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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 20, 2018 9:35:47 GMT
Entertainment blogger David Poland recalls Lucas’ comment in Feb 2007 at the Publicist’s Guild luncheon: “George Lucas, giving the award to Sid Ganis, who was the in-house publicist on Star Wars: Episode Five – The Empire Strikes Back, said, ‘Sid is the reason why The Empire Strikes Back is always written about as the best of the films, when it actually was the worst one.'” "Worse than the prequels? Heh, oh George. NO
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 11:29:33 GMT
Well the problem is that this "no plot" is not obvious at all, and I'm still trying to figure out why you think all of the scenes do not contribute. The movie has a plot, the movie has worldbuilding, the plot does not always need to progress in every scene. If the world building (or whatever sidetracked the plot) is interesting I think that's fine too, but I think you are just discarding most of the plot as merely worldbuilding. The wampa scene is basically the first big loss (maybe 2nd given Tusken raiders) we see for Luke in Star Wars, and the near death experience sends him on his training. Han saving him demonstrates their relationship, and then later explains why Luke would leave Yoda to save him. I don't understand why that isn't considered part of the plot, even if it is boring or unnecessary to how the Rebels escape, it is the start of story of Luke's training. I'm no expert, but I've seen enough movies to be pretty sure there is not a rule that movies only have one plot. The plot doesn't need to progress in every scene, the problem is the first half contains very little that advances the main plot. The near death experience doesn't send him on his training, Ben sends him on his training. That Ben appeared to him hasn't been able to be attributed to his near death experience (ask the fan community what sparked the force vision of Ben and you might get 5 or 6 different but credible answers). Han is character development. The existence of b-plots are a fine thing, but I was talking about a main plot of the story which deals with the main conflict and the main goals of the main characters. The main plot deals with the main conflict, and are the causal events of that main conflict. Track that and "Luke fights a wampa" doesn't appear on the list. Ben appearing to Luke does, but like I said before, eliminate the wampa fight and the main plot isn't affected. But like I said before, I think the fanbase likes this movie because it contains character growth. But just because a large amount of people like something doesn't mean it's any good, or great, or flawless *looks at Twilight* The main plöt öf the mövie is Vader is searching för Luke and Luke needs tö train tö becöme a Jedi. That scene shöw he is nöt a Jedi yet and needs tö train tö be able tö take care öf himself. This thread is fucking pathetic. Sine people like the OT, some the prequels and some the new series. Some like all of it (raises hand) get over it for fucks sake! The new mövies are actively deströying the öld önes. And höw anyöne can be ökay with that cönfuses us.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 20, 2018 13:28:37 GMT
Jedi masters are overrated. Arrogant, blind self righteous, self serving twits. They sure screwed up that prophecy thing with Anakin bringing "balance" to the Force. You have thousands of light side users of the Force and two dark siders of the Force, how do you think that balance thing is going to work? Something like a massive purge of the light side to bring balance to the Force, that's how. So... what you're saying is you agree with Luke's assessment in TLJ?
"Now that they're extinct the Jedi are romanticised, deified... but if you strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure, hypocrisy, hubris. At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire and wipe them out." Sure. Once they Legends out all the good Jedi Masters...
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 20, 2018 13:32:46 GMT
Well the problem is that this "no plot" is not obvious at all, and I'm still trying to figure out why you think all of the scenes do not contribute. The movie has a plot, the movie has worldbuilding, the plot does not always need to progress in every scene. If the world building (or whatever sidetracked the plot) is interesting I think that's fine too, but I think you are just discarding most of the plot as merely worldbuilding. The wampa scene is basically the first big loss (maybe 2nd given Tusken raiders) we see for Luke in Star Wars, and the near death experience sends him on his training. Han saving him demonstrates their relationship, and then later explains why Luke would leave Yoda to save him. I don't understand why that isn't considered part of the plot, even if it is boring or unnecessary to how the Rebels escape, it is the start of story of Luke's training. I'm no expert, but I've seen enough movies to be pretty sure there is not a rule that movies only have one plot. The plot doesn't need to progress in every scene, the problem is the first half contains very little that advances the main plot. The near death experience doesn't send him on his training, Ben sends him on his training. That Ben appeared to him hasn't been able to be attributed to his near death experience (ask the fan community what sparked the force vision of Ben and you might get 5 or 6 different but credible answers). Han is character development. The existence of b-plots are a fine thing, but I was talking about a main plot of the story which deals with the main conflict and the main goals of the main characters. The main plot deals with the main conflict, and are the causal events of that main conflict. Track that and "Luke fights a wampa" doesn't appear on the list. Ben appearing to Luke does, but like I said before, eliminate the wampa fight and the main plot isn't affected. But like I said before, I think the fanbase likes this movie because it contains character growth. But just because a large amount of people like something doesn't mean it's any good, or great, or flawless *looks at Twilight* Welp, sounds like The Empire Strikes Back had a plot and a couple of sub-plots that may or may not (in some moof milker's head) have contributed to that main plot. Glad we got that cleared up. Whew!
