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Post by colfoley on Jun 29, 2020 3:03:23 GMT
Finnnaalllllllllllly finished Rebels today and boy it was a great send off to the series all things told. Even had me emotional at times and well Ezra's...final temptation for lack of a better term...was really well done. I suppose the only thing that bothered me was how they removed Ezra and Thrawn from events...it seemed a little...neat. Sad, yes, but a bit on the tidy side. Granted it would have been really hard to justify him not being in the OT had he stayed but...meh. Another small point of contention is that the bombardment of the Imperial Class Star Destroyer of Thrawn was still a little ridiculous bu not as bad as his bombardment of the Rebel Base in Zero Hour. Granted he was deliberately trying to get Ezra to surrender. Its also an interesting thought if Ezra had the only one who could make the time travel tunnel work. OH and speaking of which one of the strongest low key uses of the Force I have seen in Star Wars. Given what I believe on using the Force Ezra launching all that stone at those Imperials while being shot and blasted by them. As a bonus he was also doing so while clearly being pissed off and angry at being in pain so yey for the Force not being so clear cut.
As I have pointed out watching through Rebels this...well lets call it time 2.5....has been a bit more of a treat this time around. As I have brought up a few times knowing where the show would go...except for like the last 5 episodes..helped me appreciate it more. I could see the set up more (though it was weird how Hera and Kanan acted like a couple in the first few episodes, then just like really good friends like they decided to almost retcon their relationship out of existence only to bring it back again), and since I knew that Thrawn and Sabine would wind up being good characters I could sit back and enjoy them more...though Sabine was still annoying in the beginning. Also Callis's arc in SWs is probably the best example of what he did...in Star Wars. Hell maybe even one of the better redemption stories in SWs really and I did like his sentiments to Governor Price at the end. Honestly while this surprises me I think I actually ended up liking this story and this series a smidge more then The Clone Wars. I really appreciated following around a central group of characters rather then galaxy hopping and, as I said, the galaxy and time hopping nature of the Clone Wars left it open to a lot of clunker episodes and arcs. Not to say everything in Rebels was brilliant, it was a bit too episodic at times, however, much like most things Star Wars these days ended up being quite excellent.
Edit: While it kind of did a lot of the same things as each other I kind of prefer this ending episode to Clone Wars's final arc too.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 29, 2020 3:58:32 GMT
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Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 14:41:18 GMT
How can anyone take this guy seriously anymore?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 29, 2020 15:13:58 GMT
How can anyone take this guy seriously anymore? What's wrong with it?
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 29, 2020 15:23:36 GMT
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Post by Iakus on Jun 29, 2020 15:27:02 GMT
How can anyone take this guy seriously anymore? What's wrong with it? Technological assessment, nothing. But trying to assert "muh fascism", politicizing escapist entertainment, is exactly what's wrong with Hollywood today.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 29, 2020 15:31:07 GMT
Technological assessment, nothing. But trying to assert "muh fascism", politicizing escapist entertainment, is exactly what's wrong with Hollywood today. Ah, okay. That would have been my only complaint about that assessment, but not much of one since he's not wrong in this case (It's not like George was subtle about his Galactic Empire = Nazi Germany even in the OT). 95% of that tweet though is spot on.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 29, 2020 16:54:55 GMT
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Post by cypherj on Jun 29, 2020 17:52:38 GMT
www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-director-144314305.htmlRian Johnson was a fan of the prequels. Johnson didn't say this, I believe it was the author of the piece. But I just couldn't let this one go. Johnson's movie helps emphasise the points Lucas tried to make in the prequels: that the Jedi were not all good and that they feared losing power. Just look at the Clone Army, created by the Jedi as a way of keeping what they deemed balance in the galaxy. Or look at Mace Windu almost killing Palpatine outright, without trial. As Anakin says, "It's not the Jedi way!" C'mon, who writes this stuff. The Jedi did not create the clone army to balance the galaxy. Some black bag stuff went to with the name of a dead Jedi to create the army behind their backs.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 30, 2020 1:52:46 GMT
Technological assessment, nothing. But trying to assert "muh fascism", politicizing escapist entertainment, is exactly what's wrong with Hollywood today. And yet its honestly the most accurate yet succinct summation of the prequels I have ever seen. Spot on. And as far as not politicizing entertainment is concerned. Its hard not do it? I mean we live in a political world by and large and while the term 'politics' has a dirty connotation when tied to government or sociology...and rightfully so..that is not all 'politics' is. And its hard to avoid a moral, philosophical, or even a 'political' argument when your subject matter is morality, philosophy, and a huge part of your series deals with the nature of government. 'Political' messages are nothing new for Star Wars. They pretty much do go back to the OT with the evil fascist Empire versus the good guy freedom loving 'libertarian' Rebels. Politics only gets complained about when we have a percieved disliking of the messages proposed by it. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-director-144314305.htmlRian Johnson was a fan of the prequels. Johnson didn't say this, I believe it was the author of the piece. But I just couldn't let this one go. Johnson's movie helps emphasise the points Lucas tried to make in the prequels: that the Jedi were not all good and that they feared losing power. Just look at the Clone Army, created by the Jedi as a way of keeping what they deemed balance in the galaxy. Or look at Mace Windu almost killing Palpatine outright, without trial. As Anakin says, "It's not the Jedi way!" C'mon, who writes this stuff. The Jedi did not create the clone army to balance the galaxy. Some black bag stuff went to with the name of a dead Jedi to create the army behind their backs. The nitty gritty might be wrong and the specific facts but the messaging is largely correct. The 'Jedi' saw the galaxy sliding to darkness so they 'created' and much more accuratley utilized a clone army to try and enforce their will of what balance was on the rest of the galaxy. Other people in here have pointed out that a huge problem for the Jedi was how political they got (there's that word again).
