Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2018 17:21:15 GMT
Wait so 30 years have passed and Leia didn't receive any force training from Luke? Yeah. It's one of the biggest misteps of the old EU, and Disney Wars went and repeated it. SMH. Thought, to be fair to the EU, they corrected it when Leia got older. Eh, in the old EU, she did receive training, but it was more spotty than Luke's. Between her responsibilities to the New Republic and raising kids of her own, her training was sorta on-again, off-again. She does eventually become "fully trained" and gets her own lightsaber, but she was never a serious front-line fighter like Luke.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 9, 2018 17:33:09 GMT
And I have always been a Star Wars fan don’t assume you know me. I don't assume to know you, and I frankly don't want to know you. I do call you a casual fan. You can argue that all you want - it is a subjective statement. Rather than ever address complaints, you gloss over any problem with "not a problem for me." Good for you, you are allowed to feel that way. But, depending entirely on your feels as the basis of an argument is weak weak weak. That is not how I argue against TLJ. The Peanuts parody is a weak strawman.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 9, 2018 18:01:40 GMT
This cartoon is so simple and (e)motionless you can put almost anything instead of those lines.
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 9, 2018 18:01:42 GMT
I wouldn't call it a mishap. Luke wanted to train her on many occasions. She was just too busy either being Head of State or directly serving under one. High powered political career, family life, Jedi training- choose two. She chose the former. My three major complaints about the EU(and I say this as a BIG fan of it): 1. How chopped-up and confusing the canon was. This problem was unavoidable with how Lucas went about making his films. Entire book/comic series were written before Episode I was even a thing. This was why I was in favor of making the EU "Legends" and doing a reset. 2. Killing Anakin Solo. From a narrative point of view, I felt this was a misstep. His character arc in the NJO books was great. Combined with his role in Chewie's death, I felt Anakin Solo had more room to grow as a character, and his death, though it brought a sense of realism to the NJO era in that even the Skywalker/Solo clan wasn't immune, I felt he was the wrong casualty. IMO, Jaina should have been the one to go. I always felt she was the one with the poorest arc in that series, and the EU as a whole. Jacen's arc was the best of the Solo children. Really love his turn as Darth Caedus. 3. Leia not learning to use the force right after RotJ. For reasons already stated. Still, I love the Legends EU for all its flaws. Agreed 100% I would add the Darksaber superweapon, Luuke, the Clone Emperor Palps & Nom Anor's characterization to this list
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 9, 2018 18:12:44 GMT
As an in-universe explanation, I've never had an issue with this. It does make sense. My issue with Leia not being a Jedi is more of a meta complaint. I always felt that one of the first goals Luke would have is teaching Leia to use the Force, and Leia would embrace it, but in a different fasion than Luke. Before I got into the EU, I always envisioned her going on adventures with her brother and learning the lessons he was taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda. And instead of being a fighter like Luke, Leia would be a diplomat a'la Yoda. Not that she couldn't use a lightsaber, but more like she chose not to. Just my take on it. My three major complaints about the EU(and I say this as a BIG fan of it): 1. How chopped-up and confusing the canon was. This problem was unavoidable with how Lucas went about making his films. Entire book/comic series were written before Episode I was even a thing. This was why I was in favor of making the EU "Legends" and doing a reset. 2. Killing Anakin Solo. From a narrative point of view, I felt this was a misstep. His character arc in the NJO books was great. Combined with his role in Chewie's death, I felt Anakin Solo had more room to grow as a character, and his death, though it brought a sense of realism to the NJO era in that even the Skywalker/Solo clan wasn't immune, I felt he was the wrong casualty. IMO, Jaina should have been the one to go. I always felt she was the one with the poorest arc in that series, and the EU as a whole. Jacen's arc was the best of the Solo children. Really love his turn as Darth Caedus. 3. Leia not learning to use the force right after RotJ. For reasons already stated. Still, I love the Legends EU for all its flaws. I suppose it makes sense from a world standpoint, with the Jedi being as endangered as they are, that new ones with the highest potential be trained immediately. That being said, I think the direction took made sense for Leia as a character, so I'm OK with it. Otherwise the anachronisms of the canon are always overstated. Simply put, most didn't end up mattering that much. Did it really matter that the thrawn trilogy treated the clone wars as 30 years in the past as opposed to 20? Not really. Mountains on Coruscant? At best a minor edit in newer editions, like replacing Chimpface Palpatine in Empire. Sure there are cases where larger inconsistencies that span major part of works occurred. But most of those were dated for other reasons as well. Once the Holocron and all that got going, they did a good enough job keeping everything together. YMMV on the rest, but saying the EU had to go is an unforgivable travesty no matter how you slice it.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2018 18:22:58 GMT
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 9, 2018 18:27:38 GMT
