Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,093 Likes: 49,943
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,943
Iakus
21,093
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 3, 2021 17:30:00 GMT
Relax, Ani! The wrap will keep the sand out. Probably. When you realize he was probably lying in volcanic sand during that scene...
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,552
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,552
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 3, 2021 17:50:22 GMT
Tripped over this. They're... very generous to the movies in my opinion, and read a bunch into a couple of scenes that I definitely don't think the script or the actors support in the slightest, but some of their observations about Kylo and Adam Driver's acting - especially in TFA, before things went completely off the rails - are fairly interesting and insightful. The idea that the Han Solo we knew from the original trilogy would have had trouble connecting with a very sensitive young son gels pretty well with my own understanding of him. Han is awesome, but his communication strategies mostly seem to swing between bluntly stating the truth even when it's totally inappropriate and joking around no matter how serious you're trying to be with him. If Ben was already struggling with serious mental issues as a youth - which is the only thing that would even remotely help his character make sense - then a determined and always optimistic wise-cracking street smart larger-than-life macho man war hero dad wouldn't be an easy thing to grow up with. It'd also make sense for Leia make an executive decision and push for Luke to step in like she did if her son was unraveling and her husband didn't know how to deal with it. And for Ben to feel utterly rejected by his dad and betrayed by his mother at the decision for that matter, while at the same time latching on to Luke as a more patient and sensitive guardian and mentor who was better equipped to try to understand him, even though no amount of meditation or Jedi philosophy will obviously fix Ben's schizophrenia or whatever. I mean, there's potential there. Ben Solo's story could definitely have been worth telling if things had been different from The Last Jedi and forward. I also totally disagree that Kylo's unpredictable aggression makes him scarier than Vader. Maybe he would be if he was standing in the room with you, but not as a villain on a screen acting like an idiot in front of his flunkies because the 'heroes' escaped him. That just makes him look immature and ineffectual. When you realize he was probably lying in volcanic sand during that scene... Indeed. Little known fact: Anakin Skywalker actually enjoys being on fire. It's the realization that the volcanic ash his burning flesh is rubbing against contains silicone that starts him screaming and thrashing in that scene. That was also why he hid his "wayfinder" in a nearby weird desert/forest environment later seen in Rise of Skywalker. He was so sure nobody would be masochistic enough to look for it there.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,515
Hier0phant
3,859
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Mar 4, 2021 3:54:50 GMT
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,555
Hanako Ikezawa
22,979
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2021 4:19:05 GMT
Now we know the real reason Vader threw Palpatine down the shaft.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 6, 2021 16:26:48 GMT
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 6, 2021 17:30:18 GMT
This is just getting sad now.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,555
Hanako Ikezawa
22,979
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 6, 2021 21:02:51 GMT
This is just getting sad now. What does the video say? I’m not clicking it.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 6, 2021 21:52:01 GMT
This is just getting sad now. What does the video say? I’m not clicking it. Basically it's just another one of the High Republic's video displaying one of the characters who is a literal rock. There's unique features, just a plain old slab that somehow talks.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,093 Likes: 49,943
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,943
Iakus
21,093
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 7, 2021 1:42:43 GMT
This is just getting sad now. Luke, Han, and Leia died to make way for this sh*t?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,552
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,552
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 7, 2021 2:58:33 GMT
Personally, I'd say it's not even that a Han Soloish rogue smuggler type with a rock as a navigator couldn't make for great characters. The problem is that any and all trust that the writers are going to do something worthwhile with them has long since been totally squandered.
|
|
inherit
ღ Too witty for a title
6261
0
Aug 12, 2023 11:35:22 GMT
8,655
decafhigh
3,011
March 2017
decafhigh
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by decafhigh on Mar 7, 2021 12:55:14 GMT
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 7, 2021 15:12:29 GMT
Personally, I'd say it's not even that a Han Soloish rogue smuggler type with a rock as a navigator couldn't make for great characters. The problem is that any and all trust that the writers are going to do something worthwhile with them has long since been totally squandered. Especially when said rock characters design is so lazy and uninspired which is the anthithesis of Star Wars. Marvel had a similar rock companion but they put effort into the design and character even the jokes are funny.
