inherit
3439
0
Sept 16, 2024 15:46:24 GMT
9,324
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,875
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Apr 21, 2018 22:16:14 GMT
The time for rational discussion of TLJ was weeks ago. All that's left is the posturing. Ironic. Yep, and deliberately so. (I don't actually hold that position WRT the entire thread.)
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Apr 21, 2018 22:25:43 GMT
Not destroy. Remake. In their own image. Problem is, they didn't have the common decency to at least reboot the franchise first. I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. This is nothing compared to what prequel fans through for about 20 years.
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,397
Andrew Waples
4,114
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 21, 2018 22:28:30 GMT
I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. This is nothing compared to what prequel fans through for about 20 years. And now I've been in both camps. I recognize that both have problems, but not enough that makes me want to hate 'em. Do note: I'm referring to the people that claim TLJ ruined their childhoods.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,323
colfoley
18,471
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Apr 21, 2018 22:41:51 GMT
I don't need you to agree with me, and indeed based on what you wrote before we disagree on quite a bit, that said, since you actually bothered replying, it would be helpful to actually reply with words. I'll grant you that my generalization in regards to "official" critics might be a bit hyperbolic, but I'm fairly confident that at least it's based on reality. And in any case the gap between audience scores and critic scores has bee a bit of a theme for awhile, many movies and video-games were hated by critics and loved by the audience, and vice-versa. At the very least, this points to a very basic disconnect between "official" critics and the actual audience. Tis what I was commenting on. And sorry for the shortness there. Anyways though people have their own opinions. Official critic opinions are every bit as meaningful as fan opinions, and every bit as meaningless to. There is no inherent value they are just...people. Also I do take some umbrage at the implication that only 'latte swilling ivy league progressives' could like this movie. Considering I am not any of those things and I really liked this movie. And also making such an insinuation is one of the most 'ivy league progressive' thing one can possibly do. Collectivism, hyperbole, fun.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Apr 21, 2018 23:57:17 GMT
LoL You must be joking. Even some of the other ep. 8 defenders have relented a bit. Why defend this turd so vehemently ??? It's not like you know Ruin Johnson or KK personally for Christ's Also, I never said I HATED this flick. It was simply the most soul-crushing, heart-breaking disappointment of my theater-going adult life. So not quite justifying the word "Hate"... but almost From my point of view, your comments never came across that you even remotely like this movie. I don't like it, I STRONGLY dislike it. It caused me to go home & re-think my life. I have said as much before. However, it does have a few moments that were kind of cool IMHO. The Luke projection & Leia using the Force stuff was cool. Most of the Ben/Kylo stuff was cool, if set within a retarded context. The idea of Poe instigating a Mutiny was also a cool idea, but handled in a mind-numbing way. I also liked the Kamikaze-hyper-space idea, but again, used stupidly. I thought about 25% of the script had cool ideas, but they were surrounded by trash & used in very poor ways, so... Here's hoping the Chewbacca movie gets things back on track
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Apr 22, 2018 1:48:08 GMT
I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. This is nothing compared to what prequel fans through for about 20 years. They probably had an easier time because the memes were funnier, and stood pretty well against the test of time.
