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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 7, 2018 19:21:26 GMT
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 19:23:12 GMT
It made a lot of sense. Unfortunately, flushed down the toilet and with nothing to replace it.
Where is Snoke? Who is Snoke? Why is Snoke?
But here’s the rub. It was the same with the Emperor. We knew nothing about him till the prequels. Nobody griped then. True, but that's because he survived until the very end of the OT. Snoke died in TLJ and wasn't even a heavyweight like Palpatine. It's less that his past was unexplored and more than he wasn't as powerful as implied. Like a lot of things that began their development in TFA, they chose to discard it in TLJ. IOW, they chose not to build on what they had and that's a problem. Plus, Space Flying Leia. Never going to accept that as something that makes sense, especially since she had no training in the Force. I guess that's consistent with Uber-Powerful Rey, who also had no training. No, I'm sorry. Luke gave her three lessons. I'm sure that's all that was needed to take on all who cross her. I know it was said [somewhere] that she stole some old Jedi books, but I'm not buying it as actual training. I mean, I could read about all the baseball books in the world but still have no talent for it when I finally decided to pick up a bat. That takes time to get experienced. This movie could have been better. All that was needed was to follow the threads of TFW, which were sadly lacking. EDIT: I never hated TFA, even though it was almost a mirror of ANH. I enjoyed it for what it was. TLJ didn't just make a mockery of the OT, but also of TFA. TLJ could almost have been Episode 7 for all that it ignored from TFA.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 19:26:13 GMT
In any case, Plagueis was outright mentioned and had a story told about him in RotS. So, the only questions now are; was Sheev bullshitting only to manipulate Skywalker? If not, will J.J. use this plot thread in ep. 9? I think the answer is probably No to both Of course it's "no". Midi-chlorians were a shitty idea and it's best left forgotten. How can you take an mystical force and turn it into basic science? If it were that simple, wouldn't people have been harvesting it to implant in others in order to have more Force-users? The answer is "hell, yes". Never mind that turning Anakin into a failed Jesus was just ridiculous.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 19:30:00 GMT
Where's Plagueis? Who’s Plagueis? Why is Plagueis? P.S. Edited for accuracy reasons The prequels had Palpatine tell a story about Plagueis having the ability to manipulate midi-chlorians and create life. There was an implication in there that Palpatine did that with Shmi and is, after a fashion, Anakin's father. Palpatine does not outright state Plagueis was his mentor but it's heavily implied. Then there's this: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but, if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." - Darth Sideous to Anakin. Pretty clear intention that Palpatine had every intention of becoming immortal and so would not need a contingency plan for the Empire to exist beyond his death. In any case, Plagueis was outright mentioned and had a story told about him in RotS. I know. It also happens that: is one of my favorite books. But read my later posts and you'll understand why I brought up Plagueis.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 19:30:59 GMT
I got you kids defending episode 8/Ruin Johnson a gift. Think of it as a peace offering. It's collectible I think
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 19:33:37 GMT
But here’s the rub. It was the same with the Emperor. We knew nothing about him till the prequels. Nobody griped then. True, but that's because he survived until the very end of the OT. Snoke died in TLJ and wasn't even a heavyweight like Palpatine. It's less that his past was unexplored and more than he wasn't as powerful as implied. Like a lot of things that began their development in TFA, they chose to discard it in TLJ. IOW, they chose not to build on what they had and that's a problem. Plus, Space Flying Leia. Never going to accept that as something that makes sense, especially since she had no training in the Force. I guess that's consistent with Uber-Powerful Rey, who also had no training. No, I'm sorry. Luke gave her three lessons. I'm sure that's all that was needed to take on all who cross her. I know it was said [somewhere] that she stole some old Jedi books, but I'm not buying it as actual training. I mean, I could read about all the baseball books in the world but still have no talent for it when I finally decided to pick up a bat. That takes time to get experienced. This movie could have been better. All that was needed was to follow the threads of TFW, which were sadly lacking. EDIT: I never hated TFA, even though it was almost a mirror of ANH. I enjoyed it for what it was. TLJ didn't just make a mockery of the OT, but also of TFA. TLJ could almost have been Episode 7 for all that it ignored from TFA. Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 19:34:21 GMT
I got you kids defending episode 8/Ruin Johnson a gift. Think of it as a peace offering. It's collectible I think I’d love it so....
