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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Apr 22, 2021 18:46:17 GMT
"In TESB Vader throws stuff at Luke and Luke is unable to defend against it, why didnt Vader use the same trick against Kenobi in ANH?"-- SkekSil
Because in ANH, Lucas wanted the fights to be very old fashioned swordplay...harkening back to the old televisions adventure serials he used to watch as a kid, like The Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn....But in Empire Strikes back, Lucas himself justified that (Luke) had felt that his training at that point had progressed to the point where he could have a chance at standing toe-to-toe with the likes of Vader. As far as Luke was concerned, Vader was his arch enemy; the man who murdered his father, and so he was going to fight with everything he had. Also, from a choreography stand point...as the movies progressed from ANH to ESB to ROTJ, GL wanted the fights to become faster, more fluent.......And if you watch carefully, there is a progression of skill and a betterment in the choreography across all three original movies.
It's stated in the documentary Empire of Dreams.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2021 18:58:12 GMT
well if a spec of dust is a bigger boom than an atomic bomb, what would an X wing do?
I still dont understand why you think flying at FTL makes "a spec of dust a bigger boom than an atomic bomb" F=MA. While the mass is super small, the extreme acceleration makes it hit even harder than something with larger mass going slower. Though in Star Wars there are shields designed specifically for that, hence why the Millennium Falcon isn't disintegrated when hit by that first asteroid despite going as fast as they could to evade the Empire. Meanwhile if the mass is large enough plus acceleration the shields fail, like the Star Destroyer whose bridge was crushed by another asteroid. Another example is the shield around the second Death Star (and later Starkiller Base) that are powerful enough to stop practically anything.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 20:17:18 GMT
well if a spec of dust is a bigger boom than an atomic bomb, what would an X wing do?
I still dont understand why you think flying at FTL makes "a spec of dust a bigger boom than an atomic bomb" Do you need every technical detail to be explained to you to enjoy it? Do you know how lightsabers work? Or hovercraft? O artificial gravity? Or why there is a monster in trash compactor? IN A TRASH COMPACTOR!!! Are force ghosts using the force to show themselves? Is that confirmed? I dont think it is, and walking and sitting on a log is different than using the force to set a tree on fire. Well I have already pointed out that he also moves some lianas in that scene so he can influence world of living. Furthermore if he is sitting on a rock and not sliding down from it means he has friction with it. Therefore he can, theoretically, convert energy of latteral motions of his buttcheeks against a flamable object into a heat energy i.e. fire. Maybe someone did. How would you know? In TESB Vader throws stuff at Luke and Luke is unable to defend against it, why didnt Vader use the same trick against Kenobi in ANH? You can look up yourself what would happen if something as small as dust hit something moving FTL what would happen. Do I need to know how FTL actually works in movies? No, but when you are fuckin with already established lore then yeah I will need to know why they didn't use an x wing to destroy the death star. I watched the scene, and you could say he moved it, I could say the wind moved it or I could say that as a force ghost maybe he is now the wind, but its completely up in the air as to what actually moved them, it looks like he did move them if I am being honest but it isn't 100% confirmed, like I was saying about ambiguity its not confirmed, but you know what is now confirmed? That force ghosts can use lightning. There is no ambiguity anymore. No one ever questioned why Obi Wan did because it wasn't 100% confirmed that force ghosts can interact with the real, if they did ask it in the past then one could make the argument that force ghosts cant interact with the real world again it wasn't 100% confirmed it was more an up in the air question that could be debated. In the last garbage fest they 100% confirmed it, do you see a pattern here? I have a problem with making it CONFIRMED! The last point you make I have no defense for Vader did move things and use the trick on Obi Wan.................OH WAIT HE WASNT A FORCE GHOST!
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Post by skekSil on Apr 22, 2021 20:22:36 GMT
F=MA. While the mass is super small, the extreme acceleration makes it hit even harder than something with larger mass going slower. Important words here are Faster Than Light. What acceleration or mass does a spec of dust have when its flying in Star Wars FTL?
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 22, 2021 20:29:35 GMT
Yes, you were wrong. For example The Emoji Movie came out the same year. Alright, I was going to look into this to see if I could formulate a rebuttal, but the sheer insidiousness of the Emoji Movie does warrant consideration. That said, TLJ presents some grave implications for a lot of things in the Star Wars universe as a whole. Even something as simple as the Holdo Maneuver has ruined space battles forever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 20:32:20 GMT
Yes, you were wrong. For example The Emoji Movie came out the same year. Alright, I was going to look into this to see if I could formulate a rebuttal, but the sheer insidiousness of the Emoji Movie does warrant consideration. That said, TLJ presents some grave implications for a lot of things in the Star Wars universe as a whole. Even something as simple as the Holdo Maneuver has ruined space battles forever.