|
|
MegaIllusiveMan
N3
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MegaIllusiveMan
PSN: MegaIllusiveMan
Posts: 807 Likes: 2,171
inherit
2919
0
Jun 22, 2023 16:44:00 GMT
2,171
MegaIllusiveMan
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
807
Jan 20, 2017 21:51:15 GMT
January 2017
megaillusiveman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
MegaIllusiveMan
MegaIllusiveMan
|
Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2018 2:58:49 GMT
Again using third party media tö explain the mövie means it is bad störytelling. Explaining it twice is also bad storytelling. There are times that stories just don't work in certain mediums. Those that have already read that material would say "I've already read that! I don't need to see it again!" They wouldn't need to explain it twice if it was properly placed on the movie. I mean, using a dialogue that was suggested for Leia isn't even explaining it twice, but referencing something that fans would be "oh, cool. If I want more Info, I can grab a book, but I can understand it on its own". An example of that? Han Solo talking with Leia why he had to leave Hoth in Ep V. "That Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell made me change my mind." See, I didn't want to jump into this conversation (TBH, I've been a bit far from SW discussions here and dunno how to stay on the track after all this time), but I do agree that novels must be sold to expand on movies or additional non-essential information. My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Apr 22, 2018 3:54:56 GMT
Explaining it twice is also bad storytelling. There are times that stories just don't work in certain mediums. Those that have already read that material would say "I've already read that! I don't need to see it again!" ... My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself.Mega you make some very valid points
|
|
inherit
802
0
5,544
B. Hieronymus Da
Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
3,753
August 2016
bevesthda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Apr 22, 2018 7:39:29 GMT
I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. Perhaps, though I'd say that the hate is directly proportional to the love, meaning that SW had a giant crowd of loyal fans for decades, and among those fans there's a lot of people who see the Disney Wars not as a failure (which is something that's much easier to forgive), but as a direct insult. It's not a coincidence that critic score on RT for TLJ is 91% and audience score is 47%, as those tend to come from two entirely different crowds. The first usually comes from typical soy-latte sipping progressives that like their art/entertainment with a lot of validation for their politics, and the second comes from the average Joe. TLJ does not really have a 47% audience score. That score does not include reviews scoring lower than 20%. Those are just discarded. Now that may seem somewhat rational, considering how much a campaign may affect a score, and assuming that bottom scores aren't really "serious" judgement anyhow. However, in this case it means that nobody who really hates what TLJ did, is ever making his/hers voice heard in the Rotten Tomatoes audience score. Their opinion is explicitly excluded. Now, combine this with the fact that most TLJ reviewer scores are lower than 20%. And also consider what disproportionate effect those 100% scores now will have on the aggregate. To summarize, TLJ is in much worse shape than what is generally pretended. Other clues are any online discussion, YouTube etc. Most damning is perhaps Toys and merchandize sales. This once lucrative business has fallen through the bottom, ruining both Toys R Us and Hasbro. Now Toys R Us was in bad shape, but it certainly didn't help when they used their last funds to stock up with unsellable TLJ merchandize, expecting the usual Star Wars rush.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,515
Hier0phant
3,859
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Apr 22, 2018 8:08:32 GMT
I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. This is nothing compared to what prequel fans through for about 20 years. I apologize for my jabs at the PT but it was mostly in good spirits, and my condolences to Jake Lloyd's career too, but TLJ deserves all the flack it gets and i will not make any future apologies.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,515
Hier0phant
3,859
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Apr 22, 2018 8:16:09 GMT
To summarize, TLJ is in much worse shape than what is generally pretended. Other clues are any online discussion, YouTube etc. Most damning is perhaps Toys and merchandize sales. This once lucrative business has fallen through the bottom, ruining both Toys R Us and Hasbro. Now Toys R Us was in bad shape, but it certainly didn't help when they used their last funds to stock up with unsellable TLJ merchandize, expecting the usual Star Wars rush. Rose Tico sticking it to the man, crashing Toys R Us with no survivors.
