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Post by Nayawk on Aug 18, 2018 0:47:59 GMT
Guess it depends on what article you read. The figures I have read are over all take 400 - 450 million, with a production and marketing cost of 350 million. I agree it under performed. I think we just disagree on the reasons for that.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 18, 2018 1:10:26 GMT
You keep thinking that, if you want. But any movie released after Episode VIII is also going to be a tough sell, too. Also, !Force-Ghost Luke and the least-threatening Star Wars villain are not the Skywalkers that are going to be big audience draws for this film. There's a lot of people that will want to see a Luke that no longer exists in the Disney Canon, or a Rey who is in some way connected to them. And for those reasons alone, enough people will stay home to affect Disney's bottom line. There's no question of that. It's just a question of how much of an effect they will have. I guarantee you that had Episode VIII not offended such a solid portion of the Star Wars fanbase, Solo WOULD have made money. Not as much as Rogue One, but enough to make it profitable. Trust me, Disney knows that. Also, let's define 'bomb', while we're at it. I'm not saying that IX will make less money than Solo. I'd be a fool to think that. But the bar is set at 1.3 million. That's what VIII made, and that's the MIINIMUM that Disney is going to expect for the film to be considered a success. Less than that might still make a profit, but diminishing returns is a sign of a flatlining franchise, and Disney will see anything less than 1.3 as a failure. To me, that would be a bomb. As far as I'm concerned, a film can make money, and still bomb the expectations set for it. And the final part of a Star Wars trilogy has some high expectations. My ballpark for the film? $700-$900 million. I don't think it'll break the $1 Billion mark. I think the backlash from VIII, and the failure of Solo have created a negative buzz around the franchise, and the fans who hate the film have seen the power they wield with their wallets. Don't underestimate them. I'm not saying that IX is definitely going to bomb, but to outright dismiss the possibility that it might is the definition of hubris, considering Solo's fate and the state of the franchise in general. It's only a tough sell to a vocal minority who whine about this not being "their" Star Wars. There ya go, always gotta get a dig in somewhere. We diss the movie, you diss us. It is personal to you. Why?
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Post by HK90210 on Aug 18, 2018 1:21:40 GMT
Guess it depends on what article you read. The figures I have read are over all take 400 - 450 million, with a production and marketing cost of 350 million. I agree it under performed. I think we just disagree on the reasons for that. Solo isn't breaking $400 million at the box office. That's just objective fact. It's currently in 32 170 theaters and is at $392,074,197, worldwide. It will not be making $8 million from 32 170 theaters. And as far as that gross goes, Disney doesn't get every dollar it makes from the box office. The theaters get their take. That take depends on the individual movie, but the 'sure things' like MCU films and (formerly)Star Wars, tend to get better contracts. So let's say that Disney get's 70% of the box office overall(more generous than the industry average of 60% from domestic theaters, and 20-40% from international theaters). That means that they made $274,451,937.9. Hereafter referred to as $275 million. According to your own estimate of the production and marketing costs, that's a $75 million loss. Barring Solo making back that $75 million through merchandising and TV/video sales, there is no way it's going to break even, much less make a profit. Solo lost money for Disney. This is as close to a fact that you can get without Disney sending out a press release to that effect. Edit: Read the number of theaters wrong. Mr. Stark, I can't read so good...
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 18, 2018 1:49:54 GMT
It's only a tough sell to a vocal minority who whine about this not being "their" Star Wars. There ya go, always gotta get a dig in somewhere. We diss the movie, you diss us. It is personal to you. Why? You're hatred isn't personal to me. Its when you and your ilk insult us for liking it. And I didn't diss anyone. A lot of whining has gone on about the new movies and its your side that started the #notmystarwars.