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Post by skekSil on Apr 22, 2021 20:46:40 GMT
You can look up yourself what would happen if something as small as dust hit something moving FTL what would happen. Look up where? There are no sources on what happens at faster than light speeds. Do I need to know how FTL actually works in movies? No, but when you are fuckin with already established lore then yeah I will need to know why they didn't use an x wing to destroy the death star. When TLJ was released only canon works were 6 original + 2 Disney movies. Show me a dialog or ascene from these movies that contradict hyperspace ramming. I have a problem with making it CONFIRMED! Well I dont see a problem with it.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2021 20:50:54 GMT
I still dont understand why you think flying at FTL makes "a spec of dust a bigger boom than an atomic bomb" F=MA. While the mass is super small, the extreme acceleration makes it hit even harder than something with larger mass going slower. Though in Star Wars there are shields designed specifically for that, hence why the Millennium Falcon isn't disintegrated when hit by that first asteroid despite going as fast as they could to evade the Empire. Meanwhile if the mass is large enough plus acceleration the shields fail, like the Star Destroyer whose bridge was crushed by another asteroid. Another example is the shield around the second Death Star (and later Starkiller Base) that are powerful enough to stop practically anything.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2021 20:54:26 GMT
F=MA. While the mass is super small, the extreme acceleration makes it hit even harder than something with larger mass going slower. Important words here are Faster Than Light. What acceleration or mass does a spec of dust have when its flying in Star Wars FTL? They can't. Ships are limited to lightspeed in normal space. but with a hyperdrive, they can enter hyperspace, a dimension where they can travel much much faster, thus travelling to systems in hours or days rather than years or centuries.
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Post by skekSil on Apr 22, 2021 20:55:28 GMT
Even something as simple as the Holdo Maneuver has ruined space battles forever. Remember when it was impossible to counter Picard manuever and that changed Star Trek battle tactics forever? Me neither.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 20:57:55 GMT
You can look up yourself what would happen if something as small as dust hit something moving FTL what would happen. Look up where? There are no sources on what happens at faster than light speeds. Do I need to know how FTL actually works in movies? No, but when you are fuckin with already established lore then yeah I will need to know why they didn't use an x wing to destroy the death star. When TLJ was released only canon works were 6 original + 2 Disney movies. Show me a dialog or ascene from these movies that contradict hyperspace ramming. I have a problem with making it CONFIRMED! Well I dont see a problem with it. Just because you dont see a problem doesnt mean it isnt a problem, im talking objectively, your opinion is subjective, its a problem.
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Post by skekSil on Apr 22, 2021 21:06:36 GMT
Just because you dont see a problem doesnt mean it isnt a problem, im talking objectively, your opinion is subjective, its a problem. Just because you think there is a problem doesnt mean there is actually a problem. You are giving your opinion they are always subjective.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 21:12:46 GMT
Just because you dont see a problem doesnt mean it isnt a problem, im talking objectively, your opinion is subjective, its a problem. Just because you think there is a problem doesnt mean there is actually a problem. You are giving your opinion they are always subjective. I am not talking subjectively, I just went through with you that you could make the argument that the wind moved that shit in return of the Jedi, it wasnt confirmed that he actually moved it, in the last abortion it is 100% confirmed Yoda used lightning to set the jedi tree temple on fire, see a difference?
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Post by skekSil on Apr 22, 2021 21:16:20 GMT
I am not talking subjectively, I just went through with you that you could make the argument that the wind moved that shit in return of the Jedi, it wasnt confirmed that he actually moved it, in the last abortion it is 100% confirmed Yoda used lightning to set the jedi tree temple on fire, see a difference? Oh yeu were talking about that. I meant that I see no problem if force ghosts can set a tree on fire with lightning.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2021 21:23:17 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2021 21:29:51 GMT
Luke is the shortened English version of the Latin name Lucas (George Lucas), which itself is short for Lucius which means "the bright one" (the Chosen One) or "the one born at dawn" (boy did love suns near horizons).
