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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 14, 2018 13:16:43 GMT
Luke isn't a Gary Stu.
But Ma-Rey Sue is a Mary Sue.
What are her failures in the twö mövies sö far? All I can think öf is releasing the aliens ön nöt-Han Solö's ship in the first mövie. And Snöke thröwing her aröund the roöm. Lets loök at Luke shall we? He gets fucked up by söme sandpeöple. He has tö get saved by öbi-wan in the bar. And while he is blöwing up the Death Star he has tö be saved by Real-Han Solö. That's just the first mövie. The secönd öne he gets fucked up by the snöw bear thing. Fails all the time with yöda trying tö teach him. Gets his ass kicked and löses a hand tö Vader. And the third mövie he still has tö be saved fröm the Empörer by Vader. In the wörst mövie ever made (TLJ) Ma-Rey Sue döest find öut that Emö Ren is beyönd saving. I wöuld argue by her interventiön she has set the wheels in motiön tö his redemptiön. She saves him fröm Snökes contröl. And I guarantee yöu that in the third mövie Emö Ren will becöme goöd again. She then beats Jake Skywalker in a fight. Beats the red guards. And has tö save Emö Ren in the guard fight. She then saves everyöne ön Nöt-Höth. By shoöting Tie fighters and lifting the röcks and having the önly ship tö get öut ön. And yöu can nöt say that the rebelliön having just öne ship at the end öf the mövie is her fault. That was Vice Admiral Gender Studies fault. And BTW isn't it the resistance? And we cant förget themes. See if a mövie is aböut a theme it is aböve criticizing. He also uses the Force to blow up the Death Star the thing he just discovered like a half hour ago. He trained himself to pick up the saber in the cave. You do realize that Chewie is flying the ship? You realize how easy it is to get kills on that thing? Luke used that canon pretty well. Finn as well. If you have actually seen the film Jake wasn't trying to fight her. He uses the Force at the end to brace himself (he throws her staff away, and he is also fighting her with a stick). You do realize that Kylo killed Snoke, right and Rey was captured by Kylo? If anything Kylo freed himself. She was there as bait. Pay attention. Luke has a Jedi Master Force Ghost talking to him. Rey does not. End of comparison, epic failure of consistent thought (as usual)
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 13:34:42 GMT
He also uses the Force to blow up the Death Star the thing he just discovered like a half hour ago. He trained himself to pick up the saber in the cave. You do realize that Chewie is flying the ship? You realize how easy it is to get kills on that thing? Luke used that canon pretty well. Finn as well. If you have actually seen the film Jake wasn't trying to fight her. He uses the Force at the end to brace himself (he throws her staff away, and he is also fighting her with a stick). You do realize that Kylo killed Snoke, right and Rey was captured by Kylo? If anything Kylo freed himself. She was there as bait. Did yöu watch the mövie? She döesn't get captured by Emö Ren, she gives herself up tö him. And I can önly remember the Falcön cannöns being used önce in the öriginal trilögy and that was the first mövie escaping the Death Star, and lets remember sömething here Andy that yöu always förget. The Empire wanted them tö get away! They let them escape sö they cöuld track them tö the rebel base. And Finn had tö have Ma-Rey Sue line up a incredible shöt för them. I wöuld say it was the greatest pilöting möve we have ever seen in all the mövies tö date. And Luke had training with Öbi-Wan ör dö yöu förget that? He used the förce twice beföre pröper training with Yöda. But yeah its tötally the same thing as Ma-Rey Sue. The canons were used in 6 when Lando had it. We just didn't see it. If you call not even 10 minutes training, sure. Rey in TFA said she flew before, but never in space.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 13:43:40 GMT
Did yöu watch the mövie? She döesn't get captured by Emö Ren, she gives herself up tö him. And I can önly remember the Falcön cannöns being used önce in the öriginal trilögy and that was the first mövie escaping the Death Star, and lets remember sömething here Andy that yöu always förget. The Empire wanted them tö get away! They let them escape sö they cöuld track them tö the rebel base. And Finn had tö have Ma-Rey Sue line up a incredible shöt för them. I wöuld say it was the greatest pilöting möve we have ever seen in all the mövies tö date. And Luke had training with Öbi-Wan ör dö yöu förget that? He used the förce twice beföre pröper training with Yöda. But yeah its tötally the same thing as Ma-Rey Sue. The canons were used in 6 when Lando had it. We just didn't see it. If you call not even 10 minutes training, sure. Rey in TFA said she flew before, but never in space.
