inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 17:06:22 GMT
What I see isn't a "film with flaws", what *I* see is practically sacrilege, so yeah, I definitely understand why people feel the need to drive the point home as it were. Practically sacrilege? Seriously?
Take it down a notch, it's a movie about spaceships and space-wizards, not something worth instigating the Spanish Inquisition over.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Sept 27, 2024 22:23:43 GMT
6,345
Andrew Waples
4,078
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 4, 2018 17:12:28 GMT
Seriously? "Sacriledge"? No wonder that filmmaker doesn't wanna do a Star Wars film... I mean, I don't have too many terms to describe what utter failure TLJ is in the context of SW. (at least, in my eyes) After all, TLJ did bring me to the point of me saying that SW (or rather, Disney Wars) might as well be dead for all I care. If you thought it was really dead, you wouldn't be posting in this thread as frequently as you do.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 17:17:27 GMT
*Practically*. It's a term I used to convey my utter disappointment with it, and how far it falls from what it could have been. It's an hyperbole, a figure of speech, just like your "Spanish inquisition" is a clear hyperbole. I know, that's why I countered with religious-themed hyperbole featuring a similar major overreaction from a group of people.
But fine, if makes people feel better to yell "R2-Deus Vult", then knock yourselves out.
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 4, 2018 17:19:56 GMT
Practically sacrilege? Seriously?
Take it down a notch, it's a movie about spaceships and space-wizards, not something worth instigating the Spanish Inquisition over. Our chief weapon is memes, complaints and memesOur two chief weapons are complaints and memes and a ruthless efficiency Hang on, I'll come in again.
|
|
inherit
4578
0
5,014
griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
4,259
Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
March 2017
griffith82
|
Post by griffith82 on Jul 4, 2018 17:22:47 GMT
Seriously? "Sacriledge"? No wonder that filmmaker doesn't wanna do a Star Wars film... I mean, I don't have too many terms to describe what utter failure TLJ is in the context of SW. (at least, in my eyes) After all, TLJ did bring me to the point of me saying that SW (or rather, Disney Wars) might as well be dead for all I care.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 17:31:54 GMT
I'm honestly not sure what you are talking about, but I can't say that I care too much either. *shrug* Funny, that's how I feel when people insist on harping on about TLJ.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jul 4, 2018 17:34:53 GMT
Sure the fans can ruin Star Wars. They are now a vocal interest group which content creators feel they have to appease in order to avoid backlashes like, say, campaigns to not watch their films. If the backlash against TLJ affected sales of Solo, then now they're affecting the very viability of the franchise, and maybe there won't be future movies, etc... Not to mention that the negative environment that the fans can create on social media is pushing away the good talent from future films. Who would want to deal with the fallout from this fanbase, if the fans reacted poorly? It's ironic to hear you talking about "vocal interest groups", but I digress. Again, fans can only react to something, they have no direct control over it in order to "ruin it". Most films don't get the same backlash TLJ received, there is a reason for that. Yes, fans reacted poorly, on a practically unprecedented scale, so instead of attacking the fans, MAYBE the smart play would be to check what went wrong. Maybe the smart play is to try and understand what caused so many people who were willing to spend an outrageous amount of money on the SW IP in the past and make it into one of the strongest IP's in the world - to change their attitude so utterly about said IP. Making a SW movie should have been a slam dunk, a child who knows nothing about film-making couldn't have fucked it up as thoroughly as Rian Jhonson did. As purely a piece of entertainment, and not a necessity like, say, food, the reaction is kind of important. If the fan reaction to a piece of entertainment can be so bad as to impact general sales (through bad publicity, and purposefully lowering scores on aggregate sites) and scare away talented creators from future entries, they do in fact affect fairly directly how the movies will be made, and so the fans can "ruin it" - that's just beyond obvious. Undoubtedly Disney and Lucasfilm are evaluating the criticisms from the "the fans", along with their reaction, but they're not going to publicly trash their own movie. I'm not sure where they're "attacking the fans", unless this is the same BS attack I kept hearing that Bioware was doing after ME3 was released, "OMG, BIOWARE IS NOT COMPLETELY AGREEING WITH ME AND WANTS ME TO CALM DOWN!!!!???"
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 18:19:18 GMT
Well, you certainly cared enough to respond multiple times. As have you, far more times in this thread than I have, so it would seem. Anyway, this is getting boring, and I'm not here to convince you of anything. Good, because if you were trying to convince me that TLJ is "practically sacrilege", you failed miserably. So we can talk about that, or not at all, because the banter leaves something to be desired. Depends, can you withhold the salt or do you it need to grit more roads?
A fun conversation of Star Wars would be nice... people in the fandom do remember when Star Wars was meant to be "fun", right?