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 20, 2018 13:53:04 GMT
[quote source="/post/ This thread is fucking pathetic. Sine people like the OT, some the prequels and some the new series. Some like all of it (raises hand) get over it for fucks sake! The new mövies are actively deströying the öld önes. And höw anyöne can be ökay with that cönfuses us. I don’t agree at all. I feel the new movies add on and expand on the old and I see nothing that points to them destroying the others.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 20, 2018 13:54:05 GMT
This thread is fucking pathetic. Sine people like the OT, some the prequels and some the new series. Some like all of it (raises hand) get over it for fucks sake! A lot of anger in this thread. Don't come in unless you're looking to fight it seems xD Apparently.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 20, 2018 14:15:37 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 20, 2018 16:01:18 GMT
This thread is fucking pathetic. Sine people like the OT, some the prequels and some the new series. Some like all of it (raises hand) get over it for fucks sake! More pathetic then someone who just drunkenly bursts into the thread to reeeeeeee? Now that I'd disagree with.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 20, 2018 16:04:52 GMT
This thread is fucking pathetic. Sine people like the OT, some the prequels and some the new series. Some like all of it (raises hand) get over it for fucks sake! More pathetic then someone who just drunkenly bursts into the thread to reeeeeeee? Now that I'd disagree with. That’s not what I did and I’m sick and tired of people acting like their opinion is fact.
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 20, 2018 16:08:30 GMT
More pathetic then someone who just drunkenly bursts into the thread to reeeeeeee? Now that I'd disagree with. That’s not what I did and I’m sick and tired of people acting like their opinion is fact. Get out if you don't like it? The thread doesn't have to move to accommodate you or any other singular person.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 20, 2018 16:39:57 GMT
Alright, calm down. As long as no rules are broken, people can post wherever they want and discussion will attend to itself.
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Post by Obadiah on Jun 20, 2018 17:22:45 GMT
I haven't read the new EU novels about the heroes post RotJ (the close timeline between TFA and TLJ sorta messes with that kickass Phasma comic I browsed at the store), so what's the deal with Luke before the Academy massacre? Is he still hopefull, or is chasing down the remnants of the Empire eating away at him? Kinda want to see if spirit Luke returns in the episode IX what he is like. P.S.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 20, 2018 17:48:22 GMT
That’s not what I did and I’m sick and tired of people acting like their opinion is fact. Get out if you don't like it? The thread doesn't have to move to accommodate you or any other singular person. I will not. I can post my opinions just like you can. But I will no longer respond to assholes.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 20, 2018 17:50:09 GMT
I haven't read the new EU novels about the heroes post RotJ (the close timeline between TFA and TLJ sorta messes with that kickass Phasma comic I browsed at the store), so what's the deal with Luke before the Academy massacre? Is he still hopefull, or is chasing down the remnants of the Empire eating away at him? Kinda want to see if spirit Luke returns in the episode IX what he is like. Haven't you heard of the tragedy of Jake Skywalker the Hermit?
I thought not. It is not a story the Jedi would tell you...
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Post by Iakus on Jun 20, 2018 17:50:22 GMT
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 20, 2018 17:52:03 GMT
More pathetic then someone who just drunkenly bursts into the thread to reeeeeeee? Now that I'd disagree with. That’s not what I did and I’m sick and tired of people acting like their opinion is fact. As opposed to you, my Lord? How valuable is your opinion on this matter? Pretty sure its value is equal to mine, and thus we cancel each other out. Therefore, the others continue in the vast democracy that is intarwebz, without fear of your bully pulpit
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Post by newnation on Jun 20, 2018 18:13:05 GMT
And now there is an argument about an argument. Yep....this thread has now officially gone to shit. Is anyone throwing a party? I'll bring the drinks and cheez-its.
I still want to see what was planned before Johnson came onboard. I know we might see some of it in episode 9 but I want them to at least post JJ's notes after 9 is released.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 20, 2018 18:20:22 GMT
And now there is an argument about an argument. Yep....this thread has now officially gone to shit. Is anyone throwing a party? I'll bring the drinks and cheez-its. I still want to see what was planned before Johnson came onboard. I know we might see some of it in episode 9 but I want them to at least post JJ's notes after 9 is released. Shut up n00b If you actually read the thread, and participated in it from day one, the best post was the OP and it has been all downhill from there. Somehow, we all keep participating, discussing and arguing, while your feelings get hurt and you feel the need to scold us. Congratulations, you have further derailed the thread.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 20, 2018 18:44:06 GMT
And now there is an argument about an argument. Yep....this thread has now officially gone to shit. Is anyone throwing a party? I'll bring the drinks and cheez-its. I still want to see what was planned before Johnson came onboard. I know we might see some of it in episode 9 but I want them to at least post JJ's notes after 9 is released. He has no notes. I wish I were kidding
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Post by smilesja on Jun 20, 2018 19:17:29 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on Jun 20, 2018 19:20:52 GMT
Get out if you don't like it? The thread doesn't have to move to accommodate you or any other singular person. I will not. I can post my opinions just like you can. But I will no longer respond to assholes. ...So this entire little tangent of yours was pointless? Just a little venting?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 20, 2018 19:36:39 GMT
Alright, calm down. As long as no rules are broken, people can post wherever they want and discussion will attend to itself. As little attention was paid to CrutchCricket , it's time to apply sanctions. If things are calm and free of snarking at each other in here for a couple of pages (tag me please), I'll change the thread title back.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 20, 2018 19:42:29 GMT
Alright, calm down. As long as no rules are broken, people can post wherever they want and discussion will attend to itself. As little attention was paid to CrutchCricket , it's time to apply sanctions. If things are calm and free of snarking at each other in here for a couple of pages (tag me please), I'll change the thread title back. The thread title should stay.
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