|
|
inherit
11346
0
1,440
skekSil
1,202
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Mar 7, 2021 22:51:30 GMT
Ok, lets fight:
Rian Johnson > JJ Abrams Hyperspace ramming > lightspeed skipping
|
|
inherit
299
0
Member is Online
6,155
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,567
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 8, 2021 0:18:46 GMT
The hyperspace ramming was one of the coolest things to come out of Last Jedi, IMO, regardless of its implications. lol
Rian's still much less pleasant than Abrams, though.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,555
Hanako Ikezawa
22,979
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 8, 2021 0:31:36 GMT
The hyperspace ramming was one of the coolest things to come out of Last Jedi, IMO, regardless of its implications. lol It's hardly the first time it's happened in the franchise anyway. For example both Clone Wars series have examples.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,487
smilesja
14,326
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 8, 2021 1:57:23 GMT
Ok, lets fight: Rian Johnson > JJ Abrams Hyperspace ramming > lightspeed skipping
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,552
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,552
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 8, 2021 2:12:00 GMT
It's hardly the first time it's happened in the franchise anyway. For example both Clone Wars series have examples. Elaborate? A cursory google search doesn't turn anything up, and if this is true then I wonder why it's not a more common counterargument. Or are you just talking about ramming in general? Totally with you that it's a gorgeous visual, and one of the cooler scenes in the franchise. I still maintain that the sequel trilogy is by far the most stylish and best-looking of any of the movies. Doesn't count for that much compared to the garbage writing, but it does at least help it go down. Abrams over Johnson, no question. And lightspeed skipping over hyperspace ramming because the latter completely ruined space battles in general, and the former only had to happen in the first place because of Johnson's dumbass hyperspace tracking. Albeit J.J. didn't exactly help his own case by miniaturizing the technology and installing it on individual TIE fighters for no reason.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,555
Hanako Ikezawa
22,979
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 8, 2021 2:48:25 GMT
It's hardly the first time it's happened in the franchise anyway. For example both Clone Wars series have examples. Elaborate? A cursory google search doesn't turn anything up, and if this is true then I wonder why it's not a more common counterargument. Or are you just talking about ramming in general? Totally with you that it's a gorgeous visual, and one of the cooler scenes in the franchise. I still maintain that the sequel trilogy is by far the most stylish and best-looking of any of the movies. Doesn't count for that much compared to the garbage writing, but it does at least help it go down. The example I always think of is the Malevolence. According to Filoni, it went into hyperspace before hitting the moon, completely destroying the ship but leaving barely a mark on the moon. Considering how massive the Malevolence was, that shows that there are limits to the effectiveness of hyperspace ramming even if you manage to hit. My guess why it isn’t used as a more common counterargument is because it is a hard to find comment and it wasn’t against ships (or even on purpose). Ramming in general is well-established. In the 2003 series we see CIS dreadnoughts come out of hyperspace and ram Venators destroying them but not the CIS ship. And of course Analin using a Venator to ram the blockade after pretending to surrender (got to love war crimes) and the Hammerhead ramming one Star Destroyer into another or Vader’s Star Destroyer shredding Rebel ships after it came out of hyperspace. Agree on it being a gorgeous shot. I’ve said it before, but I think TLJ is easily the prettiest Star Wars film. The hyperspace ram, Kylo and the First Order walking into the Rebel base from above, and so many more.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,093 Likes: 49,943
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,943
Iakus
21,093
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 8, 2021 14:32:39 GMT
Ok, lets fight: Rian Johnson > JJ Abrams Hyperspace ramming > lightspeed skipping I give JJ points for at least being a fan of Star Wars, even if he is utterly lacking in creativity. Rian, I suspect actively hates Lucas's Star Wars.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,552
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,552
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 8, 2021 15:27:00 GMT
The example I always think of is the Malevolence. According to Filoni, it went into hyperspace before hitting the moon, completely destroying the ship but leaving barely a mark on the moon. Considering how massive the Malevolence was, that shows that there are limits to the effectiveness of hyperspace ramming even if you manage to hit. My guess why it isn’t used as a more common counterargument is because it is a hard to find comment and it wasn’t against ships (or even on purpose). Ramming in general is well-established. In the 2003 series we see CIS dreadnoughts come out of hyperspace and ram Venators destroying them but not the CIS ship. And of course Analin using a Venator to ram the blockade after pretending to surrender (got to love war crimes) and the Hammerhead ramming one Star Destroyer into another or Vader’s Star Destroyer shredding Rebel ships after it came out of hyperspace. Agree on it being a gorgeous shot. I’ve said it before, but I think TLJ is easily the prettiest Star Wars film. The hyperspace ram, Kylo and the First Order walking into the Rebel base from above, and so many more. Okay, that doesn't quite sound like the same thing. Having now seen the scene with the Malevolence, that explosion would definitely have caused extinction-level destruction on any inhabited planet and absolutely destroyed any manmade object no matter how big with a direct hit. It proves that a ship ramming a planet at hyperspeed wouldn't tear the planet to pieces, but that's about it. Shooting completely from the hip here, I feel like something like Starkiller Base might have survived that hit, but sure as hell not while remaining functional. And either Death Star would have been shattered and rendered totally unworkable by the impact, let alone something like a Star Destroyer. They're