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2021 21:34:00 GMT
Luke is the shortened English version of the Latin name Lucas (George Lucas), which itself is short for Lucius which means "the bright one" (the Chosen One) or "the one born at dawn" (boy did love suns near horizons). Ever read the comic for "The Star Wars", based on an earlier draft of what would become A New Hope? Luke Skywalker was a somewhat different character:
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Post by smilesja on Apr 23, 2021 1:48:02 GMT
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Post by rewindbutton on Apr 23, 2021 6:35:50 GMT
This isn't aimed at any particular post, but rather at the topic of physics in general: I would argue that Star Wars is fictional, so the rules of physics do not apply. If they would however, then at least apply them correctly. Newton's laws don't work when approaching the speed of light, because in Special Relativity mass is relativistic. This means, that something we assume constant -like mass- is in fact not. Therefore, in Special Relativity relativistic mass γ γ = 1/Square root of√(1 − v2/c2) If speed v approaches speed of light c, then the relativistic mass approaches infinite. So a spec of dust moving at speed of light would have the mass of the entire universe. Short version here: Mass, Energy, the Speed of LightLong version: Study Einstein's theories and Special Relativity [Disclaimer: Requires a curious mind]
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Post by veganzombiebeerfish on Apr 23, 2021 12:32:13 GMT
Just because you think there is a problem doesnt mean there is actually a problem. You are giving your opinion they are always subjective. I am not talking subjectively, I just went through with you that you could make the argument that the wind moved that shit in return of the Jedi, it wasnt confirmed that he actually moved it, in the last abortion it is 100% confirmed Yoda used lightning to set the jedi tree temple on fire, see a difference? Why the hate for the Last Jedi? Objectively it's the one movie in the franchise that brings the story full circle and completes the story arcs. That it also is the best movie in terms of gender equity and female empowerment is really just icing on the top of the cake. The characterization is just incredibly good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 13:51:44 GMT
I am not talking subjectively, I just went through with you that you could make the argument that the wind moved that shit in return of the Jedi, it wasnt confirmed that he actually moved it, in the last abortion it is 100% confirmed Yoda used lightning to set the jedi tree temple on fire, see a difference? Why the hate for the Last Jedi? Objectively it's the one movie in the franchise that brings the story full circle and completes the story arcs. That it also is the best movie in terms of gender equity and female empowerment is really just icing on the top of the cake. The characterization is just incredibly good.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 23, 2021 15:15:55 GMT
I am not talking subjectively, I just went through with you that you could make the argument that the wind moved that shit in return of the Jedi, it wasnt confirmed that he actually moved it, in the last abortion it is 100% confirmed Yoda used lightning to set the jedi tree temple on fire, see a difference? Why the hate for the Last Jedi? Objectively it's the one movie in the franchise that brings the story full circle and completes the story arcs. That it also is the best movie in terms of gender equity and female empowerment is really just icing on the top of the cake. The characterization is just incredibly good. Objectively no
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 23, 2021 16:28:15 GMT
This isn't aimed at any particular post, but rather at the topic of physics in general: I would argue that Star Wars is fictional, so the rules of physics do not apply. If they would however, then at least apply them correctly. Newton's laws don't work when approaching the speed of light, because in Special Relativity mass is relativistic. This means, that something we assume constant -like mass- is in fact not. Therefore, in Special Relativity relativistic mass γ γ = 1/Square root of√(1 − v2/c2) If speed v approaches speed of light c, then the relativistic mass approaches infinite. So a spec of dust moving at speed of light would have the mass of the entire universe. Short version here: Mass, Energy, the Speed of LightLong version: Study Einstein's theories and Special Relativity [Disclaimer: Requires a curious mind] This is a general problem in Scifi, involving FTL flight and most franchises that I know approach it differently.
It is my understanding that FTL engines in the SW universe do not simply "accelerate" spacecraft towards and beyond c but rather transfer them into something called Hyperspace, which interacts with normal space-time but is still separate from it in terms of its physics. In this "plane" if you will, clearly, relativistic effects do not apply. Otherwise, you'd also run into trouble with time dilation and a whole slew of other issues.
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Post by Hier0phant on Apr 23, 2021 17:47:48 GMT
What makes pre retcon Holdo's manuever absurd (retcon is just as goofy) in regards to SW lore is that a ship massively decelerates when leaving hyperspace. The near instant drop from ftl speed should kill the momentum that's needed to cause the catastrophic destruction that was witnessed against the Supremacy and FO fleet. The issue isn't the application of irl science it's in the scene flatout contradicting basic lore that was established in the very first film.
Rian essentially made Star Wars' hyperdrive engines behave exactly like Star Trek's Warp Drive engines. What kills all arguments in favor of the pre-retcon Holdo's Manuever is that LucasFilm's storygroup noticed the inconsistency, and retconned the scene in the film's novelization (canon) by introducing a new function of the Raddus that was not present in any preexisting script draft for TLJ.
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Post by Hier0phant on Apr 23, 2021 17:57:46 GMT
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