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 19:38:18 GMT
is one of my favorite books. But read my later posts and you'll understand why I brought up Plagueis. I'll look for your posts but I'm cautious about using the novels. Aside from many having never read them, Disney threw pretty much the entire Expanded Universe out. Meanwhile, Ben Solo was a rip off of Jacen Solo. I think it's hard to explain to people who didn't watch ANH (then simply "Star Wars") at maybe 6 years old when it was new - and immediately fell in love with it - how bad it can be to watch all the other movies come out and just not be that good. We got a hero's journey in the OT. I guess it was the villain's journey in the prequels. I have no idea what we're seeing now.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 7, 2018 19:39:13 GMT
Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force. And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 7, 2018 19:43:06 GMT
Here's a vid for you all. Enjoy!:
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 19:47:48 GMT
Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force. And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine. Just because it hadn’t been done doesn’t mean it’s not possible.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 19:48:51 GMT
is one of my favorite books. But read my later posts and you'll understand why I brought up Plagueis. I'll look for your posts but I'm cautious about using the novels. Aside from many having never read them, Disney threw pretty much the entire Expanded Universe out. Meanwhile, Ben Solo was a rip off of Jacen Solo. I think it's hard to explain to people who didn't watch ANH (then simply "Star Wars") at maybe 6 years old when it was new - and immediately fell in love with it - how bad it can be to watch all the other movies come out and just not be that good. We got a hero's journey in the OT. I guess it was the villain's journey in the prequels. I have no idea what we're seeing now. The novel is part of the EU, it was actually finished in 2008 (though it appeared only in 2012) and makes some of the notions that the prequels use, including midi-chlorians more palatable. You also get a more detailed view on Sidious's rise to power.
I loved it.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 19:55:13 GMT
Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force. And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine. Actually, iirc, Darth Vader did it in a comic book. But he was a Sith Lord with tens of years of training.
P.S. Plus his suit...
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 7, 2018 19:57:33 GMT
The prequels had Palpatine tell a story about Plagueis having the ability to manipulate midi-chlorians and create life. There was an implication in there that Palpatine did that with Shmi and is, after a fashion, Anakin's father. Palpatine does not outright state Plagueis was his mentor but it's heavily implied. Then there's this: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but, if we work together, I know we can discover the secret." - Darth Sideous to Anakin. Pretty clear intention that Palpatine had every intention of becoming immortal and so would not need a contingency plan for the Empire to exist beyond his death. In any case, Plagueis was outright mentioned and had a story told about him in RotS. I know. It also happens that:
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 7, 2018 20:10:18 GMT
Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. Also the Leia thing, I understand the criticism but it still is something that is possible within the force. And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine. Okay, this is one of the weakest possible criticisms of TLJ. “Flying through Space” is nothing but telekinesis applied in a zero G environment. There’s no reason it should be much harder than lifting rocks, it isn’t a new power. And is it really so inconceivable that Luke taught his sister a thing or two even if she didn’t go in for full Jedi training? I have a lot of problems with this movie, and I think the scene looks silly, but it can’t be accused of being nonsensical.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 20:10:22 GMT
True, but that's because he survived until the very end of the OT. Snoke died in TLJ and wasn't even a heavyweight like Palpatine. It's less that his past was unexplored and more than he wasn't as powerful as implied. Like a lot of things that began their development in TFA, they chose to discard it in TLJ. IOW, they chose not to build on what they had and that's a problem. Plus, Space Flying Leia. Never going to accept that as something that makes sense, especially since she had no training in the Force. I guess that's consistent with Uber-Powerful Rey, who also had no training. No, I'm sorry. Luke gave her three lessons. I'm sure that's all that was needed to take on all who cross her. I know it was said [somewhere] that she stole some old Jedi books, but I'm not buying it as actual training. I mean, I could read about all the baseball books in the world but still have no talent for it when I finally decided to pick up a bat. That takes time to get experienced. This movie could have been better. All that was needed was to follow the threads of TFW, which were sadly lacking. EDIT: I never hated TFA, even though it was almost a mirror of ANH. I enjoyed it for what it was. TLJ didn't just make a mockery of the OT, but also of TFA. TLJ could almost have been Episode 7 for all that it ignored from TFA. Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. How convenient. Allow me to jog your memory: - How did Rey become so powerful? - How did Snoke become the "Great Leader" - Why did Luke want to kill an unarmed kid while he sleeps? - Why is Phasma such a total waste? - Why is Hux a dip-shit? - Why would there be a Star-map (a la KotOR)?? - Where is all the fuel for the spaceships? - Who gives a shit about horseys or gambling addicts? - Why would Benicio sign on for this? - How many times will Rey do things perfectly the 1st time? - How much worse can things get with Lucasfilm???
