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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 21:32:54 GMT
I think any reasonable person would say that when making a SEQUEL you kinda need to use plot threads that are set up & ready to go in the previous film. It's pretty basic & simple IMO they did.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 21:34:06 GMT
And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine. Just because it hadn’t been done doesn’t mean it’s not possible. I guess we can use that in Mass Effect, too. Maybe we can expect Kaidan to go flying through space. I mean, hey, no history of any other biotic doing it doesn't mean it can't be done. Point is, there's such a thing as lore.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 7, 2018 21:47:46 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 22:15:47 GMT
Just because it hadn’t been done doesn’t mean it’s not possible. I guess we can use that in Mass Effect, too. Maybe we can expect Kaidan to go flying through space. I mean, hey, no history of any other biotic doing it doesn't mean it can't be done. Point is, there's such a thing as lore. It’s not lore breaking.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 22:16:52 GMT
Funny they are. Like TLJ I still do.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 22:28:12 GMT
But here’s the rub. It was the same with the Emperor. We knew nothing about him till the prequels. Nobody griped then.Because he was much more convincing as a villain than Snoke ever was? And all of his plans made sense? And he wasn't stupidly killed in ESB? You mean killed like this in this awesome death scene, with all the fantastic foreshadowing from Kylo's and Rey's visions? You didn't like it? That's so SAD.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 22:37:05 GMT
1. How did Luke, Mace, Anakin, Yoda? All of them had a strong connection before they became Jedi. I don't disagree with you about a number of things, but do we really know how strong Mace and Yoda were prior to becoming Jedi? Since anyone older than a child was discarded by the Jedi Order, you'd have to assume Mace and Yoda entered the order as children. No way to know how powerful they really were as small children. Luke is another story. We saw no evidence that Luke had much of anything. Sure, Ben put the blast shield down and, after a few tries, he was able to bloack the lasers with the lightsaber, but I assume anyone who is Force-sensitive has that potential. Luke didn't come into his own until RotJ but Rey shows infinitely better skill than Luke ever did in ESB. Remember, Luke lost to Vader in ESB, and that was with Vader knowing full well he was facing off against his son. Again, I don't in any way dislike Rey. I really do like her and have no problem with her taking the lead. (Others think it's extreme feminism at work, but I don't. I loved, for example, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.) I just think her growth should have been a bit slower.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 22:42:06 GMT
I guess we can use that in Mass Effect, too. Maybe we can expect Kaidan to go flying through space. I mean, hey, no history of any other biotic doing it doesn't mean it can't be done. Point is, there's such a thing as lore. It’s not lore breaking. Can you please point out in lore, and I'll accept the no-longer-valid Expanded Universe, where this happened? If you allow something like this then anything goes at all. OK, I'm actually going to give up on this line of reason. I was thinking of SW: The Force Unleashed. Starkiller did things no one Force user was ever shown to do, like pull a star destroyer out of the sky. I hate when I realize I'm wrong.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 22:52:50 GMT
Because he was much more convincing as a villain than Snoke ever was? And all of his plans made sense? And he wasn't stupidly killed in ESB? You mean killed like this in this awesome death scene, with all the fantastic foreshadowing from Kylo's and Rey's visions? You didn't like it? That's so SAD. This is the second time you are uncivil. I do not like trolls.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 22:57:34 GMT
You mean killed like this in this awesome death scene, with all the fantastic foreshadowing from Kylo's and Rey's visions? You didn't like it? That's so SAD. This is the second time you are uncivil. I do not like trolls. He wasn’t uncivil.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 22:58:44 GMT
Can you please point out in lore, and I'll accept the no-longer-valid Expanded Universe, where this happened? If you allow something like this then anything goes at all. OK, I'm actually going to give up on this line of reason. I was thinking of SW: The Force Unleashed. Starkiller did things no one Force user was ever shown to do, like pull a star destroyer out of the sky. I hate when I realize I'm wrong. I was going to give that exact example.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 22:59:03 GMT
This is the second time you are uncivil. I do not like trolls. He wasn’t uncivil. That is your opinion, right? Not mine. It was personal. I don't take kindly to personal, especially from kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 23:02:14 GMT
This is the second time you are uncivil. I do not like trolls. He wasn’t uncivil. No, he was attempting to be a troll and it was obvious.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 23:12:24 GMT
This death scene, which perfectly conforms to the conflicting foreshadowing from Kylo's, Rey's, and Snoke's prophetic visions, is brilliant. People didn't like it? That's so SAD.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 23:14:52 GMT
This death scene, which perfectly conforms to the conflicting foreshadowing from Kylo's, Rey's, and Snoke's prophetic visions, is brilliant. People didn't like it? That's so SAD. Troll is obvious.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 23:18:08 GMT
This death scene, which perfectly conforms to the conflicting foreshadowing from Kylo's, Rey's, and Snoke's prophetic visions, is brilliant. People didn't like it? That's so SAD. You win! Congratulations!