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,397
Andrew Waples
4,114
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 22, 2018 10:51:00 GMT
Perhaps, though I'd say that the hate is directly proportional to the love, meaning that SW had a giant crowd of loyal fans for decades, and among those fans there's a lot of people who see the Disney Wars not as a failure (which is something that's much easier to forgive), but as a direct insult. It's not a coincidence that critic score on RT for TLJ is 91% and audience score is 47%, as those tend to come from two entirely different crowds. The first usually comes from typical soy-latte sipping progressives that like their art/entertainment with a lot of validation for their politics, and the second comes from the average Joe. TLJ does not really have a 47% audience score. That score does not include reviews scoring lower than 20%. Those are just discarded. Now that may seem somewhat rational, considering how much a campaign may affect a score, and assuming that bottom scores aren't really "serious" judgement anyhow. However, in this case it means that nobody who really hates what TLJ did, is ever making his/hers voice heard in the Rotten Tomatoes audience score. Their opinion is explicitly excluded. Now, combine this with the fact that most TLJ reviewer scores are lower than 20%. And also consider what disproportionate effect those 100% scores now will have on the aggregate. To summarize, TLJ is in much worse shape than what is generally pretended. Other clues are any online discussion, YouTube etc. Most damning is perhaps Toys and merchandize sales. This once lucrative business has fallen through the bottom, ruining both Toys R Us and Hasbro. Now Toys R Us was in bad shape, but it certainly didn't help when they used their last funds to stock up with unsellable TLJ merchandize, expecting the usual Star Wars rush. Wait a minute, you think the reason Toys R Us is going out of business is because of Star Wars? Please. There are so many options these days for kids these days. Honestly, who here actually buys toys in this thread? God it's one damn movie people. How many does the MCU have? It's not all doom and gloom. It's just because you don't like a movie.
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,397
Andrew Waples
4,114
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 22, 2018 11:14:17 GMT
Explaining it twice is also bad storytelling. There are times that stories just don't work in certain mediums. Those that have already read that material would say "I've already read that! I don't need to see it again!" They wouldn't need to explain it twice if it was properly placed on the movie. I mean, using a dialogue that was suggested for Leia isn't even explaining it twice, but referencing something that fans would be "oh, cool. If I want more Info, I can grab a book, but I can understand it on its own". An example of that? Han Solo talking with Leia why he had to leave Hoth in Ep V. "That Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell made me change my mind." See, I didn't want to jump into this conversation (TBH, I've been a bit far from SW discussions here and dunno how to stay on the track after all this time), but I do agree that novels must be sold to expand on movies or additional non-essential information. My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself. "Let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy." What? That was sorta the point of Canto Bight. It shows the rich are both supporting the First Order and the Resistance. I may not like Canto Bight either, but they do tell the galaxies story. Empire just focused on Han, Luke and Leia. At least 8 explained how a Resistance "got away." After Hoth, they somehow got away without the Empire following them? The Rebellion even seemed to get stronger by the end of Empire. As I explained before, it's in the book Bloodline. The rise of Resistence, there is some hints of First Order and how they stared. You don't even have to buy the book. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10087
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 12:50:45 GMT
These peöple whö are making these mövies are leftist. They pröbably loök at the öriginal mövies with scörn because they werent "inclusive" enöugh. This is just höw I think it is. Especially if yöu actually hear them talk. Kathleen Kennedy saying they dönt need male fans. All the shit the writer för Rögue öne said. It is the önly explanatiön that makes sense tö me with the directiön these mövies have göne. The thing is when yöu dönt föcus ön peöple's skin colör ör whether ör nöt they have a penis, unlike leftist whö cant, the öriginal trilögy was a cultural phenomenön. And nöt just för America. It resinated with sö many peöple acröss sö many cultures because it was the classic tale öf goöd vs evil. The herö's jöurney. The classic mentor and student story like Frodö and Gandölf or King Aurther and Murlin. But it was töld in a new get setting. With coöl pöwers and technolögy. Really...dude? Where the hell did you get the idea that KK said "we don't need Male fans"? Also, the fact that all their writers and directors are Male and white goes against that statement. There was one main Female lead being Jyn Esro. The rest were all Male yes there were other female roles, but not compared to the screen time that Jyn got. Kathleen the force is female KennedyRogue one writers.First öff Andrew when replying tö yöu shöuld I just pöst twice? Because I always have tö explain everything tö yöu. And yöur defense för them nöt being leftist is that they are white? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut? Dö yöu actually live ön this planet? And if yes then what röck dö yöu live under?
