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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 17:07:10 GMT
It's like I said they want to remake Star Wars in their own image. After thirty years things are right back where they started with an all powerful Totally Not Empire with their Totally Not Emperor fighting a plucky band of resistance fighters who are Totally Not the Rebellion. Like nothing's changed. Except the original cast are (except for Leia) all bitter old men who have failed at life and are just waiting to die. So now Disney can trot out the REAL heroes of the galaxy once the previous generation has been torn down and discarded.They're trying to do a Dark and Edgy Reboot without doing a reboot. It IS suspiciously similar to what's happening with various comics franchises. Hmmmmmmm. And what's the commön thread?
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 22, 2018 17:42:03 GMT
It IS suspiciously similar to what's happening with various comics franchises. Hmmmmmmm. And what's the commön thread? I'd say idiocy
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Apr 22, 2018 18:03:22 GMT
TLJ does not really have a 47% audience score. That score does not include reviews scoring lower than 20%. Those are just discarded. Now that may seem somewhat rational, considering how much a campaign may affect a score, and assuming that bottom scores aren't really "serious" judgement anyhow. However, in this case it means that nobody who really hates what TLJ did, is ever making his/hers voice heard in the Rotten Tomatoes audience score. Their opinion is explicitly excluded. Now, combine this with the fact that most TLJ reviewer scores are lower than 20%. And also consider what disproportionate effect those 100% scores now will have on the aggregate. To summarize, TLJ is in much worse shape than what is generally pretended. Other clues are any online discussion, YouTube etc. Most damning is perhaps Toys and merchandize sales. This once lucrative business has fallen through the bottom, ruining both Toys R Us and Hasbro. Now Toys R Us was in bad shape, but it certainly didn't help when they used their last funds to stock up with unsellable TLJ merchandize, expecting the usual Star Wars rush. Wait a minute, you think the reason Toys R Us is going out of business is because of Star Wars? Please. There are so many options these days for kids these days. Honestly, who here actually buys toys in this thread? God it's one damn movie people. How many does the MCU have? It's not all doom and gloom. It's just because you don't like a movie. Quoting myself: " Toys R Us was in bad shape, but it certainly didn't help when they used their last funds to stock up with unsellable TLJ merchandize" So no, it was just the last mistake. My point was that the total crash of SW merchandize, coinciding with TLJ, is yet another indicator of how the audience have really received this movie. It's not a "vocal minority".
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Apr 22, 2018 19:16:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 19:48:38 GMT
Hmmmmmmm. And what's the commön thread? I'd say idiocy That and pölitical ideolögy.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 22, 2018 20:00:34 GMT
Let's face facts guys. Regardless of Toy sales, ep. 7 was received much better overall than ep. 8. When the Force Awakens was released, it had detractors. Of course there were people who were sour on the clear copy-paste the script used from ep. 4. However, that film actually followed BASIC SCREENWRITING guidelines. It made sense from scene to scene and had very little "smart-ass real-world political trash" inserted. It was profitable & re-vitalized the series in a fairly clever way, leaving several open-ended character arcs set up for the sequel. Then something went very wrong. Ep. 8 could/should have topped the profit of 7 by a bit. If the Chewbacca movie is not a big hit, K. Kennedy & friends might actually begin their "damage control protocol" Then perhaps they will get it through their thick skulls that most fans DO NOT WANT Twilight/Ghostbusters 3 in space FFS...
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Post by Larry-3 on Apr 22, 2018 21:44:47 GMT
I love the Prequels. One of them I love more than the entire Original Trilogy. The Sequel Trilogy is a bit hard to swallow... I am not going to give up on it, but it will be awhile.
Anyway, am I the only one who see's the Battle of Hoth as one big World War I battle?
"General, there is a legion of troops moving up in sector 4." "Prepare for an assault."
The German troops ready their weapons and man turrets.
"Their primary target will be our fuel depot." "Stand by artillery... Fire."
Shells race through the sky and explosions can be heard in the distance.
Meanwhile pilots are back at a runway running to their biplanes. "Feeling alright, sir?" "I feel like new, how about you?" "... Right now I feel like I could take on the whole British Empire myself." "I know what you mean."
Back in the trenches, a soldier uses he binoculars.
"HQ, this is forward trench 38, we have spotted Mark IV tanks." "British Imperial tanks on the North ridge."