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Post by newnation on Jul 7, 2018 20:16:01 GMT
comicbook.com/starwars/2018/07/05/star-wars-boba-fett-spin-off-plot-details-bounty-hunter/I can dig this especially if it brings him back in some form after the OT. Dengar's chapter focused on him and his wife finding him along the edge of the sarlaac pit after he dropped a thermal detonator in it and nursing him back to health. I also remember Dave Filoni saying in a interview that a lot of EU characters will be coming back into canon. I still want to see Starkiller because Sam Witwer is just too good an actor to be just relegated to cameos and voice acting.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 20:17:38 GMT
I forgot a few:
- Does anyone REALLY need 3rd-wave Feminist tropes force-fed to them anymore? I think we get it - Is Ruin Johnson on the spectrum? - Are crystal foxes like rats but with bonus good luck? - Are there people who ACTUALLY think Rose's dialogue is cool or clever? - Should I go home & re-think my life?
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 20:24:08 GMT
Granted it’s been awhile since I watched TLJ but I don’t recall anything that was tossed out from TFA. How convenient. Allow me to jog your memory: - How did Rey become so powerful? - How did Snoke become the "Great Leader" - Why did Luke want to kill an unarmed kid while he sleeps? - Why is Phasma such a total waste? - Why is Hux a dip-shit? - Why would there be a Star-map (a la KotOR)?? - Where is all the fuel for the spaceships? - Who gives a shit about horseys or gambling addicts? - Why would Benicio sign on for this? - How many times will Rey do things perfectly the 1st time? - How much worse can things get with Lucasfilm??? 1. How did Luke, Mace, Anakin, Yoda? All of them had a strong connection before they became Jedi. 2. Irrelevant. Would it be interesting to find out? Yes not a plot hole however. 3 through the rest is all just stuff you don’t like. It’s not a plot hole or inconsistency.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 20:24:35 GMT
I forgot a few: - Does anyone REALLY need 3rd-wave Feminist tropes force-fed to them anymore? I think we get it - Is Ruin Johnson on the spectrum? - Are crystal foxes like rats but with bonus good luck? - Are there people who ACTUALLY think Rose's dialogue is cool or clever? - Should I go home & re-think my life? And that tells me all I need to know about you.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 20:31:43 GMT
I forgot a few: - Does anyone REALLY need 3rd-wave Feminist tropes force-fed to them anymore? I think we get it - Is Ruin Johnson on the spectrum? - Are crystal foxes like rats but with bonus good luck? - Are there people who ACTUALLY think Rose's dialogue is cool or clever? - Should I go home & re-think my life? And that tells me all I need to know about you.
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Post by newnation on Jul 7, 2018 20:45:06 GMT
How convenient. Allow me to jog your memory: - How did Rey become so powerful? - How did Snoke become the "Great Leader" - Why did Luke want to kill an unarmed kid while he sleeps? - Why is Phasma such a total waste? - Why is Hux a dip-shit? - Why would there be a Star-map (a la KotOR)?? - Where is all the fuel for the spaceships? - Who gives a shit about horseys or gambling addicts? - Why would Benicio sign on for this? - How many times will Rey do things perfectly the 1st time? - How much worse can things get with Lucasfilm??? 1. How did Luke, Mace, Anakin, Yoda? All of them had a strong connection before they became Jedi. 2. Irrelevant. Would it be interesting to find out? Yes not a plot hole however. 3 through the rest is all just stuff you don’t like. It’s not a plot hole or inconsistency. You do have to admit that some of the things like Hux, Snoke, Luke, and the casino scenes were weird.