Still, I love the Legends EU for all its flaws. YMMV on the rest, but saying the EU had to go is an unforgivable travesty no matter how you slice it. Don't forget; the Expanded Universe wasn't NECESSARILY obliterated because of it's merit or lack of quality content. It was done to make room for this incredible idiocy
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 9, 2018 18:33:24 GMT
You know it's true... saying "strawman" argument without actually providing an argument as to why it is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2018 18:55:54 GMT
You know it's true... saying "strawman" argument without actually providing an argument as to why it is. It's true in that it is axiomatic. You could substitute PoVs and have the same comic. So, it is a strawman in that you can dismiss any argument in such a fashion. That isn't an argument, it is a diversion. Or, if you will, a strawman. Thanks for telling us your truth though, Andy.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 9, 2018 19:05:39 GMT
You know it's true... saying "strawman" argument without actually providing an argument as to why it is. It's true in that it is axiomatic. You could substitute PoVs and have the same comic. So, it is a strawman in that you can dismiss any argument in such a fashion. That isn't an argument, it is a diversion. Or, if you will, a strawman. Thanks for telling us your truth though, Andy. My pleasure.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2018 19:09:18 GMT
You know it's true... saying "strawman" argument without actually providing an argument as to why it is. Because it's dragging out the old, fallacious argument that the reason people don't like Disney Wars is because it isn't exactly like the old EU. Completely ignoring pretty much every other valid complaint out there. Demolish the fallacious argument, and declare victory over the real ones. Ergo, strawman.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 19:50:08 GMT
YMMV on the rest, but saying the EU had to go is an unforgivable travesty no matter how you slice it. Don't forget; the Expanded Universe wasn't NECESSARILY obliterated because of it's merit or lack of quality content. It was done to make room for this incredible idiocy Please point out what is wrong with those scenes?
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 9, 2018 19:54:54 GMT
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 9, 2018 20:10:13 GMT
Good? Bad?
Maybe KK leaving is the announcement.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 20:49:23 GMT
Good? Bad? Maybe KK leaving is the announcement. That’s a rumor. Nothing official.
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 9, 2018 21:10:18 GMT
Good? Bad? Maybe KK leaving is the announcement. That’s a rumor. Nothing official. Its ALL rumor. Still can hope.
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Post by Nayawk on Jul 9, 2018 21:15:51 GMT
Good? Bad? Maybe KK leaving is the announcement. I can barely watch this guys videos, his voice is hard on the ears, he uses 15 words when 2 would do and he repeats himself constantly, turning what should be 1 min update into 7min ramble.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 9, 2018 21:27:58 GMT
Regarding the "Force Ghosts being able to interact with the material world being a plot hole" discussion, I disagree. Force Ghosts are a very new concept in the Star Wars universe with each generation expanding on it. The first known Jedi to do it is Qui-Gon and he couldn't even generate a force ghost but was more a ball of light and a disembodied voice. Obi-Wan is the first to be able to actually make a force ghost but that was the extent of his mastery of it. Yoda was next and we never see him appear until after the war with the Empire is over so really as far as we know he could always do those things. Those two learned from Qui-Gon(and Yoda may have learned from Obi-Wan too after he turned) and were able to go further with it, so it makes sense that Luke learning from them is also able to go further with it. Plus unlike Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, Yoda and Luke die in places that are very strong in the Force so that may also have an effect on them being able to do more than the others.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 9, 2018 21:29:52 GMT
Good? Bad? Maybe KK leaving is the announcement. One can hope that Bitch Kennedy is leaving.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 22:03:25 GMT
That’s a rumor. Nothing official. Its ALL rumor. Still can hope. Not me. I don’t have an issue with her.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2018 22:14:39 GMT
Good? Bad? Maybe KK leaving is the announcement. Might have been good if it a 1) true and 2) They hadn't already treated Luke like sh*t and discarded him.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 10, 2018 0:07:33 GMT
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Post by newnation on Jul 10, 2018 0:17:04 GMT
I would really like to see someone interacting with a force ghost for the first time and completely think that they're tripping balls. The Hoth cave scene doesn't count.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jul 10, 2018 0:49:42 GMT
I would really like to see someone interacting with a force ghost for the first time and completely think that they're tripping balls. The Hoth cave scene doesn't count.
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Post by newnation on Jul 10, 2018 1:01:19 GMT
I would really like to see someone interacting with a force ghost for the first time and completely think that they're tripping balls. The Hoth cave scene doesn't count. I don't really count that. Cade knew that he was there.
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