Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 22:09:24 GMT
Given what they're saying about our choices mattering in regards of not setting a canon for the MW (going to Andromeda is another hint they're not willing to change approach) I doubt they're going to change their minds. Though I guess they have time to decide. I don't think it's something they already decided on. If they go for Ryder as MC again, it'll be sure they'll build another import system. We won't know until the next game will be announced or even later on, most likely. If they don't have a clear idea right now what they'll be doing with any sequels, that would be another reason to abandon choice imports. Part of what made ME2 and ME3 such a mess was they had no freaking idea where they were going with the story so a lot of choices just went nowhere.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 22:11:04 GMT
Provided they are going to make more ME:A games, this is going to happen. It's so much useful.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 22:16:15 GMT
Given what they're saying about our choices mattering in regards of not setting a canon for the MW (going to Andromeda is another hint they're not willing to change approach) I doubt they're going to change their minds. Though I guess they have time to decide. I don't think it's something they already decided on. If they go for Ryder as MC again, it'll be sure they'll build another import system. We won't know until the next game will be announced or even later on, most likely. If they don't have a clear idea right now what they'll be doing with any sequels, that would be another reason to abandon choice imports. Part of what made ME2 and ME3 such a mess was they had no freaking idea where they were going with the story so a lot of choices just went nowhere. I disagree. ME2 and ME3 were parts of a trilogy, all connected to an overeaching plot, and as such consistent was needed, as well as planning it detailed beforehand. A sequel doesn't have to necessarily follow the same general/main plot. Also, not knowing if they'll use Ryder doesn't mean they don't have a plan or planned plots already for following games.
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Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 22:24:49 GMT
If they don't have a clear idea right now what they'll be doing with any sequels, that would be another reason to abandon choice imports. Part of what made ME2 and ME3 such a mess was they had no freaking idea where they were going with the story so a lot of choices just went nowhere. I disagree. ME2 and ME3 were parts of a trilogy, all connected to an overeaching plot, and as such consistent was needed, as well as planning it detailed beforehand. A sequel doesn't have to necessarily follow the same general/main plot. Also, not knowing if they'll use Ryder doesn't mean they don't have a plan or planned plots already for following games. But they do need to know how a "big choice" will follow through. What happens if you put a particular faction in power? If a colony dies? If you trust one group or another with important information? How will events be remembered if you solve them peacefully or violently? Stuff that can shift the balance of power among the AI and the colonies they establish. Stuff that can shape sequels. All this has to be taken into account in followup stories, whether or not Ryder is the main character.
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The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 22:36:21 GMT
I disagree. ME2 and ME3 were parts of a trilogy, all connected to an overeaching plot, and as such consistent was needed, as well as planning it detailed beforehand. A sequel doesn't have to necessarily follow the same general/main plot. Also, not knowing if they'll use Ryder doesn't mean they don't have a plan or planned plots already for following games. But they do need to know how a "big choice" will follow through. What happens if you put a particular faction in power? If a colony dies? If you trust one group or another with important information? How will events be remembered if you solve them peacefully or violently? Stuff that can shift the balance of power among the AI and the colonies they establish. Stuff that can shape sequels. All this has to be taken into account in followup stories, whether or not Ryder is the main character. Then I'm wrong and they have already taken a decision of what path follow. Hopefully in this case they'll let us know sooner then later.
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kino
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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Post by kino on Nov 30, 2016 23:17:41 GMT
I'm not certain a Keep would be necessary for Andromeda since there's no need for ME3 save files in the new game. Maybe if they change game engines in the future or something, then sure, a Keep type app would be great.
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Post by malanek on Nov 30, 2016 23:40:41 GMT
When it first came out I thought the Dragon Age Keep sounded awesome. Sadly however everything that was different turned out to be purely cosmetic and I really don't understand why people like it. You don't get to see how your actions changed the world, all you get to see is how irrelevant your actions are because they DIDN'T change the world in any meaningful manner.
I think trying to preserve players actions from one game to the next when you don't do anything significant with it actively makes for a worse game. It not only ties up resources trying to cater for every option but it causes the writers to abandon plot points that could have been followed up and explored in future games because they can't cater to all the possible outcomes. In the most recent example the entire Milky Way had to be abandoned because of the ending in ME3.
Biowares adherence to not pick a default world state when making a new game is what I dislike about their games the most. I am looking forward to the story in ME:Andromeda largely because it will give them a lot more freedom but I still think they should change their approach.