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,397
Andrew Waples
4,114
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 22, 2018 13:13:44 GMT
Really...dude? Where the hell did you get the idea that KK said "we don't need Male fans"? Also, the fact that all their writers and directors are Male and white goes against that statement. There was one main Female lead being Jyn Esro. The rest were all Male yes there were other female roles, but not compared to the screen time that Jyn got. Kathleen the force is female KennedyRogue one writers.First öff Andrew when replying tö yöu shöuld I just pöst twice? Because I always have tö explain everything tö yöu. And yöur defense för them nöt being leftist is that they are white? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut? Dö yöu actually live ön this planet? And if yes then what röck dö yöu live under? I'm not talking about political ideologies (this is the wrong thread for it anyway) I'm merely talking about gender here. The Force is Female t-shirt is meant to inspire young girls, not implying that the Force is indeed female. If KK genuinely believes that then she clearly has never seen Star Wars before. Also, the fact that broomboy uses the Force at the end is proof of that as well as Kylo and Snoke.
|
|
MegaIllusiveMan
N3
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MegaIllusiveMan
PSN: MegaIllusiveMan
Posts: 807 Likes: 2,171
inherit
2919
0
Jun 22, 2023 16:44:00 GMT
2,171
MegaIllusiveMan
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
807
Jan 20, 2017 21:51:15 GMT
January 2017
megaillusiveman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
MegaIllusiveMan
MegaIllusiveMan
|
Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2018 13:44:32 GMT
... My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself.Mega you make some very valid points Heya Budgee! Good to see you too . They wouldn't need to explain it twice if it was properly placed on the movie. I mean, using a dialogue that was suggested for Leia isn't even explaining it twice, but referencing something that fans would be "oh, cool. If I want more Info, I can grab a book, but I can understand it on its own". An example of that? Han Solo talking with Leia why he had to leave Hoth in Ep V. "That Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell made me change my mind." See, I didn't want to jump into this conversation (TBH, I've been a bit far from SW discussions here and dunno how to stay on the track after all this time), but I do agree that novels must be sold to expand on movies or additional non-essential information. My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself. "Let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy." What? That was sorta the point of Canto Bight. It shows the rich are both supporting the First Order and the Resistance. I may not like Canto Bight either, but they do tell the galaxies story. Empire just focused on Han, Luke and Leia. At least 8 explained how a Resistance "got away." After Hoth, they somehow got away without the Empire following them? The Rebellion even seemed to get stronger by the end of Empire. As I explained before, it's in the book Bloodline. The rise of Resistence, there is some hints of First Order and how they stared. You don't even have to buy the book. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)You're just being redundant (It's in the book) at this point, I'm sorry. See, I did say I didn't want anything to do with the book or looking up the facts at some wikia or so, when I just could watch the movie thta explains these thing. The thing I said about telling the galaxy's stories wasn't refering to Canto Bight (Let me get to that later) Telling the galaxies stories is much more than just saying "oh, look. Rich people sell evil things to both sides", but explaining the whole background of things, like, for example, the Prequels did. The Rise of the Empire, how there were many Jedi and then they suddenly went almost extinct, the whole Palpatine and Clone Army plot that was EXPANDED (see, expanded) in The Clone Wars TV Show. This is explaining galaxy's story. How it began, how it ended, why and who was involved. In the sequel trilogy we don't have anything of that. Canto Bight was a poor example of telling a story (let me put Canto Boring aside), because you didn't expand on that conflict. You just say "Oh, look. The Resistance buys weapon from slave dealers.". Uh, so what? Are there any bad men/women on the Resistance because of that? Because we didn't see it in the movie. Don't they purchase these weapons to fight those same slave dealers at some point? Or even to fight the First Order that is clearly evil (Wiping out Hosnian Prime, for example)? Cool, you may say that Canto Bight started something with this conflict, but it didn't go through. And when it tried to go through, had a poorly delivery (IMO) from Benicio's Del Toro character "Have a problem? Don't join" and "Maybe". Poorly delivery that could've been worked out if the whole story had that much of a context.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10087
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 13:47:08 GMT
Kathleen the force is female KennedyRogue one writers.First öff Andrew when replying tö yöu shöuld I just pöst twice? Because I always have tö explain everything tö yöu. And yöur defense för them nöt being leftist is that they are white? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut? Dö yöu actually live ön this planet? And if yes then what röck dö yöu live under? I'm not talking about political ideologies (this is the wrong thread for it anyway) I'm merely talking about gender here. The Force is Female t-shirt is meant to inspire young girls, not implying that the Force is indeed female. If KK genuinely believes that then she clearly has never seen Star Wars before. Also, the fact that broomboy uses the Force at the end is proof of that as well as Kylo and Snoke. I dönt want tö talk pölitics either. But yöu knöw what? They are förcing me tö because they put them in their mövies. Sö a slave kid möving a broöm with the förce means they dönt have a feminist agenda? And Snöke and Kylö are ön the evil side because they are white supremacists.
