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Post by mybudgee on Jul 8, 2018 1:37:11 GMT
Fascinating... you guys all say this thread is so awful & tough to watch. Yet you keep sticking your heads in here... It's like a train wreak, you can't look away It's why I haven't been posting, got nothing to say, so am staying out of it. Oh yes. Probably for the best
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Post by Pearl on Jul 8, 2018 2:58:44 GMT
christ this place is actually worse than the politics thread
how about that star wars? boy I sure do love lightsabers, and I finally watched last jedi now that it's on netflix, but I was way too drunk to remember any of it
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 8, 2018 3:02:28 GMT
Murderous fascist lego cute.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 8, 2018 3:44:43 GMT
OK, I'm actually going to give up on this line of reason. I was thinking of SW: The Force Unleashed. Starkiller did things no one Force user was ever shown to do, like pull a star destroyer out of the sky. That's not actually true. The EU actually has quite a few examples of Force Users that did something similarly impressive at a certain point in time. The main difference between all of those and the Mary-Poppins scene, is that all of them were highly trained Jedi or Sith.(while Leia didn't have any training ) True. I guess that was my original point. An untrained Force-user doing things no one else could. Starkiller was trained from boyhood by Vader. He was exceptionally powerful, though. More than anyone else we'd ever seen.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 8, 2018 3:53:33 GMT
That's not actually true. The EU actually has quite a few examples of Force Users that did something similarly impressive at a certain point in time. The main difference between all of those and the Mary-Poppins scene, is that all of them were highly trained Jedi or Sith.(while Leia didn't have any training ) True. I guess that was my original point. An untrained Force-user doing things no one else could. Starkiller was trained from boyhood by Vader. He was exceptionally powerful, though. More than anyone else we'd ever seen. I always wondered what would happen if Starkiller and Luke were to meet in the movies.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jul 8, 2018 3:58:27 GMT
Still winning.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 8, 2018 4:05:37 GMT
That's not actually true. The EU actually has quite a few examples of Force Users that did something similarly impressive at a certain point in time. The main difference between all of those and the Mary-Poppins scene, is that all of them were highly trained Jedi or Sith.(while Leia didn't have any training ) True. I guess that was my original point. An untrained Force-user doing things no one else could. Starkiller was trained from boyhood by Vader. He was exceptionally powerful, though. More than anyone else we'd ever seen. One explanation that is somewhat consistent with what we know is that, consider, Luke didn't know anything about and barely believed in the Force until Ben told him about it; whereas Rey appears to be a complete fangirl of the original trilogy story, and knows all the ins and outs of what a Force user and Jedi should be able to do. She already believes in what is possible and so has less of an issue actualizing her abilities. In the Wampa cave in ESB, I'm not sure Luke even knew he could do something like use the Force to pull the lightsaber to him. Up until then it had been this thing he felt that made him more attuned to his surroundings. The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 4:07:20 GMT
The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something. Or she simply might be a mary sue... that's always a possibility as well.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 8, 2018 4:12:43 GMT
True. I guess that was my original point. An untrained Force-user doing things no one else could. Starkiller was trained from boyhood by Vader. He was exceptionally powerful, though. More than anyone else we'd ever seen. One explanation that is somewhat consistent with what we know is that, consider, Luke didn't know anything about and barely believed in the Force until Ben told him about it; whereas Rey appears to be a complete fangirl of the original trilogy story, and knows all the ins and outs of what a Force user and Jedi should be able to do. She already believes in what is possible and so has less of an issue actualizing her abilities. In the Wampa cave in ESB, I'm not sure Luke even knew he could do something like use the Force to pull the lightsaber to him. Up until then it had been this thing he felt that made him more attuned to his surroundings. The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something. it adds a new spin on the Jedi training people as babies thinh.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jul 8, 2018 4:18:17 GMT
The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something. Or she simply might be a mary sue... that's always a possibility as well. Nah. She's the real chosen one who was foretold in the prophecy to bring balance to the force. The Force decided she was ready and manifested itself in her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 4:27:34 GMT
Or she simply might be a mary sue... that's always a possibility as well. Nah. She's the real chosen one who was foretold in the prophecy to bring balance to the force. The Force decided she was ready and manifested itself in her. That sounds like a Marry Sue still.
