fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Nov 30, 2016 19:27:48 GMT
As someone who unabashedly loved Dragon Age Inquisition, one of my favorite things to come out of DAI was the Dragon Age Keep. I loved the ability to go through and set up new world states in a matter of a few minutes, without having to go through the previous two games and metagame the hell out of them to set things up specifically. Do I wish that those changes had a bigger impact on DAI? Sure, but it was still nice to see what was different on each playthrough.
So the question for the committee: Should Bioware set up a Keep type system for Mass Effect - beginning with Andromeda? Not the original trilogy, but starting here and now.
Now, there probably won't be the cross-generational platforms that made the Keep necessary for Dragon Age, but I think it would still be nice to be able to go through and set the world state for each new game without having to play through the other ones that come before it, because even if Andromeda is a "stand alone", I don't think anyone's dumb enough to think that there's not going to be at least "spiritual sequels" to it in the future taking place in the Andromeda Galaxy.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on Nov 30, 2016 19:35:58 GMT
No will not be one because Bio has no interest in carrying over anything that occurred previously...including their own lore.
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Post by LFS on Nov 30, 2016 19:45:32 GMT
I liked the Keep as a concept, and appreciated the ability to go in and fix things I fucked up, or tweak imports to see the difference it made (which, yes, usually very little ), but I do think the sheer scope of choices they accounted for turned it into a somewhat user-unfriendly behemoth, and made creating from-scratch World States frustrating and/or overly time-consuming. You are right though--this is a clean slate, and whatever happens in this first game will likely have a direct or indirect knock-on effect. It's only prudent for Bioware to have some contingency plan in place for dealing with that, be it through an external style Keep system or save imports. Whatever direction they go, I just hope it works.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 30, 2016 19:51:55 GMT
Yes, I think it's an inevitable solution as people change platform and devices.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 20:02:23 GMT
Carrying over choices means no choice can have major consequences. Because the next game means everything has to be zeroed out to account for divergent paths as well as new players. This is, in part, why we are fleeing the Milky Way in MEA. This is why all Divines in DAI take the name "Divine Victoria" and why Trespasser essentially undoes one of the biggest divergences in the game. If you want to make "big choices" that carry weight, keep them in the game itself, and forget about carrying the baggage into the next one. But if we have a Keep system, prepare to have all your choices be flavor text in codex entries at best. That or every few games we'll be travelling to new galaxies, locust-like as we flee the destruction caused by 'big choices"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 30, 2016 20:08:58 GMT
Yes, I think they absolutely should implement something like the Dragon Age Keep for the Mass Effect franchise, maybe call it Mass Effect Nexus or something. They plan many games for Andromeda, enough to call it a saga, so having choices transfer would be crucial and great.
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Post by Obliviousmiss on Nov 30, 2016 20:33:42 GMT
TURTLES
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fchopin
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Post by fchopin on Nov 30, 2016 20:35:54 GMT
I don't like the keep so hope we don't get one for ME:A. I would prefer something like we got in ME2 and ME3 so you can select the answers in the game.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 30, 2016 20:38:48 GMT
Yes because I love that I'm able to play DA2 on PC and then import that world-save to Inquisition on PS4. That's fantastic.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 20:39:55 GMT
Carrying over choices means no choice can have major consequences. Because the next game means everything has to be zeroed out to account for divergent paths as well as new players. This is, in part, why we are fleeing the Milky Way in MEA. This is why all Divines in DAI take the name "Divine Victoria" and why Trespasser essentially undoes one of the biggest divergences in the game. If you want to make "big choices" that carry weight, keep them in the game itself, and forget about carrying the baggage into the next one. But if we have a Keep system, prepare to have all your choices be flavor text in codex entries at best. That or every few games we'll be travelling to new galaxies, locust-like as we flee the destruction caused by 'big choices" Regardless of the Keep system, I doubt for their next Mass effect game after Andromeda they'll go with a clean or canon state. It's obvious there'll be a system that will carry the choices made from one game to another. I mean, there's the chance Ryder will be the MC next game as well. There's no way they'll go for a canon set of choices to be carried in following games.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 20:40:54 GMT
I don't like the keep so hope we don't get one for ME:A. I would prefer something like we got in ME2 and ME3 so you can select the answers in the game. That's not exactly a problem of the keep, it's more due Bioware making it separate from the game.
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Balsam Beige
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Post by Balsam Beige on Nov 30, 2016 20:47:39 GMT
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Post by Cyonan on Nov 30, 2016 20:50:14 GMT
I think in the future if they intend for our choices to carry between games a "Mass Effect Keep" is a really good idea so that we don't have to re-play the old games to jump into the current one if we switch platforms or want to try something different(or find a save game online if you're on PC).
As far as with Andromeda itself, I see less of a reason for it since there's no choices to carry into that game right now with them having wiped the slate clean.
Ideally I'd also like to see the UI option for it in-game even if it's still linked to the online version of it, just to have it there so I don't have to tab between game and browser.
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Post by kumazan on Nov 30, 2016 20:51:08 GMT
Sure. They will be doing more Andromeda games, and a Keep like system is a good way to have choices carry over with a minimal chance of errors (I'm looking at you, DA:A to DA2 imports) and compatible with a change of platform. It could be improved, sure, but for me it's good enough as is.
But I like turtles too so... :/
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Post by javeart on Nov 30, 2016 20:51:36 GMT
I love the keep too, I really don't see a downside in having one for MEA too
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Nov 30, 2016 21:22:23 GMT
I would agree with Iakus in that I think the "Big world-shaking choice" that never amounts to anything is overdone in BioWare and the closest I got to feeling like it mattered was the downplayed Council vs non-council Citadel in ME2. It's all just placeholders and extended scenes with a few more camera angles, sometimes wildly different dialogue but you can always feel how the scenes are just the same as opposed to getting entirely exclusive scenarios or levels based on choices like in Witcher 2 or briefly in DA:I's early sections.