All the biplanes start taking flight. Tanks open fire at the German trenches, while all the soldiers return fire. Biplanes fly over the trenches and towards the enemy advance.
A biplane gunner says "we got a problem, my gun is jammed!" The biplanes fly around the battlefield and make strafing runs on the enemy tanks. Soldiers continue to fire and the advancing enemy while explosions cover the trenches all around them.
"That armor is too strong for our cannons! Gunner, use your grenades, aim for the tank tracks, it might be our only chance at stopping them."
Soldiers in the trench continue firing, passing ammo out, and manning turrets. While biplanes continue flying around. "Ahh!" One of the biplane gunners dies from a bullet."
Back in the trench, a soldier rolls a 30 mm turret, loads it, and fires. Only to be met with disappointment as it does nothing to the advancing tank. While one of the biplanes is flying down on fire.
One of the Mark IV takes fire and one of the turrets cause it to explode and the soldier to scream. A biplane points down to a tank, then both circle around. Flies back towards it and drops a grenade on its track. Its track explodes and it rolls into a crater and is stuck in the mud. A soldier noticed it and says "come on!" While biplanes fly towards it. They drop more grenades on it and it explodes. "That got him!" "I see it, good work."
Back at HQ, the general says "I don't think we can protect two trenches at once." His officer responds, "it's risky but we've got to try." Explosions rock their base before the general says "launch our reserve fighter squadron."
Back at the runway, some pilots are working on a bomber. "No, no, this one goes here, that one goes there, right?!" In the forward trenches, the Germans are trying to hold. Throwing everything they have at the enemy, firing their machine guns and artillery. Another one of their turrets explodes.
One of the Mark IV tanks heads towards the depot. A biplane goes after it but is shot and crashes in front of the enemy tanks. He looks up at see's it about to crush him, but he grabs a grenade and jumps out of the burning remains before being squished.
Back at HQ, soldiers are running around. One of them shout out, "British Imperial troops are entering the base!" The officers look at each other, and one of the last remaining pilots says, "come on, that's it!" The officer looks at the pilot while thinking, "... ... Give the evacuation signal!"
Back in the trenches, the soldiers start yelling, "begin retreat! Fall back!" While they are start exiting the trenches. Mark IV tanks start shooting them in the back as they run away.
One shot down pilot jumps on top of an enemy tanks, opens the top hatch, throw's a grenade in, then jumps off. The tanks explodes and pieces go flying everywhere.
Another enemy tanks aims his cannon at the fuel and ammo depot and opens fire that causes a hugh explosion. Back at HQ, a British general and some shock troopers march into the room and look around.
At the runway, the last of the German pilots still in the area climb into a biplane bomber. One takes the pilot seat, the other takes the rear gunner seat. "Let's hope we don't have a burnout." The gunner says, "would it helped if I got out and pushed?" The says, "it might!" The rear gunner opens fire on the approaching enemy soldiers, while the biplane takes off.
Well, I am pretty much burned from all this typing, ha.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 22, 2018 21:49:34 GMT
I'm not comfortable throwing about generalisations about what 'most fans' want.
The fandom is extremely diverse and far to often what people mean when they talk about fans is 'people who view the source material the way I do'. For every person who hates the new films I have seen people who love them. I know fans who love the OT passionately, people who think the old EU should be full on canon, I know people who think Reylo is the best thing ever, hell I even know someone who thinks Jar Jar Binks is hilarious for christ sake and thats just in my close circle of real life friends.
I know people will point to places like places like Rotten Tomatoes and its low score as proof 'most fans' hate them, but given how easy it is to game the TR system (you can repeat vote and there are no checks for if the voter has actually seen the film) and the self outing of people claiming to be tanking the film, I don't think we can take the RT score with any kind of confidence. Not to say that that some of the bad scores aren't genuine, they obviously are, just that it is a very unscientific and open to tampering.