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Post by Iakus on Jun 30, 2020 4:36:35 GMT
Technological assessment, nothing. But trying to assert "muh fascism", politicizing escapist entertainment, is exactly what's wrong with Hollywood today. And yet its honestly the most accurate yet succinct summation of the prequels I have ever seen. Spot on. And as far as not politicizing entertainment is concerned. Its hard not do it? I mean we live in a political world by and large and while the term 'politics' has a dirty connotation when tied to government or sociology...and rightfully so..that is not all 'politics' is. And its hard to avoid a moral, philosophical, or even a 'political' argument when your subject matter is morality, philosophy, and a huge part of your series deals with the nature of government. 'Political' messages are nothing new for Star Wars. They pretty much do go back to the OT with the evil fascist Empire versus the good guy freedom loving 'libertarian' Rebels. Politics only gets complained about when we have a percieved disliking of the messages proposed by it. Bullsh*t. The Empire wasn't any sort of "-ist" It was simply evil. With leaders in black robes and armor. Officers who blew up planets just to make sure their kewl new toy worked, and foot soldiers wearing helmets with skull motifs. It was a simple story of good guys, bad guys, light vs dark. It didn't get any simpler than that.No need to insert politics into it. Crap like that is what divides fans.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 30, 2020 4:41:39 GMT
And yet its honestly the most accurate yet succinct summation of the prequels I have ever seen. Spot on. And as far as not politicizing entertainment is concerned. Its hard not do it? I mean we live in a political world by and large and while the term 'politics' has a dirty connotation when tied to government or sociology...and rightfully so..that is not all 'politics' is. And its hard to avoid a moral, philosophical, or even a 'political' argument when your subject matter is morality, philosophy, and a huge part of your series deals with the nature of government. 'Political' messages are nothing new for Star Wars. They pretty much do go back to the OT with the evil fascist Empire versus the good guy freedom loving 'libertarian' Rebels. Politics only gets complained about when we have a percieved disliking of the messages proposed by it. Bullsh*t. The Empire wasn't any sort of "-ist" It was simply evil. With leaders in black robes and armor. Officers who blew up planets just to make sure their kewl new toy worked, and foot soldiers wearing helmets with skull motifs. It was a simple story of good guys, bad guys, light vs dark. It didn't get any simpler than that.No need to insert politics into it. Crap like that is what divides fans. With respect fans divide fans. And the Nazi imagery especially in the wake of World War 2 was rather obvious and on the nose. Yes, it did boil down as 'simply' a story of good and evil but even those constructs can be viewed in political terms. Again its hard to avoid politics in any fictional entertainment. Everyone has their viewpoint and some people want to put that viewpoint into writing, so this just leaves the message itself and the execution as something worthy of condemnation or not, not the mere fact that politics is invading our entertainment.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 30, 2020 5:11:22 GMT
Bullsh*t. The Empire wasn't any sort of "-ist" It was simply evil. With leaders in black robes and armor. Officers who blew up planets just to make sure their kewl new toy worked, and foot soldiers wearing helmets with skull motifs. It was a simple story of good guys, bad guys, light vs dark. It didn't get any simpler than that.No need to insert politics into it. Crap like that is what divides fans. With respect fans divide fans. And the Nazi imagery especially in the wake of World War 2 A New Hope was released in 1947? I had no idea
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Post by colfoley on Jun 30, 2020 5:13:47 GMT
With respect fans divide fans. And the Nazi imagery especially in the wake of World War 2 A New Hope was released in 1947? I had no idea Deliberate Obtuseness is not really an effective means of argument. Its still close enough to where it had an influence on the filmakers involved.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 30, 2020 5:16:29 GMT
A New Hope was released in 1947? I had no idea Deliberate Obtuseness
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 30, 2020 8:37:07 GMT
The Empire was not only loosely patterned after Nazi Germany but the old Soviet Union too. Lucas filmed a scene between Biggs and Luke detailing the Empire's economic policies that was later cut probably due to issues with the film's pacing and runtime.