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Post by Nayawk on Aug 18, 2018 2:01:41 GMT
Guess it depends on what article you read. The figures I have read are over all take 400 - 450 million, with a production and marketing cost of 350 million. I agree it under performed. I think we just disagree on the reasons for that. Solo isn't breaking $400 million at the box office. That's just objective fact. It's currently in 32 170 theaters and is at $392,074,197, worldwide. It will not be making $8 million from 32 170 theaters. And as far as that gross goes, Disney doesn't get every dollar it makes from the box office. The theaters get their take. That take depends on the individual movie, but the 'sure things' like MCU films and (formerly)Star Wars, tend to get better contracts. So let's say that Disney get's 70% of the box office overall(more generous than the industry average of 60% from domestic theaters, and 20-40% from international theaters). That means that they made $274,451,937.9. Hereafter referred to as $275 million. According to your own estimate of the production and marketing costs, that's a $75 million loss. Barring Solo making back that $75 million through merchandising and TV/video sales, there is no way it's going to break even, much less make a profit. Solo lost money for Disney. This is as close to a fact that you can get without Disney sending out a press release to that effect. Edit: Read the number of theaters wrong. Mr. Stark, I can't read so good... Again, lots of places are reporting different figures but OK, Solo bombed. The original point of the argument was Ep IX not Solo anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 2:59:44 GMT
You keep thinking that, if you want. But any movie released after Episode VIII is also going to be a tough sell, too. Also, !Force-Ghost Luke and the least-threatening Star Wars villain are not the Skywalkers that are going to be big audience draws for this film. There's a lot of people that will want to see a Luke that no longer exists in the Disney Canon, or a Rey who is in some way connected to them. And for those reasons alone, enough people will stay home to affect Disney's bottom line. There's no question of that. It's just a question of how much of an effect they will have. I guarantee you that had Episode VIII not offended such a solid portion of the Star Wars fanbase, Solo WOULD have made money. Not as much as Rogue One, but enough to make it profitable. Trust me, Disney knows that. Also, let's define 'bomb', while we're at it. I'm not saying that IX will make less money than Solo. I'd be a fool to think that. But the bar is set at 1.3 million. That's what VIII made, and that's the MIINIMUM that Disney is going to expect for the film to be considered a success. Less than that might still make a profit, but diminishing returns is a sign of a flatlining franchise, and Disney will see anything less than 1.3 as a failure. To me, that would be a bomb. As far as I'm concerned, a film can make money, and still bomb the expectations set for it. And the final part of a Star Wars trilogy has some high expectations. My ballpark for the film? $700-$900 million. I don't think it'll break the $1 Billion mark. I think the backlash from VIII, and the failure of Solo have created a negative buzz around the franchise, and the fans who hate the film have seen the power they wield with their wallets. Don't underestimate them. I'm not saying that IX is definitely going to bomb, but to outright dismiss the possibility that it might is the definition of hubris, considering Solo's fate and the state of the franchise in general. It's only a tough sell to a vocal minority who whine about this not being "their" Star Wars. What proöf dö yöu have that it is a “minörity”? Beföre yöu ask me för my proöf that it isnt just a minörity, loök at höw many reviews bash it. Nöw I knöw yöull dismiss the internet reviews because...höw did yöu put it “the internet isnt real life”? which döesnt make sense tö me. Thöusands and thöusands öf user reviews bashing the mövie arent real tö yöu? WTF?¿?¿?¿?¿ ökay Just shöw me the proöf öf all the thöusands öf pösitive reviews fröm fans.
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Post by HK90210 on Aug 18, 2018 3:22:37 GMT
Solo isn't breaking $400 million at the box office. That's just objective fact. It's currently in 32 170 theaters and is at $392,074,197, worldwide. It will not be making $8 million from 32 170 theaters. And as far as that gross goes, Disney doesn't get every dollar it makes from the box office. The theaters get their take. That take depends on the individual movie, but the 'sure things' like MCU films and (formerly)Star Wars, tend to get better contracts. So let's say that Disney get's 70% of the box office overall(more generous than the industry average of 60% from domestic theaters, and 20-40% from international theaters). That means that they made $274,451,937.9. Hereafter referred to as $275 million. According to your own estimate of the production and marketing costs, that's a $75 million loss. Barring Solo making back that $75 million through merchandising and TV/video sales, there is no way it's going to break even, much less make a profit. Solo lost money for Disney. This is as close to a fact that you can get without Disney sending out a press release to that effect. Edit: Read the number of theaters wrong. Mr. Stark, I can't read so good... Again, lots of places are reporting different figures but OK, Solo bombed. The original point of the argument was Ep IX not Solo anyway. Yes, but your argument of "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" has been refuted. In order to continue debate, you'll have to support an argument beyond that. I'll tell you why *I* don't think IX will bomb(by your definition of bomb, not by mine). 1. IX has, by all accounts, not had nearly as bad production issues as Solo did. This will keep the budget down(VIII's budget was $317 million, so the budget will still be substantially more than Solo's, in all likelyhood), so the profit margin could be wider. 2. The numbered episodes in Star Wars will, of course, draw more crowds. I don't think anyone seriously thinks otherwise. 3. I do not think that Disney will field a marketing campaign for IX as lackluster as the one for Solo. They are not going to let that movie go practically unannounced to the world until a few months before release. 4. There still remains some hope among fans that VIII was not as bad as it seemed to be. I know 3 people IRL who still believe that Rey is actually Luke's kid, and Kylo Ren was lying about her parents. These people will still give IX a shot. Then they may finally pass beyond the Denial stage of their grief.