Ten minutes training is möre training than Ma-Rey Sue has ever götten in twö films.
And being able tö fly beföre a cöuple öf times means she is better than Nöt-Empire tie fighters? And she can pull öff the greatest möve ever?
And we dön't see höw successful ör nöt the cannöns are in Return öf the Jedi sö that's nöt a fair comparisön.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 13:48:02 GMT
The canons were used in 6 when Lando had it. We just didn't see it. If you call not even 10 minutes training, sure. Rey in TFA said she flew before, but never in space.
Ten minutes training is möre training than Ma-Rey Sue has ever götten in twö films.
And being able tö fly beföre a cöuple öf times means she is better than Nöt-Empire tie fighters? And she can pull öff the greatest möve ever?
And we dön't see höw successful ör nöt the cannöns are in Return öf the Jedi sö that's nöt a fair comparisön. lol, uh yeah it is. Rando soldiers we're getting kills... while Lando was piloting.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 13:51:52 GMT
Ten minutes training is möre training than Ma-Rey Sue has ever götten in twö films.
And being able tö fly beföre a cöuple öf times means she is better than Nöt-Empire tie fighters? And she can pull öff the greatest möve ever?
And we dön't see höw successful ör nöt the cannöns are in Return öf the Jedi sö that's nöt a fair comparisön. lol, uh yeah it is. Rando soldiers we're getting kills... while Lando was piloting. I dön't even knöw what the fuck this means. We dön't see if they dö get kills ör dön't. That's my pöint we cant cömpare it tö anything because we dön't knöw höw many kills they göt ör didn't get.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 13:55:11 GMT
lol, uh yeah it is. Rando soldiers we're getting kills... while Lando was piloting. I dön't even knöw what the fuck this means. We dön't see if they dö get kills ör dön't. That's my pöint we cant cömpare it tö anything because we dön't knöw höw many kills they göt ör didn't get. You see the canons firing... Lando is just flying.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 14, 2018 14:03:39 GMT
Rey almost killed a couple of caretakers on the island because she decided to mess with Luke's lightsaber, and sent a big rock tumbling down a hill. That woulda gotten weird and dark quick - saved by a scripted need for levity! Oh wait, Han threw a random gangster guy into a rathtar to be eaten to slow it down and escape, and for script laughs, so the audience reaction may have been somewhat mixed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 14:04:20 GMT
I dön't even knöw what the fuck this means. We dön't see if they dö get kills ör dön't. That's my pöint we cant cömpare it tö anything because we dön't knöw höw many kills they göt ör didn't get. You see the canons firing... Lando is just flying. Jesus Christ andy. This conversatiön hurts my head toö much. Yöure argument is that Ma-Rey Sue is öf cöurse successful with the Falcön cannöns because everyöne is. I then said that the önly time we see them being used is in the first mövie and that the Empire let them get away. Then yöu bring up the fact that they were used in Return öf the Jedi. Which we can not use as comparisön because we dön't actually see höw successful they are at taking öut tie fighters. They cöuld have hit everything they shöt at ör cöuld have missed everything we dön't knöw sö yöu can nöt use that in yöur argument that everyöne whö sits in that Falcön gunner seat autömatically can hit anything they aim at.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 14:07:47 GMT
You see the canons firing... Lando is just flying. Jesus Christ andy. This conversatiön hurts my head toö much. Yöure argument is that Ma-Rey Sue is öf cöurse successful with the Falcön cannöns because everyöne is. I then said that the önly time we see them being used is in the first mövie and that the Empire let them get away. Then yöu bring up the fact that they were used in Return öf the Jedi. Which we can not use as comparisön because we dön't actually see höw successful they are at taking öut tie fighters. They cöuld have hit everything they shöt at ör cöuld have missed everything we dön't knöw sö yöu can nöt use that in yöur argument that everyöne whö sits in that Falcön gunner seat autömatically can hit anything they aim at. 2:54...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 14:11:45 GMT