not just solid lumps of rock like a moon is, they're high-tech machinery made out of sheets of material welded and held together with screws and bolts which will easily come apart under extreme enough force. Same reason Finn's strategy of ramming a molten slag heap down the throat of a high-tech laser canon had a pretty reasonable chance of messing it up somehow despite the size difference. Machines break, and complicated machines break more easily. So I don't see that that example really does anything to help the issues caused by the Holdo Maneuver in TLJ. Though that one moment with a stressed-out Grievous remotely trying to give tech support to his idiotic droids while Dooku is hounding him on the phone is pretty priceless. And meh, the term "war crime" loses a bit of its edge when the victims are 99,99% glorified toasters commissioned specifically to be expendable combatants. But yeah, someone might have poked Anakin in the shoulder and gone "General Skywalker? Have you, uh, thought about what might happen the next time we lose a battle and some of our forces end up having to actually surrender?" My personal favorites are Poe's rampage across the Dreadnaught at the beginning of TLJ, and especially his and Finn's escape in TFA. All silliness and tomfoolery in the story aside, those scenes look amazing, much better than the larger-scale space battles or the more overtly artistic set-pieces. I doubt it's a coincidence that each movie in the trilogy more or less starts with an intense star fighter chase to try to really set the Star Wars mood. And it certainly worked on me in TFA, and to a lesser extent in TLJ.... and then TRoS just went too gaudy with the ice castles and hyperspace skipping.
|
|
inherit
ღ Too witty for a title
6261
0
Aug 12, 2023 11:35:22 GMT
8,655
decafhigh
3,011
March 2017
decafhigh
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by decafhigh on Mar 8, 2021 15:28:41 GMT
I give JJ points for at least being a fan of Star Wars Meh, I doubt the authenticity of that. /shrug Rian > JJ because Rian helped ruin only one franchise. JJ ruined Star Trek, then Star Wars, and now is set to ruin Superman/DC. The man is a plague.
|
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,271
AnDromedary
4,444
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Mar 8, 2021 19:02:18 GMT
The example I always think of is the Malevolence. According to Filoni, it went into hyperspace before hitting the moon, completely destroying the ship but leaving barely a mark on the moon. Considering how massive the Malevolence was, that shows that there are limits to the effectiveness of hyperspace ramming even if you manage to hit. My guess why it isn’t used as a more common counterargument is because it is a hard to find comment and it wasn’t against ships (or even on purpose). Ramming in general is well-established. In the 2003 series we see CIS dreadnoughts come out of hyperspace and ram Venators destroying them but not the CIS ship. And of course Analin using a Venator to ram the blockade after pretending to surrender (got to love war crimes) and the Hammerhead ramming one Star Destroyer into another or Vader’s Star Destroyer shredding Rebel ships after it came out of hyperspace. Agree on it being a gorgeous shot. I’ve said it before, but I think TLJ is easily the prettiest Star Wars film. The hyperspace ram, Kylo and the First Order walking into the Rebel base from above, and so many more. Okay, that doesn't quite sound like the same thing. Having now seen the scene with the Malevolence, that explosion would definitely have caused extinction-level destruction on any inhabited planet and absolutely destroyed any manmade object no matter how big with a direct hit. It proves that a ship ramming a planet at hyperspeed wouldn't tear the planet to pieces, but that's about it. Shooting completely from the hip here, I feel like something like Starkiller Base might have survived that hit, but sure as hell not while remaining functional. And either Death Star would have been shattered and rendered totally unworkable by the impact, let alone something like a Star Destroyer. They're not just solid lumps of rock like a moon is, they're high-tech machinery made out of sheets of material welded and held together with screws and bolts which will easily come apart under extreme enough force. Same reason Finn's strategy of ramming a molten slag heap down the throat of a high-tech laser canon had a pretty reasonable chance of messing it up somehow despite the size difference. Machines break, and complicated machines break more easily. So I don't see that that example really does anything to help the issues caused by the Holdo Maneuver in TLJ. Though that one moment with a stressed-out Grievous remotely trying to give tech support to his idiotic droids while Dooku is hounding him on the phone is pretty priceless. And meh, the term "war crime" loses a bit of its edge when the victims are 99,99% glorified toasters commissioned specifically to be expendable combatants. But yeah, someone might have poked Anakin in the shoulder and gone "General Skywalker? Have you, uh, thought about what might happen the next time we lose a battle and some of our forces end up having to actually surrender?" My personal favorites are Poe's rampage across the Dreadnaught at the beginning of TLJ, and especially his and Finn's escape in TFA. All silliness and tomfoolery in the story aside, those scenes look amazing, much better than the larger-scale space battles or the more overtly artistic set-pieces. I doubt it's a coincidence that each movie in the trilogy more or less starts with an intense star fighter chase to try to really set the Star Wars mood. And it certainly worked on me in TFA, and to a lesser extent in TLJ.... and then TRoS just went too gaudy with the ice castles and hyperspace skipping. Forgive me for jumping in and probably asking a stupid question here but I never quite understood why the Holdo maneuver in TLJ is always mentioned as that unforgivable retcon that breaks all Star Wars lore. Doesn't that inconsistency already exist since Episode 4? I mean, Han Solo already acknowledges that objects in hyperspace and normal space interact when he tells Luke that it's imperative to properly calculate your course before going into hyperspace. "Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" I know it's not spelled out but the entire issue is kinda implied in that statement and you'd already have to do some pretty weird mental gymnastics to get to a point where ships in hyperspace are destroyed by a collision but objects in normal space are completely unaffected.