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The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on Nov 30, 2016 23:50:09 GMT
When it first came out I thought the Dragon Age Keep sounded awesome. Sadly however everything that was different turned out to be purely cosmetic and I really don't understand why people like it. You don't get to see how your actions changed the world, all you get to see is how irrelevant your actions are because they DIDN'T change the world in any meaningful manner. I think trying to preserve players actions from one game to the next when you don't do anything significant with it actively makes for a worse game. It not only ties up resources trying to cater for every option but it causes the writers to abandon plot points that could have been followed up and explored in future games because they can't cater to all the possible outcomes. In the most recent example the entire Milky Way had to be abandoned because of the ending in ME3. Biowares adherence to not pick a default world state when making a new game is what I dislike about their games the most. I am looking forward to the story in ME:Andromeda largely because it will give them a lot more freedom but I still think they should change their approach. Why did you think the Keep would've been different from the other import systems? It's just a curiosity. I only thought it was a better way to keep the choices made checked and save in case of a change of platform, problems with the saves or similar stuff, not that it'd be relevant to the games and how impactful the choices would be.
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Post by fialka on Dec 1, 2016 0:41:01 GMT
I voted yes, because even if it doesn't have any major impact in the story, it's still nice to get those little call backs to what I did in previous games. Plus, the Keep was pretty fun to do, both to see different outcomes without having to do another hours-long playthrough, and to get a refresher on the things that happened.
As for the case of Andromeda, although most of the decisions we made in ME1-2 (especially 2) aren't going to be public knowledge and therefore relevant to MEA - things like the near destruction of the citadel, the geth resurfacing, humans joining the council, the first human spectre coming back from the dead - would have been big news so it would seem weird if no one mentioned them in MEA ever. And I'd rather have something like the Keep than to have those things worded awkwardly to avoid contradictions or mentioning Shepard's gender or whatever. Or not talked about at all. Yes it's the distant past when we all wake up, but people don't just stop discussing things or having opinions about them because they've been asleep (even if it is for 600 years).
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Post by Duke Cameron on Dec 1, 2016 3:20:25 GMT
Yes. I love the keep.
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saberchic
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Post by saberchic on Dec 1, 2016 3:38:18 GMT
I like the idea of the Keep and think it would be good to have it for Mass Effect. If they decide to do more sequels, or even just other games in the Andromeda system, it might be handy to have. Just having the Keep track the decisions made doesn't mean that they will be super important later; however, if a choice made during MEA would affect a future game, at least it could be imported and reflected properly in the future game--no matter the platform. It's just nice to have the option.
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Post by malanek on Dec 1, 2016 4:00:02 GMT
When it first came out I thought the Dragon Age Keep sounded awesome. Sadly however everything that was different turned out to be purely cosmetic and I really don't understand why people like it. You don't get to see how your actions changed the world, all you get to see is how irrelevant your actions are because they DIDN'T change the world in any meaningful manner. I think trying to preserve players actions from one game to the next when you don't do anything significant with it actively makes for a worse game. It not only ties up resources trying to cater for every option but it causes the writers to abandon plot points that could have been followed up and explored in future games because they can't cater to all the possible outcomes. In the most recent example the entire Milky Way had to be abandoned because of the ending in ME3. Biowares adherence to not pick a default world state when making a new game is what I dislike about their games the most. I am looking forward to the story in ME:Andromeda largely because it will give them a lot more freedom but I still think they should change their approach. Why did you think the Keep would've been different from the other import systems? It's just a curiosity. I only thought it was a better way to keep the choices made checked and save in case of a change of platform, problems with the saves or similar stuff, not that it'd be relevant to the games and how impactful the choices would be. Good point. Sorry I was thinking more of when they said Dragon Age would keep a world state of the players actions and import from game to game, which was prior to the keep even though it is the same concept, just the method of importing. Regardless of that, I would prefer they didn't have a keep or any other system that did the same thing.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 1, 2016 6:33:20 GMT
Yes and no.
I wouldn't mind being able to archive my choices for future Mass Effect games like how you were uploading your Dragon Age: Inquisition choices to The Keep, but I wouldn't want it for including information from the first three games. The infrastructure is already there since they have done the same thing with Inquisition. I just hope BioWare takes a different approach to major choices and maybe even have them nullified at the end of the game like other games and they are just another path to the final destination.
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jediguardian
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I want to be gay in game. Romance is just option, Just let me be gay & stop force romance.
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Post by jediguardian on Dec 1, 2016 7:07:59 GMT
If this Keep have offline mode, I am OK.
But DA keep not have impact much to DAI (in my opinion). Not like Mass Effect import save.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 1, 2016 7:40:17 GMT
Not really feel a need for it right now. Maybe in the future but not now.