|
|
MegaIllusiveMan
N3
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MegaIllusiveMan
PSN: MegaIllusiveMan
Posts: 807 Likes: 2,171
inherit
2919
0
Jun 22, 2023 16:44:00 GMT
2,171
MegaIllusiveMan
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
807
Jan 20, 2017 21:51:15 GMT
January 2017
megaillusiveman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
MegaIllusiveMan
MegaIllusiveMan
|
Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2018 13:51:51 GMT
Really...dude? Where the hell did you get the idea that KK said "we don't need Male fans"? Also, the fact that all their writers and directors are Male and white goes against that statement. There was one main Female lead being Jyn Esro. The rest were all Male yes there were other female roles, but not compared to the screen time that Jyn got. Kathleen the force is female KennedyRogue one writers.First öff Andrew when replying tö yöu shöuld I just pöst twice? Because I always have tö explain everything tö yöu. And yöur defense för them nöt being leftist is that they are white? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut? Dö yöu actually live ön this planet? And if yes then what röck dö yöu live under? I have to pop into this discussion and say something. What the fuck is this? Leftist, feminist or saying something like that is just plainly dumb. Let's just all agree that the stories they are putting up are bad. Wanna an example? Jyn Erso for Rogue One. That movie has a good spot on my favorite SW movies, and it didn't have that much of nonsense, buy a book or comic story-telling the sequels are having.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10087
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 13:56:21 GMT
Kathleen the force is female KennedyRogue one writers.First öff Andrew when replying tö yöu shöuld I just pöst twice? Because I always have tö explain everything tö yöu. And yöur defense för them nöt being leftist is that they are white? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut? Dö yöu actually live ön this planet? And if yes then what röck dö yöu live under? I have to pop into this discussion and say something. What the fuck is this? Leftist, feminist or saying something like that is just plainly dumb. Let's just all agree that the stories they are putting up are bad. Wanna an example? Jyn Erso for Rogue One. That movie has a good spot on my favorite SW movies, and it didn't have that much of nonsense, buy a book or comic story-telling the sequels are having. The pölicital discuss öf the mövies creaters came fröm me speculating that they hate the öriginal trilögy. Yeah you really shouldn't... I'm sure they have a whiteboard marked in red saying that "WE MUST DESTROY THIS FRANCHISE! WE FUCKING HATE THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS" Cause that makes sense. These peöple whö are making these mövies are leftist. They pröbably loök at the öriginal mövies with scörn because they werent "inclusive" enöugh. This is just höw I think it is. Especially if yöu actually hear them talk. Kathleen Kennedy saying they dönt need male fans. All the shit the writer för Rögue öne said. It is the önly explanatiön that makes sense tö me with the directiön these mövies have göne. The thing is when yöu dönt föcus ön peöple's skin colör ör whether ör nöt they have a penis, unlike leftist whö cant, the öriginal trilögy was a cultural phenomenön. And nöt just för America. It resinated with sö many peöple acröss sö many cultures because it was the classic tale öf goöd vs evil. The herö's jöurney. The classic mentör and student störy like Frodö and Gandölf or King Aurther and Merlin. But it was töld in a new great setting. With coöl pöwers and technolögy.