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 18:25:58 GMT
It's just, mostly I prefer to actually discuss something, or actually make a point, this, whatever it is, feels pointless. Pointless definitely sums up most of the fandoms unnecessary hatred towards TLJ, I must agree.
|
|
inherit
6864
0
1,975
aglomeracja
1,178
April 2017
aglomeracja
|
Post by aglomeracja on Jul 4, 2018 18:30:42 GMT
lol
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 4, 2018 18:33:24 GMT
It's just, mostly I prefer to actually discuss something, or actually make a point, this, whatever it is, feels pointless. Pointless definitely sums up most of the fandoms unnecessary hatred towards TLJ, I must agree. The hatred is necessary.
|
|
correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,273
inherit
Dr Obfuscate
807
0
Aug 16, 2024 21:14:41 GMT
5,273
correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,831
August 2016
correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
|
Post by correctamundo on Jul 4, 2018 18:41:04 GMT
So today I finally watched The last Jedi. And I am truly at a loss what all the salt is about? It had most of the great feeling of adventure that the first one had. Only I'm not ten any longer. And wtf was it that had the scum of the earth target Tran for? Sacrilege?
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 4, 2018 18:43:23 GMT
Pointless definitely sums up most of the fandoms unnecessary hatred towards TLJ, I must agree. As a follower of the Dark Side I disagree. Hate definitely has a point. In any case, I'd say that the reaction is far from pointless, as it seems to have had an effect. A good effect too, Disney reining in LucasFilms.
|
|
inherit
9583
0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by warden on Jul 4, 2018 18:47:51 GMT
Make Zaalbar kill Mission.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,025
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 18:55:19 GMT
In any case, I'd say that the reaction is far from pointless, as it seems to have had an effect.By taking the films we waited forever to get more of... and making the atmosphere so toxic, no filmmaker wants to touch 'em!
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jul 4, 2018 18:59:43 GMT
As purely a piece of entertainment, and not a necessity like, say, food, the reaction is kind of important. If the fan reaction to a piece of entertainment can be so bad as to impact general sales (through bad publicity, and purposefully lowering scores on aggregate sites) and scare away talented creators from future entries, they do in fact affect fairly directly how the movies will be made, and so the fans can "ruin it" - that's just beyond obvious. Of course reaction has impact, that's the point. If it didn't have impact why would the high and mighty in Hollywood ever care about it? Impacting the bottom line is the only reliable way a consumer has to get the attention of a large corporation. And frankly, I don't see the difference you attempted to illustrate between food and entertainment. Your logic could be used similarly on a steak. Not if steak is the only option for food available to you - you'd still need to eat it. It's sort of intrinsic to the definition of "necessity". If Star Wars was the only option for entertainment, you just not buy or consume it and still be just fine. So the fan reaction is basically much much MUCH more important to entertainment than it is to the food, because entertainment is purely recreational and not utilitarian. Understand yet? Let me guess - "frankly", now you want to argue about how choice of food (or the steak) is the same as choice of entertainment? Except, we don't need entertainment, so whereas public reaction to food is important, it is not nearly as important as it is to entertainment, which is the point I was making. Undoubtedly Disney and Lucasfilm are evaluating the criticisms from the "the fans", along with their reaction, but they're not going to publicly trash their own movie. I'm not sure where they're "attacking the fans", unless this is the same BS attack I kept hearing that Bioware was doing after ME3 was released, "OMG, BIOWARE IS NOT COMPLETELY AGREEING WITH ME AND WANTS ME TO CALM DOWN!!!!???" By "attacking the fans" I meant spinning the reactions as "sexist, racist, etc." which is basically the go-to tactic from the left these days. And since the left is (surprisingly perhaps) synonymous with most of the wealthy elite these days (certainly Hollywood), there was a concerted effort from all the usual suspects to de-legitimize the critics and criticism aimed at TLJ via the above accusations. The racist/sexist criticism of the fans that I've seen is on critics of TLJ who were actually being racist and sexist - although, I really haven't been following the fan criticisms and reaction from "Hollywood" closely.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 4, 2018 19:05:32 GMT
In any case, I'd say that the reaction is far from pointless, as it seems to have had an effect.By taking the films we waited forever to get more of... and making the atmosphere so toxic, no filmmaker wants to touch 'em! It's Kathleen Kennedy's fault for attaching untested or minimally talented directors to the last two films one of which needed to be entirely reshot by Ron Howard. Now contrast this to the fandom's general liking of Rogue One and The Force Awakens.