In TFA Hux was someone who didn't fear Kylo but in TLJ he was basically his bitch. I could be remembering that part wrong because it has been a while since I've seen both movies.
Snoke is still unknown. We don't know what type of relationship he had with the Emperor or if he was just an opportunist.
I'm not going to touch Luke because that has been discussed to death.
I don't think Rian fleshed Rose out enough because the casino scene was supposed to flesh out her character more and show why she has the views the does. The entire scene was just out of place and would have probably been better if they found an entirely different way to find the codebreaker.
I also agree that Phasma was a waste. I would have had her do something to Finn and saved that last battle for episode 9.
As for Rey knowing how to do things, its not unheard of. Anakin and Luke were already great pilots before for their training.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful and would be dumb to believe that since we don't like the same thing that one of us is wrong.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 7, 2018 20:48:56 GMT
1. How did Luke, Mace, Anakin, Yoda? All of them had a strong connection before they became Jedi. 2. Irrelevant. Would it be interesting to find out? Yes not a plot hole however. 3 through the rest is all just stuff you don’t like. It’s not a plot hole or inconsistency. You do have to admit that some of the things like Hux, Snoke, Luke, and the casino scenes were weird.
In TFA Hux was someone who didn't fear Kylo but in TLJ he was basically his bitch. I could be remembering that part wrong because it has been a while since I've seen both movies.
Snoke is still unknown. We don't know what type of relationship he had with the Emperor or if he was just an opportunist.
I'm not going to touch Luke because that has been discussed to death.
I don't think Rian fleshed Rose out enough because the casino scene was supposed to flesh out her character more and show why she has the views the does. The entire scene was just out of place and would have probably been better if they found an entirely different way to find the codebreaker.
I also agree that Phasma was a waste. I would have had her do something to Finn and saved that last battle for episode 9.
As for Rey knowing how to do things, its not unheard of. Anakin and Luke were already great pilots before for their training.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful and would be dumb to believe that since we don't like the same thing that one of us is wrong.
I agree that some things could have been better. Doesn’t mean the film is as bad as some say.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 7, 2018 20:50:25 GMT
I think any reasonable person would say that when making a SEQUEL you kinda need to use plot threads that are set up & ready to go in the previous film. It's pretty basic & simple
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5,528
August 2016
docsteely
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
docsteely/HKyouma-san
docsteely
docsteely
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Post by docsteely on Jul 7, 2018 21:09:37 GMT
1. How did Luke, Mace, Anakin, Yoda? All of them had a strong connection before they became Jedi. 2. Irrelevant. Would it be interesting to find out? Yes not a plot hole however. 3 through the rest is all just stuff you don’t like. It’s not a plot hole or inconsistency. You do have to admit that some of the things like Hux, Snoke, Luke, and the casino scenes were weird.
In TFA Hux was someone who didn't fear Kylo but in TLJ he was basically his bitch. I could be remembering that part wrong because it has been a while since I've seen both movies.
Snoke is still unknown. We don't know what type of relationship he had with the Emperor or if he was just an opportunist.
I'm not going to touch Luke because that has been discussed to death.
I don't think Rian fleshed Rose out enough because the casino scene was supposed to flesh out her character more and show why she has the views the does. The entire scene was just out of place and would have probably been better if they found an entirely different way to find the codebreaker.
I also agree that Phasma was a waste. I would have had her do something to Finn and saved that last battle for episode 9.
As for Rey knowing how to do things, its not unheard of. Anakin and Luke were already great pilots before for their training.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful and would be dumb to believe that since we don't like the same thing that one of us is wrong.
You make a lot of good, valid points.
But Anakin flew in pod races (which is described as very unusual for a human) and Luke used to kill womprats from his T16 in Tatooine's canyons. They were not born great pilots, they had exceptional talent and worked hard to develop it.
Also you can't be disrespectful unless you make personal remarks and nothing in your post is personal.
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