|
|
inherit
424
0
6,397
Andrew Waples
4,114
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Apr 22, 2018 13:57:49 GMT
Mega you make some very valid points Heya Budgee! Good to see you too . "Let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy." What? That was sorta the point of Canto Bight. It shows the rich are both supporting the First Order and the Resistance. I may not like Canto Bight either, but they do tell the galaxies story. Empire just focused on Han, Luke and Leia. At least 8 explained how a Resistance "got away." After Hoth, they somehow got away without the Empire following them? The Rebellion even seemed to get stronger by the end of Empire. As I explained before, it's in the book Bloodline. The rise of Resistence, there is some hints of First Order and how they stared. You don't even have to buy the book. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)You're just being redundant (It's in the book) at this point, I'm sorry. See, I did say I didn't want anything to do with the book or looking up the facts at some wikia or so, when I just could watch the movie thta explains these thing. The thing I said about telling the galaxy's stories wasn't refering to Canto Bight (Let me get to that later) Telling the galaxies stories is much more than just saying "oh, look. Rich people sell evil things to both sides", but explaining the whole background of things, like, for example, the Prequels did. The Rise of the Empire, how there were many Jedi and then they suddenly went almost extinct, the whole Palpatine and Clone Army plot that was EXPANDED (see, expanded) in The Clone Wars TV Show. This is explaining galaxy's story. How it began, how it ended, why and who was involved. In the sequel trilogy we don't have anything of that. Canto Bight was a poor example of telling a story (let me put Canto Boring aside), because you didn't expand on that conflict. You just say "Oh, look. The Resistance buys weapon from slave dealers.". Uh, so what? Are there any bad men/women on the Resistance because of that? Because we didn't see it in the movie. Don't they purchase these weapons to fight those same slave dealers at some point? Or even to fight the First Order that is clearly evil (Wiping out Hosnian Prime, for example)? Cool, you may say that Canto Bight started something with this conflict, but it didn't go through. And when it tried to go through, had a poorly delivery (IMO) from Benicio's Del Toro character "Have a problem? Don't join" and "Maybe". Poorly delivery that could've been worked out if the whole story had that much of a context. But that's the problem the info is out there. I'm not saying your not wrong, I'm just saying the info is out there for you. Bloodline explains the role that Leia is in 7. She would have been The New Republic's Chancellor, but because of her relations to Vader, she is no longer in that role. Would I have liked to have seen it? Of course I would have liked to have seen more politics in 7. But it's in book form.