Jesus Christ andy. This conversatiön hurts my head toö much. Yöure argument is that Ma-Rey Sue is öf cöurse successful with the Falcön cannöns because everyöne is. I then said that the önly time we see them being used is in the first mövie and that the Empire let them get away. Then yöu bring up the fact that they were used in Return öf the Jedi. Which we can not use as comparisön because we dön't actually see höw successful they are at taking öut tie fighters. They cöuld have hit everything they shöt at ör cöuld have missed everything we dön't knöw sö yöu can nöt use that in yöur argument that everyöne whö sits in that Falcön gunner seat autömatically can hit anything they aim at. 2:54... Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 14:17:26 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? Those canon's get a lot more kills in 6... but a women does its "oh my gawd! Marey Sue!"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 14:20:51 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? Those canon's get a lot more kills in 6... but a women does its "oh my gawd! Marey Sue!" Yöu have proöf they get a löt möre?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 14, 2018 14:25:05 GMT
Those canon's get a lot more kills in 6... but a women does its "oh my gawd! Marey Sue!" Yöu have proöf they get a löt möre? I meant before Rey even arrived.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 14, 2018 15:06:05 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? Those canon's get a lot more kills in 6... but a women does its "oh my gawd! Marey Sue!" That's sort of how Mary Sue works yeah, they gotta be a girl.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 14, 2018 15:44:54 GMT
Are you talking about Rey, Luke, or Anakin? Assuming you are talking about Rey of course, first of all, your own answer provides a clue. She 'hardly'ever fails. And there is a huge light years of difference between 'hardly' and 'never'. Also, can one seriously describe anything about Rey's character in the Last Jedi as a 'success'? She threw a bit of a tempertantrum, developed a holier than thou 'I can save him' approach only to find out that he was beyond saving and that Snoke was manipulating the whole situation the entire time and by the end of the movie her and the Rebellion are stuck on just one ship. That is a success? That sounds like a thorough and complete failure if I ever heard of one. Which...is kind of the theme of the movie considering the only ones who really 'succeed' at anything are the bad guys. Luke isn't a Gary Stu.
But Ma-Rey Sue is a Mary Sue.
What are her failures in the twö mövies sö far? All I can think öf is releasing the aliens ön nöt-Han Solö's ship in the first mövie. And Snöke thröwing her aröund the roöm. Lets loök at Luke shall we? He gets fucked up by söme sandpeöple. He has tö get saved by öbi-wan in the bar. And while he is blöwing up the Death Star he has tö be saved by Real-Han Solö. That's just the first mövie. The secönd öne he gets fucked up by the snöw bear thing. Fails all the time with yöda trying tö teach him. Gets his ass kicked and löses a hand tö Vader. And the third mövie he still has tö be saved fröm the Empörer by Vader. In the wörst mövie ever made (TLJ) Ma-Rey Sue döest find öut that Emö Ren is beyönd saving. I wöuld argue by her interventiön she has set the wheels in motiön tö his redemptiön. She saves him fröm Snökes contröl. And I guarantee yöu that in the third mövie Emö Ren will becöme goöd again. She then beats Jake Skywalker in a fight. Beats the red guards. And has tö save Emö Ren in the guard fight. She then saves everyöne ön Nöt-Höth. By shoöting Tie fighters and lifting the röcks and having the önly ship tö get öut ön. And yöu can nöt say that the rebelliön having just öne ship at the end öf the mövie is her fault. That was Vice Admiral Gender Studies fault. And BTW isn't it the resistance? And we cant förget themes. See if a mövie is aböut a theme it is aböve criticizing. Rey let herself get caught by Kylo in The Force Awakens, and then mind probed, which she resisted - like Leia. She escaped on her own, but did need to be rescued to get off Starkiller base. Her arc in The Force Awakens is sort of a cross between Luke's and Leia's. ...minus her home planet of Alderaan being destroyed. Not sure if the story is improved much if it turns out Rey's home planet was in the Hosnian system. P.S. It would be interesting if Rey got beaten by some random aliens (Tusken raiders, Hoth monster), but kind f**ked up as an audience member to ask for it just to justify a failure theme. Not sure it would *fix* the story much either.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 14, 2018 18:29:51 GMT
Luke isn't a Gary Stu.