I would also point to CinemaScore and its statistically accumulated audience exit poll score of 'A'. Again not to say 'everyone loved it , haters are a minority suck it' but to point out how diverse opinions and by extension fans themselves are.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 22, 2018 23:08:00 GMT
I'm not comfortable throwing about generalisations about what ' most fans' want. The fandom is extremely diverse and far to often what people mean when they talk about fans is 'people who view the source material the way I do'. For every person who hates the new films I have seen people who love them. I know fans who love the OT passionately, people who think the old EU should be full on canon, I know people who think Reylo is the best thing ever, hell I even know someone who thinks Jar Jar Binks is hilarious for christ sake and thats just in my close circle of real life friends. I know people will point to places like places like Rotten Tomatoes and its low score as proof 'most fans' hate them, but given how easy it is to game the TR system (you can repeat vote and there are no checks for if the voter has actually seen the film) and the self outing of people claiming to be tanking the film, I don't think we can take the RT score with any kind of confidence. Not to say that that some of the bad scores aren't genuine, they obviously are, just that it is a very unscientific and open to tampering. I would also point to CinemaScore and its statistically accumulated audience exit poll score of 'A'. Again not to say 'everyone loved it , haters are a minority suck it' but to point out how diverse opinions and by extension fans themselves are. Try learning 4th grade grammar if you want to be taken seriously
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 23:32:56 GMT
I'm not comfortable throwing about generalisations about what ' most fans' want. The fandom is extremely diverse and far to often what people mean when they talk about fans is 'people who view the source material the way I do'. For every person who hates the new films I have seen people who love them. I know fans who love the OT passionately, people who think the old EU should be full on canon, I know people who think Reylo is the best thing ever, hell I even know someone who thinks Jar Jar Binks is hilarious for christ sake and thats just in my close circle of real life friends. I know people will point to places like places like Rotten Tomatoes and its low score as proof 'most fans' hate them, but given how easy it is to game the TR system (you can repeat vote and there are no checks for if the voter has actually seen the film) and the self outing of people claiming to be tanking the film, I don't think we can take the RT score with any kind of confidence. Not to say that that some of the bad scores aren't genuine, they obviously are, just that it is a very unscientific and open to tampering. I would also point to CinemaScore and its statistically accumulated audience exit poll score of 'A'. Again not to say 'everyone loved it , haters are a minority suck it' but to point out how diverse opinions and by extension fans themselves are. Cinemescöre is shit.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 22, 2018 23:55:39 GMT
Sorry I'm not watching a 20min video in the middle of a work day.... explain to me why it is shit or more importantly explain to me how Cinemascore being shit invalidates the actual point of my original post which was that the Star Wars fandom is extremely diverse and its opinions on the OT, Prequels and new films are equally as diverse.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 22, 2018 23:58:33 GMT
I'm not comfortable throwing about generalisations about what ' most fans' want. The fandom is extremely diverse and far to often what people mean when they talk about fans is 'people who view the source material the way I do'. For every person who hates the new films I have seen people who love them. I know fans who love the OT passionately, people who think the old EU should be full on canon, I know people who think Reylo is the best thing ever, hell I even know someone who thinks Jar Jar Binks is hilarious for christ sake and thats just in my close circle of real life friends. I know people will point to places like places like Rotten Tomatoes and its low score as proof 'most fans' hate them, but given how easy it is to game the TR system (you can repeat vote and there are no checks for if the voter has actually seen the film) and the self outing of people claiming to be tanking the film, I don't think we can take the RT score with any kind of confidence. Not to say that that some of the bad scores aren't genuine, they obviously are, just that it is a very unscientific and open to tampering. I would also point to CinemaScore and its statistically accumulated audience exit poll score of 'A'. Again not to say 'everyone loved it , haters are a minority suck it' but to point out how diverse opinions and by extension fans themselves are. Try learning 4th grade grammar if you want to be taken seriously Do you want your grammar badge again? You forgot to put a period at the end of your sentence.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 23, 2018 0:20:11 GMT
It IS suspiciously similar to what's happening with various comics franchises. Hmmmmmmm. And what's the commön thread? That things change?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 0:24:49 GMT
Sorry I'm not watching a 20min video in the middle of a work day.... explain to me why it is shit or more importantly explain to me how Cinemascore being shit invalidates the actual point of my original post which was that the Star Wars fandom is extremely diverse and its opinions on the OT, Prequels and new films are equally as diverse. He pöints öut that Cinemascöre döes nöt shöw höw they get their data. That there isnt really anything ön their website öther than the name öf the mövie the year it came öut and the scöre. He then shöws that önly majör cities is were all öf cinemascöre gets their audience feedback. Sö it is nöt an unbiased opiniön aböut höw audiences felt. And I never said that it invalidates yöur pöint. All I said was cinemascöre is shit. Hmmmmmmm. And what's the commön thread? That things change? Pöliticaly mötivated change.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 23, 2018 0:30:21 GMT