|
|
MegaIllusiveMan
N3
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: MegaIllusiveMan
PSN: MegaIllusiveMan
Posts: 807 Likes: 2,171
inherit
2919
0
Jun 22, 2023 16:44:00 GMT
2,171
MegaIllusiveMan
I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
807
Jan 20, 2017 21:51:15 GMT
January 2017
megaillusiveman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
MegaIllusiveMan
MegaIllusiveMan
|
Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Apr 22, 2018 14:06:57 GMT
I have to pop into this discussion and say something. What the fuck is this? Leftist, feminist or saying something like that is just plainly dumb. Let's just all agree that the stories they are putting up are bad. Wanna an example? Jyn Erso for Rogue One. That movie has a good spot on my favorite SW movies, and it didn't have that much of nonsense, buy a book or comic story-telling the sequels are having. The pölicital discuss öf the mövies creaters came fröm me speculating that they hate the öriginal trilögy. These peöple whö are making these mövies are leftist. They pröbably loök at the öriginal mövies with scörn because they werent "inclusive" enöugh. This is just höw I think it is. Especially if yöu actually hear them talk. Kathleen Kennedy saying they dönt need male fans. All the shit the writer för Rögue öne said. It is the önly explanatiön that makes sense tö me with the directiön these mövies have göne. The thing is when yöu dönt föcus ön peöple's skin colör ör whether ör nöt they have a penis, unlike leftist whö cant, the öriginal trilögy was a cultural phenomenön. And nöt just för America. It resinated with sö many peöple acröss sö many cultures because it was the classic tale öf goöd vs evil. The herö's jöurney. The classic mentör and student störy like Frodö and Gandölf or King Aurther and Merlin. But it was töld in a new great setting. With coöl pöwers and technolögy. Lol, what? Why get political on this aspect? I mean, really, I don't understand how anything nowadays is a matter of throwing politics on it and claiming "OH, LOOK! LEFTIST!" Let's be honest here. If they really did hate the original trilogy, they would pretty much say screw it and go for that Rian Johnson's trilogy thing since the beggining (Not mentioning previous facts, characters or anything). Thing is, the stories, no matter how you look, are badly explained and intentionally leave holes for EU material. The Prequels, for example, were disliked by many fans. You would say George Lucas hated Star Wars at that point, because it had a bad and dumb plot and characters (Rose, Finn, Jar Jar) , just like the sequel trilogy has? My point is, why make it all political and involve something like that on this thread when we all like to discuss facts inside the SW universe and about it's storytelling, not the people behind it? For me, the whole Disney purchase of Lucasfilm already happened, and I can't do nothing about it. Simple as that. Liking it or not, many movies will still come, I'll still go to the theaters to watch them and hope that they are good, because I WANT to watch something good if I paid for it. At this point, having a discussion of who is leftist, who did what feminist agenda to SW is pretty much irrelevant and boring.
|
|
Evil
N3
Lurkin' since 24/02/2011
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Evil Mastered
PSN: Evil_Rurouni
Prime Posts: 2400
Prime Likes: 298
Posts: 464 Likes: 1,050
inherit
181
0
1,050
Evil
Lurkin' since 24/02/2011
464
August 2016
evil
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Evil Mastered
Evil_Rurouni
2400
298
|
Post by Evil on Apr 22, 2018 14:19:44 GMT
"Let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy." What? That was sorta the point of Canto Bight. It shows the rich are both supporting the First Order and the Resistance. I may not like Canto Bight either, but they do tell the galaxies story. Empire just focused on Han, Luke and Leia. At least 8 explained how a Resistance "got away." After Hoth, they somehow got away without the Empire following them? The Rebellion even seemed to get stronger by the end of Empire. As I explained before, it's in the book Bloodline. The rise of Resistence, there is some hints of First Order and how they stared. You don't even have to buy the book. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodline_(novel)Uwot m8? The bulk of TESB was the empire following the 3 main characters, but that doesn't exclude stuff happening offscreen to the minor characters that mirrors what we're already seeing. There's no need to show the exact same chase scene onscreen hundreds of times to account for everybody who was on hoth. Given how there was an entire fleet sent to hoth, and just a few ISD's and the SSD executor pursuing the 3 its implied quite heavily that the rest of the fleet are pursuing the other rebels offscreen. Oh, and if we're discussing non-movie sources then we see the empire trying (and eventually failing) to cut the rest of the rebels off from reaching the outer rim in the opening mission line of the "tie fighter" pc game, and I dare say there's book references to it too. Of course, that's just bonus content that's not actually required for TESB to work standalone. Bonus content outside of core story = good. Required content outside of core story = bad. As for the rebels getting stronger: Is it actually stated anywhere that hoth contained the entirety of the rebellion? If not, then it can be explained by having the fragments of the different cells reuniting in the outer rim after the empire's attack.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10087
