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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 9, 2018 0:05:57 GMT
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Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!
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Post by HK90210 on Jul 9, 2018 0:21:44 GMT
Wait so 30 years have passed and Leia didn't receive any force training from Luke? Yeah. It's one of the biggest misteps of the old EU, and Disney Wars went and repeated it. SMH. Thought, to be fair to the EU, they corrected it when Leia got older.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 0:35:50 GMT
Here's something of a radical take on the 'Flying Leia' scene from TLJ, disregarding how valid or not it is 'in universe' for a moment. With Carrie Fisher's passing Rian Johnson wanted to include as many of Carrie's scenes as he could in the final edit of TLJ which is why we got the 'Flying Leia' scene, rightly or wrongly. If this is true I don't know but I do recall reading it somewhere.
Now if Carrie were still with us and able to do Episode 9 I highly doubt that the 'Flying Leia' scene would have made into the final edit of TLJ.
Right back to lurking
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Post by Nayawk on Jul 9, 2018 0:56:18 GMT
It doesn't bother me either way if Leia was trained to use her force sensitivity. It seems likely that over the years Luke might have shown her things, but it is equally as likely she wasn't interested. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do it. (I fall in the 'space mary poppins looked very stupid but it was instinctual' camp)
It is most likely my category nazi-ness coming out but I can see why she wouldn't want to train to be a Jedi. She had existing responsibilities, husband/child, joining a celibate zero attachment space wizard cult possibly not high on her list of things to do.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 9, 2018 1:08:28 GMT
"celibate space wizard cult " That is going in the signature....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 1:19:57 GMT
celibate zero attachment space wizard cult. Actually the Jedi are not forced to be celibate, they are not allowed to form emotional attachments however. You can have sex with someone and not have an emotional attachment to that person. Shocking concept I know.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 9, 2018 1:37:21 GMT
celibate zero attachment space wizard cult. Actually the Jedi are not forced to be celibate, they are not allowed to form emotional attachments however. You can have sex with someone and not have an emotional attachment to that person. Shocking concept I know. Now you got me thinking of Kylo, trying to kill all of his attachments... "Let the past die. Kill it." That guy is a nut!
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 9, 2018 2:00:33 GMT
Mind you in the Aftermath novel Leia was only taught how to meditate by Luke, but until a tie-in comic or novel gives further details about Leia's training her force flying feat is fantastical even from an in universe pov due to Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Luke being unable to replicate it with similar levels of training. I’ll admit it was fantastical but not enough to claim it was a bad movie. Yeah it looked goofy, but it's the least of TLJ's problems. Like the sudden weaponization of hyperdrives which causes plotholes in all naval engagements, Rose's conflicting messages that clashes with the plot, Canto Bight existing only to push merchandise, the sheer stupidity on all sides in regards to the White Bronco in space chase, the flanderization of Hux's, Phasma's and Poe's characters, Leia being coma'd and Admiral Ackbar being off screened in order to promote a self insert wish fulfillment character, the poor choreography of Snoke's throne room fight, turbolasers arcing in space, inopportune humor like references to Finn being a janitor or Poe prank calling Hux, force ghosts being revealed to be capable of influencing the material realm, etc.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 9, 2018 2:25:37 GMT
Wait so 30 years have passed and Leia didn't receive any force training from Luke? Yeah. It's one of the biggest misteps of the old EU, and Disney Wars went and repeated it. SMH. Thought, to be fair to the EU, they corrected it when Leia got older. She was at the level of a jedi knight too, plus it just made sense for her to undergo training after Dark Empire, Vong, and the Killiks.