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Post by House Targaryen on Jul 8, 2018 4:32:10 GMT
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Post by Iakus on Jul 8, 2018 5:12:20 GMT
OK, I'm actually going to give up on this line of reason. I was thinking of SW: The Force Unleashed. Starkiller did things no one Force user was ever shown to do, like pull a star destroyer out of the sky. That's not actually true. The EU actually has quite a few examples of Force Users that did something similarly impressive at a certain point in time. The main difference between all of those and the Mary-Poppins scene, is that all of them were highly trained Jedi or Sith.(while Leia didn't have any training ) There was the time when the Jedi Academy on Yavin was attacked by an Imperial fleet. About thirty or so students pooled their powers into Dorsk 81, who Force Pushed seventeen Star destroyers out of the system. The strain was fatal to Dorsk 81 though.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 8, 2018 6:24:49 GMT
The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something. What @goldengail said is a distinct possibility and the thing about Rey that I didn't like. The only way I could be at all satisfied is if we discover that Rey actually was trained and for some reason has no recollection about it. We still don't know the identity of her parents so it isn't entirely impossible she was taught something. Either way, Episode 9 is the absolute last SW movie I have any intention of seeing. I don't think the sequels are as bad as the prequels but I still find them disappointing. Plus, the fact that Disney intends to milk SW until it's corpse is buried, I want no part of it.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 8, 2018 6:28:26 GMT
Or she simply might be a mary sue... that's always a possibility as well. Nah. She's the real chosen one who was foretold in the prophecy to bring balance to the force. The Force decided she was ready and manifested itself in her. Like Anakin, like Luke...probably in the Sequels 2 trilogy, we'll get one more of them, but this one will move planets the moment his/her abilities are awakened. Oh, and that one will stop the Starkiller Base beam in its tracks. Each trilogy has to trump the one before it. As I said in another post, Episode 9 is the end for me, and only that so I can see how it turns out.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 8, 2018 6:51:46 GMT
something different
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 8, 2018 14:02:51 GMT
Or she simply might be a mary sue... that's always a possibility as well. Nah. She's the real chosen one who was foretold in the prophecy to bring balance to the force. The Force decided she was ready and manifested itself in her. i c wut u did thar
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 8, 2018 14:43:51 GMT
The other explanation is that Rey's Force abilities show something else that we haven't yet seen. I've brought this up before, but the Force is clearly behaving differently with Rey. She describes it as this thing awakened in her that she cannot control; I don't think anyone else in the trilogy described the Force like that at all. Whereas others call these abilities lore-breaking (remember, she only started using her Force abilities a week ago), I just call it different - like she might be channeling something. What @goldengail said is a distinct possibility and the thing about Rey that I didn't like. The only way I could be at all satisfied is if we discover that Rey actually was trained and for some reason has no recollection about it. We still don't know the identity of her parents so it isn't entirely impossible she was taught something. Either way, Episode 9 is the absolute last SW movie I have any intention of seeing. I don't think the sequels are as bad as the prequels but I still find them disappointing. Plus, the fact that Disney intends to milk SW until it's corpse is buried, I want no part of it. The corporate types love OKing stories/scripts that mess with established characters just to get the audience interested in the endless franchise - see every comic books franchise ever EXCEPT Hitman. "Lots of speculation..." *Groan* Less of an issue for me in Star Wars, obviously, because I was mostly satisfied.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 8, 2018 14:47:50 GMT
And yet no one else could do that, no even Palpatine. Okay, this is one of the weakest possible criticisms of TLJ. “Flying through Space” is nothing but telekinesis applied in a zero G environment. There’s no reason it should be much harder than lifting rocks, it isn’t a new power. And is it really so inconceivable that Luke taught his sister a thing or two even if she didn’t go in for full Jedi training? I have a lot of problems with this movie, and I think the scene looks silly, but it can’t be accused of being nonsensical. The problem is not only with "flying through space" as such, the problem lies with being in vacuum with zero pressure and no air. That is what makes it a new power and also so difficult.