"What good's all your uncle's work if the Empire takes it over? You know they've already started to nationalize commerce in the central systems? It won't be long before your uncle's just a tenant slaving away for the greater glory of the Empire." - Biggs Darklighter
Also, more references of Luke's piloting skills.
Back on topic my issue with Ruin's tweet is that he's being a pompous condescending prick (7hr children's movie) and it's obvious. If we want to generalize films then i guess TLJ was a 2.5hr long cinematic abortion about subversion.
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Post by cypherj on Jun 30, 2020 11:56:39 GMT
www.yahoo.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-director-144314305.htmlRian Johnson was a fan of the prequels. Johnson didn't say this, I believe it was the author of the piece. But I just couldn't let this one go. Johnson's movie helps emphasise the points Lucas tried to make in the prequels: that the Jedi were not all good and that they feared losing power. Just look at the Clone Army, created by the Jedi as a way of keeping what they deemed balance in the galaxy. Or look at Mace Windu almost killing Palpatine outright, without trial. As Anakin says, "It's not the Jedi way!" C'mon, who writes this stuff. The Jedi did not create the clone army to balance the galaxy. Some black bag stuff went to with the name of a dead Jedi to create the army behind their backs. The nitty gritty might be wrong and the specific facts but the messaging is largely correct. The 'Jedi' saw the galaxy sliding to darkness so they 'created' and much more accuratley utilized a clone army to try and enforce their will of what balance was on the rest of the galaxy. Other people in here have pointed out that a huge problem for the Jedi was how political they got (there's that word again). The galaxy wasn't sliding to darkness, it was at war. The Jedi said multiple times, they were peacekeepers and not soldiers. That if war broke out there were not enough Jedi to keep peace. So when war broke out and Palpatine created the clone army with Dooku, they led the soldiers into battle. They did it to end a war, not enforce their will, or mold the galaxy into their vision. They weren't just going to sit around and watch the galaxy burn in war. I mean, aside from Luke, the Jedi usually care. They also didn't just chose to be more involved in politics, they were forced to. If the war hadn't broken out they would have never gotten involved in the politics at all. They were pretty much manipulated into everything because they trusted in the laws and government, and had no desire to be involved in politics or running things from the Jedi temple. Then by the time they started noticing things being off about the government, and tried to stop being detached from it, it was too late. Too much stuff was in motion. People act like they one day up and decided to involve themselves in the politics because they wanted more power or something.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 30, 2020 13:15:40 GMT
The nitty gritty might be wrong and the specific facts but the messaging is largely correct. The 'Jedi' saw the galaxy sliding to darkness so they 'created' and much more accuratley utilized a clone army to try and enforce their will of what balance was on the rest of the galaxy. Other people in here have pointed out that a huge problem for the Jedi was how political they got (there's that word again). The galaxy wasn't sliding to darkness, it was at war. The Jedi said multiple times, they were peacekeepers and not soldiers. That if war broke out there were not enough Jedi to keep peace. So when war broke out and Palpatine created the clone army with Dooku, they led the soldiers into battle. They did it to end a war, not enforce their will, or mold the galaxy into their vision. They weren't just going to sit around and watch the galaxy burn in war. I mean, aside from Luke, the Jedi usually care. They also didn't just chose to be more involved in politics, they were forced to. If the war hadn't broken out they would have never gotten involved in the politics at all. They were pretty much manipulated into everything because they trusted in the laws and government, and had no desire to be involved in politics or running things from the Jedi temple. Then by the time they started noticing things being off about the government, and tried to stop being detached from it, it was too late. Too much stuff was in motion. People act like they one day up and decided to involve themselves in the politics because they wanted more power or something. Luke did care. He cared more than Yoda or Obi Wan. Jake, however, was an *sshole who sat around on his butt drinking green unpasteurized milk as the galaxy burned.