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Post by Nayawk on Jul 9, 2018 2:29:25 GMT
celibate zero attachment space wizard cult. Actually the Jedi are not forced to be celibate, they are not allowed to form emotional attachments however. You can have sex with someone and not have an emotional attachment to that person. Shocking concept I know. Bow chicka wow wow
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 9, 2018 2:45:37 GMT
An oldie but a favorite,
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Post by mybudgee on Jul 9, 2018 5:07:05 GMT
celibate zero attachment space wizard cult. Actually the Jedi are not forced to be celibate, they are not allowed to form emotional attachments however. You can have sex with someone and not have an emotional attachment to that personi.imgflip.com/1v529f.jpg" src="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/mM0QFogkzQgweRPSOWFE.png" alt="<img src="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/mM0QFogkzQgweRPSOWFE.png" alt=" " class="smile">" class="smile"]
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jul 9, 2018 5:41:00 GMT
Didn't get the reference... Slowpoke Rodriguez?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jul 9, 2018 7:52:11 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 12:56:59 GMT
I’ll admit it was fantastical but not enough to claim it was a bad movie. Yeah it looked goofy, but it's the least of TLJ's problems. Like the sudden weaponization of hyperdrives which causes plotholes in all naval engagements, Rose's conflicting messages that clashes with the plot, Canto Bight existing only to push merchandise, the sheer stupidity on all sides in regards to the White Bronco in space chase, the flanderization of Hux's, Phasma's and Poe's characters, Leia being coma'd and Admiral Ackbar being off screened in order to promote a self insert wish fulfillment character, the poor choreography of Snoke's throne room fight, turbolasers arcing in space, inopportune humor like references to Finn being a janitor or Poe prank calling Hux, force ghosts being revealed to be capable of influencing the material realm, etc. Most of those are things you don’t like but not plot holes.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2018 13:07:33 GMT
Yeah it looked goofy, but it's the least of TLJ's problems. Like the sudden weaponization of hyperdrives which causes plotholes in all naval engagements, Rose's conflicting messages that clashes with the plot, Canto Bight existing only to push merchandise, the sheer stupidity on all sides in regards to the White Bronco in space chase, the flanderization of Hux's, Phasma's and Poe's characters, Leia being coma'd and Admiral Ackbar being off screened in order to promote a self insert wish fulfillment character, the poor choreography of Snoke's throne room fight, turbolasers arcing in space, inopportune humor like references to Finn being a janitor or Poe prank calling Hux, force ghosts being revealed to be capable of influencing the material realm, etc. Most of those are things you don’t like but not plot holes. No. Do you understand the term? I don't think you do. From the Wiki: The hyperdrive situation is an enormous, reeking, plot hole. The whole series should fall into it. It makes zero sense. It goes against everything established. Force Ghost interaction with the living world? See above. You call yourself a fan. I call you a casual appropriator.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 9, 2018 13:30:51 GMT
Wait so 30 years have passed and Leia didn't receive any force training from Luke? Yeah. It's one of the biggest misteps of the old EU, and Disney Wars went and repeated it. SMH. Thought, to be fair to the EU, they corrected it when Leia got older. I wouldn't call it a mishap. Luke wanted to train her on many occasions. She was just too busy either being Head of State or directly serving under one. High powered political career, family life, Jedi training- choose two. She chose the former.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 13:47:32 GMT
Most of those are things you don’t like but not plot holes. No. Do you understand the term? I don't think you do. From the Wiki: The hyperdrive situation is an enormous, reeking, plot hole. The whole series should fall into it. It makes zero sense. It goes against everything established. Force Ghost interaction with the living world? See above. You call yourself a fan. I call you a casual appropriator. I’ve been a fan since I was five so don’t you dare to assume anything. And yes I do know what it means. For example Qui Gon Jinn is a huge plot hole but one I can overlook due to the problems of having Yoda there as they wanted the puppet. Force Ghost thing maybe same with the Hyperdrive. I just think you guys are reading too much into it. And I have always been a Star Wars fan don’t assume you know me.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 9, 2018 15:54:53 GMT
And I have always been a Star Wars fan don’t assume you know me. I don't assume to know you, and I frankly don't want to know you. I do call you a casual fan. You can argue that all you want - it is a subjective statement. Rather than ever address complaints, you gloss over any problem with "not a problem for me." Good for you, you are allowed to feel that way. But, depending entirely on your feels as the basis of an argument is weak weak weak. That is not how I argue against TLJ. The Peanuts parody is a weak strawman.