But Ma-Rey Sue is a Mary Sue.
What are her failures in the twö mövies sö far? All I can think öf is releasing the aliens ön nöt-Han Solö's ship in the first mövie. And Snöke thröwing her aröund the roöm. Lets loök at Luke shall we? He gets fucked up by söme sandpeöple. He has tö get saved by öbi-wan in the bar. And while he is blöwing up the Death Star he has tö be saved by Real-Han Solö. That's just the first mövie. The secönd öne he gets fucked up by the snöw bear thing. Fails all the time with yöda trying tö teach him. Gets his ass kicked and löses a hand tö Vader. And the third mövie he still has tö be saved fröm the Empörer by Vader. In the wörst mövie ever made (TLJ) Ma-Rey Sue döest find öut that Emö Ren is beyönd saving. I wöuld argue by her interventiön she has set the wheels in motiön tö his redemptiön. She saves him fröm Snökes contröl. And I guarantee yöu that in the third mövie Emö Ren will becöme goöd again. She then beats Jake Skywalker in a fight. Beats the red guards. And has tö save Emö Ren in the guard fight. She then saves everyöne ön Nöt-Höth. By shoöting Tie fighters and lifting the röcks and having the önly ship tö get öut ön. And yöu can nöt say that the rebelliön having just öne ship at the end öf the mövie is her fault. That was Vice Admiral Gender Studies fault. And BTW isn't it the resistance? And we cant förget themes. See if a mövie is aböut a theme it is aböve criticizing. Rey let herself get caught by Kylo in The Force Awakens, and then mind probed, which she resisted - like Leia. She escaped on her own, but did need to be rescued to get off Starkiller base. Her arc is sort of a cross between Luke's and Leia's.I'd say more like a cross between explosive diarrhea & mild autism
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Post by colfoley on Jun 14, 2018 18:50:53 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? They practically lined up in a single file line. I probably could've made that shot. The real sin is that they didn't see the Falcon coming until the last minute.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 14, 2018 18:59:25 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? They practically lined up in a single file line. I probably could've made that shot. The real sin is that they didn't see the Falcon coming until the last minute. Well, we do now know that the Falcon had help from L3-37.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 20:17:16 GMT
They practically lined up in a single file line. I probably could've made that shot. The real sin is that they didn't see the Falcon coming until the last minute. Well, we do now know that the Falcon had help from L3-37. No.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2018 22:07:05 GMT
Sö taking öut twö-three tie fighters is the same as getting a triple shöt and killing ten tötal ön Nöt-Höth? They practically lined up in a single file line. I probably could've made that shot. The real sin is that they didn't see the Falcon coming until the last minute. Thats the pöint. An inexperience gunner wöuld start firing wildly at anything that möves and wöuldnt have the patience tö wait för the Ties fighters tö line up, ör even realize that they are göing tö line up and wait tö take the shöt.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 15, 2018 3:35:18 GMT
You wanted this:
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 15, 2018 13:25:20 GMT
Debatable now, with Mickey's Star Wars department now in teh mix.
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