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 4, 2018 19:11:35 GMT
Now contrast this to the fandom's general liking of Rogue One and The Force Awakens. Much to learn, you still have.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 4, 2018 19:16:05 GMT
Now contrast this to the fandom's general liking of Rogue One and The Force Awakens. Much to learn, you still have. C'mon the audience reviews were very favorable upon release compared to the last two films despite all the criticisms.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Jul 4, 2018 19:16:27 GMT
It's just, mostly I prefer to actually discuss something, or actually make a point, this, whatever it is, feels pointless. Pointless definitely sums up most of the fandoms unnecessary hatred towards TLJ, I must agree.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Jul 4, 2018 19:18:06 GMT
By taking the films we waited forever to get more of... and making the atmosphere so toxic, no filmmaker wants to touch 'em! It's Kathleen Kennedy's fault for attaching untested or minimally talented directors to the last two films one of which needed to be entirely reshot by Ron Howard. Now contrast this to the fandom's general liking of Rogue One and The Force Awakens.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,508
Hier0phant
3,857
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 4, 2018 19:27:53 GMT
C'mon the audience reviews were very favorable upon release compared to the last two films despite all the criticisms. I mean, practically anything SW was better than TLJ, that's not exactly a high bar. True. TLJ made me appreciate AoTC.
|
|
Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
658
0
3,624
Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
|
Post by Obadiah on Jul 4, 2018 20:08:24 GMT
Not if steak is the only option for food available to you - you'd still need to eat. It's sort of intrinsic to the definition of "necessity". If Star Wars was the only option for entertainment, you just not buy or consume it and still be just fine. So the fan reaction is basically much much MUCH more important to entertainment than it is to the food, because entertainment is purely recreational and not utilitarian. Understand yet? Let me guess - "frankly", now you want to argue about how choice of food (or the steak) is the same as choice of entertainment? Except, we don't need entertainment, so whereas public reaction to food is important, it is not nearly as important as it is to entertainment, which is the point I was making. Are we talking about a starving man walking the desert with only bread to eat? Your comparison is so irrelevant and so far out there that I simply don't see any connection between it and the subject of discussion. We were talking about whether fans can ruin Star Wars, and I said they could because their reaction to a piece of fiction is far more important to the production of the next installment of that franchise (not to mention other related merchandise around the movie they are criticizing), and you said they couldn't because they have no direct input into the movie's creation. I said their reaction to the movie was in fact input that was far more important than, for example, public reaction to something like food because food is a necessity and people will always need food, whereas Star Wars is a just a piece of recreation that the public does not need and will do just fine without. The connection is by example, to demonstrate how, obviously, public reaction affects the production of different types of products in different ways, and reaction is less important to some, like food, than others, like movies in a franchise. The bottom line is simple: There Are Going To Be More Movies. Including Star Wars Movies. (the IP is too valuable not to do something with it) I don't buy the argument that "Art" suffered here either. The "Art" defense is basically "you can't criticize my movie and claim that it's shit because art is subjective and you weren't high enough on drugs to appreciate it". What will happen is that the next director will probably take a more careful approach, perhaps Ego will take a secondary priority to respect for the setting and established lore. (though considering the current state of the franchise I'm honestly not sure how they get out of this conundrum, it's either re-making the whole thing - which is too much of a humiliation for them, or try to somehow eat the cake and leave it whole, which is as likely to succeed as it sounds) If there is no next Star Wars movie, or the next movie is terrible, or "the fans" go on another rant because it is too X, then I too would not say that "art suffered" either. At this point, Star Wars is far too much of a commerical product, as opposed to an original artistic creation, for me to think fan reaction to it is really that important to "art". I'm guessing Rian would disagree that he was not being pretty careful with the characters. Given how much oversight there is in these movies, I'd be surpirsed if his ego getting in the way is the source of the fan complaints of the plot. The racist/sexist criticism of the fans that I've seen is on critics of TLJ who were actually being racist and sexist - although, I really haven't been following the fan criticisms and reaction from "Hollywood" closely. Of course that's going to be your assumption. I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! Not really. No doubt. Clearly you have parsed every utterance from "Hollywood" to have far more of an understanding than I.
|
|
inherit
Darth Dennis
111
0
Jul 27, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
9,146
masterwarderz
8,113
August 2016
mastermasterwarderz
19,824
|
Post by masterwarderz on Jul 4, 2018 21:11:03 GMT
And I am truly at a loss what all the salt is about? You could correct that with literally twenty minutes of research and google searches
|
|
correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,273
inherit
Dr Obfuscate
807
0
Aug 16, 2024 21:14:41 GMT
5,273
correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,831
August 2016
correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
|
Post by correctamundo on Jul 4, 2018 21:38:41 GMT
And I am truly at a loss what all the salt is about? You could correct that with literally twenty minutes of research and google searches I just saw the movie. It had more or less all the usual ingredients of a Star wars movie. Researching that for twenty minutes would be a waste of time. I could maybe give it 20 seconds.
|
|