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Expletive: Damn it, master, I am an assassination droid... not a dictionary!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by HK90210 on Jul 9, 2018 16:17:31 GMT
Yeah. It's one of the biggest misteps of the old EU, and Disney Wars went and repeated it. SMH. Thought, to be fair to the EU, they corrected it when Leia got older. I wouldn't call it a mishap. Luke wanted to train her on many occasions. She was just too busy either being Head of State or directly serving under one. High powered political career, family life, Jedi training- choose two. She chose the former. As an in-universe explanation, I've never had an issue with this. It does make sense. My issue with Leia not being a Jedi is more of a meta complaint. I always felt that one of the first goals Luke would have is teaching Leia to use the Force, and Leia would embrace it, but in a different fasion than Luke. Before I got into the EU, I always envisioned her going on adventures with her brother and learning the lessons he was taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda. And instead of being a fighter like Luke, Leia would be a diplomat a'la Yoda. Not that she couldn't use a lightsaber, but more like she chose not to. Just my take on it. My three major complaints about the EU(and I say this as a BIG fan of it): 1. How chopped-up and confusing the canon was. This problem was unavoidable with how Lucas went about making his films. Entire book/comic series were written before Episode I was even a thing. This was why I was in favor of making the EU "Legends" and doing a reset. 2. Killing Anakin Solo. From a narrative point of view, I felt this was a misstep. His character arc in the NJO books was great. Combined with his role in Chewie's death, I felt Anakin Solo had more room to grow as a character, and his death, though it brought a sense of realism to the NJO era in that even the Skywalker/Solo clan wasn't immune, I felt he was the wrong casualty. IMO, Jaina should have been the one to go. I always felt she was the one with the poorest arc in that series, and the EU as a whole. Jacen's arc was the best of the Solo children. Really love his turn as Darth Caedus. 3. Leia not learning to use the force right after RotJ. For reasons already stated. Still, I love the Legends EU for all its flaws.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 9, 2018 16:40:06 GMT
Yeah it looked goofy, but it's the least of TLJ's problems. Like the sudden weaponization of hyperdrives which causes plotholes in all naval engagements, Rose's conflicting messages that clashes with the plot, Canto Bight existing only to push merchandise, the sheer stupidity on all sides in regards to the White Bronco in space chase, the flanderization of Hux's, Phasma's and Poe's characters, Leia being coma'd and Admiral Ackbar being off screened in order to promote a self insert wish fulfillment character, the poor choreography of Snoke's throne room fight, turbolasers arcing in space, inopportune humor like references to Finn being a janitor or Poe prank calling Hux, force ghosts being revealed to be capable of influencing the material realm, etc. Most of those are things you don’t like but not plot holes. Yes there are plotholes lIke Holdo's spontaneous easy to use weaponization of hyperdrives under extreme duress, and no worries about precise calculations from a computer either. Why didn't she abandon ship earlier and use the maneuver to cover the fleet's escape during the chaos? What makes her so special that no one before her for thousands of years sought to weaponize the tech? Why didn't the rebels launch a droid piloted X-Wing packing nukes through hyperspace and into the 1st Deathstar's main reactor? What is the point of constructing vessels or doomsday installations larger than a frigate if a starfighter converted into a missile can easily destroy them? About the White Bronco chase in space. The FO had an overwhelming numerical advantage in combination with their hyperspace tracker yet no one thought to pincer the Resistance fleet nevermind them increasing the volley of turbolasers fire beyond a potshot every other second. Also turbolasers arcing in deep space, why? Then there's force ghosts having the ability to manipulate the material realm yet Obi-Wan didn't interfere during the Wampa attack on Hoth, the duel on Bespin or make any attempt to save Luke from being fried on the 2nd Deathstar or stop Kylo's slaughter of Luke's other students. Those are plotholes.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 17:07:19 GMT