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Post by Nayawk on Aug 18, 2018 3:37:02 GMT
Again, lots of places are reporting different figures but OK, Solo bombed. The original point of the argument was Ep IX not Solo anyway. Yes, but your argument of "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" has been refuted. In order to continue debate, you'll have to support an argument beyond that. My argument was never if Solo didn't bomb then Ep IX won't bomb. That is firmly putting words in my mouth. My sole argument was that Ep IX won't bomb. Which you just said you agreed with. I think there is a discussion to be had for why Solo performed badly, which we no doubt disagree on, but the preceding few posts have all been about by just how much Solo failed and hads nothing to do with Ep IX.
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Post by HK90210 on Aug 18, 2018 4:10:45 GMT
Yes, but your argument of "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" has been refuted. In order to continue debate, you'll have to support an argument beyond that. My argument was never if Solo didn't bomb then Ep IX won't bomb. That is firmly putting words in my mouth. My sole argument was that Ep IX won't bomb. Which you just said you agreed with. I think there is a discussion to be had for why Solo performed badly, which we no doubt disagree on, but the preceding few posts have all been about by just how much Solo failed and hads nothing to do with Ep IX. Before we get into this argument over semantics(I'm enjoying this, btw. Feel free to disengage whenever you want)I would point out that you were the one to bring Solo into this, not me. Why is "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" an inaccurate summary of the above two quotes? Edit: Removed some snark.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 18, 2018 4:20:19 GMT
Thanks to my reading of the 'Time Displaced Sith' a thought did occur to me: What is the Force's ultimate objective and goal...if there is one? Granted what I am about to say is limited if there is a Dark Side and a Light Side but Snoke's line about 'darkness rises...and light to meet it', coupled with Kreia's observation that the Force seems to be a destructive entity merits...some consideration. Because Star Wars seems to be a history of an 'arms race' between two sides of the Force. As things go on there have generally been more powerful force entities constantly one upping what came before. Sure in its own way this is 'balance' but at the end of the day an escelation in arms between two groups does not tend to lead to balance.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 18, 2018 4:29:06 GMT
I like a little bit of detail in animation. I realise that less detail in art makes things more animation friendly, and that this is aimed for kids, but the art style is too simple for my liking. It does look distinctly... cheaper... than the previous ones. Das aesthetics you bigots! Criticizing the artistic integrity is beyond you plebs!
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Post by Nayawk on Aug 18, 2018 5:07:10 GMT
My argument was never if Solo didn't bomb then Ep IX won't bomb. That is firmly putting words in my mouth. My sole argument was that Ep IX won't bomb. Which you just said you agreed with. I think there is a discussion to be had for why Solo performed badly, which we no doubt disagree on, but the preceding few posts have all been about by just how much Solo failed and hads nothing to do with Ep IX. Before we get into this argument over semantics(I'm enjoying this, btw. Feel free to disengage whenever you want)I would point out that you were the one to bring Solo into this, not me. Why is "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" an inaccurate summary of the above two quotes? Edit: Removed some snark. I think at this moment we are down to arguing semantics I think that shows mostly in how you rewrote my statement. You used a comma, implying a link between both statements. In my original post I used a full stop, they are clearly two separate declarative statements not dependent on each other. If I had meant 'if A is C then B will be C' then I would have said that. To clarify; Statement One: I don't think Solo bombed, the figures I've read and the future secondary markets/sales leads me to believe that Solo will make money, not a lot of it by any mark, but enough to avoid my 'it bombed' benchmark. The term bomb for me really is reserved for films that screwed up, think Asura. The discussion around why Solo didn't perform is certainly one to have. The influence of 'fan dissatisfaction' will most likely have more weight in your mind than mine. I think it is a factor just not the biggest or only one. Solo had far more problems stacked against it than just TLJ blacklash. (I haven't seen it and don't really want to so can't argue to if it was a good movie) Statement Two: I don't think Ep IX will bomb. All the reasons Solo didn't do well are the reasons I think Ep IX will. We seem to agree on most of the reasons that is, not a prequel, end of a series etc.
