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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2018 21:56:23 GMT
They don't seem to get it..... people aren't upset because Luke isn't some super warrior who can destroy armies with a flick of a wrist, they're upset that prior to Luke's stunt with Ben he pretty much abandoned Leia and the rest of resistance to their near destruction while sulked alone on an island and only came back when they were down to handful of soldiers. Regardless of what happened, one thing that remained consistent in Luke's character was that he was selfless. In A New Hope he eagerly rushed to save Leia despite not even knowing her. Now in the sequel he left his sister to fight alone against her son and the dark side because he's full of shame? And you don’t get that in 30 years he changed. But he changed due to what happened and he felt isolation was best. Thats a common excuse. People change in 30 years! But usually not that radically, I expect Luke to be bitter of what happen and will find a way to reserve it. But Luke just became a hermit and treated Rey badly.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 16, 2018 21:57:48 GMT
I do believe there is a reasonable way to hate something. Not harass an actress off social media, putting together silly "remake" petitions, calling for a boycott on social media (just don't go, calling it a boycott is petty and childish). Yes, it's not helping that Rian is calling out these groups and he should let it go at this point. Don't pretend your side is innocent in all this. "My" side? I didn't "harass" anyone. All I did was to post here about my perception of TLJ. Not that I particularly give a shit about the plight of a super-rich Hollywood actor. I mean, I know people that do much more unpleasant jobs for living and get paid a fraction of what she got paid. So she got some hate on social media. I think overall it's a good deal (I'd probably take it if I could). Not that I think that whoever did that wasn't an asshole, just that I find all the white-knighting so far over-the-top as to be utterly ridiculous. I don't really care what you consider "reasonable". I don't think that Rian Johnson et al. were particularly reasonable in their handling of a franchise I used to love (still love, though I do my best to pretend that the new movies didn't happen). So fuck them. Especially when the said media did nothing when the prequel actors and George Lucas got harassed.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 16, 2018 22:35:07 GMT
What will be the sequel trilogy's saving grace? Well, if it inspires Disney to make an Heir to the Empire alternate timeline... Oh hell, that would be a "take-my-money!" scenario.
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Post by Obadiah on Jul 16, 2018 22:40:55 GMT
And you don’t get that in 30 years he changed. But he changed due to what happened and he felt isolation was best. Thats a common excuse. People change in 30 years! But usually not that radically, I expect Luke to be bitter of what happen and will find a way to reserve it. But Luke just became a hermit and treated Rey badly. I don't know how "radical" it really is. Luke worked to build the New Republic for 20 years before deciding to become a hermit. Its not exactly a completely original story for a great warrior to decide to do something radical like leave, because he thinks his presence does more harm than good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 23:31:16 GMT
They don't seem to get it..... people aren't upset because Luke isn't some super warrior who can destroy armies with a flick of a wrist, they're upset that prior to Luke's stunt with Ben he pretty much abandoned Leia and the rest of resistance to their near destruction while sulked alone on an island and only came back when they were down to handful of soldiers. Regardless of what happened, one thing that remained consistent in Luke's character was that he was selfless. In A New Hope he eagerly rushed to save Leia despite not even knowing her. Now in the sequel he left his sister to fight alone against her son and the dark side because he's full of shame? And you don’t get that in 30 years he changed. But he changed due to what happened and he felt isolation was best. The part that we dö nöt like is the fact he decides tö kill a child, his nephew nö less, in his sleep. That is when he went fröm Luke tö Jake.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 16, 2018 23:36:48 GMT
"My" side? I didn't "harass" anyone. All I did was to post here about my perception of TLJ. Not that I particularly give a shit about the plight of a super-rich Hollywood actor. I mean, I know people that do much more unpleasant jobs for living and get paid a fraction of what she got paid. So she got some hate on social media. I think overall it's a good deal (I'd probably take it if I could). Not that I think that whoever did that wasn't an asshole, just that I find all the white-knighting so far over-the-top as to be utterly ridiculous. I don't really care what you consider "reasonable". I don't think that Rian Johnson et al. were particularly reasonable in their handling of a franchise I used to love (still love, though I do my best to pretend that the new movies didn't happen). So fuck them. Especially when the said media did nothing when the prequel actors and George Lucas got harassed. So because people got away with it in the past means people should be able to get away with it now?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 23:41:23 GMT
Especially when the said media did nothing when the prequel actors and George Lucas got harassed. So because people got away with it in the past means people should be able to get away with it now? Its nöt aböut getting away with it. Its aböut Lucas and öthers knew that when making any förm öf entertainment that there will be criticism. The öld Lucasfiilms never said that the fans were manbabies ör accused them öf being racist, sexist, ect.