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 14:51:41 GMT
The pölicital discuss öf the mövies creaters came fröm me speculating that they hate the öriginal trilögy. Lol, what? Why get political on this aspect? I mean, really, I don't understand how anything nowadays is a matter of throwing politics on it and claiming "OH, LOOK! LEFTIST!" Let's be honest here. If they really did hate the original trilogy, they would pretty much say screw it and go for that Rian Johnson's trilogy thing since the beggining (Not mentioning previous facts, characters or anything). Thing is, the stories, no matter how you look, are badly explained and intentionally leave holes for EU material. The Prequels, for example, were disliked by many fans. You would say George Lucas hated Star Wars at that point, because it had a bad and dumb plot and characters (Rose, Finn, Jar Jar) , just like the sequel trilogy has? My point is, why make it all political and involve something like that on this thread when we all like to discuss facts inside the SW universe and about it's storytelling, not the people behind it? For me, the whole Disney purchase of Lucasfilm already happened, and I can't do nothing about it. Simple as that. Liking it or not, many movies will still come, I'll still go to the theaters to watch them and hope that they are good, because I WANT to watch something good if I paid for it. At this point, having a discussion of who is leftist, who did what feminist agenda to SW is pretty much irrelevant and boring. It is irrelevant and böring tö yöu. I find it as öne öf the reasöns they hate the öriginal trilögy. And I agree with yöu ön nöt bringing pölitics intö a star wars disscusiön but it is fair game as a töpic önce they put it in their mövie. They böught the franchise because they knöw slapping the twö wörds Star Wars ön any mövie will bring in 500 milliön at minimum.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,092 Likes: 49,939
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,939
Iakus
21,092
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2018 15:53:46 GMT
I just think you guys are taking hating TLJ a bit too far. This is nothing compared to what prequel fans through for about 20 years. Though while I never really loved the prequels, for all their failings, they didn't sh*t on the original characters. So I was content to let the prequels be.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,092 Likes: 49,939
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,939
Iakus
21,092
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2018 16:00:55 GMT
Explaining it twice is also bad storytelling. There are times that stories just don't work in certain mediums. Those that have already read that material would say "I've already read that! I don't need to see it again!" They wouldn't need to explain it twice if it was properly placed on the movie. I mean, using a dialogue that was suggested for Leia isn't even explaining it twice, but referencing something that fans would be "oh, cool. If I want more Info, I can grab a book, but I can understand it on its own". An example of that? Han Solo talking with Leia why he had to leave Hoth in Ep V. "That Bounty Hunter on Ord Mantell made me change my mind." See, I didn't want to jump into this conversation (TBH, I've been a bit far from SW discussions here and dunno how to stay on the track after all this time), but I do agree that novels must be sold to expand on movies or additional non-essential information. My main problem with Ep VIII is that it seems to be a "let's tell this movie's story, but not the galaxy's." You leave from a peaceful galaxy post-Episode VI, the Empire defeated, then BAM! Thirty years later it all has gone to hell again. The Sith have been destroyed, but Snoke is a guy that was, according to Andy Serkis, more powerful than Vader and Palpatine, when we didn't see jackshit of it in the movies. Then, we have the formation of the First Order. Formed from the Ashes of Empire, like the opening crawl for Ep VII says it? So what? How did Snoke have access to that huge army? Why is there a Resistance now? Didn't they win on Ep VI, happy ending and all? My main issue is that those explanations were surely lacking, when they should be part of the movie itself. It's like I said they want to remake Star Wars in their own image. After thirty years things are right back where they started with an all powerful Totally Not Empire with their Totally Not Emperor fighting a plucky band of resistance fighters who are Totally Not the Rebellion. Like nothing's changed. Except the original cast are (except for Leia) all bitter old men who have failed at life and are just waiting to die. So now Disney can trot out the REAL heroes of the galaxy once the previous generation has been torn down and discarded. They're trying to do a Dark and Edgy Reboot without doing a reboot.
|
|