A troll will be a troll and no amount of logic or common sense will turn him from that. I suppose it's indeed too much to ask to have a normal debate about a subject that implies opposing sides. It's exactly the kind of attitude that made me swear I'll not spend another dime on the SW universe, especially as it's coming from it's actual creators
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 23:31:24 GMT
I think any reasonable person would say that when making a SEQUEL you kinda need to use plot threads that are set up & ready to go in the previous film. It's pretty basic & simple IMO they did. Please, allow me to explain something to you. This point IS NOT a matter of opinion. Sorry. Something like "did the Leia-Force bubble part feel silly to you" or "was the throne room duel believable" are matters of opinion, as they require a certain amount of relative taste and subjectivity. One person might say yes, the duel was cool and very realistic, while another might say no, there was too much coincidental-perfect-timing-while-somehow-not-using-any-Force-powers. See? Open to interpretation. Not only did Ruin Johnson et. al admit to abandoning most of the plot threads from episode 7 for the sake of "clever subversion", any person with working eyes & ears can see that they were not picked up in ep. 8. All that is required is to watch the movie & think with your brain. Just to make it clear as crystal for you, I'll list said abandoned plot points here for you; 1. Ma-Rey's origin/lineage/training 2. How did the 1st Order recover from the loss of Starkiller base 3. Who/what/where/why are the Knight o' Ye Olde Ren? 4. Why exactly did the Graflex ligthsaber "call" to Ma-Rey? 5. If Snoke is no Sith Lord, WTF is his story? 6. Why did Luke run away, but leave a map? 7. Where did 3PO get his infamous red arm? 8. Surely there's more to Ben/Kylo than a bitter rivalry with his uncle... right? please say there is 9. Did Leia & Snoke date for a few months? 10. Are you kidding me?!
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 7, 2018 23:37:13 GMT
Ugh... remember the good old days when people liked Star Wars? Good times.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 23:41:39 GMT
Ugh... remember the good old days when people liked Star Wars? Good times. I honestly try to find anything else that made a huge franchise lose at least half of its fans. Nothing comes to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 23:41:54 GMT
Ugh... remember the good old days when people liked Star Wars? Good times. Sw fans don't like SW's. it's always been like dat.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 7, 2018 23:44:55 GMT
I think any reasonable person would say that when making a SEQUEL you kinda need to use plot threads that are set up & ready to go in the previous film. It's pretty basic & simple IMO they did. Indeed they did. While TLJ has many shortcomings, the notion that it doesn't pick up on the threads from TFA is fairly absurd. Sure, we didn't get a satisfactory answer to Rey's parents or Snoke's origin, but it did hit the main points - what happened to Luke, what happened at the academy, the new characters' development. The rest of the questions/issues people bring up, like the Knights of Ren (and offhand mention once that no one understood), it doesn't sound like it would please the critics even if they DID get an answer. Pretty sure this article has already been posted in the thread somewhere, but here it is again: io9.gizmodo.com/everything-rian-johnson-has-been-forced-to-explain-abou-1822598181
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 7, 2018 23:47:18 GMT
Ugh... remember the good old days when people liked Star Wars? Good times. Sw fans don't like SW's. it's always been like dat. I'm just gonna post memes and gifs from now on.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 7, 2018 23:47:21 GMT
Ugh... remember the good old days when people liked Star Wars? Good times. I honestly try to find anything else that made a huge franchise lose at least half of its fans. Nothing comes to mind. Metal Gear?
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Post by aglomeracja on Jul 7, 2018 23:47:42 GMT
True, but that's because he survived until the very end of the OT. Snoke died in TLJ and wasn't even a heavyweight like Palpatine. It's less that his past was unexplored and more than he wasn't as powerful as implied. Like a lot of things that began their development in TFA, they chose to discard it in TLJ. IOW, they chose not to build on what they had and that's a problem. Plus, Space Flying Leia. Never going to accept that as something that makes sense, especially since she had no training in the Force. I guess that's consistent with Uber-Powerful Rey, who also had no training. No, I'm sorry. Luke gave her three lessons. I'm sure that's all that was needed to take on all who cross her. I know it was said [somewhere] that she stole some old Jedi books, but I'm not buying it as actual training. I mean, I could read about all the baseball books in the world but still have no talent for it when I finally decided to pick up a bat. That takes time to get experienced. This movie could have been better. All that was needed was to follow the threads of TFW, which were sadly lacking. EDIT: I never hated TFA, even though it was almost a mirror of ANH. I enjoyed it for what it was. TLJ didn't just make a mockery of the OT, but also of TFA. TLJ could almost have been Episode 7 for all that it ignored from TFA. Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2018 23:47:52 GMT
Sw fans don't like SW's. it's always been like dat. I'm just gonna post memes and gifs from now on.
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