They didnt play the victim card because they knew they werent.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 16, 2018 23:45:59 GMT
And you don’t get that in 30 years he changed. But he changed due to what happened and he felt isolation was best. The part that we dö nöt like is the fact he decides tö kill a child, his nephew nö less, in his sleep. That is when he went fröm Luke tö Jake. He decided not to that’s the point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 23:47:11 GMT
The part that we dö nöt like is the fact he decides tö kill a child, his nephew nö less, in his sleep. That is when he went fröm Luke tö Jake. He decided not to that’s the point. Jake decided nöt tö. Luke wöuldnt have even cönsidered it.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 16, 2018 23:48:04 GMT
They don't seem to get it..... people aren't upset because Luke isn't some super warrior who can destroy armies with a flick of a wrist, they're upset that prior to Luke's stunt with Ben he pretty much abandoned Leia and the rest of resistance to their near destruction while sulked alone on an island and only came back when they were down to handful of soldiers. Regardless of what happened, one thing that remained consistent in Luke's character was that he was selfless. In A New Hope he eagerly rushed to save Leia despite not even knowing her. Now in the sequel he left his sister to fight alone against her son and the dark side because he's full of shame? In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 23:54:57 GMT
They don't seem to get it..... people aren't upset because Luke isn't some super warrior who can destroy armies with a flick of a wrist, they're upset that prior to Luke's stunt with Ben he pretty much abandoned Leia and the rest of resistance to their near destruction while sulked alone on an island and only came back when they were down to handful of soldiers. Regardless of what happened, one thing that remained consistent in Luke's character was that he was selfless. In A New Hope he eagerly rushed to save Leia despite not even knowing her. Now in the sequel he left his sister to fight alone against her son and the dark side because he's full of shame? In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Jul 16, 2018 23:56:52 GMT
Especially when the said media did nothing when the prequel actors and George Lucas got harassed. So because people got away with it in the past means people should be able to get away with it now? No, where did he say that? the one who brought up "sides" and people being harassed was Andrew, which was frankly ridiculous to bring up in the first place because no one is responsible for random internet troll #3056 and what they do. The way I understood SmilesJa's post was that the media pretending to be outraged now rings hollow. Especially when said media didn't seem to give two flying shits when fans or actors of the prequels got harassed. I mean, good for the media if they're really starting to care so much now, as long as they stop painting ALL star wars fans who are disappointed with the new films as harassers/sexists/trolls. Anyway harassment is not OK and no one should get away with it. I think that's obvious to anyone who's not an ass.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2018 0:00:47 GMT
He decided not to that’s the point. Jake decided nöt tö. Luke wöuldnt have even cönsidered it. I hate this Jake bullshit. It’s Luke whether you like it or not.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 17, 2018 0:00:58 GMT
In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
He went off half trained and half cocked into an obvious trap to 'save his friends'. Very selfish, he was very lucky he didn't get himself killed or taken to the Emperor.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 17, 2018 0:02:12 GMT
In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
Negating his training and risking being captured or killed for emotional reasons is selfish yes. It’s also against the Jedi Code.
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Post by river82 on Jul 17, 2018 0:05:07 GMT
So because people got away with it in the past means people should be able to get away with it now? The way I understood SmilesJa's post was that the media pretending to be outraged now rings hollow. Especially when said media didn't seem to give two flying shits when fans or actors of the prequels got harassed. Back then the media hadn't figured out stories of "fan toxicity" was a good way to bring in readers. That was Trevorrow talking about some Jurassic World controversy but it's also relevant here, imo.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 17, 2018 0:06:54 GMT
In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
Yoda: "Stopped, they must be. On this, all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil." Luke: "And sacrifice Han and Leia?" Yoda: "If you honor what they fight for, yes." Luke is the only hope the galaxy has to defeat the Emperor and Darth Vader(there being another isn't mentioned until he leaves), but he is willing to risk everyone in order to rescue a few people simply because they are his friends. Don't get me wrong, his action is noble but it can also be seen as selfish in the sense of him not caring about the galaxy but caring about something that would affect him ie the loss of friends. It's a case of him doing the right thing, but not the smart thing.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jul 17, 2018 0:07:00 GMT
In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
If he was selfish, he'd told his uncle a year or so ago; FU and the farm, I'm going to join my friends. Or sneaked off with nary a word. He did not do that because he's not an irresponsible fellow. His uncle and aunt were parents to him, he's a filial 'son'. Knowing who his father was, they wouldn't have raised him to be wayward and egotistical.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 0:09:40 GMT
Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
Negating his training and risking being captured or killed for emotional reasons is selfish yes. It’s also against the Jedi Code. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish? What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
He went off half trained and half cocked into an obvious trap to 'save his friends'. Very selfish, he was very lucky he didn't get himself killed or taken to the Emperor. Did yöu guys get the definitiön öf selfish wröng? Was it stupid sure we cöuld argue that but the definitiön is: Cöncerned chiefly ör önly with öneself. Trying tö save yöur friends, nö matter höw stupid it may be, isnt selfish. Jake decided nöt tö. Luke wöuldnt have even cönsidered it. I hate this Jake bullshit. It’s Luke whether you like it or not. See this is the pröblem. I am using the öther mövies tö pöint öut that it was cömpletely öut öf Luke's character tö make that decisiön. That is why he is called Jake. And yöu have nöthing tö pöint tö that wöuld make the real Luke Skywalker decide tö make that chöice.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 17, 2018 0:13:06 GMT
In A New Hope he rushed off to save Leia because he was looking for about any excuse to get off the planet. He was also incredibly selfish when he rushed off to save Leia and Co on Bespin. He really only learned to stop being selfish in Jedi. The point of Luke in TLJ was he felt him, and the Jedi, were a negative influence on the galaxy, one of failure. Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
Rushing to Bespin was selfish because, as Yoda pointed out, he was more likely to lose and so leave the galaxy at the mercy of the Empire because Jedi would be entirely extinct. Remember, Leia was there, so we'd now have the only two potential Jedi dead. That's selfish.