So why is TLJ at fault here and not the original movie?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,016 Likes: 3,552
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,552
Noxluxe
2,016
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 8, 2021 19:51:58 GMT
Forgive me for jumping in and probably asking a stupid question here but I never quite understood why the Holdo maneuver in TLJ is always mentioned as that unforgivable retcon that breaks all Star Wars lore. Doesn't that inconsistency already exist since Episode 4? I mean, Han Solo already acknowledges that objects in hyperspace and normal space interact when he tells Luke that it's imperative to properly calculate your course before going into hyperspace. "Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" I know it's not spelled out but the entire issue is kinda implied in that statement and you'd already have to do some pretty weird mental gymnastics to get to a point where ships in hyperspace are destroyed by a collision but objects in normal space are completely unaffected. So why is TLJ at fault here and not the original movie?
It's not a stupid question, because people seem to have a lot of trouble keeping these concepts apart. The problem with hyperspace ramming in TLJ isn't that it seems weird or illogical given the supposed physics of the Star Wars universe - because it doesn't, it's essentially just using the ships as bullets. The problem is that introducing it as a thing that can be done effectively thirty-five years into the franchise makes all the dramatic and intense space battles whose overall logic relied on it distinctly not being a possibility for either side, regardless of the specific in-universe reason, pretty senseless in retrospect. For example, the Rebel flagship commanders in Return of the Jedi are now logically cowards for not just ramming their huge ships into the second Death Star to destroy it instantly and for sure as soon as the shields fell, instead of sending Han and Chewbacca to blow it up from the inside and potentially fail just to save their own hides. The freedom of the galaxy was at stake, after all, and it would only take one almost-empty hanger ship to end the war in a moment. You can definitely make the argument that the original trilogy could have featured hyperspace ramming, and had stuff like ships built specifically for the purpose and entire battle strategies revolving around both sides trying to use and defend themselves from the strategy, and that not doing so was illogical from a physics perspective and a missed opportunity dramatically. That's a totally valid criticism of the way Star Wars originally handled the issue. There would also be counters to that argument, such as special effects limitations, and that's all it's own discussion. But that doesn't change that by The Last Jedi, seven preceding movies' plots and logic rely on it not being a thing, and suddenly making it a thing sabotages their internal consistencies in hindsight. That was a deliberate or careless choice Ryan Johnson made, to sacrifice the internal logical consistency of most or all previous space battles in the franchise in order to have his cool scene with Holdo. And him making that choice and hugely complicating future space battles as well just to have his own little baby in his movie is what people have an issue with. ...At least, that's my understanding of the whole situation.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,555
Hanako Ikezawa
22,979
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 8, 2021 20:08:00 GMT
The example I always think of is the Malevolence. According to Filoni, it went into hyperspace before hitting the moon, completely destroying the ship but leaving barely a mark on the moon. Considering how massive the Malevolence was, that shows that there are limits to the effectiveness of hyperspace ramming even if you manage to hit. My guess why it isn’t used as a more common counterargument is because it is a hard to find comment and it wasn’t against ships (or even on purpose). Ramming in general is well-established. In the 2003 series we see CIS dreadnoughts come out of hyperspace and ram Venators destroying them but not the CIS ship. And of course Analin using a Venator to ram the blockade after pretending to surrender (got to love war crimes) and the Hammerhead ramming one Star Destroyer into another or Vader’s Star Destroyer shredding Rebel ships after it came out of hyperspace. Agree on it being a gorgeous shot. I’ve said it before, but I think TLJ is easily the prettiest Star Wars film. The hyperspace ram, Kylo and the First Order walking into the Rebel base from above, and so many more. Okay, that doesn't quite sound like the same thing. Having now seen the scene with the Malevolence, that explosion would definitely have caused extinction-level destruction on any inhabited planet and absolutely destroyed any manmade object no matter how big with a direct hit. It proves that a ship ramming a planet at hyperspeed wouldn't