering this glitch live. I once set out to prove Kalence right or wrong, it was inconclusive, but I couldn't prove it wrong. This is my google sheet version of the calculation, never had the time (or skill) to tidy it up. And when I found that platinum phantoms can't be OHKd consistently I lost interest.
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 27, 2016 14:01:03 GMT
Great work ! This is acctually quite usefull when crafting a build. Maybe you could add a case saying "is the target subject to sabotage ?" because an armor damage specced shadow striking a sabotaged unit can do wonders. That's interesting, I'd never considered the effect of other powers that boost tech damage. I'd certainly add that in. Are there any others besides Sabo rank 6, and are we sure how they interact with SS?
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 27, 2016 14:04:52 GMT
Tip hat Sihmm . Nice work. I believe the SS TC glitch was never corrected, that is Shadow's TC gives double generic bonus towards SS, something like TC bonus is bumping both melee and power bonus calculations. So the long cloak has 2x40% bonus, the short has 2x80% bonus for SS. Btw. Kalence is calculating this way, so the SS damage mismatch there is not a bug, Kalence is considering this glitch live. I once set out to prove Kalence right or wrong, it was inconclusive, but I couldn't prove it wrong. This is my google sheet version of the calculation, never had the time (or skill) to tidy it up. And when I found that platinum phantoms can't be OHKd consistently I lost interest. Hm, I'd not heard of this glitch. In my testing and gameplay I didn't encounter anything to suggest this was happening, but I could certainly believe it. With the help of the spreadsheet should be able to find a good test case for it. Nice spreadsheet there yourself! I use Excel because I've always used it, so I find it easier to work with (especially if trying to do fancy stuff with Conditional Formatting) - but I'd far rather the accessibility and portability of a google docs version.
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Post by Filippopotame on Nov 27, 2016 14:58:28 GMT
Great work ! This is acctually quite usefull when crafting a build. Maybe you could add a case saying "is the target subject to sabotage ?" because an armor damage specced shadow striking a sabotaged unit can do wonders. That's interesting, I'd never considered the effect of other powers that boost tech damage. I'd certainly add that in. Are there any others besides Sabo rank 6, and are we sure how they interact with SS? As far as I know sabotage 6b is the only power that boosts specificly tech damage. The way I imagine it works is a 1.5 multiplicative bonus but I don't have any specific data to support this. Great work ! This is acctually quite usefull when crafting a build. Maybe you could add a case saying "is the target subject to sabotage ?" because an armor damage specced shadow striking a sabotaged unit can do wonders. i m not sure i ever duoed that, sounds fun It's super fun, let's do this any day ! For instance you can oneshot a gold banshee's armor.
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Post by srgtcolon on Nov 27, 2016 17:38:00 GMT
Hm, I'd not heard of this glitch. In my testing and gameplay I didn't encounter anything to suggest this was happening, but I could certainly believe it. With the help of the spreadsheet should be able to find a good test case for it. The most authentic source is Peddroelm's numerical tests thread from the old BSN. We (c/o Alfonsedode ) saved most of that thread under separate section here on neo BSN, shadow strike info. Also a here is the link to original post as archived by the WaybackMachine. Excerpt: -BUG Shadow strike gets the damage bonus from tactical cloak twice (once as a melee attack once as a "power").. Most -probably caused by the "is melee and is also power" BUG ..It was expected to be corrected, however, afaik, bioware never got around to it. This is consistent with a long cloak shadow being able to OHK gold phantoms with omniblade and strength enhancer only, e.g. no PWR or GEAR bonus required. Direct kill with martial artist active and DOT kill without.
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 29, 2016 8:56:46 GMT
Did some quick tests this morning. Test 1 - Silver Assault TrooperHP: 1125 Build: Cloak 3 / SS 3Expected damage (no glitch): 960 Expected damage (double-dip): 1200 Result: Trooper dies Conclusion: SS doing more than 1125 damage Test 2 - Silver Centurion with shields downHP: 1240 Result: Centurion survives with 1 bar Conclusion: SS doing less than 1240 damage Test 3 - Gold Geth TrooperHP: 1856 Build: Cloak 4b / SS 3Expected damage (no glitch): 1620 Expected damage (double-dip): 1860 Result: Trooper dies Conclusion: SS doing more than 1856 damage Also struck a few more enemies to see if their HP bars were consistent with predictions though not quite so scientific. Result seems pretty clearly to show that SS does double-dip the damage bonus from both TC 1 and 4b. Will update spreadsheet to match. Presume TC 5b is not glitched but don't have time for any more tests right now!
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Post by Alfonsedode on Nov 29, 2016 9:17:07 GMT
Did some quick tests this morning. Test 1 - Silver Assault TrooperHP: 1125 Build: Cloak 3 / SS 3Expected damage (no glitch): 960 Expected damage (double-dip): 1200 Result: Trooper dies Conclusion: SS doing more than 1125 damage Test 2 - Silver Centurion with shields downHP: 1240 Result: Centurion survives with 1 bar Conclusion: SS doing less than 1240 damage Test 3 - Gold Geth TrooperHP: 1856 Build: Cloak 4b / SS 3Expected damage (no glitch): 1620 Expected damage (double-dip): 1860 Result: Trooper dies Conclusion: SS doing more than 1856 damage Also struck a few more enemies to see if their HP bars were consistent with predictions though not quite so scientific. Result seems pretty clearly to show that SS does double-dip the damage bonus from both TC 1 and 4b. Will update spreadsheet to match. Presume TC 5b is not glitched but don't have time for any more tests right now! I m sure u can trust peddro and kalence on the double impact of clock. I think theres a problem with the melee defense modifier on kalence, but not sure anymore
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Post by srgtcolon on Nov 29, 2016 19:30:07 GMT
perhaps you can use this test for something. I did this when someone on the forum said that SM 6A, shield damage is bugged, does nothing. Test shows that silver centurion survives SS without 6A but is OHK with 6A, nothing new really by now.
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Post by Sihmm on Nov 29, 2016 23:03:59 GMT
I m sure u can trust peddro and kalence on the double impact of clock. I think theres a problem with the melee defense modifier on kalence, but not sure anymore No trust issues here. I was on the boards cheering along when pedro was doing his excellent work and believe me, I don't take it for granted. Here, in the absence of a source and with some uncertainty over whether the glitch had been fixed or not, it made sense to test it myself. @srgtcolon thanks, that's great. I hope to tweak a few more things, but the fix for double-dipping has been uploaded and can be retrieved from the link in the OP.
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Post by Alfonsedode on May 7, 2020 14:23:11 GMT
Bump
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Post by K_O_513 on May 7, 2020 17:21:09 GMT
Yes
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Post by Boatinhovic111 on May 7, 2020 19:06:53 GMT
I want to shadowstrike full sacks Ravagers
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Post by xelander on May 7, 2020 20:08:05 GMT
I want to shadowstrike full sacks Ravagers But... but... but I don't have enough missiles for all them swarmers...
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