In TLJ, he had turned into a hermit and turned his back on everyone and everything. Sure, at the least minute he shows up, but by then, as was pointed out, the Republic was all but destroyed. Had he participated sooner maybe things would have been different. Selfish as fuck as far as I can see.
As colfoley said, it was only in RotJ that he had become selfless, trying his best not to give in to the Dark Side - even though his friends were dying - and succeeding. God I hate using anything from the prequels, but had Luke failed in RotJ and continued to fight, he'd have become Vader 2.0.
Were the Jedi a negative influence on the galaxy? Without them, we had the Empire ruling all. When they were around, there was a Galactic Republic. When Jedi returned, we had the New Republic. Luke's an idiot if he thought the Jedi were a negative influence. He just got full of self-pity because things didn't go the way he wanted. Boo hoo. THAT is an example of moving toward the Dark Side. And what happened? First Order.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 0:20:30 GMT
Putting his life at risk tö save his friends is selfish?
What in the flying fuck are yöu talking aböut?
Rushing to Bespin was selfish because, as Yoda pointed out, he was more likely to lose and so leave the galaxy at the mercy of the Empire because Jedi would be entirely extinct. Remember, Leia was there, so we'd now have the only two potential Jedi dead. That's selfish.
In TLJ, he had turned into a hermit and turned his back on everyone and everything. Sure, at the least minute he shows up, but by then, as was pointed out, the Republic was all but destroyed. Had he participated sooner maybe things would have been different. Selfish as fuck as far as I can see.
As colfoley said, it was only in RotJ that he had become selfless, trying his best not to give in to the Dark Side - even though his friends were dying - and succeeding. God I hate using anything from the prequels, but had Luke failed in RotJ and continued to fight, he'd have become Vader 2.0.
Were the Jedi a negative influence on the galaxy? Without them, we had the Empire ruling all. When they were around, there was a Galactic Republic. When Jedi returned, we had the New Republic. Luke's an idiot if he thought the Jedi were a negative influence. He just got full of self-pity because things didn't go the way he wanted. Boo hoo. THAT is an example of moving toward the Dark Side. And what happened? First Order.
It is stupid and reckless but nöt selfish. Selfish means döing sömething önly för öne's self. Risking yöur life tö save peöple is the öppisate öf selfish. Sö göing tö Jaba's place tö save Han was selfish toö? He didnt finish his training yet. I cant believe we are even having this conversatiön.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 17, 2018 0:24:19 GMT
It is stupid and reckless but nöt selfish. Selfish means döing sömething önly för öne's self. Risking yöur life tö save peöple is the öppisate öf selfish. Sö göing tö Jaba's place tö save Han was selfish toö? He didnt finish his training yet. I cant believe we are even having this cönversatiön. If Luke rescues them, Luke feels better. Luke believes he can save his friends and the galaxy. He thinks way too highly of himself. It's all about Luke and what he wants rather than what will have the net positive effect on the galaxy. We can argue the semantics all day but in the end Luke did what Luke wanted and didn't consider the greater good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 0:26:28 GMT
It is stupid and reckless but nöt selfish. Selfish means döing sömething önly för öne's self. Risking yöur life tö save peöple is the öppisate öf selfish. Sö göing tö Jaba's place tö save Han was selfish toö? He didnt finish his training yet. I cant believe we are even having this cönversatiön. If Luke rescues them, Luke feels better. Luke believes he can save his friends and the galaxy. He thinks way too highly of himself. It's all about Luke and what he wants rather than what will have the net positive effect on the galaxy. We can argue the semantics all day but in the end Luke did what Luke wanted and didn't consider the greater good. Yes thats reckless nöt selfish.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 17, 2018 0:30:16 GMT
If Luke rescues them, Luke feels better. Luke believes he can save his friends and the galaxy. He thinks way too highly of himself. It's all about Luke and what he wants rather than what will have the net positive effect on the galaxy. We can argue the semantics all day but in the end Luke did what Luke wanted and didn't consider the greater good. Yes thats reckless nöt selfish. Okay, whatever. He's still thinking only of what he wants. Call it whatever you want.
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Post by river82 on Jul 17, 2018 0:30:52 GMT
]If Luke rescues them, Luke feels better.
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