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Post by kumazan on Dec 1, 2016 9:41:51 GMT
Iakus : So because you don't think your choices matter enough, you'd rather have them not matter at all? I think choices should matter in the game where they are made. If you save a town or let it be destroyed, that should have an impact. But they should not carry over into other games. Expecting to see the long-term effects of your decisions is just asking for disappointment, unless you really, really want to meet Bob/Not-Bob. I don't get why we couldn't have both? You can have decisions whose impact is felt, mostly, on the game they're made, and others which carry over to following games. It helps both the feeling of your decisions having an actual effect and the world/setting continuity and liveliness.
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nedstarkshead
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I have two hands and a butt
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Post by nedstarkshead on Dec 1, 2016 13:49:51 GMT
Something that could accessed offline/online (perhaps in-game?) yeah, I wouldn't mind. But I don't think we need it right now.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 1, 2016 13:56:00 GMT
Don't be ridiculous! Keep? It would, of course, be "Citadel".
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nedstarkshead
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Post by nedstarkshead on Dec 1, 2016 14:00:19 GMT
Don't be ridiculous! Keep? It would, of course, be "Citadel". or 'Ark'?
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Post by themikefest on Dec 1, 2016 14:02:17 GMT
Would a keep have been better than using a save import for the trilogy?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 1, 2016 14:35:12 GMT
I think choices should matter in the game where they are made. If you save a town or let it be destroyed, that should have an impact. But they should not carry over into other games. Expecting to see the long-term effects of your decisions is just asking for disappointment, unless you really, really want to meet Bob/Not-Bob. I don't get why we couldn't have both? You can have decisions whose impact is felt, mostly, on the game they're made, and others which carry over to following games. It helps both the feeling of your decisions having an actual effect and the world/setting continuity and liveliness. The problem is the logistical nightmare of having to implement major choices such as the destruction of the town, for they would have to create two towns to cover what the one would have and if there is anything important there they would have to re-create it twice. Look at the returning companions quality was in Mass Effect 3, to me they felt they had very little weight to the story because they had to write in an alternate character to replace them if they had died prior to Mass Effect 3. Even the Rachni in Mass Effect 3 as well, look at all the upset people because the status of the queen changed so it acknowledged what the player did, but it wasn't done with enough change to the game to please people.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 1, 2016 14:39:00 GMT
Would a keep have been better than using a save import for the trilogy? I think it would have been. They had import issues such as Conrad Vernor in Mass Effect 2 where it always thought you took the renegade approach to him in the first game and there probably were others as well. Whenever I have heard BioWare employees talk about importing it always seems to be a gamble if it works properly because parsing the save file can be complicated. As far as a player perspective, it would have been nice to change a decision from a prior game without having to replay the entire trilogy for I would have liked to have saved Mordin once without going all the way back and replaying Mass Effect 1 and 2 so I met the criteria of that.
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Post by kumazan on Dec 1, 2016 15:13:13 GMT
I don't get why we couldn't have both? You can have decisions whose impact is felt, mostly, on the game they're made, and others which carry over to following games. It helps both the feeling of your decisions having an actual effect and the world/setting continuity and liveliness. The problem is the logistical nightmare of having to implement major choices such as the destruction of the town, for they would have to create two towns to cover what the one would have and if there is anything important there they would have to re-create it twice. Look at the returning companions quality was in Mass Effect 3, to me they felt they had very little weight to the story because they had to write in an alternate character to replace them if they had died prior to Mass Effect 3. Even the Rachni in Mass Effect 3 as well, look at all the upset people because the status of the queen changed so it acknowledged what the player did, but it wasn't done with enough change to the game to please people. I don't get why the destruction of a town is a logistical nightmare for a sequel and not for a game itself. If you can create the consequences of a destroyed/not destroyed town in a game, surely they can carry over to a sequel? Of course, you can't do so for a dozen towns, but that would be you writing yourself into a corner (again!), not a consequence of letting choices carry over. The real problem comes from world/galaxy wide consequences for one's actions, and that's why it baffles me that, giving how they apparently value so much the whole "choices carry over" dynamic, they keep going for big epics instead of smaller stakes stories.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 1, 2016 16:05:24 GMT
They had import issues such as Conrad Vernor in Mass Effect 2 where it always thought you took the renegade approach to him in the first game and there probably were others as well. One that bugged me is that Garrus doesn't have to be recruited in ME1, but somehow he and Kirrahe, if alive, know each other when they meet on Sur'kesh.
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scifiguy53425
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The Prince of Darkness
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Post by scifiguy53425 on Dec 1, 2016 16:26:37 GMT
I can't be assed to do that s***
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