I think they should focus more on making an Alpha Protocol ideally or a KOTOR where the sequels can keep the information about player-character and his world-changing decisions as vague as possible while putting new elements into the spotlight.
On the flipside, importing my character from a previous game or hearing characters recall their history with one-another is sweet and very appealing to me. I just wish we lived in a reality where BioWare could feasibly go all-in about accounting properly for all permutations without also having to design a game for new players. That has proven a couple of times now how it undermines both default continuity and player-made canon, so, yeah, allocate the resources better in the future plz.
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 21:26:45 GMT
I would agree with Iakus in that I think the "Big world-shaking choice" that never amounts to anything is overdone in BioWare and the closest I got to feeling like it mattered was the downplayed Council vs non-council Citadel in ME2. It's all just placeholders and extended scenes with a few more camera angles, sometimes wildly different dialogue but you can always feel how the scenes are just the same as opposed to getting entirely exclusive scenarios or levels based on choices like in Witcher 2 or briefly in DA:I's early sections. I think they should focus more on making an Alpha Protocol ideally or a KOTOR where the sequels can keep the information about player-character and his world-changing decisions as vague as possible while putting new elements into the spotlight. On the flipside, importing my character from a previous game or hearing characters recall their history with one-another is sweet and very appealing to me. I just wish we lived in a reality where BioWare could feasibly go all-in about accounting properly for all permutations without also having to design a game for new players. That has proven a couple of times now how it undermines both default continuity and player-made canon, so, yeah, allocate the resources better in the future plz. Personally, I wasn't debating on which is the better path to follow. I just think it's highly unlikely Bioware decides to scrap the import system, regardless if it's like the trilogy, DA2 or the Keep. Even more so if the protagonist will be the same.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 21:30:39 GMT
Regardless of the Keep system, I doubt for their next Mass effect game after Andromeda they'll go with a clean or canon state. It's obvious there'll be a system that will carry the choices made from one game to another. I mean, there's the chance Ryder will be the MC next game as well. There's no way they'll go for a canon set of choices to be carried in following games. Yeah, we'll just get things like: Save the colony: we meet Bob the new mayor who'll chat with us about how well the place has been doing since you last visited Didn't save the colony: Meet Not-Bob the mayor of the new attempt to colonize the world who will tell you how well the place is doing since you're new here
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 21:33:31 GMT
Regardless of the Keep system, I doubt for their next Mass effect game after Andromeda they'll go with a clean or canon state. It's obvious there'll be a system that will carry the choices made from one game to another. I mean, there's the chance Ryder will be the MC next game as well. There's no way they'll go for a canon set of choices to be carried in following games. Yeah, we'll just get things like: Save the colony: we meet Bob the new mayor who'll chat with us about how well the place has been doing since you last visited Didn't save the colony: Meet Not-Bob the mayor of the new attempt to colonize the world who will tell you how well the place is doing since you're new here Again, I'm not saying it's the best choice. For me, there isn't a best choice. With either system I'll gain and lose something. What I'm saying is that I don't see Bioware changing their approach.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 21:45:39 GMT
Again, I'm not saying it's the best choice. For me, there isn't a best choice. With either system I'll gain and lose something. What I'm saying is that I don't see Bioware changing their approach. I'm hoping that with this "fresh start" they'll re-examine the merits of save transfers and come to realize there's too much baggage involved. Direct sequels work better in action games where you can't really go off the rails of the story. But when you give the player agency, that agency has to be accounted for, and that leads to divergent storylines, which have to be accounted for in any sequels. This is why they can crank out sequel after sequel for Halo (everyone's Master Chief is essentially the same), but why we can't go back to the Milky Way anymore in Mass Effect.[/quote]
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 30, 2016 21:52:01 GMT
Iakus: So because you don't think your choices matter enough, you'd rather have them not matter at all?
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Post by midnightwolf on Nov 30, 2016 21:56:51 GMT
Assuming that they plan to make more games after ME:A....then sure, why not?
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 22:00:20 GMT
Again, I'm not saying it's the best choice. For me, there isn't a best choice. With either system I'll gain and lose something. What I'm saying is that I don't see Bioware changing their approach. I'm hoping that with this "fresh start" they'll re-examine the merits of save transfers and come to realize there's too much baggage involved. Direct sequels work better in action games where you can't really go off the rails of the story. But when you give the player agency, that agency has to be accounted for, and that leads to divergent storylines, which have to be accounted for in any sequels. This is why they can crank out sequel after sequel for Halo (everyone's Master Chief is essentially the same), but why we can't go back to the Milky Way anymore in Mass Effect. Given what they're saying about our choices mattering in regards of not setting a canon for the MW (going to Andromeda is another hint they're not willing to change approach) I doubt they're going to change their minds. Though I guess they have time to decide. I don't think it's something they already decided on. If they go for Ryder as MC again, it'll be sure they'll build another import system. We won't know until the next game will be announced or even later on, most likely.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 22:05:31 GMT
Iakus : So because you don't think your choices matter enough, you'd rather have them not matter at all? I think choices should matter in the game where they are made. If you save a town or let it be destroyed, that should have an impact. But they should not carry over into other games. Expecting to see the long-term effects of your decisions is just asking for disappointment, unless you really, really want to meet Bob/Not-Bob.
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Post by zlojeb on Nov 30, 2016 22:07:07 GMT
I don't think we need the Keep for a single game (MEA, since nothing carries over from ME1-3).
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