tear the planet to pieces, but that's about it. Shooting completely from the hip here, I feel like something like Starkiller Base might have survived that hit, but sure as hell not while remaining functional. And either Death Star would have been shattered and rendered totally unworkable by the impact, let alone something like a Star Destroyer. They're not just solid lumps of rock like a moon is, they're high-tech machinery made out of sheets of material welded and held together with screws and bolts which will easily come apart under extreme enough force. Same reason Finn's strategy of ramming a molten slag heap down the throat of a high-tech laser canon had a pretty reasonable chance of messing it up somehow despite the size difference. Machines break, and complicated machines break more easily. So I don't see that that example really does anything to help the issues caused by the Holdo Maneuver in TLJ. Though that one moment with a stressed-out Grievous remotely trying to give tech support to his idiotic droids while Dooku is hounding him on the phone is pretty priceless. And meh, the term "war crime" loses a bit of its edge when the victims are 99,99% glorified toasters commissioned specifically to be expendable combatants. But yeah, someone might have poked Anakin in the shoulder and gone "General Skywalker? Have you, uh, thought about what might happen the next time we lose a battle and some of our forces end up having to actually surrender?" My personal favorites are Poe's rampage across the Dreadnaught at the beginning of TLJ, and especially his and Finn's escape in TFA. All silliness and tomfoolery in the story aside, those scenes look amazing, much better than the larger-scale space battles or the more overtly artistic set-pieces. I doubt it's a coincidence that each movie in the trilogy more or less starts with an intense star fighter chase to try to really set the Star Wars mood. And it certainly worked on me in TFA, and to a lesser extent in TLJ.... and then TRoS just went too gaudy with the ice castles and hyperspace skipping. You have to remember the size and mass of the ship being used. The Raddus was over three kilometers, the largest ship the good guys ever had, and the Malevolence dwarfs that being nearly five kilometers. For either Death Star, the Rebels didn't have this as an option. In the first Death Star's case, all they had were fighters. In the second Death Star's case, that leads to another problem: shielding. The Rebel fleet had to pull away because the shield around the Death Star was strong enough to repel them, similar to the shield we see the X-Wings explode and bounce off in Rogue One. If they tried ramming it, most likely the explosion would have been on the shield while the Death Star itself was fine. We've seen this kind of thing throughout the saga. Otherwise any hyperspace travel is a death sentence since a grain of dust or a small meteor will cause any ship to e ripped apart during travel. Not to mention the Rebels/Resistance don't exactly have many ships to spare. Also yeah that scene is great. I loved the Malevolence arc, the Star Wars's Bismark. Side note, I do think the movie would have been better if Finn actually did that. Not that I wanted Finn gone or anything, but it would have been a great character arc going from someone who is willing to abandon everyone else just to save himself to sacrificing himself to saving everyone. The war crime it was more just a joke, though those videos pointing out how the Star Wars universe really needs some sort of Geneva Convention since each movie or season have so many examples on both sides but surprising more of the "heroes" were interesting. And heck, Anakin wasn't the first one to do it. The first being Obi-Wan in the TCW pilot movie. Yeah those scenes were great too. Hyperspace skipping bugs me more than the hyperspeed ramming. The latter is just science but has many factors making it next to impossible and very impractical from shielding to mass to getting the jump just right (too soon you fly right past them, too late you're just doing sublight ramming), etc. The former meanwhile goes against the lore a bit more, since everything before it establishes that hyperspace is more a web, hence why you need to go to certain points to jump which is why you can blockade a planet by just blockading that jump point. Now sure it could be a case of it's not something you can't do but something you shouldn't do for a number of reasons (dangers in hyperspace, damage to things around you, etc) but yeah Poe's Maneuver is worse than Holdo's Maneuver.
|
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,271
AnDromedary
4,444
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Mar 8, 2021 20:13:19 GMT
Ok, so it boils down to: "They never did it, even though they should have. So there must be some reason why they never did but we (the audience) just never have been told the reason." And that's the concept TLJ ripped apart (quite literally ). Gotcha. I guess that makes sense. Thanks.
|
|