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Post by HK90210 on Aug 18, 2018 5:28:58 GMT
Before we get into this argument over semantics(I'm enjoying this, btw. Feel free to disengage whenever you want)I would point out that you were the one to bring Solo into this, not me. Why is "Solo didn't bomb, Ep XI won't bomb either" an inaccurate summary of the above two quotes? Edit: Removed some snark. I think at this moment we are down to arguing semantics I think that shows mostly in how you rewrote my statement. You used a comma, implying a link between both statements. In my original post I used a full stop, they are clearly two separate declarative statements not dependent on each other. If I had meant 'if A is C then B will be C' then I would have said that. To clarify; Statement One: I don't think Solo bombed, the figures I've read and the future secondary markets/sales leads me to believe that Solo will make money, not a lot of it by any mark, but enough to avoid my 'it bombed' benchmark. The term bomb for me really is reserved for films that screwed up, think Asura. The discussion around why Solo didn't perform is certainly one to have. The influence of 'fan dissatisfaction' will most likely have more weight in your mind than mine. I think it is a factor just not the biggest or only one. Solo had far more problems stacked against it than just TLJ blacklash. (I haven't seen it and don't really want to so can't argue to if it was a good movie) Statement Two: I don't think Ep IX will bomb. All the reasons Solo didn't do well are the reasons I think Ep IX will. We seem to agree on most of the reasons that is, not a prequel, end of a series etc.
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Post by river82 on Aug 18, 2018 5:48:09 GMT
Solo was clearly a movie aimed at the hardcore part of the fanbase (they're targeting everyone but Solo was supposed to be something the hardcore crowd got behind). IMO there's two reasons Solo failed.
1) Disney doesn't get the hardcore fanbase. Evidenced when they cancelled Clone Wars, and evidenced again when they greenlit Solo and not Obi-Wan.
2) Disney has lost a fair portion of the hardcore fanbase.
The idea of "franchise fatigue" is ridiculous and I'm not even going to deal with it. Episode 9 won't bomb, but I predict it will be break trend with previous Star Wars trilogies. That is, usually the first star wars gets the biggest box office, there's a significant dip for number 2, and number 3 will rebound and settle somewhere between the two. I can't see audiences going back for 9, I think it will rake in around a billion. Still good, but I think they've shed some fans.
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Post by mybudgee on Aug 18, 2018 5:50:12 GMT
I firmly believe we will hear nothing about any future Star Wars movies until Episode IX releases. Disney is going to wait and see how that film is received, and act accordingly. If it bombs, Star Wars may be getting an early reset. If it doesn't bomb, we'll get more of the same( ). This post makes my stomach turn, my eyes water & my mind reel. However, I cannot deny the dead-on accuracy and dry wit it contains. Probably will be true What the fuck happened? How are we trapped in this autistic- juvenile nightmare ?!?
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 18, 2018 8:05:58 GMT
What? Who doesn't want to read about how Harry and Hermione's kid becomes a dark wizard and threatens the whole wizard community? Heck, throw in the ghost of Voldemort to be his master. Or even better, make that child a Horcrux! That way, in order to deal with Voldemort, they have to kill their own kid! The pathos would make America gr--I mean, make this movie great!