Most of those are things you don’t like but not plot holes. Yes there are plotholes lIke Holdo's spontaneous easy to use weaponization of hyperdrives under extreme duress, and no worries about precise calculations from a computer either. Why didn't she abandon ship earlier and use the maneuver to cover the fleet's escape during the chaos? What makes her so special that no one before her for thousands of years sought to weaponize the tech? Why didn't the rebels launch a droid piloted X-Wing packing nukes through hyperspace and ito the 1st Deathstar's main reactor? What is the point of constructing vessels or doomsday installations larger than a frigate if a starfighter converted into a missile can easily destroy them? About the White Bronco chase in space. The FO had an overwhelming numerical advantage in combination with their hyperspace tracker yet no one thought to pincer the Resistance fleet nevermind them increasing the volley of turbolasers fire beyond a potshot ever other second. Also turbolasers arcing in deep space, why? Then there's force ghosts having the ability to manipulate the material realm yet Obi-Wan didn't interfere during the Wampa attack on Hoth, the duel on Bespin or make any attempt to save Luke from being fried on the 2nd Deathstar or stop Kylo's slaughter of Luke's other students. Those are plotholes. I’ll give you the hyperdrive one. I can headcannon it to make it work for me and it doesn’t ruin the movie. The turbo lasers is just nit picking, the Force Ghost thing could be a plot hole or something that just hasn’t been done before. If they don’t expand on it then yes I’d agree. But none of those ruin my enjoyment.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jul 9, 2018 17:12:54 GMT
Yes there are plotholes lIke Holdo's spontaneous easy to use weaponization of hyperdrives under extreme duress, and no worries about precise calculations from a computer either. Why didn't she abandon ship earlier and use the maneuver to cover the fleet's escape during the chaos? What makes her so special that no one before her for thousands of years sought to weaponize the tech? Why didn't the rebels launch a droid piloted X-Wing packing nukes through hyperspace and ito the 1st Deathstar's main reactor? What is the point of constructing vessels or doomsday installations larger than a frigate if a starfighter converted into a missile can easily destroy them? About the White Bronco chase in space. The FO had an overwhelming numerical advantage in combination with their hyperspace tracker yet no one thought to pincer the Resistance fleet nevermind them increasing the volley of turbolasers fire beyond a potshot ever other second. Also turbolasers arcing in deep space, why? Then there's force ghosts having the ability to manipulate the material realm yet Obi-Wan didn't interfere during the Wampa attack on Hoth, the duel on Bespin or make any attempt to save Luke from being fried on the 2nd Deathstar or stop Kylo's slaughter of Luke's other students. Those are plotholes. I’ll give you the hyperdrive one. I can headcannon it to make it work for me and it doesn’t ruin the movie. The turbo lasers is just nit picking, the Force Ghost thing could be a plot hole or something that just hasn’t been done before. If they don’t expand on it then yes I’d agree. But none of those ruin my enjoyment. Turbolasers shouldn't arc in a zero gravity environment and it contradicts the displays in past films too. TLJ as a whole is too inconsistent.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 9, 2018 17:16:04 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 9, 2018 17:17:45 GMT
I’ll give you the hyperdrive one. I can headcannon it to make it work for me and it doesn’t ruin the movie. The turbo lasers is just nit picking, the Force Ghost thing could be a plot hole or something that just hasn’t been done before. If they don’t expand on it then yes I’d agree. But none of those ruin my enjoyment. Turbolasers shouldn't arc in a zero gravity environment and it contradicts the displays in past films too. TLJ as a whole is too inconsistent. No they shouldn’t. Likely done to make it look cooler. I’m a huge fan I’m just not that nit picky. If I was I’d gripe about the fact you shouldn’t hear the lasers or the explosions. I’ll admit there’s inconsistencies between this film and the old ones but I can still enjoy it.
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