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Post by mybudgee on Jun 30, 2020 16:17:50 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on Jul 1, 2020 0:29:47 GMT
A New Hope was released in 1947? I had no idea Deliberate Obtuseness
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Post by masterwarderz on Jul 1, 2020 0:43:14 GMT
The nitty gritty might be wrong and the specific facts but the messaging is largely correct. The 'Jedi' saw the galaxy sliding to darkness so they 'created' and much more accuratley utilized a clone army to try and enforce their will of what balance was on the rest of the galaxy. Other people in here have pointed out that a huge problem for the Jedi was how political they got (there's that word again). they led the soldiers into battle. They led a slave army into battle you mean. ._. At least in the EU some of em owned it most however just didn't think about it, they were provided troops, some didn't even understand they weren't just droids who looked human, that they weren't programmed to follow orders and then you had some like Vos for example: He legitimately never viewed Clones as people, they were just basically akin to Droids to him. o.o Point is, the Jedi at all involving themselves in the moral quagmire of this conflict proved just how they had fallen from the days of the Old Republic
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 1, 2020 0:50:11 GMT
I love Quinlan Vos Here's hoping the geniuses at Lucasfilm re-canonize him a la Thrawn
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Post by masterwarderz on Jul 1, 2020 0:58:19 GMT
I love Quinlan Vos Here's hoping the geniuses at Lucasfilm re-canonize him a la Thrawn He is canon He's part of the same trashy romance novel that completed the ruination of Asajj So... Rejoice?
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 1, 2020 1:54:35 GMT
I love Quinlan Vos Here's hoping the geniuses at Lucasfilm re-canonize him a la Thrawn He is canon He's part of the same trashy romance novel that completed the ruination of Asajj So... Rejoice? I miss pre retcon Ventress whose barely restrained sexual tension with Kenobi had inspired my friend to create a fanfic that was fortunately lost, and pre retcon Grievous who was intimidating, and wasn't a chronic jobber.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 1, 2020 4:09:03 GMT
The nitty gritty might be wrong and the specific facts but the messaging is largely correct. The 'Jedi' saw the galaxy sliding to darkness so they 'created' and much more accuratley utilized a clone army to try and enforce their will of what balance was on the rest of the galaxy. Other people in here have pointed out that a huge problem for the Jedi was how political they got (there's that word again). The galaxy wasn't sliding to darkness, it was at war. The Jedi said multiple times, they were peacekeepers and not soldiers. That if war broke out there were not enough Jedi to keep peace. So when war broke out and Palpatine created the clone army with Dooku, they led the soldiers into battle. They did it to end a war, not enforce their will, or mold the galaxy into their vision. They weren't just going to sit around and watch the galaxy burn in war. I mean, aside from Luke, the Jedi usually care. They also didn't just chose to be more involved in politics, they were forced to. If the war hadn't broken out they would have never gotten involved in the politics at all. They were pretty much manipulated into everything because they trusted in the laws and government, and had no desire to be involved in politics or running things from the Jedi temple. Then by the time they started noticing things being off about the government, and tried to stop being detached from it, it was too late. Too much stuff was in motion. People act like they one day up and decided to involve themselves in the politics because they wanted more power or something. I never said they weren't manipulated but the mere fact that they WERE manipulated suggests they had weaknesses that Palpatine was able to exploit: -In Revenge of the Sith Obi-Wan Kenobi chastised Anakin when the latter expressed concern in his mission to spy on the chancellor...itself a sketc mission in the first place...he did so by pointing out 'Anakin our alleigance is not to the Chancellor but to the Senate'...erm how about your allegiance be to the Will of the Force like it should be? -Both Palpatine and Yoda commented on how arrogant the Jedi had become...though in the latter's case he was not exactly immune from that. -During the final arc of the Clone Wars, before they brought the show back for one final season, Yoda's arc in it was to deal with his own internal darkness and corruption and the arrogance of him denying the internal struggle within himself rather then just addressing it. -And while the Jedi were certainly supposed to be peacekeepers, not soldiers, they became Generals in the war and led troops into battle representing the Galactic Republic, not the Will of the Force. This point was pointed out in the Clone Wars and the increduity of it by many in the Order, but usually by Ahsoka...which is why she left the Order in the firstplace. -And while this is mostly a ledgends thing...the Jedi haven't always been that eager to start fighting in interstellar wars. The Clone Wars, Yuuzhan Vong conflict, and Mandalorian Wars all had the Jedi...to varying degrees go...'uh maybe getting involved in this conflict is a bad thing and we should be cautious'...which each one of those conflicts had various numbers of Jedi Knights fall to the dark side as an active result of the conflict. - And in general while the Order had some great ideals...they weren't practicing anything of what they preached during the Clone Wars. All this leads me to conclude that the Jedi,while nominally the 'good guys' (at least better then the Sith) they were still corrupted from their ideal. In so much that they stopped focusing on their primary objectives of maintaining balance in the Force, and the peace and justice of the galaxy, and become a special investigative division of the Republic subject to their will...and eventually commanders and soldiers duringthe Clone Wars. Combined with their other philosophical and emotional blindness at the time it is telling that the Force's Chosen One started off with his efforts to balance the Force by cutting them down to size.
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