[snip] Try learning 4th grade grammar if you want to be taken seriously Do you want your grammar badge again? You forgot to put a period at the end of your sentence. All I want is for "adults" to use grown-up English. If I want retarded middle-school text-speak I'll text my little sister. It isn't that difficult, many people on these boards are able to handle it
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 23, 2018 1:03:42 GMT
Sorry I'm not watching a 20min video in the middle of a work day.... explain to me why it is shit or more importantly explain to me how Cinemascore being shit invalidates the actual point of my original post which was that the Star Wars fandom is extremely diverse and its opinions on the OT, Prequels and new films are equally as diverse. He pöints öut that Cinemascöre döes nöt shöw höw they get their data. That there isnt really anything ön their website öther than the name öf the mövie the year it came öut and the scöre. He then shöws that önly majör cities is were all öf cinemascöre gets their audience feedback. Sö it is nöt an unbiased opiniön aböut höw audiences felt. And I never said that it invalidates yöur pöint. All I said was cinemascöre is shit. Fair enough... I have read a bit about the process and I will agree that demographic is definitely biased to a more urban setting and that could skew results if you are looking for data on why people enjoyed the movie vs that they actually did, which in the end is the only thing Cinemascore is saying.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 23, 2018 1:08:01 GMT
I mentioned RT before, and it wasn't as a way to make a statement about "most fans" or "true fans" or anything (though my personal feeling is that with TLJ you have probably at least 50% of the fans who are dissatisfied with it), the point was the obvious disparity in tastes between critics and fans, which is hardly a new phenomenon. My theory is that critics, who are exposed to many more and worse movies than the average film goer, were pleased to see a movie that tried to buck expectations and be different, which they don’t get to see often. And TLJ did do that, to the point of self indulgence.
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Post by Nayawk on Apr 23, 2018 1:35:05 GMT
As for whether RT is "fake news", I'd say that just like you have people who might vote repeatedly against TLJ, there's more than likely people who do the same for positive reviews. And considering that reviews with a score of under 20% are disregarded by the system, I'd say 47% is probably fairly charitable. I agree that RT is likely to have fake up votes as well as fake down votes, which is why I think we have to mostly disregard it as a source of any true information. It is a fun site that has its uses, but given that the internet is frankly 'the internet', I don't see how it can be an accurate representation of anything.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 23, 2018 2:23:46 GMT
... the point was the obvious disparity in tastes between critics and fans, which is hardly a new phenomenon. My theory is that critics, who are exposed to many more and worse movies than the average film goer, were pleased to see a movie that tried to buck expectations and be different, which they don’t get to see often. And TLJ did do that, to the point of self indulgence.
I'd say it went FAR beyond self-indulgence. I am honestly glad we had to experience ep. 8. In retrospect, it will be good for the fansbase. We thought we knew what the bottom of the barrel was back when the prequels were released. Oh man, were we young & naieve
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Post by HK90210 on Apr 23, 2018 2:46:55 GMT
My theory is that critics, who are exposed to many more and worse movies than the average film goer, were pleased to see a movie that tried to buck expectations and be different, which they don’t get to see often. And TLJ did do that, to the point of self indulgence.
I'd say it went FAR beyond self-indulgence. I am honestly glad we had to experience ep. 8. In retrospect, it will be good for the fansbase. We thought we knew what the bottom of the barrel was back when the prequels were released. Oh man, were we young & naieve
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 4:33:53 GMT
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 23, 2018 17:15:33 GMT
Do you want your grammar badge again? You forgot to put a period at the end of your sentence. All I want is for "adults" to use grown-up English. If I want retarded middle-school text-speak I'll text my little sister. It isn't that difficult, many people on these boards are able to handle it Budgee is the guy whomst'd have reason
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 23, 2018 18:31:27 GMT
All I want is for "adults" to use grown-up English. If I want retarded middle-school text-speak I'll text my little sister. It isn't that difficult, many people on these boards are able to handle it Budgee is the guy whomst'd have reason If only I were more reasonable... I am still too often a victim of my hubris/impulsive nature
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 23, 2018 19:28:30 GMT
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 23, 2018 19:55:23 GMT
Budgee is the guy whomst'd have reason If only I were more reasonable... I am still too often a victim of my hubris/impulsive nature I like you! That must mean something
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