[snip] You wanted this That's pretty funny. Hope you noticed I actually got the name of Harry's girlfriend wrong. In any case, I was putting out what I thought a sequel might end up looking like. I'm sure you didn't miss the parallels with the current SW movies.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 18, 2018 8:17:16 GMT
I know for my money that if I see even a hint of CGI Leia I'm out the door. Tarkin was hard enough, though at least it was brief, but I can't deal with CGI replacing an actual human. Kill her off-screen, if necessary, but don't have her in Ep. IX. I'm already going into disgruntled so I don't need much to send me over the edge.
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Post by river82 on Aug 18, 2018 9:51:55 GMT
I know for my money that if I see even a hint of CGI Leia I'm out the door. Tarkin was hard enough, though at least it was brief, but I can't deal with CGI replacing an actual human. Kill her off-screen, if necessary, but don't have her in Ep. IX. I'm already going into disgruntled so I don't need much to send me over the edge. They are using unused footage of Leia from episode 7 and episode 8 for Leia's scenes in episode 9 ... whatever they may be.
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Post by docsteely on Aug 18, 2018 15:04:51 GMT
I firmly believe we will hear nothing about any future Star Wars movies until Episode IX releases. Disney is going to wait and see how that film is received, and act accordingly. If it bombs, Star Wars may be getting an early reset. If it doesn't bomb, we'll get more of the same( ). This post makes my stomach turn, my eyes water & my mind reel. However, I cannot deny the dead-on accuracy and dry wit it contains. Probably will be true What the fuck happened? How are we trapped in this autistic- juvenile nightmare ?!? The answer to your spoiler is outside the scope of this thread.
Click to show Just google "Yuri Bezmenov".
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 18, 2018 16:34:28 GMT
There ya go, always gotta get a dig in somewhere. We diss the movie, you diss us. It is personal to you. Why? You're hatred isn't personal to me. Its when you and your ilk insult us for liking it. And I didn't diss anyone. A lot of whining has gone on about the new movies and its your side that started the #notmystarwars. Ok, let's break this down. "you and your ilk". Ilk by itself just means group. However, it is almost always used pejoratively, never in the positive. Personal attack. "I didn't diss anyone". Wut? Every single time you argue, you get personal. See above. "A lot of whining has gone on about the new movies" - Personal attack. "its your side that started #notmystarwars" - so? It takes us a minute to insult you for liking it. We attack the movies first with legitimate literary and cinematic criticism, and when we are met with unfounded defense based on "because I like it" and a flippant "get over it, get with the times", some of us (definitely myself included) get frustrated and start being grandstanding dicks. Guilty as charged.
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Post by Obadiah on Aug 18, 2018 16:51:37 GMT
Anyone ever wonder what Yoda's nails/claws are made of? They scratched the veneer of that Senate pod pretty easily when he fell after the duel with Palpatine. Unrelated random thought - somewhere some kid has only seen The Clone Wars animated series, is a total fan of heroic Anakin Skywalker (has the video game, action figures, etc), and is in for a rude shock when his buddies start telling him about Revenge of the Sith.
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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Sept 26, 2016 13:29:55 GMT
19,064
Arijon van Goyen
10,446
August 2016
kaiserarian
17300
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 18, 2018 19:15:39 GMT
And ranting time! also the thumbnail of his another video was very good DISNEY IT'S TIME TO STAHP!
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Dark Helmet
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9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
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September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by mybudgee on Aug 18, 2018 19:48:22 GMT
Anyone ever wonder what Yoda's nails/claws are made of? They scratched the veneer of that Senate pod pretty easily when he fell after the duel with Palpatine. Unrelated random thought - somewhere some kid has only seen The Clone Wars animated series, is a total fan of heroic Anakin Skywalker (has the video game, action figures, etc), and is in for a rude shock when his buddies start telling him about Revenge of the Sith.
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inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by mybudgee on Aug 18, 2018 19:51:36 GMT
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8885
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Sept 24, 2024 1:23:38 GMT
7,322
river82
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July 2017
river82
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Post by river82 on Aug 18, 2018 21:08:30 GMT
Disney just released the first trailer for “Resistance,” and visually it’s stunning. source: huffpost
What the fuck? It's shit like this that makes people suspicious of journalists' motives. In what way is Resistance "visually stunning"? ... Oh wait, he didn't elaborate. How very convenient.
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