But indeed it can be argued that Luke taught his sister a thing or two, despite JJ saying after episode 7 that she got no Jedi training...
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2018 15:41:41 GMT
Okay, this is one of the weakest possible criticisms of TLJ. “Flying through Space” is nothing but telekinesis applied in a zero G environment. There’s no reason it should be much harder than lifting rocks, it isn’t a new power. And is it really so inconceivable that Luke taught his sister a thing or two even if she didn’t go in for full Jedi training? I have a lot of problems with this movie, and I think the scene looks silly, but it can’t be accused of being nonsensical. The problem is not only with "flying through space" as such, the problem lies with being in vacuum with zero pressure and no air. That is what makes it a new power and also so difficult.
But indeed it can be argued that Luke taught his sister a thing or two, despite JJ saying after episode 7 that she got no Jedi training...
The Force is very powerful. It’s possible it was pure survival instincts that kicked in her dormant powers.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 8, 2018 16:03:36 GMT
The problem is not only with "flying through space" as such, the problem lies with being in vacuum with zero pressure and no air. That is what makes it a new power and also so difficult.
But indeed it can be argued that Luke taught his sister a thing or two, despite JJ saying after episode 7 that she got no Jedi training...
The Force is very powerful. It’s possible it was pure survival instincts that kicked in her dormant powers. Its actually even MORE problematic that Palpatine, given his power and all of the Force jumping and twirling in RotS, didn't just stop himself from falling. Before the prequels, I remember wondering about Palpatine's inability to save himself from being tossed down the shaft in RotJ in the 90s. Yoda could lift an X-Wing, but this grand wizard guy can't lift himself out of a shaft? I think one of the explanations was that Vader Force pushed him, and that was part of why he was so exhausted afterwards. Well, that and the electrocution. Anyway, Rian's explanation was basically, yeah, not that difficult: io9.gizmodo.com/everything-rian-johnson-has-been-forced-to-explain-abou-1822598181
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2018 16:13:16 GMT
The Force is very powerful. It’s possible it was pure survival instincts that kicked in her dormant powers. Um actually it is. Especially with someone strong in the force. Rian’s explanation is good enough for me.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 8, 2018 16:14:32 GMT
The problem is not only with "flying through space" as such, the problem lies with being in vacuum with zero pressure and no air. That is what makes it a new power and also so difficult.
But indeed it can be argued that Luke taught his sister a thing or two, despite JJ saying after episode 7 that she got no Jedi training... The way I see the Mary-Poppins scene is this: 1. I don't think it's impossible for a strong (trained) Force user to survive the vacuum of space *in theory*. There are enough ways to use the Force to do similar things, there are ways to neutralize poison, slow down various biological processes, protect the user from the elements, etc. etc. 2. Assuming that such use of the Force is possible, it certainly shouldn't be something a novice would be able to pull off. If a "level one" Force ability is to levitate a single stone, level five is advanced Telekinesis, and level ten is Vader / Starkiller-level telekinesis, than surviving in space should be a similarly "high-level" ability, since it likely requires mastery of different aspects of the force, both control over biology and an impressive aptitude with Telekinesis. The main issue with the Leia scene (and with how Rey is better than everyone else with the Force because her first name is clearly Mary) is that the Force was reduced to something similar to Harry Potter's "accidental magic". (meaning that it is automatically triggered by strong emotions or desire) This is clearly contradictory to everything that was established so far about the Force. An untrained Force User might pull off something strange every once in a while, but usually simple subtle things, not a "level 15" ability. Actually there are plenty of examples, some in cannon and some not.
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Post by docsteely on Jul 8, 2018 16:14:37 GMT
The problem is not only with "flying through space" as such, the problem lies with being in vacuum with zero pressure and no air. That is what makes it a new power and also so difficult.
But indeed it can be argued that Luke taught his sister a thing or two, despite JJ saying after episode 7 that she got no Jedi training...
The Force is very powerful. It’s possible it was pure survival instincts that kicked in her dormant powers. Maybe. The only power I remember that resembles it is Breath Control from KOTOR 2. Which is not cannon anymore...
Also would that mean you don't need to learn the powers, they are already in you and you just need to wake them up? That is quite a leap of faith.
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